Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

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Goody67
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Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Goody67 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 am



English subtitles for those who don't understand German.

What do you think of Rhonhof's conclusions?

Has anyone read Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's book The War That Had Many Fathers?

A large amount of the book is available to read via Google Books.

I think in the book he wrote quite a few things that are questionable.

A few examples:

On p. 467 he cited the 76,000 figure of Germans as leaving Poland to go to Germany. He cited a German newspaper in August 1939. The Nazis were asked by the British and the Polish to show the alleged figure of Germans and the alleged camps, no proof was ever given.

On p. 613 he wrote that Ribbentrop claimed that the Poles were the ones who were causing all the trouble (most prominent Nazis made that claim over and over again), but he cited the Foreign Office reported that 200 ethnic Germans had been murdered in Poland. No source was cited.

On pp. 666-667 he claimed that Hitler only thought of Lebensraum as annexing Austria and Czechoslovakia. This is not true. After he came to power in 1933, he told his generals to plan for the Germanisation of the East. Even before the invasion of Poland, he had invaded non-German territory by invading the rest of Czechoslovakia in 1939. So much for not wanting anymore Czechs!

Is Rhonhof any different from Walendy? Both dispute the responsibility of Germany for WW2. One difference between the two is that Rhonhof is not a Holocaust denier, Walendy is a neo-Nazi and Holocaust denier.

Oh, and at least Rhonhof is honest, he has admitted that his work is not one of an academic historian.

The German Wikipedia article of Rhonhof states:
In the appendix of the 609-seitigen book 178 sources and references are indicated. Among them are various historians who are considered to be revisionist and right-wing extremists (such as Gerhard Baumfalk, Hans Bernhardt, Friedrich Grimm , David L. Hoggan , Erich Kern , Paul Rassinier , Jacques Benoist-Méchin , Anneliese von Ribbentrop , Heinrich Schulze). Dirschau, a pseudonym for Franz Kurowski ). In addition, there are controversial historians who represent the preventive war thesis (inter alia, Stefan Scheil , Werner Maser andErnst Topitsch ), and journalists from the right-wing conservative milieu (such as Franz Uhle-Wettler , Heinz Nawratil , Heinz Magenheimer , Dirk Bavendamm ).

On the other hand, a confrontation with the international history of research does not take place. Instead, he builds his argument on a selective examination of previously published series of files on the foreign policy of the belligerent states. In some cases, unprinted sources are used. [12] A research on the used by Schultze-Rhonhof sources resulted in a sample to the falsification of his statement, between "1933 to 1938 would be 557,000 Jews from Poland fled to Germany," he pointed at blank statements of a former Nazi spokesman primary reference would have. These were taken over by him previously unaudited elsewhere. [13]
12. Vgl. Dirk Mellies: Von Scharlatanen und Geschichtsrevisionisten. In: Luise Güth u. a. (Hrsg.): Wo bleibt die Aufklärung? Aufklärerische Diskurse in der Postmoderne. Franz Steiner Verlag, Stuttgart 2013 (= Historische Mitteilungen – Beihefte Bd. 84), ISBN 978-3-515-10423-4, S. 241–253.

13. Es bleibt dann am Ende eine Naziquelle!

So yeah, it appears to be just another revisionist book with dubious sources.
Last edited by Goody67 on Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:31 pm

I never read it though it was suggested to me when I used to post at FG’s blog.

Very telling on those sources....won’t be picking it up anytime soon.

:D
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Goody67 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:31 pm
I never read it though it was suggested to me when I used to post at FG’s blog.

Very telling on those sources....won’t be picking it up anytime soon.

:D
Similar to Mattogno's works, the book was written in a more academic way, but when the sources are checked the whole thing falls apart.

Revisionists who try and downplay how much Germany was to blame for WW2, deliberately cherry pick evidence, minimise what the Nazis actually did before the start of WW2 and think that Hitler's offers to countries like Poland were genuine.

Germans themselves were not happy when Hitler invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia. So much for only wanting ethnically German lands (Austria, Sudetenland, etc) and not wanting the Czechs. When Hitler invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia, he showed the world that his word could not be trusted.

Only an absolute moron would think that the Poles should have believed that his offers were genuine - how long would it have been before he wanted more of Poland? The Nazis hated the Soviets so much that they signed a pact with them to divide Poland. :shock:

Revisionists are completely ignorant as to why Gdańsk (Danzig) was predominantly ethnically German. They ignore the fact that it was originally Polish.
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 pm

David Hoggan is a dead giveaway on the unreliability of this work.

There’s a denier named John Wear (of Wear’s War fame) who likes to use Hoggan as a source.

John has a blog that he banned me from. I don’t know why, I really am a delightful fellow.

:D
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Goody67 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:33 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 pm
David Hoggan is a dead giveaway on the unreliability of this work.

There’s a denier named John Wear (of Wear’s War fame) who likes to use Hoggan as a source.

John has a blog that he banned me from. I don’t know why, I really am a delightful fellow.

:D
Have you seen the price of Hoggan’s book on Amazon? It’s a load of {!#%@}, yet sellers still advertise it on sale for over £100.

I remember reading on the CODOH forum people arguing that the German version is better than the English version.

That’s nothing new. Deniers love to claim they all for freedom of speech and a genuine debate. Yet, when one expresses criticism of Holocaust denial and so-called revisionism then he or she is considered to be a Jew lover, etc, and often restricted from posting and regularly trolled on whatever forum.
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:52 pm

I’m surprised there aren’t PDF’s of Hoggan’s works floating around.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:24 am

Found this one:
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/pdf_books/ ... %20war.pdf

Found that here:
https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2016 ... /#comments

Ah, youth. Back when the world was young and Trump wasn’t president.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:26 am

And here:
https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-ek1oIn4 ... 9_djvu.txt

Apparently Noontide Press published it without his permission.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Aaron Richards » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:50 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 pm
David Hoggan is a dead giveaway on the unreliability of this work.
Ahh dangit, speaking of mental images this kid keeps getting in the way. (David Hogg, for those out of the loop) :lol:

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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:56 am

Aaron Richards wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:50 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 pm
David Hoggan is a dead giveaway on the unreliability of this work.
Ahh dangit, speaking of mental images this kid keeps getting in the way. (David Hogg, for those out of the loop) :lol:

Image
Hogg is speaking at our local Holocaust museum in a conversation with city community leaders. I can't go due to previous commitments.
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:14 am

Aaron Richards wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:50 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:40 pm
David Hoggan is a dead giveaway on the unreliability of this work.
Ahh dangit, speaking of mental images this kid keeps getting in the way. (David Hogg, for those out of the loop) :lol:

Image

:)

I rather like this kid.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Goody67 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:33 am

A couple more examples of Rhonhof's strange choice of words:
Hitler's behavior towards Poland from 1933 to 1939 represents a reversal of the German foreign policy toward the East. The governments before 1933 had constantly called for change of Germany' eastern borders at the expense of Poland.
p. 510

The Nazis' foreign policy towards the East was not a reversal of previous governments, but an even more barbaric and genocidal policy. The Nazis aimed not only to replace the Slavs and other non-Germanic peoples in the East, but to expel, enslave and exterminate those people.
Finally, Hitler's forces Poland to give what it did not want to negotiate for a year. Hitler wants Danzig or war, and Poland chooses war.
p. 522

So Rhonhof thinks that because the Poles refused to accept Hitler's offers (demands) they were to blame for the start of the war.
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Aaron Richards » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:01 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:33 am
Finally, Hitler's forces Poland to give what it did not want to negotiate for a year. Hitler wants Danzig or war, and Poland chooses war.
p. 522

So Rhonhof thinks that because the Poles refused to accept Hitler's offers (demands) they were to blame for the start of the war.
Yeah it's always funny when a nation who forces a choice on someone "X or war" is not seen as the aggressor. Funny types, these revisionists.
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:14 pm

That's how crimes works, though. If a dude with a pistol points his gun at me and demands my wallet or he'll shoot, pretty much everyone would agree that I am to blame for the situation.
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Re: Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof's The War That Had Many Fathers

Post by Goody67 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:53 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:01 pm
Yeah it's always funny when a nation who forces a choice on someone "X or war" is not seen as the aggressor. Funny types, these revisionists.
This reminds me of zionist-occupation and his posts about Czechoslovakia.

He claimed that Hacha was never threatened during his meeting with Hitler. Ignoring the evidence that Hitler made a military thread at the start of the meeting - make sure no Czechs resist or military force would be used. And, Goering made the threat of bombing Prague if communication with the government could not be reached before the time of the invasion. Even Schultze-Rhonhof mentioned Hitler's threat on p. 231.

He claimed that Hacha had always wanted to sign over Czechoslovakia to Germany. :roll: His evidence are the words of Goering and Ribbentrop at the Nuremberg Trials:
Goering wrote:According to him Dr. Hacha had from the first been prepared to sign everything but had said that constitutionally he could not do so without reference first to Prague. After considerable difficulty telephonic communication with Prague was obtained and the Czech Government had agreed while adding that they could not guarantee that one Czech battalion at least would not fire on the German troops. It was, he said, only at that stage that he had warned Dr. Hacha that, if German lives were lost, he would bombard Prague.
Ribbentrop wrote:During these months I tried repeatedly to maintain good German relations with Prague. In particular I spoke frequently with Chvalkovsky, the Czechoslovakian Foreign Minister. In the middle of March, Chvalkovsky, the Czechoslovakian Foreign Minister, turned to our German representative in Prague to find out whether Hitler would give Hacha the opportunity of a personal interview. I reported this to the Fuehrer and the Fuehrer agreed to receive Hacha; however, he told me that he wished to deal with this matter personally. To that effect I had an exchange of telegrams with Prague: A reserved attitude should be taken in Prague but Hacha should be told that the Fuehrer would receive him.

At this point I should like to mention briefly that the Foreign Office and I myself did not know anything at this date of impending military events. We learned about these things only shortly before they happened. Before the arrival of Hacha I asked the Fuehrer whether a treaty was to be prepared. The Fuehrer answered, as I recall distinctly, that he had the intention of going far beyond that. After the arrival of Hacha in Berlin I visited him at once and he told me he wanted to place the fate of the Czech State in the Fuehrer's hands. I reported this to the Fuehrer and the Fuehrer instructed me to draft an agreement. The draft was submitted to him and corrected later on, as I remember. Hacha was then received by the Fuehrer and the results of this conference, as far as I know, are already known here and have been submitted in documentary form so that I do not need to go into it.
Both were lying because Hacha and Chvalkovsky had been refusing to sign the document for hours and the only reason Hacha eventually gave in was because he didn't want any bloodshed on the streets. And, the communique which was signed by Hacha had already been prepared.

He even used quotes from the official German document on foreign policy as evidence, even though it omitted a few things that happened during the meeting. :shock: He evidently hasn't read the memoirs of Schmidt or Keitel.

Like a typical denier, he was deliberately ignoring any evidence that exposed the flaws in his argument, resorted to argumentum ad infinitum and just utter stupidity.

Heck, even the native Austrian Hitler was willing to use military force to annex Austria to the Reich if there had been any resistance! It's ironic that an Austrian-born man who once led Germany has made the concept of Austria joining Germany to be almost non-existent, to the point where these days it is generally only advocated by those with far right-wing views.

Deniers basically think that Hitler should have been allowed to get his own way, because he demanded it. I'm glad the Poles refused to accept his demands, they had seen by Hitler's actions with Czechoslovakia that his word meant nothing. Hitler should have been stopped way before the invasion of Poland - as soon as he invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia or annexed the Memel Territory.

Deniers often like to spout that the British and French should not have declared war on Germany when Germany invaded Poland. Erm, should Hitler have just been allowed a freehand in Eastern Europe? The Greater Germanic Reich was a threat to every nation of Europe (and the world really).

Oh, and another thing, deniers like to spout that the Nazis were simply only bothered about the self-determination concept to be applied to the Germans. Did it not apply to the Czechs, Poles, Russians, etc?

Hitler's aggressive foreign policy which caused a war and thus allowed the Nazis to carry out their policies, especially their racial policies, actually exposed the contradictions of Nazism.
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