Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

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Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am

I’ve just been reading this 2006 book, which details the sordid swamp of lies and illegality of the Bush Administration (some of which, I admit, was continued by Obama). The worst offenders, really, were the willing accomplices in the press, which allowed itself to be manipulated.

Coleen Rowley, working in the Minnesota office of the FBI, tried to move heaven and earth to get a search warrant to impound the computer of Zacarias Mousaoui, who was arrested on immigration violations in August of 2001. The bureaucrats in Washington blocked her from doing so. Just imagine what might have been on that computer. But Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney wanted to get Saddam Hussein, and they needed a cause to go to war. So, they deliberately didn’t take aggressive steps to protect the country. And they got none other than Robert Mueller himself, who became head of the FBI shortly afterward, to make a public pronouncement that there was no warning of 9/11. And, by coincidence (???) on the very day when Rowley testified before the Senate, Bush grabbed all the headlines by announcing the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. Rowley got no attention at all.

Rich shows in detail how the Bush Administration cynically and relentlessly, day after day, exploited the fear of terrorist attacks to grab the headlines and to prevent any rational discussion of its policies. We were given the Colors of the Day, so we'd know exactly HOW worried to be each day, but we were never told WHAT specific terrorist act we should be worried about. The number of lies told by Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Rice, amplified by their sycophants in the Right Wing Media like Rash Limpjaw and Ann ("Crash the Cruel") Coulter, rivals even the vaunted Trump total. To take a trivial example, consider the famous "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner on the Abraham Lincoln, where Bush strutted around in a jump suit, trying desperately to leave the impression that he had himself piloted the plane that landed on the aircraft carrier. The administration put out the story that it was the sailors on the ship who put up the banner. It wasn't; it was a PR firm hired by the administration. When that lie was blown up, they backed up one step and said the banner was "suggested" by the sailors. They never identified the sailors who made the suggestion, however, so no reporter could talk to them and find out.

Perhaps the lowest, scummiest, most despicable act of all was sending out letters in the name of individual soldiers celebrating the great achievement without even telling the soldiers that their names were being signed to letters they supposedly wrote.

Writing in 2006, Rich captured the full ignominy of the failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks, the choreographed toppling of the statue of Saddam Hussein, the idiotic and incompetent administration of Bremer and others in Iraq (how does one "misplace" 80 TONS of $100 bills?), and later the bungled response to Hurricane Katrina by a FEMA that had had its budget cut by 39 billion dollars and was run by a specialist in Lipizzan stallions. He wrote too early to capture the final coup de grace to Bush's reputation that came with the fiscal meltdown of 2008.
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

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Re: Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm

Its fun to quibble:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
I’ve just been reading this 2006 book, which details the sordid swamp of lies and illegality of the Bush Administration (some of which, I admit, was continued by Obama). The worst offenders, really, were the willing accomplices in the press, which allowed itself to be manipulated.
By definition, willing accomplices are not manipulated. It either /or.....unless you really want to quibble.
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
Coleen Rowley, working in the Minnesota office of the FBI, tried to move heaven and earth to get a search warrant to impound the computer of Zacarias Mousaoui, who was arrested on immigration violations in August of 2001. The bureaucrats in Washington blocked her from doing so.
I don't know if the FBI hamstrings itself to get this result........but.........investigators/lawyers go to judges to get search warrants. Bureaucrats in Washington have nothing to do with the process. Hmmmm.....ok.....there is a lot of bureaucracy in DC, and the FBI does seem to hamstrings itself all too often (EG the so called guideline/rule they can't indict a sitting President===>AS IF Trump could go out on Fifth Avenue and shoot sometone without consequences.....just plain silly)) but the bureaucrat in such cases would not be a "Washingtonian" as much as it would be someone in the FBI? I don't know......but I'm getting a whiff of bs (small case).....so I'm just disagreeing.
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
Rich shows in detail how the Bush Administration cynically and relentlessly, day after day, exploited the fear of terrorist attacks to grab the headlines and to prevent any rational discussion of its policies.
Ha, ha.......you sound like he had to work at this....but in fact he did just what you say: just collect the daily headlines. RIGHT THERE ..... for everyone to see. Reporting the obvious....just add heavy breathing?
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
We were given the Colors of the Day, so we'd know exactly HOW worried to be each day, but we were never told WHAT specific terrorist act we should be worried about. The number of lies told by Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Rice, amplified by their sycophants in the Right Wing Media like Rash Limpjaw and Ann ("Crash the Cruel") Coulter, rivals even the vaunted Trump total. To take a trivial example, consider the famous "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner on the Abraham Lincoln, where Bush strutted around in a jump suit, trying desperately to leave the impression that he had himself piloted the plane that landed on the aircraft carrier. The administration put out the story that it was the sailors on the ship who put up the banner. It wasn't; it was a PR firm hired by the administration. When that lie was blown up, they backed up one step and said the banner was "suggested" by the sailors. They never identified the sailors who made the suggestion, however, so no reporter could talk to them and find out.
Again, all totally obvious, not worth a book but rather a passing comment in some actual investigative reporting????
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
Perhaps the lowest, scummiest, most despicable act of all was sending out letters in the name of individual soldiers celebrating the great achievement without even telling the soldiers that their names were being signed to letters they supposedly wrote.
Hmmmm....seems to me a very long list can be made of worse things? On the top: invading iraq. Impersonating soldiers....so puerile, wouldn't make my list except for how low they sunk to use such low impact ploys. No dung pile left unutilized.
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am

Writing in 2006, Rich captured the full ignominy of the failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks, the choreographed toppling of the statue of Saddam Hussein, the idiotic and incompetent administration of Bremer and others in Iraq (how does one "misplace" 80 TONS of $100 bills?), and later the bungled response to Hurricane Katrina by a FEMA that had had its budget cut by 39 billion dollars and was run by a specialist in Lipizzan stallions. He wrote too early to capture the final coup de grace to Bush's reputation that came with the fiscal meltdown of 2008.
BushtheRetarded Draft Dodging Coke Head Born Again Silver Spoon Marthas Vineyard Texas Transplant has all my scorn........but........I don't blame him of US Gubment for not preventing 9/11. They "should have" but thats in Alt World where everything works as it should instead of by people. Similarly, the Clintons have more to do with the fiscal meltdown than does Bush..........and I almost blame Obama more for not putting half of Wallstreet in Jail. He paid them for their failures, let them keep their bonuses and pay more, and set us all up for whats happening in the next year?

Again: Just Look.
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Re: Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by Gord » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Its fun to quibble:
it's
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
I’ve just been reading this 2006 book, which details the sordid swamp of lies and illegality of the Bush Administration (some of which, I admit, was continued by Obama). The worst offenders, really, were the willing accomplices in the press, which allowed itself to be manipulated.
By definition, willing accomplices are not manipulated. It either /or.....unless you really want to quibble.
Sure they can. You can try to manipulate anyone; those who knowingly allow you to do so can be called "accomplices" in such manipulation.

For instance, if you and I both wanted to make Christianity look bad in the eyes of Christians, one of us could make a video full of lies and falsehoods about the origins of Christianity and then ask the other one to put it up on his youtube channel. If the accomplice doesn't know the video is full of lies but does knows the video isn't quite right, and yet he still puts it up on his channel, he has been manipulated.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:14 am

thats what I said. Accomplice is the right word/idea NOT manipulation. Its what those words mean.

Always comply with the dictionary: Its what is right. Eschew punctuation. Its redundant.
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Re: Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:33 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Its fun to quibble:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
I’ve just been reading this 2006 book, which details the sordid swamp of lies and illegality of the Bush Administration (some of which, I admit, was continued by Obama). The worst offenders, really, were the willing accomplices in the press, which allowed itself to be manipulated.
By definition, willing accomplices are not manipulated. It either /or.....unless you really want to quibble.
OK, let's have some fun, then. So, when people get a massage, by definition, they are not really being manipulated, since they gave their consent.?
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
Coleen Rowley, working in the Minnesota office of the FBI, tried to move heaven and earth to get a search warrant to impound the computer of Zacarias Mousaoui, who was arrested on immigration violations in August of 2001. The bureaucrats in Washington blocked her from doing so.
I don't know if the FBI hamstrings itself to get this result........but.........investigators/lawyers go to judges to get search warrants. Bureaucrats in Washington have nothing to do with the process. Hmmmm.....ok.....there is a lot of bureaucracy in DC, and the FBI does seem to hamstrings itself all too often (EG the so called guideline/rule they can't indict a sitting President===>AS IF Trump could go out on Fifth Avenue and shoot sometone without consequences.....just plain silly)) but the bureaucrat in such cases would not be a "Washingtonian" as much as it would be someone in the FBI? I don't know......but I'm getting a whiff of bs (small case).....so I'm just disagreeing.
This is a bit confusing. Are you saying you DIDN'T KNOW that a person working in a field office has to get approval from the proper authorities before she can seek a search warrant? Surely, you knew that. Everybody knew that. (And, I WILL stop calling you Shirley. I promise.)
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
Rich shows in detail how the Bush Administration cynically and relentlessly, day after day, exploited the fear of terrorist attacks to grab the headlines and to prevent any rational discussion of its policies.
Ha, ha.......you sound like he had to work at this....but in fact he did just what you say: just collect the daily headlines. RIGHT THERE ..... for everyone to see. Reporting the obvious....just add heavy breathing?
Conflation going on here. I assume of course that he had to do SOME work. (Don't you?) But I made no point of the work involved, only the thoroughness of the result. Don't conflate the effort with the result. Conflation is a sin.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
We were given the Colors of the Day, so we'd know exactly HOW worried to be each day, but we were never told WHAT specific terrorist act we should be worried about. The number of lies told by Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Rice, amplified by their sycophants in the Right Wing Media like Rash Limpjaw and Ann ("Crash the Cruel") Coulter, rivals even the vaunted Trump total. To take a trivial example, consider the famous "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner on the Abraham Lincoln, where Bush strutted around in a jump suit, trying desperately to leave the impression that he had himself piloted the plane that landed on the aircraft carrier. The administration put out the story that it was the sailors on the ship who put up the banner. It wasn't; it was a PR firm hired by the administration. When that lie was blown up, they backed up one step and said the banner was "suggested" by the sailors. They never identified the sailors who made the suggestion, however, so no reporter could talk to them and find out.
Again, all totally obvious, not worth a book but rather a passing comment in some actual investigative reporting????
Right. Too bad Frank Rich doesn't hire you on retainer. He might really get somewhere in his career.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am
Perhaps the lowest, scummiest, most despicable act of all was sending out letters in the name of individual soldiers celebrating the great achievement without even telling the soldiers that their names were being signed to letters they supposedly wrote.
Hmmmm....seems to me a very long list can be made of worse things? On the top: invading iraq. Impersonating soldiers....so puerile, wouldn't make my list except for how low they sunk to use such low impact ploys. No dung pile left unutilized.
Here's a reading tip: I think you'll find that the topic sentence of a paragraph shows its context. I was writing about the techniques used for grabbing headlines and manipulating the media. The actual crimes of the war were not part of the discussion.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:11 pm
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:50 am

Writing in 2006, Rich captured the full ignominy of the failure to prevent the 9/11 attacks, the choreographed toppling of the statue of Saddam Hussein, the idiotic and incompetent administration of Bremer and others in Iraq (how does one "misplace" 80 TONS of $100 bills?), and later the bungled response to Hurricane Katrina by a FEMA that had had its budget cut by 39 billion dollars and was run by a specialist in Lipizzan stallions. He wrote too early to capture the final coup de grace to Bush's reputation that came with the fiscal meltdown of 2008.
BushtheRetarded Draft Dodging Coke Head Born Again Silver Spoon Marthas Vineyard Texas Transplant has all my scorn........but........I don't blame him of US Gubment for not preventing 9/11. They "should have" but thats in Alt World where everything works as it should instead of by people. Similarly, the Clintons have more to do with the fiscal meltdown than does Bush..........and I almost blame Obama more for not putting half of Wallstreet in Jail. He paid them for their failures, let them keep their bonuses and pay more, and set us all up for whats happening in the next year?

Again: Just Look.
There's a lot in here that would take many posts to sort out, especially about the 2008 meltdown. It's true that it was Clinton who repealed Glass-Steagall, but it was Republicans who enabled schemers like Ken Lay and whoever the genius was who invented credit default swaps. About the 9/11 warnings, I would have agreed with you some years ago, and in fact the late Daniel Schorr did agree with you. But Rich lays out a very good case that the warnings were quite explicit, and Bush wasn't interested in doing anything about them.
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

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Re: Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm

Upton, you have my sympathies. You must really be bored? But you have my admiration as well. Best on point response I have seen in a long time. Well, I skimmed and saw pluses and minuses.....now the more careful review.
OK, let's have some fun, then. So, when people get a massage, by definition, they are not really being manipulated, since they gave their consent.?
There are immediately three different ways to read this. 1: you are wildly out of context conflating physical massage with being psychologically maneuvered to do something you would not do absent that maneuvering. 2. extending No1...the relevant manipulation would come by the encouragement to get the massage NOT the massage itself. The most common such manipulation I know of in that circumstance would be the "roper" saying "Looking for a good time?...wink, wink. THAT is the manipulation, not the massage...and all too many are duped. 3. You didn't actually quibble, but instead went off track. There is always "more", but we have the remainder to deal with.............
This is a bit confusing. Are you saying you DIDN'T KNOW that a person working in a field office has to get approval from the proper authorities before she can seek a search warrant? Surely, you knew that. Everybody knew that. (And, I WILL stop calling you Shirley. I promise.)
Are you saying you do? I've never worked for the FBI or in a field office thereof. I would think normal practice would be a certain level of autonomy for field offices especially one for a whole State? Thats a big field you got there!! What I "know" is that getting search warrants is pretty routine low level stuff and already has third party supervision of the court. Contra: she said she was stymied in her efforts. I'd hate to work for a place that required higher review of an immigration violators computer being seized. Is the House of Saud that firmly entrenched at every nook and cranny of US Bureaucratic affairs?

Conflation going on here. I assume of course that he had to do SOME work. (Don't you?) But I made no point of the work involved, only the thoroughness of the result. Don't conflate the effort with the result. Conflation is a sin.
Yes, conflation or cause and effect? We agree he did SOME work and achieved a thorough result.....that does take work, or, I would prefer to say "attention to detail." I've always had that bias being a paper pusher most of my life. WORK is digging ditches. Reading the daily paper and paying attention........just takes paying attention. But I recognized the various assumptions available by noting that it only "sounded like" you were admiring his work/effort/attention. All in the matrix.

[quoteRight. Too bad Frank Rich doesn't hire you on retainer. He might really get somewhere in his career.][/quote] Its his editor/publisher I would want to work for.........and if any of my stable had a reliable fan base, I'd be encouraging them to submit their manuscripts to get a free massage. It doens't have to be "good" if it sells. Lots of "professional writers" coast. Actually.........its right there: what new ground did he break?? Anything??? Or just putting together what the newspapers already did the work on? Sounds like another few weeks on the well worn treadmill to me?
Here's a reading tip: I think you'll find that the topic sentence of a paragraph shows its context. I was writing about the techniques used for grabbing headlines and manipulating the media. The actual crimes of the war were not part of the discussion.
Fair comment..........if it applies. For "this" reader all you referenced was the very vague, very encompassing "most dispicable act of all" with no contextual reference to something less or more specific than "all": the grabbing headlines. Speaking of topical sentences showing that context....I thought this was the greatest story never told about BushtheRetards response to 911? You know: the important stuff. Indeed, each paragraph should support the books title/theme, and using our Warriors signature is in line with using their bodies. The latter being much worse than the former.
But Rich lays out a very good case that the warnings were quite explicit, and Bush wasn't interested in doing anything about them.
Yeah, I have some dim memory of somebody sending in a report that they knew of foreigners taking flight lessons only wanting to learn how to fly and not to land....a red flag for anyone? Was it really "Bush" that wasn't interested?? Seems like some log rolling going on there....the smallest of minutae supposedly known and sat on at the highest levels? Doesn't pass my smell test. All of these allegations don't put in the context of the thousand of other conflicting reports of the same type of activities. Most "cases" can be viewed in hindsight this way. "Look at this....if only......." but thats how the cookie crumbles. Skyscrapers too.

Well, I hope it was good for you...........not trying to manipulate you. Just having fun with my own skepticism, contrariness, and general sour outlook. I always brought cash and paid more than my share. What else are friends for??
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Re: Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:43 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Well, I hope it was good for you...........not trying to manipulate you. Just having fun with my own skepticism, contrariness, and general sour outlook. I always brought cash and paid more than my share. What else are friends for??
Well, that at least. Thanks for the fencing match.

But no, I'm not bored, just annoyed at a couple of jobs I have to do that I wish I hadn't agreed to, so postponing the work on them...
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

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Re: Frank Rich, "The Greatest Story Ever Sold"

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:07 pm

I used to fence. Great sport. Interesting about sports and people. When we fence, we look forward to a close match. It makes our game better. when its arguing (aka Rhetoric and Logic), too many get "insulted." As if learning to parry to protect your vitals was a bad thing.

I think I may have used a broad sword in the Denial sub forum though. Not as precise as an epee.

So: Frank Rich, I take it nothing new, just a nice review??
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