Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Who else knows what we know, Jerry?
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by OutOfBreath » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:59 am

Bobbo: I have no idea what was your point in your last post.

Tom: Are you claiming that services are not part of the economy?

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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:33 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:59 am
Bobbo: I have no idea what was your point in your last post.
Oh? I assumed you were right so I went back and read it expecting to have to correct or explain it. Nope. It does make sense to me. Are you confusing the notion that you don't agree with the sentiment expressed with not understanding it? I doubt that.

A little more prescision on your part? YOU agreed GDP was not all that useful. In Para One I just reference two other measures that some mavericks have stated are more accurate. Should make sense? Para Two just repeats the argument. It was discussed how the unemployment rate is more SHAM than informative........thats all I said/repeated. same with other references. The Fortune 500 and S&P is NO MEASURE of general stock performance as both are regularly filtered to remove the dead and poor performers. Again: more SHAM than information. Should make sense.

I have no idea what your lack of ideas is actually about. Ignore the sarcasm, but enjoy the point?
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:33 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:59 am
Tom: Are you claiming that services are not part of the economy?
Peace
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No, services are definitely a necessary part of the economy, but there are services and there are services (American expression, there is this and there is this, maybe you are familiar with it.).

For example, some services like auto and truck repair shops and truck drivers are vital to a functioning economy while others, like tattoo artists and secret police are not.

I'm not going to denigrate services like nail salons, or pubs, which I very much enjoy, or even prostitution, but I question whether they should be included as products when measuring GDP.

Probably the largest "service industry" in the US is the federal bureaucracy, followed by the state and local bureaucracies.

Obviously, if everyone were a federal, state, or local bureaucrat, or some other sort of government employee, everyone would be cold and starving, as in the Soviet Union when it collapsed, and that seems to be the direction we will heading in when the government has to pay its $22 trillion credit card debt.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by TJrandom » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:06 pm

Tom, we are all prostitutes when for income we perform a service we would rather not perform. I didn't really enjoy managing financial services systems for obtusely rich people, but it paid well, so I prostituted myself. For GDP, where to draw the line for services?

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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:33 pm

(American expression, there is this and there is this, maybe you are familiar with it.).
It's a mode of expression that translates perfectly into Russian, for example: река реке рознь (There are rivers and there are rivers. That is, not all rivers are the same. Literally, "a river to a river is different.")
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:33 am

Tom Palven wrote: No, services are definitely a necessary part of the economy, but there are services and there are services (American expression, there is this and there is this, maybe you are familiar with it.). For example, some services like auto and truck repair shops and truck drivers are vital to a functioning economy while others, like tattoo artists and secret police are not.
So you are a Libertarian who says people have the right to do anything they want, as long as you approve it. Hitler said the same thing.

All Services are included in calculating GDP, whether you like them or not.

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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:53 am

Tom Palven wrote: Obviously, if everyone were a federal, state, or local bureaucrat, or some other sort of government employee, everyone would be cold and starving, as in the Soviet Union when it collapsed, and that seems to be the direction we will heading in when the government has to pay its $22 trillion credit card debt.
The $22 billion is mostly private debt by businesses and not government debt.

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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:30 am

Getting awful FUZZY in here. Discussion started off about GDP which is a Governmental Calculation of Defined products and service produces and rendered during a period by all good folks governmental and private. Then the National Debt which is purely National Gubment activities which is a good measure of how crazen, two faced, hypocritical, and corrupt our elected leadership is, then on to Credit Card Debt which is totally unlike the foregoing two. Why all this mind numbing conflation??? You know: this is this and that river over there is different?

Lots of other kinds of DEBT that unavoidably will ultimately impinge on if not crash our economy (Unfunded Retirement/Military Healthcare/The Ponzi Scheme that underlies almost all business/stock transactions in America....etc). I know that highs are fun....but they only set up the lows. Sad as real/rational leadership is about smoothing the curve, not twisting everything to make it worse.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:29 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:30 am
Getting awful FUZZY in here. Discussion started off about GDP which is a Governmental Calculation of Defined products and service produces and rendered during a period by all good folks governmental and private. Then the National Debt which is purely National Gubment activities which is a good measure of how crazen, two faced, hypocritical, and corrupt our elected leadership is, then on to Credit Card Debt which is totally unlike the foregoing two. Why all this mind numbing conflation??? You know: this is this and that river over there is different?

Lots of other kinds of DEBT that unavoidably will ultimately impinge on if not crash our economy (Unfunded Retirement/Military Healthcare/The Ponzi Scheme that underlies almost all business/stock transactions in America....etc). I know that highs are fun....but they only set up the lows. Sad as real/rational leadership is about smoothing the curve, not twisting everything to make it worse.
Yes, the National debt is purely government debt.

I'm using federal govenment credit card debt in a metaphorical sense. The goverment just sells IOU's (bonds) or just cranks out what amounts to counterfeit money ("quantitaive easing") to pay it's bills.

I'm sorry I confused the issue.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:38 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:53 am
Tom Palven wrote: Obviously, if everyone were a federal, state, or local bureaucrat, or some other sort of government employee, everyone would be cold and starving, as in the Soviet Union when it collapsed, and that seems to be the direction we will heading in when the government has to pay its $22 trillion credit card debt.
The $22 billion is mostly private debt by businesses and not government debt.
You can go to any number of sites and it is agreed that the $22 Trillion refers to the debt owed by the government, not businewss debt,
mortgage debt, credit card debt, student loan debt, etc.

Are you "Matthew EllardII II"? Seems "Matthew Ellard I" would know this.

Government debt - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_debt
Overview
Government debt (also known as public interest, public debt, national debt and sovereign debt) is the debt owed by a government. By contrast, the annual "government deficit" refers to the difference between government receipts and spending in a single year.
Government debt can be categorized as internal debt (owed to lenders within the country) and external debt(owed to foreign lenders). Another common division of government debt is by duration until repayment is due. Short term debt is generally considered to be for one year or less, and long term deb…
Read more on Wikipedia
Last edited by Tom Palven on Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:21 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:29 am
Yes, the National debt is purely government debt.

I'm using federal govenment credit card debt in a metaphorical sense.
That is complete and total nonsense. I FEAR to read any farther.....
Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:29 am
The goverment just sells IOU's (bonds) or just cranks out what amounts to counterfeit money ("quantitaive easing") to pay it's bills.
Yes, bonds are an IOU. NO, creating money by bookkeeping entries is not counterfeit money. It almost unavoidably reduces the value of the currency but its not counterfeit in any sense of the word. Really: make the dictionary your friend. Precision with words will lead to precision with ideas.

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:29 am
I'm sorry I confused the issue.
A recognition AND an apology? Wow. First time i've seen that from you, but our exchange has been limited. Good Man. Ha, ha.........no emoji's either. A pleasure to read.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:21 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:29 am
Yes, the National debt is purely government debt.

I'm using federal govenment credit card debt in a metaphorical sense.
That is complete and total nonsense. I FEAR to read any farther.....
Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:29 am
The goverment just sells IOU's (bonds) or just cranks out what amounts to counterfeit money ("quantitaive easing") to pay it's bills.
Yes, bonds are an IOU. NO, creating money by bookkeeping entries is not counterfeit money. It almost unavoidably reduces the value of the currency but its not counterfeit in any sense of the word. Really: make the dictionary your friend. Precision with words will lead to precision with ideas.

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:29 am
I'm sorry I confused the issue.
A recognition AND an apology? Wow. First time i've seen that from you, but our exchange has been limited. Good Man. Ha, ha.........no emoji's either. A pleasure to read.
Yes, I believe that "quantitative easing" is raising money not through regular bonds sales, but through bookkeeping entries, as you said, based on the "full faith and credit of the US Treasury, which seems like the full faith and credit of the Zimbabwe treasury dept."

If you or I printed and circulated money based on nothing more than the "full faith and credit of bobbo" or Tom, it would be called counterfeiting, however, I admit again that I don't fully understand this, or the explanations given below.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/113713 ... -isnt-free.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing

Note paragraph six in the Wikipedia article:
"The Dutch Central Bank itself sees QE as being a money creation operation:"[5]
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:20 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am
If you or I printed and circulated money based on nothing more than the "full faith and credit of bobbo" or Tom, it would be called counterfeiting,....
Probably...but it would be factually/definitionally/LEGALLY incorrect. Too many people don't care what words mean and will just say whatever feels good or close enough....even when its totally wrong.

Just look up the word in any good dictionary........It doesn't take much reading to not post errors.

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am
, however, I admit again that I don't fully understand this, or the explanations given below.
Ha, ha.........then why continue on the subject.....WITHOUT even looking up the basics?

counterfeit: Not genuine; imitating something superior //// Ok, THAT alone could lead to what you posted "but" a BobboBill clearly presented as such without any reasonable interpretation the BobboBill is USA Currency, there is nothing illegal or counterfeit about it. My neighbor even took my own hand written IOQ last week for Two USA Dollars as neither of us had change for a Twenty (USA). Its mostly a habit pattern rather than anything else....but there is great pleasure in knowing you have used the right word in the right place. Make it a hobby...........

And yes......I did come on initially strong just above "in order to" set up the contrast. My Kudo was purely felt, the umbrage at your misspeak: a bit manufactured. We live in a swamp of poor communication.......
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:09 am

Hold you hormones, everyone, there has apparently arisen a new foreign policy:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/04/05/us- ... and-china/

Can anyone say "floundering"?

floun·der
[ˈfloundər]

VERB
floundering (present participle)
struggle or stagger helplessly or clumsily in water or mud.
"he was floundering about in the shallow offshore waters"
synonyms:
struggle · thrash · thresh · flail · toss and turn · twist and turn · pitch · splash · stagger · stumble · falter · lurch · blunder · fumble · grope · squirm · writhe
struggle mentally; show or feel great confusion.
"she floundered, not knowing quite what to say"
synonyms:
struggle mentally · be out of one's depth · be in the dark · have difficulty · be confounded · be confused · be dumbfounded · scratch one's head · [more]
be in serious difficulty.
"many firms are floundering"
synonyms:
struggle financially · be in dire straits · face financial ruin · be in difficulties · face bankruptcy/insolvency
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:25 pm

Please stop posting links with no context at all? Its the decent thing to do. Just a single sentence: something to make the link relevant to anything else? Not just a diary of your current reading habits and affection.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:25 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:25 pm
Please stop posting links with no context at all? Its the decent thing to do. Just a single sentence: something to make the link relevant to anything else? Not just a diary of your current reading habits and affection.

Thank you for your interest.

We appreciate your input.

Please restrict your comments here to those related to the OP.

If you have no comment related to the OP, please address your concerns to We-Care@Facebook.com to connect with someone who may possibly give a leaping lap-dance about them.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:59 am

Silly.
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Re: Trump's Trip to Iraq...

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:06 am

yep