"Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

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Goody67
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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Goody67 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:09 pm

With regards to Hitler's education and his reading habits, he wrote quite openly:
I know people who 'read' enormously, book for book, letter for letter, yet whom I would not describe as 'well-read.' True they possess a mass of 'knowledge,' but their brain is unable to organize and register the material they have taken in. They lack the art of sifting what is valuable for them in a book from that which is without value, of retaining the one forever, and, if possible, not even seeing the rest, but in any case not dragging it around with them as useless ballast. For reading is no end in itself, but a means to an end. It should primarily help to fill the framework constituted by every man's talents and abilities; in addition, it should provide the tools and building materials which the individual needs for his life's work, regardless whether this consists in a primitive struggle for sustenance or the satisfaction of a high calling; secondly, it should transmit a general world view. In both cases, however, it is essential that the con tent of what one reads at any time should not be transmitted to the memory in the sequence of the book or books, but like the stone of a mosaic should fit into the general world picture in its proper place, and thus help to form this picture in the mind of the reader. Otherwise there arises a confused muddle of memorized facts which not only are worthless, but also make their unto fortunate possessor conceited. For such a reader now believes himself in all seriousness to be {educated,' to understand something of life, to have knowledge, while in reality, with every new acquisition of this kind of 'education,' he is growing more and more removed from the world until, not infrequently, he ends up in a sanitarium or in parliament.

Never will such a mind succeed in culling from the confusion of his ' knowledge ' anything that suits the demands of the hour, for his intellectual ballast is not organized along the lines of life, but in the sequence of the books as he read them and as their content has piled up in his brain If Fate, in the requirements of his daily life, desired to remind him to make a correct application of what he had read, it would have to indicate title and page number, since the poor fool would otherwise never in all his life find the correct place. But since Fate does not do this, these bright boys in any critical situation come into the most terrible embarrassment, cast about convulsively for analogous cases, and with mortal certainty naturally find the wrong formulas.

If this were not true, it would be impossible for us to understand the political behavior of our learned and highly placed government heroes, unless we decided to assume outright villainy instead of pathological propensities.

On the other hand, a man who possesses the art of correct reading will, in studying any book, magazine, or pamphlet, instinctively and immediately perceive everything which in his opinion is worth permanently remembering, either because it is suited to his purpose or generally worth knowing. Once the knowledge he has achieved in this fashion is correctly coordinated within the somehow existing picture of this or that subject created by the imaginations it will function either as a corrective or a complement, thus enhancing either the correctness or the clarity of the picture.
Basically, Hitler only mainly read stuff that confirmed what he already thought and dismissed anything he disagreed with or was contrary to what he believed.
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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:14 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:03 pm
There is one example in Mein Kampf that Hitler wrote about which I find interesting:
There is one kind of sport which should be specially encouraged, although many people who call themselves völkisch consider it brutal and vulgar, and that is boxing. It is incredible how many false notions prevail among the 'cultivated' classes. The fact that the young man learns how to fence and then spends his time in duels is considered quite natural and respectable. But boxing – that is brutal. Why? There is no other sport which equals this in developing the militant spirit, none that demands such a power of rapid decision or which gives the body the flexibility of good steel. It is no more vulgar when two young people settle their differences with their fists than with sharp-pointed pieces of steel. One who is attacked and defends himself with his fists surely does not act less manly than one who runs off and yells for the assistance of a policeman. But, above all, a healthy youth has to learn to endure hard knocks. This principle may appear savage to our contemporary champions who fight only with the weapons of the intellect. But it is not the purpose of the People's State to educate a colony of æsthetic pacifists and physical degenerates. This State does not consider that the human ideal is to be found in the honourable philistine or the maidenly spinster, but in a dareful personification of manly force and in women capable of bringing men into the world.

Generally speaking, the function of sport is not only to make the individual strong, alert and daring, but also to harden the body and train it to endure an adverse environment.
Not a surprise, really. I can see where that would excite Adolf. It matches his peculiar Darwinian viewpoint.

I don’t remember that passage but I haven’t read Mein Kampf since I was in my early 20’s. I keep meaning to read it again but I found it boring the first time. Time probably hasn’t improved it. I also found a lot of the references confusing to a 1990’s college student that probably made a lot more sense to a German or Austrian in the 1920’s/1930’s. There is a version that footnotes back to who certain people were and what the references mean which I think would be valuable.

In any case any re-reads will have to wait.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

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https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Goody67 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:19 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:31 pm
Let’s face it, the biographical parts of Mein Kampf are crap. Hitler didn’t experience some “great awakening” in Vienna. He just backdated to gain credibility in the right-wing movement that he was a part of.

He drifted through Vienna. I think he gained some ancillary antisemitism through exposure to it but he was on fairly good terms with several Jews and even did business with them. His antisemitism didn’t really sprout until after the war.

Kershaw’s biography of him noted this, as did Ulrich.
The origins of Hitler's anti-semitism are not black and white. Although he was already a German nationalist before WW1, it seemed to have enforced his extreme German nationalism and because he believed in the Dolchstoßlegende (stab-in-the-back myth), he started to be an anti-semite after the war. Although Hitler claimed to have become an anti-semite in Vienna and despite reading anti-semitic leaflets and brochures (very common in German nationalist circles at the time), apart from one case made by his friend August Kubizek, Hitler never made any anti-semite remarks. Hitler dealt with Jews in Vienna, had Jewish acquaintances, benefited from Jewish citizens giving donations, Jewish social institutions, etc. He even spoke positively about the Jewish traditions because they preserved the "Jewish race". Also, Hitler never once made any remark about having a bad encounter with a Jew during his time in Vienna.

Read Brigitte Hamann's Hitler's Vienna: A Portrait of the Tyrant as a Young Man, especially after 347 (chapter "Was Young Hitler An Anti-Semite?", it is available to read via Google books.
Last edited by Goody67 on Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Goody67 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:26 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:14 pm
Not a surprise, really. I can see where that would excite Adolf. It matches his peculiar Darwinian viewpoint.

I don’t remember that passage but I haven’t read Mein Kampf since I was in my early 20’s. I keep meaning to read it again but I found it boring the first time. Time probably hasn’t improved it. I also found a lot of the references confusing to a 1990’s college student that probably made a lot more sense to a German or Austrian in the 1920’s/1930’s. There is a version that footnotes back to who certain people were and what the references mean which I think would be valuable.

In any case any re-reads will have to wait.
I don't think there was anything peculiar in Hitler's points about boxing. Why do people do boxing? Generally speaking, to be strong and to be able to defend themselves.

I do think he made one good point about sport:
Not a single day should be allowed to pass in which the young pupil does not have one hour of physical training in the morning and one in the evening; and every kind of sport and gymnastics should be included.
Physical fitness is generally a good way to live a healthy life. That's a no-brainer.

You can read the full book here:

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/

The quote about boxing can be found in the chapter "The State".

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch02.html
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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:46 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:26 pm



I don't think there was anything peculiar in Hitler's points about boxing. Why do people do boxing? Generally speaking, to be strong and to be able to defend themselves.
Not my thing. I don’t have issues with boxing itself but it wasn’t something I’d sit to watch.

My most famous brush with it was the Mike Tyson/Buster Douglas match. I’d never seen Tyson box but I remember friends who’d get the Pay-Per-View for 49.99 only to see Tyson knockout some poor sap in 15 seconds.

My buddy and I were at his house playing pool and drinking beer when the Tyson/Douglas match came on HBO. Out of curiosity we kept it on, after all, we didn’t get stuck with a PPV bill. We both figured it would be over soon.

To our surprise Douglas proceeded to pound Tyson into the ground. He eventually knocked Tyson out. So the one and only Tyson fight I ever watched wound up with him knocked out.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Balsamo » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:21 pm

Jeffk:
My most famous brush with it was the Mike Tyson/Buster Douglas match. I’d never seen Tyson box but I remember friends who’d get the Pay-Per-View for 49.99 only to see Tyson knockout some poor sap in 15 seconds.
The fight between Tyson and Douglas was well worth 49.99 quids. It was historical. You are quite lucky to have pick that one for your sole fight. ;)
Otherwise, Tyson was probably one of the best boxers in history, and probably frustrated many viewers by winning by ko during the first round.

But then, Boxing is my thing. I practiced real boxing before i started your "American boxing", and realized then that i actually never needed to use my legs to win :lol:

Are we derailing, here ???

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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:39 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:21 pm
Jeffk:
My most famous brush with it was the Mike Tyson/Buster Douglas match. I’d never seen Tyson box but I remember friends who’d get the Pay-Per-View for 49.99 only to see Tyson knockout some poor sap in 15 seconds.
The fight between Tyson and Douglas was well worth 49.99 quids. It was historical. You are quite lucky to have pick that one for your sole fight. ;)
Otherwise, Tyson was probably one of the best boxers in history, and probably frustrated many viewers by winning by ko during the first round.

But then, Boxing is my thing. I practiced real boxing before i started your "American boxing", and realized then that i actually never needed to use my legs to win :lol:

Are we derailing, here ???
Actually I watched it for free, it was on HBO at a friend’s house. I was also drinking his father’s beer..... lol
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

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https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:28 pm

>> Are we derailing, here ???

Yes. ;)
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:44 pm

Who...us? Derailing a thread?
Nnnnnnnoooooooo!!!!!!!!
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:55 pm

Perhaps I'll add something on the Nazis and auto racing . . . :)
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:07 pm

LOL
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544