Trump's Tariffs

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Tom Palven
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:30 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:49 pm
Did you see the headline?

The arrest warrant was the result of the increased sanctions against Iran, which were 100% Trump's idea. it is is fault, and he is lying about it, because suddenly it turns out how stupid that was.
Trump is explicitly saying that the freedom of the Chinese CFO is a bargaining chip in the trade war with China.

How the {!#%@} does this make it the fault of a "Deep State"?
You may well be right, but there have been various US deep state-orchestrated UN sanctions on Iran ever since the Iranians overthrew the US-installed puppet Shah in 1979, although the Trump regime reimposed the most recent ones.

The US general public did not even know that the deep state organized the 1953 coup of the only democratifally-elected government in a Mid-Eastern country until Obama apologized to Iran for it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran

If it wasn't the US deep state and British MI6 that organized that secret Operation Ajax coup, what would you call it? If "deep state" isn't a valid term for it, what is a better one? It wasn't just the CIA acting alone, but top level military and State Dept. apparatchiks had to be involved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iran ... p_d%27état
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm

The State Department under Obama and up to Tillerson did everything to keep the Iran Deal going.
Trump made it his mission to abort it against every internal and international advice (including by Great Britain).

Why do you want to look for a Deep State to blame for something we know exactly who is responsible?

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:53 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm
The State Department under Obama and up to Tillerson did everything to keep the Iran Deal going.
Trump made it his mission to abort it against every internal and international advice (including by Great Britain).

Why do you want to look for a Deep State to blame for something we know exactly who is responsible?
Okay, let's say that Trump and not a deep state is directly or indirectly responsible for reinstalling the current Iranian sanctions, but since Trump was committed to detente with North Korea, what would you call the US government entity most opposed to peaceful relations with North Korea, a permanent entity that has existed at least since 1979?

"Matthew Ellard" once referred to that entity as the "Intelligence community steering committee," although that was later denied.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:08 pm

The sanctions that Wangzhou is accused of violating are those which Obama initiated prior to negotiating the Iran treaty. They are not the Trump sanctions.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:51 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:53 pm
"Matthew Ellard" once referred to that entity as the "Intelligence community steering committee," although that was later denied.
You introduced the phrase "Intelligence community steering committee" and then accused Matthew of inventing it.
https://www.skepticforum.com/search.php ... +committee
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:03 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:There is no such thing as the "Deep State" . It is a propaganda by Fox News, which you keep posting on our forum. You can't name one member, how it is meant to work or set out what who is in control. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:If neither the Trump regime nor Congress is persecuting Meng Wangzhou, who is doing it?
You are a total idiot.

Donald Trump appointed the Attorney General to prosecute federal crimes. An indictment, by the DOJ's office was lodged at the US District Court for the Eastern District of New York. An Interpol warrant was received by Canada, which Canada is obliged to follow.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:13 am

Tom Palven wrote: You may well be right,
ElectricMonk is right.
Tom Palven wrote: ... but there have been various US deep state-orchestrated UN sanctions on Iran
There is no such thing as the Fox News Deep State conspiracy, It is Fox News propaganda that you spam on our forum. You cannot name one US sanction imposed by your fanciful "Deep State"

You once claimed that your "Deep State" was "government employees" who were "secretly disobeying" their elected leaders and imposed governance, to do their own agenda. However, you simultaneously claimed that Edward Snowden, a NSA employee, who disobeyed the NSA's governance was a hero. That's how confused you are.

Make up your mind, you complete idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:25 am

Tom Palven wrote:......but since Trump was committed to detente with North Korea, what would you call the US government entity most opposed to peaceful relations with North Korea,
It wasn't a US Department. It was North Korea itself, who lied about stopping weapons production.

15th November 2018 / " North Korean leader Kim Jong-un has visited test site of new weapon, state media says"
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-16/ ... e/10506674

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:11 am

Tom - Lets throw Deep State in Deep State every third Deep State word so Deep State we can Deep State reinforce the Deep State mime.

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:03 am
An indictment, by the DOJ's office was lodged at the US District Court for the Eastern District of New York. An Interpol warrant was received by Canada, which Canada is obliged to follow.
China seems to be taking it badly. They're collecting Canadians somewhere:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-46548614

Luckily they're only Canadians, so nobody cares.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:30 am

What is the exchange rate these days? Just one Chinese to two Canadians? Surely Canada needs to arrest a few more Chinese?

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:08 pm

Not sure, it might be based on their yearly income. Which means those Canadians are screwwwwwed.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:08 pm

I can think of some Canadians I would like to send them. Stephen Harper, for example.
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China and Canada / Proxy Arrests

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:22 pm

Gord wrote: China seems to be taking it badly. They're collecting Canadians somewhere:
The first Canadian who was arrested, is probably a Canadian Security Intelligence Service Officer. He only joined the International Crisis Group, which is an international research organisation, in conflict areas, in 2017. Before that he was with the Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development.

It seems to me that China is getting ready to have the option of "a swap" and China has chosen to pick on Canada rather than the USA. This isn't good news.

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Gord » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:55 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:08 pm
I can think of some Canadians I would like to send them. Stephen Harper, for example.
They wouldn't take him, I've tried.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:21 am

Inefficiencies are created by tariffs, something that Adam Smith discovered way back when:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1PW0BR
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China Tariffs

Post by TJrandom » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:34 am

Erm... aren't those tariffs, or possibly just non-tariff barriers imposed by China, that caused this routing?

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:12 am

Tom Palven wrote: Inefficiencies are created by tariffs, something that Adam Smith discovered way back when.......: [
Now Tom Palven. You lied and never studied economics You studied forest management and gardening,. You lied and claimed Adam Smith wasn't an economist.

Tell us exactly what Adam Smith, , "discovered about tariffs" in your own words using economics terminology? ( I read Adam Smiths because of his economic theory of taxation. )
:D :D

Do you want me to ask Bobbo the pragmatic to help you lie some more? He's very good at it. :lol: :lol:

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Re: China Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:13 am

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:34 am
Erm... aren't those tariffs, or possibly just non-tariff barriers imposed by China, that caused this routing?
Tom Palven hasn't worked out that you can't have an trade war with a communist country and that Americans pay the import tariffs. :D

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Re: China Tariffs

Post by landrew » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:29 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:13 am
TJrandom wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:34 am
Erm... aren't those tariffs, or possibly just non-tariff barriers imposed by China, that caused this routing?
Tom Palven hasn't worked out that you can't have an trade war with a communist country and that Americans pay the import tariffs. :D
China may be technically a communist country, but it's Chinese capitalism that we're trading with.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:38 pm

If I was gonna lie, I'd say something like "You can't have a trade war with a communist country" and then ask Matt to justify his comment. Then wait for him to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about and to divert to some other topic.

You know: Character is Destiny.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by landrew » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:47 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:38 pm
If I was gonna lie, I'd say something like "You can't have a trade war with a communist country" and then ask Matt to justify his comment. Then wait for him to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about and to divert to some other topic.

You know: Character is Destiny.
You wouldn't be asking everyone for citations and justification constantly like a magpie, if you understood that people also have their own opinions and commentaries based on their own learning, analysis and experience.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:57 pm

Oh landrew...........you da man!

What should one do when someone is "wrong" on basic reading skills?? ie: not based on learning, analysis or experience??? You are demonstrating turning ignorance into a spear rather than a shield. I'd give you a link for that, but you know......why open myself up to seeing for myself how I am wrong?
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Gord » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:58 pm

landrew wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:47 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:38 pm
If I was gonna lie, I'd say something like "You can't have a trade war with a communist country" and then ask Matt to justify his comment. Then wait for him to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about and to divert to some other topic.

You know: Character is Destiny.
You wouldn't be asking everyone for citations and justification constantly like a magpie, if you understood that people also have their own opinions and commentaries based on their own learning, analysis and experience.
[Citation needed.]
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:56 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: If I was gonna lie,
You have already been caught ling and forging evidence.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: I'd say something like "You can't have a trade war with a communist country" and then ask Matt to justify his comment.
Communist China immediately stopped all soy beans purchases from the USA, when Trump started his tariff war. Trump had no had to pay $12 billion to USA soy and other produce farmers who lost the Chinese trade. Didn't you know?

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Re: China Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:58 am

landrew wrote:China may be technically a communist country, but it's Chinese capitalism that we're trading with.
Errr....No. The Chinese government states who can and cannot be traded with.

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:09 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:56 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: I'd say something like "You can't have a trade war with a communist country" and then ask Matt to justify his comment.
Communist China immediately stopped all soy beans purchases from the USA, when Trump started his tariff war. Trump had no had to pay $12 billion to USA soy and other produce farmers who lost the Chinese trade. Didn't you know?
What you have posted is what I call a trade war. What do you call it?
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:14 am

Matthew Ellard, yesterday wrote: "You can't have a trade war with a communist country"
viewtopic.php?f=51&p=695779#p695548
bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: What you have posted is what I call a trade war. What do you call it?
A trade war you idiot. That's why I wrote "trade war"

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:17 am

So.....can you have a trade war with a communist country or not?
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: So.....can you have a trade war with a communist country or not?
No Bobbo.. A Communist country, ( a command economy) can stop all trade.

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:38 am

Exactly. And as you have posted just above, when they do that, it is called trade war. so, you have now explained yourself by taking both sides of the argument.

Smooth move.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:43 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Exactly. And as you have posted just above, when they do that, it is called trade war. so, you have now explained yourself by taking both sides of the argument.
No Bobbo. If trade ends there can't be a trade war. It's just too complex for you to understand.

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:45 am

Trade never stops. Where ya been....in the cloak closet??
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:50 am

China just bought a record amount of soy beans from the USA. You must have ate too many raw ones and gas is clouding your brain.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:51 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Trade never stops. Where ya been....in the cloak closet??
Reading the history of all trade stopping between North Korea and Western countries, you complete idiot. :lol: :lol:

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:53 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:China just bought a record amount of soy beans from the USA. You must have ate too many raw ones and gas is clouding your brain.
That's right. The USA caved in. Trump couldn't keep paying 12 billion to unemployed US Soy farmers. Didn't you know? :lol:

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:14 am

Yes.............so far you are describing EXACTLY what a Trade War is. What you obviously don't understand is they are ongoing even when goods arent' being traded/moved around. Its like three dimensional chess. Not hide the sausage you so frequently engage in.

Silly Matt.
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:00 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Yes.............so far you are describing EXACTLY what a Trade War is.
That's right Bobbo. That's why I used the words "Trade War".
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:What you obviously don't understand is they are ongoing even when goods arent' being traded/moved around.
If there is no trade between countries there is cannot be a "trade war." That's why North Korea isn't a trade war threat to the West.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Its like three dimensional chess.
No it is economics. That's why they have an Economics Warfare School at West Point.

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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:07 am

Matt: would you further demonstrate your postion by saying no one is playing chess when they aren't moving the pieces?
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Re: Trump's Tariffs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:19 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: would you further demonstrate your postion by saying no one is playing chess when they aren't moving the pieces?
What's a "postion"?

Stop trolling.