Hunts Majdanek film.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:36 pm

LOL please lord keep that that "dialogue" over at Rodoh!
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:45 pm

I honestly couldn't agree more.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:38 pm

Werd at Rodoh hysterically wonders where Hunt's change of tune leaves him on Majdanek: Hunt's statement indicates that he now believes that at least two of the gas chambers were used for mass murder.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:42 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Werd at Rodoh hysterically wonders where Hunt's change of tune leaves him on Majdanek: Hunt's statement indicates that he now believes that at least two of the gas chambers were used for mass murder.

I think werd is heading for a psychotic break, deeper than the one he's on right now.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:48 pm

Apparently he cannot subtract 5 from 7 and get 2. That's pretty low.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:30 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Apparently he cannot subtract 5 from 7 and get 2. That's pretty low.
Remember 12 is equal to 15.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:46 pm

:rotfl:
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed May 10, 2017 6:48 pm

Thought this might interest Jeff K the most, although I'm sure others will also be interested. (I wouldn't be shocked if SM or TBR already have access to this.)

But I found that yivoarchives has translated a number of documents from the 1944 majdanek trial to English under folder 149:

http://www.yivoarchives.org/index.php?p ... =auschwitz
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:13 am

Not sure where else to put this but it’s been 75 years since Aktion Erntefest:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_Erntefest
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:37 pm

Finder & Prusin, in their review of the late 1944 Majdanek trial in Poland, state of victims of gassing at Majdanek that “surviving documentation does not permit an estimate of their numbers.” From what I’ve seen, this is correct and why estimates vary and why I’ve worked with ranges and possibilities. (Finder & Prusin, Justice behind the Iron Curtain, p 30, relying on Schwindt’s book and the USHMM encyclopedia)

I've recently updated my Majdanek gas chambers testimonies spreadsheet: of 114 testimonies about gassings at Majdanek that I’ve read or listened to, seen excerpted, or read summaries of or references to, 48 describe the bunker-bathhouse complex generally as the site of gassings, 17 identify the bunker specifically, 19 refer to presumably fixed chambers without specificity as to location, and 11 testimonies refer to a gas van (the remainder are generic, speaking of “gassing” but not clearly where - or the portion of the testimony I’ve seen doesn’t contain specific information).
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:32 pm

In case David has the cojones actually to make a point about Majdanek and support it here, this is a reminder that

1) I welcomed David back here with a simple request about his claim that I'm "too obdurate (or stupid) to understand a construction document": : "I tell you what, you return to the Majdanek thread and show us what you're claiming. Sketch barrack 41 as it is today and show graphically how it is identical to the plan you and Hunt used to go on about."

2) David apparently prefers tossing around unsupported nonsense, because he has yet to pop in here and show us what he means and how it works. Now, the comparative sketches I requested were actually provided 2 years ago by D-H amidst a long discussion of David's false assertions about a Majdanek construction plan and what was actually built at the site of bathhouses nos. 41 & 42:
Denying-History wrote:
Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:48 pm
scrmbldggs wrote:
David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Hunt's {!#%@} even if he goes on a fishing expedition and finds some such evidence. I've actually found a couple items that make some prisoners on occasion entering from the north a possibility. But I've shown significantly more evidence of prisoners actually entering from the south.
Just so I understand your theory,
If people entered from the southern end, do you claim they exited out of the northern door?
Or do you having them turn around and also exit from the southern door?
It would seem they exited out the western side of barrack 41 - you can see the door on the wall of the tubs leading to the small corridor, the side door to the outside in images showing that angle, and on the sketch by the Soviet Commission...

ETA Image
Look at that short line in the lower third of 41, going to the left pointing at barrack 42.
I think this might help David understand the layout.

Image
(my edit to include schematic which disappeared in thread)

David failed to deal with D-H's post in 2016 as surely as he will fail again, that is, if he has the guts to try.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:58 pm

I sense David is back on his sabbatical.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Reitlinger Calls BS on the 1.5 million Dead at Majdanek

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:29 pm

Reitlinger (in spite of David crowing about denier “scholars” correcting the death toll at Majdanek) noted the following in 1953:
The circumstances of the Sobibor transport and the final clearance action in November show that the gas chambers set up in Majdanek after Kurt Gerstein’s visit in August of 1942 (see page 152) could not have been adequate for a death camp.
....but the figures used by this commission (referring to the Soviet commission)-which found that a million and a half people had been murdered in the camp-are thoroughly suspect. The impressive crematorium...was only completed in the Autumn of 1943 and was used to eliminate the many mass burials in the camp area. It was not a death factory on Auschwitz lines.
Page 295 footnote

I’m interested in seeing his death tolls for all the camps involved. No spoilers!!!!!!!

:lol:
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:39 pm

That's interesting. Reading your post, it occurs to me that maybe Reitlinger's research/conclusions helped point Hilberg to his 1961 death toll estimate (50,000 Jews murdered at Majdanek). What you've boldfaced (Auschwitz vs Majdanek) is also what I could never get through to Nessie and some others posting in the thread.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:56 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:39 pm

Why would there be a hospital in an extermination camp?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:54 pm

The better question is...why would there be showers in an extermination camp????
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:02 am

As to Majdanek's hospital barracks, they are well covered in the literature on the camp. IIRC a decision was taken to have capacity in hospital barracks for up to 15% of the camp's inmates. There were occasional selections from the hospitals of the most weakened/sick prisoners for gassing. There was a special holding room in field III called Gammelblocks for prisoners selected in this manner to be held before transport to the gas chamber bunker; some of the prisoners held there were killed in this room rather than sent to the gas chambers.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:05 am

Most of the stuff I learned about Majdanek comes from this thread.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:23 am

We should probably pull together a Majdanek bibliography at some point. Not tonight! :)
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:54 am

Yep. Probably need D-H on this as well.

But, as you say, not tonight. I’m far behind on the stuff I want to post on.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Nick Terry » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:05 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:23 am
We should probably pull together a Majdanek bibliography at some point. Not tonight! :)
There is very little, alas, in English on Majdanek.

The museum published Majdanek w dokumentach in 2017, with 300 sources mostly from the camp records, but also factoring in other archives. Commentaries are in Polish, as are some smuggled letters/reports, but the majority of documents are in German, and most are facsimiled, showing some reports that survive only as scraps alongside wholly intact documents - everything from a Liebehenschel telegram notifying the camp that a big contingent of Slovakian Jews was to be expected, through to lists of prisoner work details (including 11 inmates employed at the 'Gaskammer') and proposals for war service cross medals indicating that Majdanek SS NCOs were participating regularly in 'Sonderaktionen'.

A number of these sources are now online at the Arolsen Archives website, since the former ITS Arolsen uploaded about 13 million pages of KZ documents at the end of May. The Majdanek copies and scans are often hard to read, and ITS did not archive every single document about the camp, since the focus was on tracing missing persons who were prisoners - ergo no need for copies of the personnel records of the SS-Totenkopfsturmbann.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:29 am

:wave: Welcome to SSF, Nick Terry. :heh:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:50 am

Nice to see you, NT.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Nick Terry » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:28 am

Thank you!

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:07 am

Well since someone mentioned a "Majdanek bibliography" these are all the books I've skimmed at one point or own:

Kranz, Tomasz. Extermination of Jews at the Majdanek Concentration Camp. Lublin: Państwowe Muzeum na Majdanku, 2007. Print.

Olesiuk, Danuta, and Tomasz Kranz. Letters from Majdanek: Kl Lublin in the Light of Secret Messages. Lublin: Państwowe Muzeum na Majdanku, 2009. Print. (In Polish)

Lenarczyk, Wojciech. Majdanek W Dokumentach. Lublin: Państwowe Muzeum na Majdanku, 2016. Print.

Kranz, Tomasz, Witold Wojtaszko, Anna Surdacka, Aleksandra Szymula, and Małgorzata Zajączkowska. Recovered from the Ashes : Personal Belongings of the Victims of the German Death Camp in Sobibór. Lublin: Państwowe Muzeum na Majdanku, 2018. Print.

Strigler, Mordechai, Frank Beer, and Yechiel Szeintuch. Majdanek: Ein Früher Zeitzeugenbericht Vom Todeslager. , 2016. Print.

Hurwitz, Cipora. Forbidden Strawberries. New Rochelle, N.Y: MultiEducator, 2010. Print.

Marszałek, Józef. Majdanek, the Concentration Camp in Lublin. Warszawa: Interpress, 1986. Print.

Schwindt, Barbara. Das Konzentrations Und Vernichtungslager Majdanek: Funktionswandel Im Kontext Der "endlösung". Würzburg: Königshausen & Neumann, 2005. Print.

Mailänder, Koslov E, and Patricia Szobar. Female Ss Guards and Workaday Violence: The Majdanek Concentration Camp, 1942-1944. , 2015. Print.

I have some old guide books as well, but they are less important.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Nick Terry » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:46 am

That covers the main titles; the only other one to highlight is the 1991 book Majdanek 1941-1944, which sums up Polish research to the end of the Cold War.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:27 pm

I will pull together my list, sometime, I promise. Some quick additions that I've found helpful, going a bit beyond books:

Pressac, "The Deficiencies and Inconsistencies in 'The Leuchter Report'"

Mailänder, "A specialist: the daily work of Erich Muhsfeldt, chief of the crematorium at Majdanek concentration and extermination camp, 1942–44," in Dreyfus & Anstett, Destruction and human remains: Disposal and concealment in genocide and mass violence

USHMM Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933-1945 Vol 1, article on KL Lublin and related camps

Holland, "Negotiating Jewish Victimhood at Majdanek: Reluctant Communists, Political Flux, Nazi Guilt" (MA thesis, University of Illinois)

Düsseldorf court indictment and judgment

Donat, The Holocaust Kingdom (memoir)

Rajca & Wiśniewska, Majdanek Concentration Camp 1983

Wiśniewska & Rajca, Majdanek: the concentration camp of Lublin 1999

Radzik, Zagłada Lubelskiego Getta / The extermination of the Lublin ghetto

Wydanawnicza, Majdanek (photos)

Browning, Ordinary Men (on Erntefest)

Siwek-Ciupak, Majdanek. A historical outline

Wiśnioch, Majdanek: A guide to the historical buildings

Kuwalek & Libionka, They Arrived at the Ghetto... And Went into the Unknown...

Banach, Grudzińska, & Lenarczyk, Prisoners of Majdanek

A few of these may be the “old guide books” which D-H mentioned, which I found useful in dealing with some of the more far-fetched claims made by deniers. I'm missing stuff, I know. It's not like the material is voluminous - but there's enough to have meaningful discussions - it's just that it is buried in dozens and dozens of files and a long file of about 600 typed pages.

I was also thinking of pulling together a list of witnesses whose testimonies are in English, including Shoah Foundation interviews, Boder interviews, etc. And then key sources, like the Polish-Soviet Commission communique and a handful of Nuremberg documents, some other documents that are critical, all also in English. Finally, online resources of various types (video tours, snippets, guides, and so on).

revisionist crap:

Mattogno, Inside the gas chambers

Mattogno & Graf, Concentration camp Majdanek: A historical and technical study
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:19 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:27 pm
A few of these may be the “old guide books” which D-H mentioned, which I found useful in dealing with some of the more far-fetched claims made by deniers.
For anyone interested here are the guide books I was talking about:

KZ Majdanek Report uber das Vernichtungslager und uber den Majdanek-Prozess

Wiśniewska & Rajca, Majdanek: the concentration camp of Lublin

Majdanek by Zofia Murawska-Gryn

I have some new ones as well:

Majdanek: A Guide to the Historical Buildings

Majdanek: A Historical Outline

These two have proven to be the most useful for me. (Both can be found on the Majdanek Museum website.)

Also some people may find this interesting. This book caught my eye and appears to be about coverage of the Auschwitz and Majdanek trials in west Germany:

Horn, Sabine. Erinnerungsbilder: Auschwitz-prozess Und Majdanek-Prozess Im Westdeutschen Fernsehen. Essen: Klartext, 2009. Print.

I also forgot "Yad Vashem Studies" Volume 35:1 (2007) as well!!!! It contains a condensed English translation (“Bookkeeping of Death and Prisoner Mortality at Majdanek”) of Kranz's paper on his death toll estimate.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies