AWARE—AWAreness during REsuscitation—A prospective study

A skeptical look at medical practices
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Shen1986
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AWARE—AWAreness during REsuscitation—A prospective study

Post by Shen1986 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:08 am

AWARE—AWAreness during REsuscitation—A prospective study a skeptical look:

So here is the full study: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

I decided to have a skeptical look at it. So here goes:

1. Problem: People who worked on this study are also believers. You can see the names of Bruce Greyson and Peter Fenwick among them. So again even believers took work in this study:
Sam Parnia, Ken Spearpoint, Gabriele de Vos, Peter Fenwick, Diana Goldberg, Jie Yang, Jiawen Zhu, Katie Baker, Hayley Killingback, Paula McLean, Melanie Wood, A. Maziar Zafari, Neal Dickert, Roland Beisteiner, Fritz Sterz, Michael Berger, Celia Warlow, Siobhan Bullock, Salli Lovett, Russell Metcalfe Smith McPara, Sandra Marti-Navarette, Pam Cushing, Paul Wills, Kayla Harris, Jenny Sutton, Anthony Walmsley, Charles D. Deakin, Paul Little, Mark Farber, Bruce Greyson, Elinor R. Schoenfeld
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

Peter Fenwick:
Fenwick and his wife are co-authors of The Art of Dying, a study of the spiritual needs of near-death patients. The Fenwicks argue that modern medical practices have devalued end-of-life experiences, and call for a more holistic approach to death and dying.[15] In 2003, Fenwick and Sam Parnia appeared in the BBC documentary "The Day I Died". In the documentary Parnia and Fenwick discussed their belief that research from near-death experiences indicates the mind is independent of the brain. According to Susan Blackmore the documentary misled viewers with beliefs that are rejected by the majority of scientists. Blackmore criticized the documentary for biased and "dishonest reporting".[16]

Fenwick and Parnia have claimed that research from NDEs may show the "mind is still there after the brain is dead". The neurologist Michael O'Brien has written "most people would not find it necessary to postulate such a separation between mind and brain to explain the events," and suggested that further research is likely to provide a physical explanation for near-death experiences.[17] Robert Todd Carroll has written that Fenwick has made metaphysical assumptions and dismissed possible psychological and physiological explanations for near-death experiences.[18]
Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Fenwick_(neuropsychologist" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Bruce Greyson, evidence that he is a believer:
Charles Bruce Greyson (born 1946) is a parapsychologist and pseudoscience promoter.

Greyson is a Professor of Psychiatry and the Director of the Division of Perceptual studies at the University of Virginia.[1][2] He is the co-author of the book Irreducible Mind (2007) and co-editor of The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences (2009).[3]

Irreducible Mind proposes that the brain does not create the mind but the mind works independently from the brain, reviving an 18th century form of dualism.[4] Dualism was developed by the fraudulent psychical researcher F. W. H. Myers and William James.[5] Greyson argues for dualism but scientific studies have contradicted this view.[6][7]

Greyson is active in the International Association of Near-Death Studies which continues the work of Raymond Moody, who believed that near-death experiences are a evidence of an afterlife.[8]

Greyson is also associated with the Esalen Institute where he lectured from 1998-2010.[9]
Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bruce_Greyson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. Problem: The interviews were also done after the patient went home. It is quite easy for some of the patients to receive additional information to create a new scenario of their operation after they are home by watching movies, reading about it or even from the staff itself who told them what happened there:
When possible, interviews were completed by a research nurse or physician while the CA survivor was still an inpatient. The interviewers all underwent dedicated training regarding the interview methodology by the study chief/principle investigator. Informed consent was obtained when patients were deemed medically fit to complete an in-person interview prior to discharge. For patients who could not be interviewed during their hospital stay, a telephone interview protocol was established to consent and interview these patients by telephone to minimize losses to follow up. Given the severity of the condition, the study provided for a large proportion of patients being unable to participate due to ill health in the sample size calculations.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

3. Problem: A lot of the interviews took part later on for those interviewed in hospital it was from 3 days to 4 weeks and for the telephone contact it was from 3 months to even 1 year. A lot of time to receive information to shape what happened during the operation:
The study received ethical approval at each participating site prior to the start of data collection. Following advice from the ethics committee, a protocol was implemented to avoid contacting individuals not interviewed during their hospital stay who died after hospital discharge. Death registries and letters to the patients’ doctors requesting permission to contact their patients were implemented to identify patients who either died or should not be contacted. If no objections or concerns were raised and patients were still alive after discharge, a member of the original clinical team sent an introductory letter together with a stamped addressed envelope requesting permission to contact patients for the study who were missed while in hospital. For these patients who agreed to be contacted, a member of the research team, obtained informed consent, and completed data collection via the telephone. However due to the severity of the medical condition (and in particular the differing levels of physical impairment) combined with the requirements set forth by the ethics committee for contacting patients (outlined above), the time to telephone interviews following hospital discharge was between 3 months and 1 year. All in-hospital interviews were carried out prior to discharge. These took place between 3 days and 4 weeks after cardiac arrest depending on the severity of the patients’ critical illness.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

4. Problem: Patients who had visual and auditory awareness were contacted by telephone or in the hospital and later on were asked in a in-depth interview again. This means new information can be added during the interview. Leaving the person with the OBE to add more information or read about these things:
Patients who claimed to have had visual and auditory awareness (category 5 above) whether identified in hospital or during the telephone interview were invited to complete an in-depth interview conducted by the study principal investigator to obtain more details of their experiences.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

5. Problem: The numbers are interesting because not everyone had a NDE. Also they were able only to verify one person who had a OBE but NO ONE SAW THE PICTURES:
Among the 101 patients who completed stage 2 interviews, no differences existed by age or gender. Responses to the NDE scale are summarized in Table 1 and 46 (46%) confirmed having had no recall, awareness or memories. The remaining 55 of 101 patients with perceived awareness or memories (category 2) were subdivided further. Forty-six described memories incompatible with a NDE and without recall of CA events (median NDE score = 2) (IQR = 3) (category 3). The remaining 9 of 101 patients (9%) had experiences compatible with NDE's. Seven (7%) had no auditory or visual recall of CA events (median NDE scale score = 10 (IQR = 4), highest NDE score 22) (category 4). The detailed NDE account from one patient in this group is summarized in Table 2. The other two patients (2%) experienced specific auditory/visual awareness (category 5). Both patients had suffered ventricular fibrillation (VF) in non-acute areas where shelves had not been placed. Their descriptions are summarized in Table 2. Both were contacted for further in-depth interviews to verify their experiences against documented CA events. One was unable to follow up due to ill health.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

6. Problem: The person with the OBE was “conscious” only 3 minutes. Nothing shocking or paranormal. We already know that death is a process and 3 minutes is a small time and he was only clinical dead:
The other, a 57 year old man described the perception of observing events from the top corner of the room and continued to experience a sensation of looking down from above. He accurately described people, sounds, and activities from his resuscitation (Table 2 provides quotes from this interview). His medical records corroborated his accounts and specifically supported his descriptions and the use of an automated external defibrillator (AED). Based on current AED algorithms, this likely corresponded with up to 3 min of conscious awareness during CA and CPR.2
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

7. Problem: Again here it is written that no one saw the pictures:
As both CA events had occurred in non-acute areas without shelves further analysis of the accuracy of VA based on the ability to visualize the images above or below the shelf was not possible. Despite the installation of approximately 1000 shelves across the participating hospitals only 22% of CA events actually took place in the critical and acute medical wards where the shelves had been installed and consequently over 78% of CA events took place in rooms without a shelf.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

8. Problem: The questions are typical yes and no questions. I think this is a flaw:
Question n %
(1) Did you have the impression that everything happened faster or slower than usual? 27 27
(2) Were your thoughts speeded up? 7 7
(3) Did scenes from your past come back to you? 5 5
(4) Did you suddenly seem to understand everything? 6 6
(5) Did you have a feeling of peace or pleasantness? 22 22
(6) Did you have a feeling of joy? 9 9
(7) Did you feel a sense of harmony or unity with the universe? 5 5
(8) Did you see, or feel surrounded by, a brilliant light? 7 7
(9) Were your senses more vivid than usual? 13 13
(10) Did you seem to be aware of things going on that normally should have been out of sight from your actual point of view as if by extrasensory perception? 7 7
(11) Did scenes from the future come to you? 0 0
(12) Did you feel separated from your body? 13 13
(13) Did you seem to enter some other, unearthly world? 7 7
(14) Did you seem to encounter a mystical being or presence, or hear an unidentifiable voice? 8 8
(15) Did you see deceased or religious spirits? 3 3
(16) Did you come to a border or point of no return? 8 8
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

9. Problem: Here is the Category 4 recollection. It is quite nice because the person had a NDE but met with people he did not know. No dead relatives only a crystal city, waters and god:
Category 4 recollections
“I have come back from the other side of life…God sent (me) back, it was not (my) time—(I) had many things to do…(I traveled) through a tunnel toward a very strong light, which didn’t dazzle or hurt (my) eyes…there were other people in the tunnel whom (I) did not recognize. When (I) emerged (I) described a very beautiful crystal city… there was a river that ran through the middle of the city (with) the most crystal clear waters. There were many people, without faces, who were washing in the waters…the people were very beautiful… there was the most beautiful singing…(and I was) moved to tears. (My) next recollection was looking up at a doctor doing chest compressions”.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

10. Problem: Category 5 recollection with the man who had a OBE that one in question:
Category 5 recollections
 Recollection # 1
(Before the cardiac arrest) “I was answering (the nurse), but I could also feel a real hard pressure on my groin. I could feel the pressure, couldn’t feel the pain or anything like that, just real hard pressure, like someone was really pushing down on me. And I was still talking to (the nurse) and then all of a sudden, I wasn’t. I must have (blanked out)….but then I can remember vividly an automated voice saying, “shock the patient, shock the patient,” and with that, up in (the) corner of the room there was a (woman) beckoning me…I can remember thinking to myself, “I can’t get up there”…she beckoned me… I felt that she knew me, I felt that I could trust her, and I felt she was there for a reason and I didn’t know what that was…and the next second, I was up there, looking down at me, the nurse, and another man who had a bald head…I couldn’t see his face but I could see the back of his body. He was quite a chunky fella… He had blue scrubs on, and he had a blue hat, but I could tell he didn’t have any hair, because of where the hat was.
The next thing I remember is waking up on (the) bed. And (the nurse) said to me: “Oh you nodded off…you are back with us now.” Whether she said those words, whether that automated voice really happened, I don’t know…. I can remember feeling quite euphoric…
I know who (the man with the blue had was)…I (didn’t) know his full name, but…he was the man that…(I saw) the next day…I saw this man [come to visit me] and I knew who I had seen the day before.”
Post-script – Medical record review confirmed the use of the AED, the medical team present during the cardiac arrest and the role the identified “man” played in responding to the cardiac arrest.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

The problems with the case:

A. In the first parts he was conscious:
(Before the cardiac arrest) “I was answering (the nurse), but I could also feel a real hard pressure on my groin. I could feel the pressure, couldn’t feel the pain or anything like that, just real hard pressure, like someone was really pushing down on me. And I was still talking to (the nurse) and then all of a sudden, I wasn’t. I must have (blanked out)….
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

B. He only overheard the whole conversation first:
but then I can remember vividly an automated voice saying, “shock the patient, shock the patient,” and with that, up in (the) corner of the room there was a (woman) beckoning me…
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

C. The man who he identified came the next day to him. After such a operation he had to have his memories quite mangled up. So his brain could have connected this into one experience. The brain is lying to us all the time why not now?:
I didn’t know what that was…and the next second, I was up there, looking down at me, the nurse, and another man who had a bald head…I couldn’t see his face but I could see the back of his body. He was quite a chunky fella… He had blue scrubs on, and he had a blue hat, but I could tell he didn’t have any hair, because of where the hat was.
The next thing I remember is waking up on (the) bed. And (the nurse) said to me: “Oh you nodded off…you are back with us now.” Whether she said those words, whether that automated voice really happened, I don’t know…. I can remember feeling quite euphoric…
I know who (the man with the blue had was)…I (didn’t) know his full name, but…he was the man that…(I saw) the next day…I saw this man [come to visit me] and I knew who I had seen the day before.”
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

11. Problem: Here is the second OBE is even less convincing:
 Recollection # 2
“At the beginning, I think, I heard the nurse say ‘dial 444 cardiac arrest’. I felt scared. I was on the ceiling looking down. I saw a nurse that I did not know beforehand who I saw after the event. I could see my body and saw everything at once. I saw my blood pressure being taken whilst the doctor was putting something down my throat. I saw a nurse pumping on my chest…I saw blood gases and blood sugar levels being taken.”
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

A. The problem is here that the patient only overheard 444 dial cardiac arrest:
“At the beginning, I think, I heard the nurse say ‘dial 444 cardiac arrest’. I felt scared. I was on the ceiling looking down.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

Which is a common code and procedure. Here are examples:
In the event of a presumed "cardiac arrest", resuscitative measures must be commenced immediately by members of the nursing staff and any of the medical staff present. The only exception to this is when the patient’s medical records clearly state ‘not for resuscitation’ (See CHW policy “Limiting the Use of Life-Sustaining Treatment”.
On discovering a collapsed person, approach them cautiously in order to ensure your own safety and the safety of the patient. Lay the person flat, shake the shoulder gently, say patient's name (if known) or ask if the person is 'all right' and observe for response.
If patient is unresponsive, press the Emergency / Arrest button.
The "Emergency / Arrest” call button remains activated until sufficient appropriate personnel have responded to an "arrest" call.
If assistance is slow in arriving, leave the patient briefly to collect the resuscitation trolley and return to the patient to commence basic CPR as for single rescuer until assistance arrives.
On hearing the emergency / arrest call, all ward nursing staff should respond.
The first person to pass the resuscitation trolley should collect it and deliver the trolley to the room. (see Appendix 2)
Assign an assistant to dial 444 to summon the hospital arrest team. (See Appendix 1)

If you are in a ward area - dial 444 and state "Send the Arrest Team to …" and state the ward, level and patient location. Eg: "Send the arrest team to Clancy ward, level 3, bed 19". This arrest page should be put out for all arrests, adult or paediatric, which occur in the ward area.
Taken from: http://www.chw.edu.au/prof/pre_employme ... policy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 6

Also here: http://www.schn.health.nsw.gov.au/_poli ... 6-8239.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

B. The rest which he describes without the nurse can be seen in every movie about operations:
I was on the ceiling looking down. I saw a nurse that I did not know beforehand who I saw after the event. I could see my body and saw everything at once. I saw my blood pressure being taken whilst the doctor was putting something down my throat. I saw a nurse pumping on my chest…I saw blood gases and blood sugar levels being taken.”
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

12. Problem: Others had some memories but that could have been dreams and they were even contradicting the pleasant NDEs:
While NDE's provided a quantifiable measure of a patients’ cognitive recollections in relation to CA, using our CA survivor interview transcripts as part of stage 2 interviews, we evaluated the narratives of patients’ memory's without NDE's (NDE scale < 7). Although prior studies had by enlarge focused on the occurrence of NDE's in CA only, however our observation that other cognitive themes aside from NDE's also exist in CA led to an evaluation of the narratives for other specific themes. Narratives were categorized into 7 themes: (1) fear; (2) animals and plants; (3) a bright light; (4) violence or a feeling of being persecuted; (5) deja vu experiences; (6) seeing family; (7) recalling events that likely occurred after recovery from CA. Narratives are presented in Table 3 by theme.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

13. Problem: Here are the experiences of those people. They are quite interesting and shows that the brain can be quite active during the procedure. I think its more nail for the paranormal NDE explanation:
Fear
 “I was terrified. I was told I was going to die and the quickest way was to say the last short word I could remember”
 “Being dragged through deep water with a big ring and I hate swimming—it was horrid”.
 “I felt scared”

Animals and plants
 “All plants, no flowers”.
 “Saw lions and tigers”.

Bright light
 “The sun was shining”
 “Recalled seeing a golden flash of light”

Family
 “Family talking 10 or so. Not being able to talk to them”
 “My family (son, daughter, son-in-law and wife) came”

Being persecuted or experiencing violence
 “Being dragged through deep water”
 “This whole event seemed full of violence and I am not a violent man, it was out of character”.
 “I had to go through a ceremony and … the ceremony was to get burned. There were 4 men with me, whichever lied would die…. I saw men in coffins being buried upright.

Deja vu experiences
 “…experienced a sense of De-ja vu and felt like knew what people were going to do before they did it after the arrest. This lasted about 3 days”

Events occurring after initial recovery from cardiac arrest
 Experienced …“a tooth coming out when tube was removed from my mouth”
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

14. Problem: Even in the paper it is written that people can learn during anesthesia but in the end Parnia jumps to paranormal conclusions like in the media:
The finding that conscious awareness may be present during CA is intriguing and supports other recent studies that have indicated consciousness may be present in patients despite clinically undetectable consciousness.9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 For instance, implicit learning with the absence of explicit recall has been demonstrated in patients with undetectable consciousness,9, 10, 11, 12, 13 while others have demonstrated conscious awareness during persistent vegetative states (PVS).14, 15
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

15. Problem: Even there is a study which confirmed that the brain is active after cardiac arrest but Parnia jumps to his paranormal conclusions:
Although the etiology of awareness during CA is unknown, the results of our study and in particular our verified case of VA suggest it may be dissimilar to awareness during anesthesia. While some investigators have hypothesized there may be a brief surge of electrical activity after cardiac standstill,16
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

16. Problem: This is not complete true anymore:
in contrast to anesthesia typically there is no measurable brain function within seconds after cardiac standstill.17, 18, 19, 20, 21
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

Here is the example:
Researchers have found brain activity beyond a flat line EEG, which they have called Nu-complexes…
Taken from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 180246.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

17. Problem: The financial backing is also quite biased because two organizations are meddling with spirituality and parapsychology:
Financial support

Resuscitation Council (UK), Nour Foundation, Bial Foundation. Researchers worked independent of the funding bodies and the study sponsor. Furthermore, the study sponsor did not participate in study design, analysis and interpretation of results or the writing of the manuscript.
Taken from: http://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)00739-4/fulltext

Nour Foundation is based on the philosophy of Ostad Elahi who is a believer:
Objective Founded in 1985, the Nour Foundation is a public charitable and nongovernmental organization in special consultative status to the United Nations Economic and Social Council. Through a multidisciplinary and integrative approach that blends the sciences and the humanities, the Foundation seeks to study and explore core principles and values that universally promote a greater spirit of mutual understanding, tolerance, and unity among human beings. The conception of the Foundation was inspired by the inclusive philosophy of the late Ostad Elahi, a contemporary thinker, jurist, and musician who devoted the whole of his life to investigating the age-old existential questions of humankind: Who are we? Where have we come from? Why are we here? And where are we headed? Such questions have been discussed for millennia, with as many proposed answers and variations as there are peoples and cultures.
Taken from: http://www.nourfoundation.com/foundation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ostad Elahi here it is written he is a believer:
An influential thinker, jurist, and musician, Ostad Elahi (1895-1974) remained largely unknown to the general public during his lifetime, notwithstanding the publication of several philosophical and metaphysical treatises in his later years. Following the introduction of his life and works on the occasion of his centenary in 1995, however, the simplicity and universality of his philosophy have inspired and resonated within individuals from all backgrounds in search of a greater meaning and purpose to life. Born at the turn of the 20th century in northwestern Iran, Ostad Elahi devoted the whole of his youth to classical mysticism and ascetic practices under the supervision of his father, a well-known figure in the region with a considerable following. At the end of this period, he surmised that the process of spiritual maturation is best developed not in ascetic seclusion, but rather in the midst of society where the challenges and trials of daily life provide a more fertile environment to test the strength of one’s moral character and convictions.
Taken from: http://www.nourfoundation.com/Ostad-Elahi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bial Foundation:
A reference in the support of Research

The BIAL Foundation was created in 1994 by Laboratórios BIAL in conjunction with the Council of Rectors of Portuguese Universities. BIAL’s Foundation mission is to foster the scientific study of the human being from both the physical and spiritual perspectives.

Along the years the BIAL Foundation has developed an important relationship with the scientific community, first in Portugal and after worldwide. Today it is an institution of reference which aims to stimulate new researches that may help people, promote more health and contribute to new milestones to gain access to knowledge.

Among its activities the BIAL Foundation manages the BIAL Award, created in 1984, one of the most important awards in the Health field in Europe. The BIAL Award rewards both the basic and the clinical research distinguishing works of major impact in medical research.

The BIAL Foundation also assigns Scientific Research Scholarships for the study of neurophysiological and mental health in people, arousing the interest of researchers in the areas of Psychophysiology and Parapsychology.
Taken from: http://www.bial.com/en/bial_foundation. ... n.a36.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Conclusion: The whole study has flaws and problems. This is just the top of the iceberg. For me this is quite biased even the funding is biased so I will not go into details because there are already other criticisms of the whole study:

http://web.randi.org/swift/no-this-stud ... fter-death" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://god-knows-what.com/2014/10/08/ne ... ter-death/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So for me this whole study is a disappointment. No one saw the images and the second problem is that the media hype has no real basis. The OBEs were pathetic and the people could have easily overheard everything and construct everything after the operation receiving the information in a normal non-paranormal way. So for me this is NOT proof of a soul. It does NOT even hint a soul. However I acknowledge that the study confirmed at least that it takes time for a person to die and the brain can be quite active during that time.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.