God's commandments are ...

Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
User avatar
kowalskil
Poster
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:17 am
Location: Fort Lee, New Jersey

God's commandments are ...

Post by kowalskil » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:46 pm

Who is the author of Mitzvah [commandments]? asked Rabbi Herman E Schaalman, in (1). According to some people, he wrote, "the authority of the 'commandment' resides in the people;" they claim that mitzvot are the customs created by our sages. Such an answer would be sufficient, he continues, if "Jews were like any other people." Why is it so? In which way are Jews different? Unfortunately, this question is not answered by the Rabbi, to my satisfaction. He refers to the Hebrew language, with which I am not familiar.

But I do know how Spinoza, a 17th century Jewish theologian (2), would answer this question. Spinoza wrote: "By God's direction I mean the fixed and unchanging order of Nature ... so it is the same thing whether we say that all things happen according to Nature's laws or that they are regulated by God's decree and direction." Spinoza would say that people are part of nature, and that desirable ways of behavior, described by sages, were also described by God. Many theological contradictions would disappear if Spinoza's defintion of God were universally accepted. Do you agree?

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)

References
1) "Gates of Mitzvah: A Guide to the Jewish Life Cycle;" edited by Simeon J. Maslin, Central Conference of American Rabbis, New York, 1979
2) Steven Nadler, "Judging Spinoza," The New York Times, Opinion Pages, May 25 2014.
Also in http://opinionator" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/judging-spinoza/
Ludwik Kowalski, author of a free ON-LINE book entitled “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.”

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will they experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with young people, and with potential reviewers. Thank you.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23835
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:42 pm

Everybody that cares wave their left hind leg.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
kennyc
Has No Life
Posts: 12436
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:21 am
Custom Title: The Dank Side of the Moon
Location: Denver, CO

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by kennyc » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:32 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Everybody that cares wave their left hind leg.
Ferguson!
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry - The Bleeding Edge
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23835
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:46 pm

kennyc wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Everybody that cares wave their left hind leg.
Ferguson!
Because llamas.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
digress
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:11 am
Custom Title: doomer

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by digress » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:39 pm

kowalskil wrote:Who is the author of Mitzvah [commandments]? asked Rabbi Herman E Schaalman, in (1). According to some people, he wrote, "the authority of the 'commandment' resides in the people;" they claim that mitzvot are the customs created by our sages. Such an answer would be sufficient, he continues, if "Jews were like any other people." Why is it so? In which way are Jews different? Unfortunately, this question is not answered by the Rabbi, to my satisfaction. He refers to the Hebrew language, with which I am not familiar.

But I do know how Spinoza, a 17th century Jewish theologian (2), would answer this question. Spinoza wrote: "By God's direction I mean the fixed and unchanging order of Nature ... so it is the same thing whether we say that all things happen according to Nature's laws or that they are regulated by God's decree and direction." Spinoza would say that people are part of nature, and that desirable ways of behavior, described by sages, were also described by God. Many theological contradictions would disappear if Spinoza's defintion of God were universally accepted. Do you agree?
No, simply because Spinoza's p.o.v. here does not address theism so any theological contradiction would remain.

Deism is in the business of trying to determine what "god" is. Theism is in the business of trying to determine what "god" wants. For example, had Spinoza said, What god wants is a fixed and unchanging order of nature and is god's decree, your question would then be in the same playing field as the Rabbi.
  God is an idea.  
"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

User avatar
kowalskil
Poster
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:17 am
Location: Fort Lee, New Jersey

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by kowalskil » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:14 pm

Below are different definitions of these two words.

1) Theism is the belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

2) Deism is the teaching that God exists, that he created the universe and everything in it, but that he stopped being involved in the universe.

Ludwik
Ludwik Kowalski, author of a free ON-LINE book entitled “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.”

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will they experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with young people, and with potential reviewers. Thank you.

User avatar
kennyc
Has No Life
Posts: 12436
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:21 am
Custom Title: The Dank Side of the Moon
Location: Denver, CO

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by kennyc » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:16 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
kennyc wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Everybody that cares wave their left hind leg.
Ferguson!
Because llamas.
Thanks Obama!
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry - The Bleeding Edge
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2448
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by Scott Mayers » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:10 pm

I think that Deism was and is still meaning similar to what you state, Kawalskil, but the intentional meaning is to grant the idea of God akin to an unknown variable, of which I think all religious and scientific ideology was originally based anyways. Theology, in contrast, is also distinct in that it defends various interpretations, including Deism where discussed, that relate to any set of theoretical beliefs regarding religious concepts.

The distinction between Deism and all other Theologies is that it doesn't speak on behalf of any details with regards to any particular God or gods except to place a presumed faith that there is some unknown factor to reality which places all living things in some indeterminately 'special' place.

The distinction between Deism and Science is only to distinguish that one's particular faith in reference to truth or facts lies in a hope that the warm/cold realities of nature itself is really warm underneath it all.

Note that the ancient origins of some significant terms in relation to both nature and religion like, "nature", "church", and "torah", all come from a common source within Egyptian/African languages and hints at how we evolved to eventually adapt distinct views and other related terms in a duality between a Deistic/Naturalistic understanding of the world.

The original words used to describe these concepts originated first with the idea of throwing things out there as a javelin in a hunt. [Jora, chora] The words relating to such were then adapted to describe spoken words in kind as those things 'thrown out there' in force as an adjective such as one's spoken words by leaders or authorities of such powers, especially since it took the force of such legitimizing tools used to speak formal commandments of laws in stone with more permanence than usual. Thus the scribes who placed permanent records, especially in stone, represented the power of the words or commandments of any and all authorities. [n' chora, for example, meaning that which is permanently spoken by those like scribes] This is the root of the terms "nature", "(t)orah", and even "(ch)oral".

As such most theological inspection at varying times referred to the comparative 'force' of God as natural in almost indistinct ways from how we reference nature within a nonreligious, scientific way. What they all relate to each other is the common idea of that the environment forces or commands reality from the perspective irreverent of our personal perspectives, wishes or desires, even if they can relatively appeal to some individuals over others. To those who prefer these commands to have been placed by something with a favored value to the emotionally good in us egotistically and not the bad, this source is labeled God (=good) while those with more of a realistic view to see the good and the bad as the normal nature of our environment, will tend to look at the source of nature as being unrelated to our preferential favors to desire goodness. I think that Deism, is a type of compromised position, if it is one at all, that simply may be just leaving the good/bad values as indeterminate. As such, for those culturally still valuing the ideas of religion with exception to certainty would tend to be Deists.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
digress
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 2:11 am
Custom Title: doomer

Re: God's commandments are ...

Post by digress » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:45 am

kowalskil wrote:Below are different definitions of these two words.

1) Theism is the belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in one god as creator of the universe, intervening in it and sustaining a personal relation to his creatures.

2) Deism is the teaching that God exists, that he created the universe and everything in it, but that he stopped being involved in the universe.

Ludwik
Exactly. Theism focuses on intervention or- what god wants done. And deism dismisses intervention focusing on what god is.

Philosophizing god spoke commandments that man must adhere to is not the same as philosophizing gods commandment exists within nature. In other words, if theologians listened to Spinoza they would be out of a job.
  God is an idea.  
"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia