Why Gorbachev?

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kowalskil
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Why Gorbachev?

Post by kowalskil » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:36 am

Why Gorbachev?

Gorbachev is of the same age as I am. Several days ago I read a post (on a Russian forum) in which he was accused of being responsible for the disintegration of the Soviet Union. In my opinion the country disintegrated spontaneously, after the truth about dark sides of Stalinism became known. Yes, Gorbachev, the leader of the Soviet Communist Party, did contribute to the fall, by promoting the policy of "glasnost," that is by allowing truth to be known. But reforms introduced by the President of the Soviet Union, Yeltsyn, were equally important. The same can be said about Gorbachev's predecessor Khrushchev, about Solzhenitsyn, Shalamow and Pasternak, whose books were allowed to be published, and about authors of many other documents.

Karl Marx would say that focusing on characters of exceptional individuals, such as Lenin, Stalin and Gorbachev, is not sufficient. He would most probably try to identify mistkes made by those who managed the country's economy, focusing on nationalization of means of production, collectivisation of agriculture, and on dealing with some national aspirations.

Ludwik Kowalski, Ludwik Kowalski

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P.S.
A Russian author wrote:
"Gorbachev must be put on trial! This diversionary enemy worked for western intelligence services."
"Судить Горбачёва необходимо! Это враг, диверсант который работал на западную разведку!"
Ludwik Kowalski, author of a free ON-LINE book entitled “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.”

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will they experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with young people, and with potential reviewers. Thank you.

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Gord » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:21 am

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:14 am

kowalskil wrote:Gorbachev is of the same age as I am. Several days ago I read a post (on a Russian forum) in which he was accused of being responsible for the disintegration of the Soviet Union. In my opinion the country disintegrated spontaneously, after the truth about dark sides of Stalinism became known.


Yet amazingly, Americans claim they bankrupted the old Soviet Union during the 80's arms race (before the cost of arms & warfare almost bankrupted America during the GFC, fifteen years later)

Rather than believe all this crap, it would be better if everyone read some basic history books. The Soviet Union did not "disintegrate" as it all still there chugging along under new names and a conversion from centralised command economy to political autonomy. It is a natural geographic alliance, like the old Hanseatic trading leagues. The bizarre concept that eastern European geographic realities can be outweighed by the political aspirations of Pentagon "hawks" shows how stupid some people can be.

kowalskil wrote:Yes, Gorbachev, the leader of the Soviet Communist Party, did contribute to the fall, by promoting the policy of "glasnost," that is by allowing truth to be known.
CPSU Chairman, Yuri Andropov, and Mikhail Suslov, personally groomed Gorbachev. They are the people who started to introduce reform. Yuri Andropov did so when he was still head of the KGB by openly investigating and replacing corrupt officials. The fact that the Central Committee of the CPSU voted Gorbachev as General Secretary, suggests the Russian communist party was also in favour of massive reform.
kowalskil wrote:But reforms introduced by the President of the Soviet Union, Yeltsyn, were equally important.
Yelstzyn was a drunken fool, who stood on a tank outside the Russian Duma at the right time, amazingly without falling off due to being blind drunk. The GRU ( Russian military intelligence service of the Red Army) would not let him in their buildings for the entire time he was president as he was a security risk).
kowalskil wrote:The same can be said about Gorbachev's predecessor Khrushchev, about Solzhenitsyn, Shalamow and Pasternak, whose books were allowed to be published, and about authors of many other documents.
My god...are you saying all these Russian revolutionaries. from a 150 year tradition of ongoing revolutionary reform are revolutionary?. Do you even have a clue who Peter the Great is and his radical reforms? We are talking about Russian radical thought and literature which spans centuries.
kowalskil wrote: Karl Marx would say that focusing on characters of exceptional individuals, such as Lenin, Stalin and Gorbachev, is not sufficient.
Karl Marx wouldn't give a rat's arse about individuals. Das Kapital was a 19th century predictive economics analysis that had no concept of franked dividends, options trading, statutory worker's rights and so on. If Karl Marx was alive today he would probably be pleased that the worst aspects of 19th century raw capitalism have been removed by general consensus under a variety of economic structures.
kowalskil wrote: "Судить Горбачёва необходимо! Это враг, диверсант который работал на западную разведку!"
Complete rubbish. The most aggressive activities of the KGB's division X, plus the deep penetration of the FBI ( Robert Hanssen )and CIA (Aldrich Ames) took place under Gorbachev. Смерть шпионам

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Flash » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:14 am

Kowalskil likes to create his own version of history that conforms to all of his kneejerk prejudices. The sociopathic russophobia is a national sport in Poland.
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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:15 am

Flash wrote:Kowalskil likes to create his own version of history that conforms to all of his kneejerk prejudices. The sociopathic russophobia is a national sport in Poland.
What's annoying is that he's not in Poland. He couldn't care less about Poland. He got tenure at a USA university in 1964 for handing over Warsaw Pact university physics papers. The cold war ended but all he knows how to do is spread 1960's anti-communist propaganda, even though Russia isn't communist anymore.

There are lots of these legacy, side swapping, individuals floating around the planet. During the Yugoslavian campaign, Australia gave various jobs to the Bosnian ( Serbian) minister for internal affairs to "swap sides" as he witnessed the mass executions. He was a "hero" for ten years and then everyone lost interest in him. He then pretended to be a psychiatrist to regain fame. He gave my father's name as a reference after my father had his first stroke. What a bastard.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/archive ... 5f8a2a0388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Flash » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:50 am

With guys like Kowalskil on it's side, no wonder the communism has, as they fashionably say in the right wing circles, been swept into the dustbin of history. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by kowalskil » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:01 pm

I like the video:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

very much. It is worth sharing this link with others.

Ludwik
Ludwik Kowalski, author of a free ON-LINE book entitled “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.”

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a testimony based on a diary kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

The more people know about proletarian dictatorship the less likely will they experience is. Please share the link with those who might be interested, especially with young people, and with potential reviewers. Thank you.

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:07 am

kowalskil wrote:I like the video: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The video claims socialism is an economic and political system. That is an extremely narrow definition which ignores cultural, family household unit and non monetary examples of socialism. Socialism is not the opposite of capitalism.

In economic theory, pure capitalism actually "averages out" worker's remuneration in the long run. It does not matter who owns the capital. ( Marx was before stock markets). It is inherent problems in capitalism, such as monopolies, oligopolies, corruption, self interested political party interference and so forth that hinder capitalism from reaching labour vs reward equilibriums. However, as capitalism inspires "efficiency" the average worker has still benefited as "all workers" quality of living has improved. My duty is to all my socialist friends and if capitalism has benefited them the most, then moderate capitalism should remain in place.

The video says there should be a compromise. There already is a compromise.

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Major Malfunction » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:00 am

Social democracy with a regulated laissez-faire economy.
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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Enquiring Minds » Wed May 20, 2015 9:10 am

kowalskil wrote:Why Gorbachev? In my opinion the country disintegrated spontaneously, after the truth about dark sides of Stalinism became known.
Dark sides of Stalinism have always been known to the West since the man made Ukrainian famine or holodomor in 1932-33 http://www.holodomor.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But it was hushed up not only in USSR but also during World War 2 where if anyone publicly questioned the alliance with Stalin in Allied countries you were smeared as a "nazi sympathiser" or "enemy fifth columnist".
Gorbachev did admit that the Soviet Union was responsible for the Katyn massacre after that country had accused the Germans for 50 years of this crime - http://www.katyn.org.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:24 pm

kowalskil wrote:Why Gorbachev?

Gorbachev is of the same age as I am. Several days ago I read a post (on a Russian forum) in which he was accused of being responsible for the disintegration of the Soviet Union. In my opinion the country disintegrated spontaneously, after the truth about dark sides of Stalinism became known.
became known internally by Krutchev (Secret Speech). If you mean "dark sides of Stalinism became known" by the general public, it's because of Gorbachev..
Yes, Gorbachev, the leader of the Soviet Communist Party, did contribute to the fall, by promoting the policy of "glasnost," that is by allowing truth to be known.
Exactly! So, your first point?
But reforms introduced by the President of the Soviet Union, Yeltsyn, were equally important.
ehhhhhh. He did gave the final blow ("the signature"). It was a sort of a coup d'etat, after the real coup d'etat, the communist hardliners failed. Remember? "Read This!!!"
The same can be said about Gorbachev's predecessor Khrushchev,
??? aren't you missing some along the way? Brejnev, Andropov and some other guy? ok, maybe you mean, "one of his predecessors"
about Solzhenitsyn, Shalamow and Pasternak, whose books were allowed to be published, and about authors of many other documents.
Not really "the same". Glasnost and perestroika were much, much deeper. And liberating
Karl Marx would say that focusing on characters of exceptional individuals, such as Lenin, Stalin and Gorbachev, is not sufficient. He would most probably try to identify mistkes made by those who managed the country's economy, focusing on nationalization of means of production, collectivisation of agriculture, and on dealing with some national aspirations.
Kowalski, you're forgetting very important bits of history: the eastern europe liberation and the baltic countries struggle (think Lithuania)
I agree with you when you seem to remove responsability from Gorbachev's shoulder. It happened. But he opened the way. Without his reforms, who knows what would have happen? Certainly not the same. Then it's history. The West mainly watched and was as surprised as everyone else
Ludwik Kowalski, Ludwik Kowalski

http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P.S.
A Russian author wrote:
"Gorbachev must be put on trial! This diversionary enemy worked for western intelligence services."
"Судить Горбачёва необходимо! Это враг, диверсант который работал на западную разведку!"

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:36 am

Who killed the Soviet Union?
Or ended the Cold War?
Or finally beat the Soviet Union?
(choose the description you like best)

I've heard all of these mentioned as The One Man.
Gorbachev
Reagan
Pope John Paul II

I'm highly dubious of any explanation that pins it all on one guy, but the closest I'd get to that is to mention Lech Walesa before any of those others.
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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:02 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote: I'm highly dubious of any explanation that pins it all on one guy, but the closest I'd get to that is to mention Lech Walesa before any of those others.
Actually a good person who contributed to the change-over, would be Yuri Andropov. Ryzhkov and Gorbachev were promoted by Andropov and first identified the "long run" economic problems. Although Andropov was for the crushing of the anti-communist revolutions in other Warsaw Pact republics, he didn't lift a finger against Solidarity, in the very early 80's. However Andropov was quite sick during this period. It's only because Chernenko was chairman of the CPSU between them that we don't see a continuous policy character from the CPSU.

I think that because Andropov was head of the KGB for so long that he did become a pragmatic person simply by observing western economics. If he was a socialist, which he probably was at heat, then he knew moderate capitalism was going to improve quality of life for Russian people. ( Additionally communism couldn't afford the cost of modern weaponry.)

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by supervitor » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:42 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Who killed the Soviet Union?
Or ended the Cold War?
Or finally beat the Soviet Union?
(choose the description you like best)

I've heard all of these mentioned as The One Man.
Gorbachev
Reagan
Pope John Paul II

I'm highly dubious of any explanation that pins it all on one guy, but the closest I'd get to that is to mention Lech Walesa before any of those others.
I would say History killed the Soviet Union. I would say Lech Walesa (like any of the Polish workers) is part of history

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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:37 am

Imvho centralized economic decision-making that replaced supply and demand pricing of materials and labor killed the Soviet Union, nationalization of the means of production, as the op said.
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Re: Why Gorbachev?

Post by supervitor » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:59 am

Tom-Palven wrote:Imvho centralized economic decision-making that replaced supply and demand pricing of materials and labor killed the Soviet Union, nationalization of the means of production, as the op said.
You're drifting again, Tom-Palven.
Tell me, if that's "the issue", why did it take 75 years or so of centralized economy to "kill" te Union?

Such a simplistic world view, Tom. I can recommend you some new books to broaden your perspectives