Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

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Tom Palven
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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:35 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:41 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:You know.............that is a "fair" comment. Now: do the rest of the equation: whats the alternative?
Tom Palven is simply regurgitating Libertarian propaganda. He can't form his own view.

"The NAP (non-aggression principle) is considered by some to be a defining principle of natural-rights libertarianism."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

It is simply another fuzzy buzzword that has no meaning. That's why there are aren't any Libertarian politicians left in the USA.
So, is it fair to assume that you are in favor of military drafts, and want to explain this position, or are you hesitant in voicing your own opinions and content with just attacking my views?

A coherent and relevant post from you without pictures of park rangers would be thrilling.

Oh, I must inject some humor for bobbo.

Here we go:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:25 pm

Now: do the rest of the equation: whats the alternative? /////// If you don't have opinions you can support on your own.....what should anyone assume?????????

You miss the point entirely: I SAID: you FAIL to appreciate humor. That is in NO WAY a request, nor appreciation, of you mindlessly inserting emojis THAT WITH ANY "appreciation of what is posted at all" you would have recognized it only introduces ambiguity..

Hone your skills.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:49 pm

Tom Palven wrote:So, is it fair to assume that you are in favor of military drafts
No. When did I ever say that?

You joined the reserves, you idiot. I have never touched a weapon.

I knew all the weapons reduction treaties. You didn't know any of them.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:49 pm
Tom Palven wrote:So, is it fair to assume that you are in favor of military drafts
No. When did I ever say that?


I never thought for a moment that you would attempt to explain your own position on military drafts, and don't believe that you ever will in a coherent way!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(Btw, bobbo, the alternative to having a military draft is not having a military draft. It's not rocket science.)
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:18 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:01 am

(Btw, bobbo, the alternative to having a military draft is not having a military draft. It's not rocket science.)
Well.................actually..................there ARE rockets involved. You just have to recognize the issue is not just one layer only of tissue thin inadequate analysis. What happens to National Security when you can't pay enough to attract a mercenary or volunteer force? At your option (as if) we can go even deeper.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:20 am

Tom Palven wrote:So, is it fair to assume that you are in favor of military drafts
Matthew Ellard wrote:No. When did I ever say that? You joined the reserves, whereas I have never touched a weapon
:lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:I never thought for a moment....
We already knew that you never thought about anything for a moment. :lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:I never thought for a moment that you would attempt to explain your own position on military drafts, and don't believe that you ever will in a coherent way!
You are retarded right? I don't support military drafts as they reduce GDP and tax revenue and modern warfare isn't based on manpower anymore, but rather expensive technology. However that's too complex for you to follow as you are a senile 75 year old forest ranger. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Your turn
Define your "Deep State" conspiracy and the evidence that supports your claim.......
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:20 am
I don't support military drafts as they reduce GDP and tax revenue and modern warfare isn't based on manpower anymore, but rather expensive technology.
I also don't "support" military drafts..........assuming a context in which manpower is being met? As to no need for bodies on the ground in favor of "high tech".......seems to me I regularly read negative criticism about USA intelligence AND military effectiveness being downgraded BECAUSE OF over reliance on high tech. You need bodies to occupy land, air cover to protect them. Course....the deeper issue is USA does not need to be occupying foreign land either, so its all about what conditions you assume?

One way to avoid the "need" for bodies on the ground is having someone like Assange tell the truth about what atrocities are being committed in our name so as to cause withdrawal of troops resulting in the lack of need for them and then the military can be staffed by white shirt pocket protecting tv monitoring nerds. The Oceans will protect us...............
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:30 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: I also don't "support" military drafts..........assuming a context in which manpower is being met? As to no need for bodies on the ground in favor of "high tech".......seems to me I regularly read negative criticism about USA intelligence AND military effectiveness being downgraded BECAUSE OF over reliance on high tech. You need bodies to occupy land, air cover to protect them. Course....the deeper issue is USA does not need to be occupying foreign land either, so its all about what conditions you assume?
During WWII the German Wehrmacht relied on conscript manpower and horses. To fix a road to allow passage, 100 German soldiers would go out there with spades and so on and fix the roads. The USA used three blokes and a bulldozer. as it had a strong economy. :D

The problem is that if you use conscripts you have to adjust your entire "hardware" for short term conscripts, with low training. This is why the Russians are converting to a professional army and ending conscription. The reason Russia is rolling out new complex tanks, weapons and technology is because their old style T-72's and so on are "simple" and not effective against other professional armies like the USA. This is one of the reasons the Russians have been distracting with election interference and small arms activities because they are currently at their weakest. Today as the new equipment rolls out we will see Russia calm down and concentrate back on economics and GDP growth in Europe where Russia has effectively removed the UK's and USA's influence.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:One way to avoid the "need" for bodies on the ground is having someone like Assange tell the truth about ........
Assange didn't tell the truth about anything. Wikileaks is Russian controlled in Iceland and published USA, UK and allied information stolen by Russian GRU officers. Assange was a "cut out" a "puppet" , "a Lord Haw Haw". Assange had no say in what was or was not published. He hasn't had control for almost seven years. :lol:

2008 Russian military reforms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Russ ... ary_reform


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Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:30 am
Assange didn't tell the truth about anything. Wikileaks is Russian controlled in Iceland and published USA, UK and allied information stolen by Russian GRU officers. Assange was a "cut out" a "puppet" , "a Lord Haw Haw". Assange had no say in what was or was not published.
Wow, you ASIS guys know eveything.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:30 am
During WWII the German Wehrmacht relied on conscript manpower and horses. To fix a road to allow passage, 100 German soldiers would go out there with spades and so on and fix the roads. The USA used three blokes and a bulldozer. as it had a strong economy. [/color] :D
Ummm...you are only confirming what I said: USA had to have three blokes.

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:30 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:One way to avoid the "need" for bodies on the ground is having someone like Assange tell the truth about ........
Assange didn't tell the truth about anything.
Where was the lie in publishing Manning's leaked video regarding the wanton murder of civilians and rescue workers in Iraq? The detailed reports on US and Iraqi groundless political arrests and torture??? Really Matt: you really shouldn't take your concerns to such farcical absolutist extremes. It only makes YOU look bad. As stated, I don't much care about Russian involvement with Wikileaks as long as info like Mannings "gets out." I have read your claimed Russian control is entirely bogus....manufactured by USA to get Assange...........You Know: the equal and opposite effort you claim is going on. How are we peons to know??? BUT, I can easily accept that some think the Russians have too much influence. Easy to meet you that far........because I don't care. See the benefit of being rational?

Say Matt: ever hear of Google?? Try (What has wikileaks revealed). 5 Million hits. Who should I believe?? They are all false including the video and audio we have all seen? Just stop it.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:10 am

Tom Palven wrote: Wow, you ASIS guys know eveything.
Australians even know how to spell basic words like "everything". Home schooling didn't really work for you, did it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:18 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Ummm...you are only confirming what I said: USA had to have three blokes.
.....and a bulldozer. You missed my point again. The Germans had to use 100 blokes with shovels.

bobbo the pragmatist wrote: Where was the lie in publishing Manning's leaked video regarding the wanton murder of civilians and rescue workers in Iraq?
Assange didn't publish it. Wikileaks did. Why are you guys unable to comprehend that basic fact. Assange didn't control Wikileaks.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Say Matt: ever hear of Google??
Yes. You go look up google and tell me how Assange controlled Wikileaks. Are you claiming Assange read all 1.5 million documents that Snowden sold to Russia and Russia posted on Wikileaks before Snowden defected to Russia? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:13 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:18 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Ummm...you are only confirming what I said: USA had to have three blokes.
.....and a bulldozer. You missed my point again. The Germans had to use 100 blokes with shovels.
I didn't miss your "point" at all...............rather..........I refused to chase your straw man out into the fields. THE POINT WAS: what is a nation to do when it requires MANPOWER vis a vis issues of Involuntary Draft versus other recruitment strategies/public policy etc. Your own expertise may heavily rely on Russia and the Germans..........but very few issues of other note are. Involuntary DRAFT is about raising manpower. The fact you need more men if your don't have a bulldozer...........is BS misdirection. You do that alot. My interest: do you do that on purpose as some kind of sick twisted rhetorical device, Or, are you just that sick and twisted you don't even see it? As stated: in both instances: Stop.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:18 am
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: Where was the lie in publishing Manning's leaked video regarding the wanton murder of civilians and rescue workers in Iraq?
Assange didn't publish it. Wikileaks did. Why are you guys unable to comprehend that basic fact. Assange didn't control Wikileaks.
Well.....you are right. I do equate wikileaks with Assange. Name and connect the dots for me if you will then: why do you want Asssange to be put on trial for what wikileaks published if Assange didn't control wikileaks?

///////////// ........................ huh?..............................//////////////////////////

I'll wait for your explanation, but it appears you argue as if brain damaged: unable to hold onto your basic premise. Sad to see that.........but, I will wait.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:18 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Say Matt: ever hear of Google??
Yes. You go look up google and tell me how Assange controlled Wikileaks. Are you claiming Assange read all 1.5 million documents that Snowden sold to Russia and Russia posted on Wikileaks before Snowden defected to Russia? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I recall one report that Assange, who was not controlling wikileaks at the time (sic--?) and yet was being represented as the Founder and CEO of the group by every news agency at the time, that wikileaks provided the information to "reputable news sources" so that they could "vet" the information according to their own standards?.....Then of course they did publish bits on their own.

Given the general equating of Assange with Wikileaks.........I think it is fair for you to provide the links to any info that he was not..........and then... why he should be prosecuted for what wikileaks did.

Hint: it might be in those sealed court filings you have access to.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:22 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: .....and a bulldozer. You missed my point again. The Germans had to use 100 blokes with shovels.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: I didn't miss your "point" at all...............rather..........I refused to chase your straw man out into the fields.
What strawman? Please explain. :lol: :lol:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: THE POINT WAS: what is a nation to do when it requires MANPOWER vis a vis issues of Involuntary Draft versus other recruitment strategies/public policy etc.
It uses money to pay for trained soldiers. That's why that's called a "professional" army. Didn't you know? :lol: :lol:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Your own expertise may heavily rely on Russia and the Germans.
Nope. "Economics".
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: ......but very few issues of other note are. Involuntary DRAFT is about raising manpower.
I already explained that a conscript army is geared to low tech equipment. I gave you the example of the Russian army converting from conscript to professional to use high tech. You can't destroy modern tanks with lots of blokes. Didn't you understand what I wrote again?
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:The fact you need more men if your don't have a bulldozer...........is BS misdirection.
Errr....No it's not. That's most countries all converted to professional armies and dumped drafts. In Europe "national service" now includes working in hospitals.
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: Where was the lie in publishing Manning's leaked video regarding the wanton murder of civilians and rescue workers in Iraq?
Assange didn't publish it. Wikileaks did. Why are you guys unable to comprehend that basic fact. Assange didn't control Wikileaks. Assange did not read 1.5 million documents. [/quote]
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: Well.....you are right. I do equate wikileaks with Assange. Name and connect the dots for me if you will then: why do you want Asssange to be put on trial for what wikileaks published if Assange didn't control wikileaks?
He facilitated the Russians using Wikileaks and directly stated the Russian were not involved, when they were. ........just like Lord Haw Haw did for the Japanese. I have said this many times and you still can't grasp the concept.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Are you claiming Assange read all 1.5 million documents that Snowden sold to Russia and Russia posted on Wikileaks before Snowden defected to Russia?
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: I recall one report that Assange, who was not controlling wikileaks at the time (sic--?) and yet was being represented as the Founder and CEO of the group by every news agency at the time, that wikileaks provided the information to "reputable news sources" so that they could "vet" the information according to their own standards?.....Then of course they did publish bits on their own.
So who are you claiming "fact checked" the 1.5 million documents that the GRU published on Wikileaks and what did they compare the documents to.....? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:22 am
Matthew Ellard wrote: .....and a bulldozer. You missed my point again. The Germans had to use 100 blokes with shovels.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: I didn't miss your "point" at all...............rather..........I refused to chase your straw man out into the fields.
What strawman? Please explain. :lol: :lol:
I was going to ask you if you made any distinction between a Straw Man Argument and the Red Herring Assertion. Lots of overlap if they aren't basically the same thing? The issue on the table centers on the advisability/appropriateness/justification/use of an involuntary draft to raise an army for National Defense? As such, it is IRRELEVANT and therefore a Straw Man or a Red Herring to make distinctions between what Germany and the USA may have done in WW2.

My point is very simple and undeniable: if you can't raise whatever manpower you determine you need via "voluntary" mechanisms, then it seems to me you either do your best with what you have...........or..........you start a draft and deal with the problems that inherently creates. Those are alternatives to simply giving up and inviting your enemy in.....and THAT does not happen very often. Can we think of a case where that happened? so........its 2018 not 1943. Thats what I mean.

xxxxxxxxxxx
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:22 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: ......but very few issues of other note are. Involuntary DRAFT is about raising manpower.
I already explained that a conscript army is geared to low tech equipment. I gave you the example of the Russian army converting from conscript to professional to use high tech. You can't destroy modern tanks with lots of blokes. Didn't you understand what I wrote again?
Drafts are designed for whatever the determined need is. I was subject to being drafted (so I volunteered for the all volunteer Air Force===Ha, ha!!!) and spent one year studying aviation/weather/mechanics in order to fly airplanes including the OV-10 known as "The Flying Tank Buster." I met quite a few "Flight Surgeons" grousing they should be in private practice making millions rather than getting "drafted" to serve as medical officers. Again: not low tech. ((To be fair, I think they weren't "drafted" either as much as offered free education on the agreement to serve four years after medical school graduation..............but if they screwed up in any way: they were subject to induction and carrying a rifle in the Deep Muddy==>same as me if I flunked out of flight schoo. "Voluntary" has so many nuances.)) So........your example again of WW2 is completely inappropriate. You do that alot. Stop it.

xxxxxxxxxxx
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:22 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:The fact you need more men if your don't have a bulldozer...........is BS misdirection.
Errr....No it's not. That's most countries all converted to professional armies and dumped drafts. In Europe "national service" now includes working in hospitals.
Yes....automation/robots/AI is reducing the need for cannon fodder for all modern armies. You aren't including those armies/rebel forces that go into a village and shoot everyone that doesn't volunteer to join up. Its a conditional statement: what are your options IF you need men and they won't volunteer? Other than shooting a few to motivate the rest, most "societies" accept an involuntary draft washed down with the proper amount of lies and propaganda.

xxxxxxxxxxx
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:22 am
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: Where was the lie in publishing Manning's leaked video regarding the wanton murder of civilians and rescue workers in Iraq?
Assange didn't publish it. Wikileaks did. Why are you guys unable to comprehend that basic fact. Assange didn't control Wikileaks. Assange did not read 1.5 million documents.
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: Well.....you are right. I do equate wikileaks with Assange. Name and connect the dots for me if you will then: why do you want Asssange to be put on trial for what wikileaks published if Assange didn't control wikileaks?
He facilitated the Russians using Wikileaks and directly stated the Russian were not involved, when they were. ........just like Lord Haw Haw did for the Japanese. I have said this many times and you still can't grasp the concept.
So weak. Your position is Assange did not control wikileaks and therefore he did not publish the Manning leaks but......But......BUT.......BUT.... "he facilitated the Russians using Wikileaks...". total BS. Not even up to an attempt to manipulate. Just silly mindless word malfeasance.

......................and you totally avoid how it is that Assange is under sealed indictment for what Wikileaks Published. Evidently, whatever distinction word game you want to play is being ignored by the USA as well.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:22 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:Are you claiming Assange read all 1.5 million documents that Snowden sold to Russia and Russia posted on Wikileaks before Snowden defected to Russia?
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: I recall one report that Assange, who was not controlling wikileaks at the time (sic--?) and yet was being represented as the Founder and CEO of the group by every news agency at the time, that wikileaks provided the information to "reputable news sources" so that they could "vet" the information according to their own standards?.....Then of course they did publish bits on their own.
So who are you claiming "fact checked" the 1.5 million documents that the GRU published on Wikileaks and what did they compare the documents to.....? :lol: :lol: :lol:
More gibberish. Assange didn't publish anything but Wikileaks did?........NO........Its the GRU that published "on" Wikileaks. You are one confused Mess Matthew. Rank confusion/obfuscation between the role of a SOURCE and the role of a Publisher.

Buy a dictionary.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:22 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:Are you claiming Assange read all 1.5 million documents that Snowden sold to Russia and Russia posted on Wikileaks before Snowden defected to Russia?
bobbo the pragmatist wrote: I recall one report that Assange, who was not controlling wikileaks at the time (sic--?) and yet was being represented as the Founder and CEO of the group by every news agency at the time, that wikileaks provided the information to "reputable news sources" so that they could "vet" the information according to their own standards?.....Then of course they did publish bits on their own.
So who are you claiming "fact checked" the 1.5 million documents that the GRU published on Wikileaks and what did they compare the documents to.....? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I made no such claim........sorry to have taken a few steps into your fallow field of misdirection. I was only responding your first raising of this irrelevant point. I do firmly recall Assange saying he had not read all the material, that AS STATED, he merely released it to "reputable news sources" knowing that THEY would review the material and publish what they thought was appropriate. Actually....kind of makes me wonder if wikileaks actually "published" anything at all as opposed to "made it available" to "reputable news sources". Looks like some nuance there? Those "reputable news sources" were New York Times, The Guardian, NOT the Post IIRC...xxxxxxxxxxxxxxokay==>worth a quick Google: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/worl ... rnote.html //// a short good read. Everything "co-published" with feedback regarding actual sensitive material.

Publishers are not required to proof the allegations in sourced documents. They do as a matter of their own credibility but that is not the legal requirment. Its what a "free marketplace of Ideas" is all about.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:48 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I was going to ask you if you made any distinction between a Straw Man Argument and the Red Herring Assertion.
As I did neither, I'm fairly sure you don't know what either means. Show me where I made a strawman argument.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: As such, it is IRRELEVANT and therefore a Straw Man or a Red Herring to make distinctions between what Germany and the USA may have done in WW2.
No. I clearly stated that draft reduces GDP and tax revenue and thus Germany did not have the ability to field bulldozers, and relied more on manpower, which I gave as a clear example. You didn't have the brains to understand.

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:29 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:48 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I was going to ask you if you made any distinction between a Straw Man Argument and the Red Herring Assertion.
As I did neither, I'm fairly sure you don't know what either means. Show me where I made a strawman argument.
Bulldozer.


Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:48 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: As such, it is IRRELEVANT and therefore a Straw Man or a Red Herring to make distinctions between what Germany and the USA may have done in WW2.
No. I clearly stated that draft reduces GDP and tax revenue and thus Germany did not have the ability to field bulldozers, and relied more on manpower, which I gave as a clear example. You didn't have the brains to understand.
The relevant point you continue to miss is that the bulldozer still requires MANPOWER to run it/to win a war/to defend yourself against enemies.

What would YOU do as a Nation State if totally voluntary incentives did not produce any bulldozer drivers?
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:31 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: The relevant point you continue to miss is that the bulldozer still requires MANPOWER to run it/to win a war/to defend yourself against enemies.
You idiot. The bulldozer needs a production base and tax revenue that can make and afford bulldozers. Germany didn't have bulldozers because it couldn't afford them. It had drafted so many men that there was no tax revenue or production. That's why Germany had to import 13,000,000 slave labour workers.

USA 43,000 M4 Sherman Tanks"
Germany 5,500 Panther tanks

Read Albert Speer's book. He informed Hitler in 1944 that Hitler could either have an army or weapons but could not have both as the draft had eliminated production and tax revenue.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:34 am

The relevant point you continue to miss is that the bulldozer still requires MANPOWER to run it/to win a war/to defend yourself against enemies.
What would YOU do as a Nation State if totally voluntary incentives did not produce any bulldozer drivers?

I don't think telling the invading force to read Albert Speers book would meet your existential concerns.....................
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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:03 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatis wrote:The relevant point you continue to miss is that the bulldozer still requires MANPOWER to run it/to win a war/to defend yourself against enemies.
No Bobbo. We have been through this and you are struggling with basics. If a country uses the draft, it reduces GDP and taxation revenue, that would be better used on acquiring technology. If Germany had to use 100 blokes with shovels because it could not produce bulldozers and the USA could use 3 blokes and a bulldozer, then the USA has 97 men that could be used for other purposes.

Do you want me to use cartoons next time so you can follow this logic?
:lol: :lol:
bobbo_the_Pragmatis wrote:I don't think telling the invading force to read Albert Speers book would meet your existential concerns.....................
I now realise that you don't know who Albert Speer is. He ran Germany's economy and production. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:07 am

Just plain stupid...........Ok.........I accept your refusal to engage what is plainly offered in favor of your mindless repetition and Straw Man obfuscation. I don't see the attraction........but to each their own.
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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:22 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatis wrote: Just plain stupid...........Ok.........I accept your refusal to engage what is plainly offered in favor of your mindless repetition and Straw Man obfuscation. I don't see the attraction........but to each their own.
1) I didn't make a stawman and when I asked you identify it you couldn't.
2) I engaged and set out exactly why the draft is no longer viable as technology has replaced manpower on the battlefield. You had no rebuttal.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:03 am

My rebuttal STILL IS: what would you do if you need manpower (ie: REGADLESS of how much less you need today than yesterday) and voluntary efforts don't supply enough? What would you do Matt? Demand I read up on another dead corporatist? Ha, ha.............all irrelevant.

Try to be relevant Matt: answer the direct question posed about five times now.
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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: My rebuttal STILL IS: what would you do if you need manpower (ie: REGADLESS of how much less you need today than yesterday) and voluntary efforts don't supply enough? What would you do Matt? Demand I read up on another dead corporatist? Ha, ha.............all irrelevant.
No Bobbo. Try again. If you have two alternatives of manpower through conscription which reduces production and tax revenue or a smaller professional army with more effective equipment, than manpower alone, which is the better alternative?

Try form an argument this time. The Russian are converting to a professional army with high tech equipment for exactly the reasons I stated and gave clear examples.

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:27 am

My rebuttal STILL IS: what would you do if you need manpower (ie: REGADLESS of how much less you need today than yesterday) and voluntary efforts don't supply enough? What would you do Matt? Try to substitute the red herring of an alternative either/or that is irrelevant????

Your Straw Man on Fire poser is not interesting. Too many more facts required to be relevant. In a vacuum, I'll agree that I favor what the West has decided: a smaller professional army with more effective equipment. The POINT STILL REMAINS: what if you can't man that smaller professional army with volunteers. What ya gonna do Matt?
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Re: Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:20 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: My rebuttal STILL IS: what would you do if you need manpower (ie: REGADLESS of how much less you need today than yesterday) and voluntary efforts don't supply enough? What would you do Matt? Demand I read up on another dead corporatist? Ha, ha.............all irrelevant.
No Bobbo. Try again. If you have two alternatives of manpower through conscription which reduces production and tax revenue or a smaller professional army with more effective equipment, than manpower alone, which is the better alternative?

Try form an argument this time. The Russian are converting to a professional army with high tech equipment for exactly the reasons I stated and gave clear examples.

Which IS the better alternative was bobbo's question.

And why is it that the Israelis are using involuntary servitude? (I know, you are an Aussie and know nothing whatsoever about the US or Israel.)
Last edited by Tom Palven on Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:35 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: My rebuttal STILL IS: what would you do if you need manpower
100 men with no equipment fix a road. ( Conscript army)
3 men and a bulldozer fix a road (Professional Army)

There are now 97 men who can be used elsewhere.

You never did basic mathematics did you?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:38 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:35 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: My rebuttal STILL IS: what would you do if you need manpower
100 men with no equipment fix a road. ( Conscript army)
3 men and a bulldozer fix a road (Professional Army)

There are now 97 men who can be used elsewhere.

You never did basic mathematics did you?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You ASIS guys should probably share this basic math with Israel.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited twice to add HUMOR THROUGH SMIILIES
Last edited by Tom Palven on Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Netanyahu Says He Will Compromise

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:38 am

The road doesn't get fixed if you don't have three men to (dare I say) run it.

The math IS OBVIOUS. Your refusal to recognize it is too.

Tenth time: what would you do Matt if you don't have enough men to protect your country via voluntary efforts? word games and obfuscation: is no help.
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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:43 am

Tom Palven wrote: Which IS the better alternative was bobbo's question.
You know less mathematics than Bobbo. There are 97 men left over.
Tom Palven wrote:And why is it that the Israelis are using involuntary servidtude?
The USA pays Israel 3.2 billion a year to have high tech equipment, and thus is not concerned with economics. That's where Israel got its 200 X 15 kiloton nukes from.

Israel, with a population of 8 million, is trying to occupy and take on countries with hundreds of millions of people and still uses national service, which doesn't work. Israel had its arse kicked in Lebanon and is continuously trying to draw the USA into an Iranian war that Israel would lose if it tried on its own.

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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:46 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: The math IS OBVIOUS. Your refusal to recognize it is too.
Show me your "mathematics" Bobbo. I've been waiting. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Germany had a fixed pool of 8,000,000 men. Which system would free up more men? A professional army with equipment or a conscript army relying only on manpower?

What happened in Germany?

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Netanyahu Supports the Draft

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:49 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:43 am

Tom Palven wrote:And why is it that the Israelis are using involuntary servitude?
The USA pays Israel 3.2 billion a year to have high tech equipment, and thus is not concerned with economics. That's where Israel got its 200 X 15 kiloton nukes from.

Israel, with a population of 8 million, is trying to occupy and take on countries with hundreds of millions of people and still uses national service, which doesn't work. Israel had its arse kicked in Lebanon and is continuously trying to draw the USA into an Iranian war that Israel would lose if it tried on its own.
Your first paragraph doesn't compute for me, but you got the second paragraph right, imvho.


Oops. Edited because forgot to add smilies to demonstrate good sense of humor:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Tom Palven on Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 am

Tom Palven wrote: Your first paragraph doesn't compute for me, but you got the second paragraph right, imvho.
Why would it? You don't know anything about economics.

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Netanyahu Supports the Draft

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:51 am
Tom Palven wrote: Your first paragraph doesn't compute for me, but you got the second paragraph right, imvho.
Why would it? You don't know anything about economics.

Whereas Mathew Ellard knows everything about everything.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:53 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Why would it? You don't know anything about economics.
Tom Palven wrote: Whereas Mathew Ellard knows everything about everything.
No Tom. Did you forget you used to pretend you studied economics, when you were studying horticulture. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:"Although it was not required reading in my economics courses at Cornell, "
http://www.discussionworldforum.com/sho ... php?t=4854

As I said. You don't know anything about economics. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Government by Control Freaks

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:07 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:53 am
Matthew Ellard wrote: Why would it? You don't know anything about economics.
Tom Palven wrote: Whereas Mathew Ellard knows everything about everything.
No Tom. Did you forget you used to pretend you studied economics, when you were studying horticulture. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:"Although it was not required reading in my economics courses at Cornell, "
http://www.discussionworldforum.com/sho ... php?t=4854

As I said. You don't know anything about economics. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Whereas you apparently excelled in American History 101, Advanced Weaponry, Introduction to Keynesian Economics, Modern Day Torture Techniques, Disinforamtion Creation For Secret Police, and every other conceivable subject at The School of The Americas, or at least How to Use a Secret Police Search Engine.

Btw, your window for posting seems to have shrunk.

Have they cut back your hours at ASIS?
:lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
:mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:02 am

Tom Palven wrote: Actually, "Matthew Ellard, sir" is so verbose and so inconsistent that I'm starting to think that it's actually two or three ASIS employees
Tom Palven wrote: Have they cut back your hours at ASIS?
Sooooooo...Tom Palven? Why would the Australian government pay three Australian Secret Intelligence Service officers, to join the forum to monitor you, Tom Palven, a senile, 75 year old, retired, forest ranger, in a Florida retirement home? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have you thought for a moment that your senility may be making you think this?
:lol: :lol:
Yogi bear 21.jpg
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Neocon Control Freaks

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:45 am

You're clocking in here on time, Mr. Ellard, sir, but you seem to be leaving early lately.

Has ASIS cut back your hours?

We appreciate that you at least have time to do great graphics!

:lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:
:mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
:lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:
:mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:52 pm

Tom Palven wrote: You're clocking in here on time, Mr. Ellard, sir, but you seem to be leaving early lately.
Has ASIS cut back your hours?
....but Tom Palven? You simultaneously claim there are three of me spying on you, to learn your forest ranger secrets. Are you confused again?

Why are you so stupid?
:lol: :lol:

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Netanyahu Supports the Draft

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:22 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatis wrote: Just plain stupid...........Ok.........I accept your refusal to engage what is plainly offered in favor of your mindless repetition and Straw Man obfuscation. I don't see the attraction........but to each their own.
I engaged and set out exactly why the draft is no longer viable as technology has replaced manpower on the battlefield.

Bobbo is definitely onto your schick, but I gotta admire your illuminating.

Not quite the Book of Kells, but right up there with the Yogi Bear comic strip, imvho.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire