Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Angel » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:24 pm

landrew wrote:OK, if there is any extraterrestrial intelligent life out there, (please note: intelligent) respond to this posting any way you wish. Anything will do, as long as it is convincing to the skeptics.

Thanks
A. Earthling


First prove you are A. Earthling please.

Then.
Are you proud of yourselves yet?
Being the big bully's that you are.
So you can break my heart. Big Deal.
May you all rest in my peace <3
Has A Nice Day :lol: <3

Ps ~ if you know who I am then why do you treat us so?

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Monster » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:22 pm

gorgeous wrote:....and don't forget the hollow Earth.....filled with aliens....see...poodle is paying attention..... :mrgreen:

Earth is filled with aliens? What do they eat?
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:49 pm

Monster wrote:
gorgeous wrote:....and don't forget the hollow Earth.....filled with aliens....see...poodle is paying attention..... :mrgreen:

Earth is filled with aliens? What do they eat?


Everything that goes down.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Poodle » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:51 pm

I certainly am, gorgeous. At the moment I'm working on the dreams you had last night.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by gorgeous » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:54 pm

Monster wrote:
gorgeous wrote:....and don't forget the hollow Earth.....filled with aliens....see...poodle is paying attention..... :mrgreen:

Earth is filled with aliens? What do they eat?

----------idk...-------The NEW Hollow Earth Insider » Aliens

thehollowearthinsider.com/archives/tag/aliens

A man who claimed to be a former Lockheed Martin engineer said on his deathbed that aliens are real and have visited Earth, in a now-viral video posted to ...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by gorgeous » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:14 pm

wiki----In their 1966 book Intelligent Life in the Universe,[20] astrophysicists I.S. Shklovski and Carl Sagan devote a chapter[21] to arguments that scientists and historians should seriously consider the possibility that extraterrestrial contact occurred during recorded history. --------------Shklovski and Sagan argued that sub-lightspeed interstellar travel by extraterrestrial life was a certainty when considering technologies that were established or feasible in the late '60s;[22] that repeated instances of extraterrestrial visitation to Earth were plausible;[23] and that pre-scientific narratives can offer a potentially reliable means of describing contact with alien.

Sagan illustrates this hypothesis by citing the 1786 expedition of French explorer Jean-François de Galaup, comte de La Pérouse, which made the earliest first contact between European and Tlingit cultures. The contact story was preserved as an oral tradition by the preliterate Tlingit. Over a century after its occurrence it was then recorded by anthropologist George T. Emmons. Although it is framed in a Tlingit cultural and spiritual paradigm, the story remained an accurate telling of the 1786 encounter. According to Sagan, this proved how "under certain circumstances, a brief contact with an alien civilization will be recorded in a re-constructible manner. He further states that the reconstruction will be greatly aided if 1) the account is committed to written record soon after the event; 2) a major change is effected in the contacted society; and 3) no attempt is made by the contacting civilization to disguise its exogenous nature."[24]
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Monster » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:18 pm

gorgeous wrote:A man who claimed to be a former Lockheed Martin engineer said on his deathbed that aliens are real and have visited Earth, in a now-viral video posted to ...

Why should anyone care about that? Watch this:

I'm a current software developer, and I'm not on my deathbead, and I said that aliens aren't real, and haven't visited Earth.

You should consider me equally credible, right? I mean, I said it, so it's true. QED. Ipso facto, and whatnot.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:28 pm

They should call those things "Spewtubes".
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Cygnus_X1 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:11 pm

I thought the Drake equation was ' if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then its a drake '
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Wordbird » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:05 pm

landrew wrote:I have a slightly different definition for "intellectual idiot."

Someone who constantly attacks the ideas of others without ever coming up with any of their own.
I have a slightly different name for this: A troll. (Or intellectual cowardice, because they think their ideas won't stand up to scrutiny, so they tend to stick to the simple and/or non-falsifiable while tearing other peoples' ideas to shreds, usually with dirty tactics like requiring an obscene amount of proof or a flashy false equivalency like convincing an entire forum so-and-so is a racist because of said belief.)

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 pm

I see you've encountered 'this-or-that' deniers. :-P
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:19 pm

At risk of being relegated to the Land of Woo again, I just want to stand on my principle that you can't prove a negative in this case. I'm not a "believer" in any way, but I must side with the statisticians, who say it's virtually impossible for the entire universe to be sterile of extraterrestrial life.

So where are they? Yeah, I know, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. Carl Sagan wasn't wrong when he said, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Sorry, I don't make the rules of logic.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Poodle » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:45 pm

A problem appears to be that alien civilisations which haven't developed leaky transmission of information (or developed non-leaky stuff first and didn't bother with anything else) are discounted. They could be the most common form of civilisation in the entire universe. We can see 5000 candidate stars with the naked eye.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:53 pm

Poodle wrote:A problem appears to be that alien civilisations which haven't developed leaky transmission of information (or developed non-leaky stuff first and didn't bother with anything else) are discounted. They could be the most common form of civilisation in the entire universe. We can see 5000 candidate stars with the naked eye.
Broadcasting radio waves outward in a sphere doesn't seem like a particularly advanced technology. In fact, we are doing it less and less all the time. I don't think it will be long before we no longer use this inefficient form of communication. The century or so that we were doing it, will pass in the blink of an eye against the vast time-scale of the universe.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gord » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:11 am

landrew wrote:Carl Sagan wasn't wrong when he said, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
Absence of evidence can be evidence of absence. There are nuances involved. I would (and have done so before) argue that absense of evidence is always evidence of absence, but it's not always very good evidence.

Here's an article by Victor Stenger where he argues that the absence of evidence for the Judeo-Christian god is evidence of that god's absence: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-s ... 82169.html
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:13 pm

Gord wrote:
landrew wrote:Carl Sagan wasn't wrong when he said, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
Absence of evidence can be evidence of absence. There are nuances involved. I would (and have done so before) argue that absense of evidence is always evidence of absence, but it's not always very good evidence.

Here's an article by Victor Stenger where he argues that the absence of evidence for the Judeo-Christian god is evidence of that god's absence: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-s ... 82169.html
There are nuances involved. But it's problematic to assign subjective values like "good" to evidence. Sagan was a trained scientist, not a media skeptic. The absence of bias is essential to the scientific method; unlike the relentless push to "win" against inconvenient claims that impinge on the comfortable orthodoxies that seem to threaten the status quo. A fair hearing and an honest accounting of the facts is a better route, than a rancorous, pejorative attack, attempting to "refute" arguments through denial, dismissal and ridicule.

All he is saying is that you shouldn't form a conclusion based on a lack of evidence; that would be "proving a negative" in a sense. He is right. There's no need to force a conclusion where none is needed. No need to snuff out any hope that an unorthodox idea that may or may not have some merit. Set aside the agenda; it's not a holy war against heretics. Exposing frauds, scams, fallacies and lies are what skeptics do best, but don't take the shortcut of approaching the subject with front-loaded negative conclusions. That's practicing apologetics. Let's not get carried away with bad methodologies that belong in a partisan ideological war.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:02 pm

"Good" evidence is evidence that doesn't suck.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:22 pm

The evidence for superstring theory is poor to nonexistent.
But that doesn't make it all a bunch of hooey. I don't wish to impugn the thought processes of some people, but they really do think that way.
It's the X=0 fallacy, all over again...
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:51 pm

And the evidence for the Cottingly Fairies is absurd to stupid. That does make it all a bunch of hooey. Being unable to differentiate between the two is the hallmark of a loon.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:09 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:And the evidence for the Cottingly Fairies is absurd to stupid. That does make it all a bunch of hooey. Being unable to differentiate between the two is the hallmark of a loon.
In hindsight, it's painfully obvious that they were cut out from paper. I suppose the earnestness of the girls played a role in the amount of acceptance the hoax garnered. Also, in 1921 the art of trick photography was not as well known nor expected by most of the public. It was also an austere post-war period in England where hopes were running high for a better world, and belief in the supernatural was more widespread.

I find it more interesting to examine the belief in the hoax rather than to merely ridicule and dismiss. It must be the streak in me that was trained as a scientist.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:39 pm

There's no reason to waste time on people being stupid. Unless you're looking for tips, that is.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:19 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:There's no reason to waste time on people being stupid. Unless you're looking for tips, that is.
Educate me. How do you know if something is stupid, or just hard to believe?
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Major Malfunction » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:36 pm

Poodle wrote:We can see 5000 candidate stars with the naked eye.
You must have better eyes than me...
*goes to optometrist*
*puts on glasses*
My god, it's full of stars...
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:40 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Poodle wrote:We can see 5000 candidate stars with the naked eye.
You must have better eyes than me...
*goes to optometrist*
*puts on glasses*
My god, it's full of stars...
Monolithic post, dude. 8-)
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Poodle » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:41 am

It was a mid-range estimate. Some claim up to 10,000. I do admit, though, that I haven't counted them myself.

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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Major Malfunction » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:46 pm

I'm not even kidding. I'd recently got my first glasses, and was lying on a beach in a small country town miles from anywhere. The waves were breaking with blue luminescence. My mate and I were splashing around and pissing in the water making them all light up. You could write your name.

So as we're lying on the beach, sharing our third spliff, talking deep and meaningful {!#%@}, as you do, staring into space, I suddenly saw the galaxy in crystal-clear three dimensions.

It's big.

No homo.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:36 pm

Poodle wrote:It was a mid-range estimate. Some claim up to 10,000. I do admit, though, that I haven't counted them myself.
I'm sure it's more than that, but the job of counting them would be a killer.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:05 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:I'm not even kidding. I'd recently got my first glasses, and was lying on a beach in a small country town miles from anywhere. The waves were breaking with blue luminescence. My mate and I were splashing around and pissing in the water making them all light up. You could write your name.

So as we're lying on the beach, sharing our third spliff, talking deep and meaningful {!#%@}, as you do, staring into space, I suddenly saw the galaxy in crystal-clear three dimensions.

It's big.

No homo.
I never saw the Moon until I was 13. Y-donor wouldn't spend the money for glasses on me.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:57 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:I'm not even kidding. I'd recently got my first glasses, and was lying on a beach in a small country town miles from anywhere. The waves were breaking with blue luminescence. My mate and I were splashing around and pissing in the water making them all light up. You could write your name.

So as we're lying on the beach, sharing our third spliff, talking deep and meaningful {!#%@}, as you do, staring into space, I suddenly saw the galaxy in crystal-clear three dimensions.

It's big.

No homo.
I never saw the Moon until I was 13. Y-donor wouldn't spend the money for glasses on me.
You could have made pinhole glasses for yourself.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:07 pm

I googled that in 1963, didn't get any hits.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:18 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I googled that in 1963, didn't get any hits.
You can try it in the shower to see if you have the shampoo bottle in your hand; make a pinhole by curling your finger and looking through it, and you can read the lettering.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:56 pm

landrew wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I googled that in 1963, didn't get any hits.
You can try it in the shower to see if you have the shampoo bottle in your hand; make a pinhole by curling your finger and looking through it, and you can read the lettering.
The ophthalmology surgeons check me with a "domino" with holes in one side. That works after I've recovered enough from surgery. So I'm aware of the concept, NOW. Not fiftythree years ago.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:02 pm

We can't observe enough of the universe in sufficient detail for 'absence of evidence' to have any meaning vis-à-vis ET life.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:19 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:We can't observe enough of the universe in sufficient detail for 'absence of evidence' to have any meaning vis-à-vis ET life.
Sorry, I can't derive any meaning from your statement.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:25 pm

Hypothesis: there is a pen on this desk

I gather all the evidence from examining 1 square femtometer. I find no evidence for a pen. I conclude the hypothesis is false. Reasonable?
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:36 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Hypothesis: there is a pen on this desk

I gather all the evidence from examining 1 square femtometer. I find no evidence for a pen. I conclude the hypothesis is false. Reasonable?
Common mistake. You don't see a pen, so "a pen doesn't exist." Actually it may or may not, therefore the likelihood is an X, not a zero. You are concluding the hypothesis is false, but all you can actually do is "fail to disprove the null hypothesis" -this is the basis of the experimental part of the scientific method.

Sagan was correct in that we can't assume that something doesn't exist based on our lack of evidence for it's existence. Thus, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." To put it another way; someone tells you that your house is on fire, but you don't see or smell smoke, so you assume it didn't happen.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:42 pm

landrew wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Hypothesis: there is a pen on this desk

I gather all the evidence from examining 1 square femtometer. I find no evidence for a pen. I conclude the hypothesis is false. Reasonable?
Common mistake. You don't see a pen, so "a pen doesn't exist." Actually it may or may not, therefore the likelihood is an X, not a zero. You are concluding the hypothesis is false, but all you can actually do is "fail to disprove the null hypothesis" -this is the basis of the experimental part of the scientific method.

Sagan was correct in that we can't assume that something doesn't exist based on our lack of evidence for it's existence. Thus, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." To put it another way; someone tells you that your house is on fire, but you don't see or smell smoke, so you assume it didn't happen.
?????

Has your reading comprehension gone down the shithole?

What I'm saying is that the very concept 'absence of evidence' is irrelevant if the sample size is too small.
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:01 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
landrew wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Hypothesis: there is a pen on this desk

I gather all the evidence from examining 1 square femtometer. I find no evidence for a pen. I conclude the hypothesis is false. Reasonable?
Common mistake. You don't see a pen, so "a pen doesn't exist." Actually it may or may not, therefore the likelihood is an X, not a zero. You are concluding the hypothesis is false, but all you can actually do is "fail to disprove the null hypothesis" -this is the basis of the experimental part of the scientific method.

Sagan was correct in that we can't assume that something doesn't exist based on our lack of evidence for it's existence. Thus, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." To put it another way; someone tells you that your house is on fire, but you don't see or smell smoke, so you assume it didn't happen.
?????

Has your reading comprehension gone down the shithole?

What I'm saying is that the very concept 'absence of evidence' is irrelevant if the sample size is too small.
Sample size is irrelevant to concluding a hypothesis is false. There's simply no means to do so.
The confusing part of your post is "examining 1 square femtometer." What relevance is that? Your wife asks you if you have the receipt for the massage you took last week, so you look on one small spot on one table, and conclude that it doesn't exist? Nice try.

I'm not alone by any means, in the belief that life could exist elsewhere. I doubt any reputable scientist would "conclude the hypothesis is false" as you have. Please provide more guidance for how I can improve my reading comprehension further.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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OlegTheBatty
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:08 pm

landrew wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
landrew wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Hypothesis: there is a pen on this desk

I gather all the evidence from examining 1 square femtometer. I find no evidence for a pen. I conclude the hypothesis is false. Reasonable?
Common mistake. You don't see a pen, so "a pen doesn't exist." Actually it may or may not, therefore the likelihood is an X, not a zero. You are concluding the hypothesis is false, but all you can actually do is "fail to disprove the null hypothesis" -this is the basis of the experimental part of the scientific method.

Sagan was correct in that we can't assume that something doesn't exist based on our lack of evidence for it's existence. Thus, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." To put it another way; someone tells you that your house is on fire, but you don't see or smell smoke, so you assume it didn't happen.
?????

Has your reading comprehension gone down the shithole?

What I'm saying is that the very concept 'absence of evidence' is irrelevant if the sample size is too small.
Sample size is irrelevant to concluding a hypothesis is false. There's simply no means to do so.
The confusing part of your post is "examining 1 square femtometer." What relevance is that? Your wife asks you if you have the receipt for the massage you took last week, so you look on one small spot on one table, and conclude that it doesn't exist? Nice try.

I'm not alone by any means, in the belief that life could exist elsewhere. I doubt any reputable scientist would "conclude the hypothesis is false" as you have. Please provide more guidance for how I can improve my reading comprehension further.
FFS LANDREW, I"M AGREEING THAT PROOF OF ABSENCE IS NOT ESTABLISHED!!!

I'm saying that . . . nm.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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landrew
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Re: Proof of No Extraterrestrial Life

Post by landrew » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:10 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
landrew wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
landrew wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Hypothesis: there is a pen on this desk

I gather all the evidence from examining 1 square femtometer. I find no evidence for a pen. I conclude the hypothesis is false. Reasonable?
Common mistake. You don't see a pen, so "a pen doesn't exist." Actually it may or may not, therefore the likelihood is an X, not a zero. You are concluding the hypothesis is false, but all you can actually do is "fail to disprove the null hypothesis" -this is the basis of the experimental part of the scientific method.

Sagan was correct in that we can't assume that something doesn't exist based on our lack of evidence for it's existence. Thus, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." To put it another way; someone tells you that your house is on fire, but you don't see or smell smoke, so you assume it didn't happen.
?????

Has your reading comprehension gone down the shithole?

What I'm saying is that the very concept 'absence of evidence' is irrelevant if the sample size is too small.
Sample size is irrelevant to concluding a hypothesis is false. There's simply no means to do so.
The confusing part of your post is "examining 1 square femtometer." What relevance is that? Your wife asks you if you have the receipt for the massage you took last week, so you look on one small spot on one table, and conclude that it doesn't exist? Nice try.

I'm not alone by any means, in the belief that life could exist elsewhere. I doubt any reputable scientist would "conclude the hypothesis is false" as you have. Please provide more guidance for how I can improve my reading comprehension further.
FFS LANDREW, I"M AGREEING THAT PROOF OF ABSENCE IS NOT ESTABLISHED!!!

I'm saying that . . . nm.
How do you explain: "I conclude the hypothesis is false. "
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.