Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

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Matthew Ellard
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 07, 2009 2:41 am

icesterftl wrote: Lech Wlensa nad Kwasieski ware both members of communist party and agents recruited by Russians.


Wrong. Solidarity party members received funding throught a MI6 British goldstream. The SVR, or foreign service of the old KGB, complained to the Polish home office who were half way through an investigation when communism fell. This is reproduced by a KGB defector in the Mitrovkin Archives which are available in book shops. You may may remember that the Polish government in exile resided in Britain until the late 1970s. Like most Poles, Solidarity was anti-Russian

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 07, 2009 2:46 am

icesterftl wrote:
Hollywood illusionist Steven Spielberg's mendacious anti-German libel, "Schindler's List," is based upon a novel, that is to say, a work of fiction, titled in its first edition, "Schindler's Ark," by the Australian writer Thomas Keneally (the book's name was later altered to coincide with the title of the movie).


I'm australian and I'm working with the associate producer of Schindler's List, Robert Raymond. He is currently making a surf movie. I will show him this posting and he will just laugh....."Do these guys think it was a documentary?"

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 07, 2009 2:53 am

icesterftl wrote: Also, NSDAP did not sent money to Israel or did they?


The NSDAP ended in 1945. Israel was established in 1948. Go buy a basic history book.

icesterftl wrote: Give me one single example of Jewish contribution to wealth and prosperity of Polish people and Polish state.


Ludwik Rajchman (1881-1965), founder of UNICEF.
Krystyna Skarbek (1915-1952), WW2 spy against the Nazis
Berek Joselewicz (1764-1809), colonel during Kociuszko Uprising and Napoleonic wars who saved Poland.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by vanderpoel » Thu May 07, 2009 3:14 am

David wrote:
vanderpoel wrote:The defamatory posts against Jews in this and other topics are in violation of our forum rules regarding defamatory, dehumanizing attacks on ethnic groups.


While I agree that Pyrrho has better things to do that host defamatory
posts against Jews

Saggy does have a good point that large parts of the Ugly Myth
do defame and dehumanize Germans and other groups of
Eastern Europeans. Not good either.

David, youʻre quoting pyrrho, not me.
(I compliment your civil discussion and your willingness to correct perceptions).

It is true that the nations that were occupied by the Germans and suffered as a result
of the German occupation do detest the Germans and for good reasons. These
German atrocities will take generations to heal.

Certainly, we can sympathize with the Hitler Jugend, who are all in their seventies
now, as being indoctrinated and somehow a victim of propaganda. Itʻs a burden.

We can empathize with those Germans who were born after the war, educated by
German survivors who are mostly all dead by now, as being innocent victims too.

We understand the efforts of all people, including the chosen ones, to keep history
alive as a deterrent to future suffering.

But we should not allow the atrocities of WWII to be belittled by titling them as the
Ugly Myth, just as we should not refer to WWII as the Holocaust or Holohoax.

There is a larger picture here and just as we should detest the Nanking and the
Holocaust deniers, we should be vigilant in debunking misinformed Neo-Nazi
sympathizers when theyʻre trying to minimize the atrocities of the Germans.
"When you put a toucan on a monkey’s ass, don’t be fooled by the brightly colored plumage, beware of the enormous bill!"

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Thu May 07, 2009 3:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: Lech Wlensa nad Kwasieski ware both members of communist party and agents recruited by Russians.


Wrong. Solidarity party members received funding throught a MI6 British goldstream. The SVR, or foreign service of the old KGB, complained to the Polish home office who were half way through an investigation when communism fell. This is reproduced by a KGB defector in the Mitrovkin Archives which are available in book shops. You may may remember that the Polish government in exile resided in Britain until the late 1970s. Like most Poles, Solidarity was anti-Russian


Is that the evidence that they ware not agents of CCCP?

Yes, within 24 hours wałesa went from communist to solidarity leader....

communism fell?

It is here expanding and swallowing German taxpayers money in huge amounts.

icesterftl

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Thu May 07, 2009 3:52 am

Pyrrho wrote:The defamatory posts against Jews in this and other topics are in violation of our forum rules regarding defamatory, dehumanizing attacks on ethnic groups. We are under no obligation to host such content on this forum. More such posts will result in administrative action. If you cannot discuss the issues without resorting to defamatory attacks, you will no longer be welcome to post here.


Is defaming fallacy, crime, terrorism, cannibalism, murder, extortion, blackmailing, kidnapping, rape, etc. allowed in this forum?

icesterftl

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 07, 2009 4:34 am

icesterftl wrote: Lech Wlensa nad Kwasieski ware both members of communist party and agents recruited by Russians.


Wrong. Solidarity party members received funding throught a MI6 British goldstream. The SVR, or foreign service of the old KGB, complained to the Polish home office who were half way through an investigation when communism fell. This is reproduced by a KGB defector in the Mitrovkin Archives which are available in book shops. You may may remember that the Polish government in exile resided in Britain until the late 1970s. Like most Poles, Solidarity was anti-Russian [/quote]

icesterftl wrote: Is that the evidence that they ware not agents of CCCP?

Yes. You can read the KGB archives if you want. Why would they be SVR/KGB agents if they were fighting communism? Are you saying the CCCP paid them to break up the CCCP? That doesn't make any sense does it?

Were you in Poland during this period? Something is not quite adding up here concerning your dates and knowledge of the time.


icesterftl wrote: communism fell? It is here expanding and swallowing German taxpayers money in huge amounts.


German taxpayers money?.....for Poland.....not former East Germany.... OK I need to ask you. Are you Polish or have you ever been to Poland? I posted the new constition for you but you do not seem able to understand what it means. You know Poland is not in Germany and a former Warsaw Pact member?

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Wolfie » Thu May 07, 2009 9:44 am

http://www.topnews.in/poles-snap-book-c ... spy-249257

Warsaw - Hundreds queued outside Warsaw bookstores Monday to snatch up copies of a new book claiming former Solidarity union leader and Nobel laureate Lech Walesa was a communist spy.

Lines formed before 8 am outside Warsaw's Institute of National Remembrance - a research centre that investigates Communist and Nazi crimes - for the release of Walesa and the Security Service.

Others tried their luck at the numerous bookstores that carried limited amounts of the 700-page volume.

The book claims to have new evidence that Walesa was an informer for Poland's communist-era secret service in the 1970s while working at the Gdansk shipyards and later, as president, removed archive documents that implicated him.

***

Walesa won a 2000 court ruling that said he was not a spy. But opponents, including Polish President Lech Kaczynski, say they know he had worked for communists.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/s ... 70,00.html

FORMER Solidarity trade union leader Lech Walesa has angrily hit back at claims in a new book that he helped Poland's loathed secret police during the country's communist era.

Mr Walesa blasted the allegations by two historians as "worthy of the dustbin".

Mr Walesa said the authors of The SB and Lech Walesa - Slawomir Cenckiewicz, 37, and Piotr Gontarczyk, 38 - were simply out to get him and called their 751-page book a badly produced "pamphlet".

...

The book looks back at Mr Walesa's pre-Solidarity days, alleging he "informed police several dozen times" about the activities of anti-communist shipyard workers in the 1970s.

It uses Sluzba Bezpieczenstwa (SB) secret police files which show that Mr Walesa had a code number, 14743, for encounters with its agents - which were inevitable for many Poles at the time.

The authors claim to have convincingly connected that code number to the files of an agent known as "Bolek" - the nickname for Boleslaw, which is Mr Walesa's second name.

"Bolek passed on information about the organisers of a strike in 1970, about those who listened to Radio Free Europe, and he told the authorities who was saying what. All that was subsequently used against these people," claimed Mr Gontarczyk.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Saggy » Thu May 07, 2009 1:03 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Saggy wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The defamatory posts against Jews in this and other topics are in violation of our forum rules regarding defamatory, dehumanizing attacks on ethnic groups.



In fact you yourself regularly post defamatory attacks on an ethnic group, that is, Germans. In this thread you posted that it was 'fairly clear' that the Nazis committed horrendous crimes. I correctly asked you for evidence of this accusation. You did not even feel any need to respond.

Actually, I'm working on it. Assembling references to available evidence takes time, and I only have so much time to devote to this, and it isn't on my list of priorities, so everyone will have to wait until it's posted. No ETA,


Let's put it this way, if you don't have any evidence for your grotesque slanders, why not refrain from making them.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Thu May 07, 2009 6:41 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: Lech Wlensa nad Kwasieski ware both members of communist party and agents recruited by Russians.


Wrong. Solidarity party members received funding throught a MI6 British goldstream. The SVR, or foreign service of the old KGB, complained to the Polish home office who were half way through an investigation when communism fell. This is reproduced by a KGB defector in the Mitrovkin Archives which are available in book shops. You may may remember that the Polish government in exile resided in Britain until the late 1970s. Like most Poles, Solidarity was anti-Russian


icesterftl wrote: Is that the evidence that they ware not agents of CCCP?

Yes. You can read the KGB archives if you want. Why would they be SVR/KGB agents if they were fighting communism? Are you saying the CCCP paid them to break up the CCCP? That doesn't make any sense does it?

Were you in Poland during this period? Something is not quite adding up here concerning your dates and knowledge of the time.


icesterftl wrote: communism fell? It is here expanding and swallowing German taxpayers money in huge amounts.


German taxpayers money?.....for Poland.....not former East Germany.... OK I need to ask you. Are you Polish or have you ever been to Poland? I posted the new constition for you but you do not seem able to understand what it means. You know Poland is not in Germany and a former Warsaw Pact member? [/quote]

Yes, ones you answer my questions you will find out by your self that most of the events are self evident.
I am in Poland, actually in the "Alt Deutschland".
I am an American half Polish half German.
Now who are you?
Are you a Jew?

icesterft

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 07, 2009 11:48 pm

Wolfie wrote: Walesa won a 2000 court ruling that said he was not a spy. But opponents, including Polish President Lech Kaczynski, say they know he had worked for communists. .


Thank you Wolfie. I did enjoy "they know he worked for the communists" . Well considering Poland was communist it was a bit hard not to work for them if you worked in unions.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 07, 2009 11:58 pm

icesterftl wrote: I am in Poland, actually in the "Alt Deutschland". I am an American half Polish half German. Now who are you? Are you a Jew?
icesterft


Worse than that. I'm Aussie with French/German origins from Alcase ( huguenots) my family has always been atheists. I joined the Sparticists ( A Marxist university union at Sydney Uni) in the late 70's, but quit as it was a silly union that didn't do anything. From there languages, archeology, then accounting, then law, now tax law. As my parents were in the military I grew up in Asia, Austria and India.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 08, 2009 12:08 am

icesterftl wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The defamatory posts against Jews in this and other topics are in violation of our forum rules regarding defamatory, dehumanizing attacks on ethnic groups. We are under no obligation to host such content on this forum. More such posts will result in administrative action. If you cannot discuss the issues without resorting to defamatory attacks, you will no longer be welcome to post here.


Is defaming fallacy, crime, terrorism, cannibalism, murder, extortion, blackmailing, kidnapping, rape, etc. allowed in this forum?

icesterftl


You are going to get banned if you keep this up. This is a skeptic forum and our host is the Skeptic's Society and its founder Michael Shermer. Mr Shermer has published articles and books debunking holcaust denial. This forum is for debate on facts but it is not for slandering any ethnic, religious or racial group just to express your personal hatred. I am not allowed to slag off fundamental christians. You are not allowed to slag off jews.

You should ask yourself... Why am I posting anti Jewish hate posts on a forum that's motto is ....."and the promotion of science". This is probably not the right forum for you as you have posted forgeries and lied about the Polish constitution. Try the CODOH forum or IHR forums. ( However I don't think they like Poles on those forums)

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Fri May 08, 2009 1:24 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The defamatory posts against Jews in this and other topics are in violation of our forum rules regarding defamatory, dehumanizing attacks on ethnic groups. We are under no obligation to host such content on this forum. More such posts will result in administrative action. If you cannot discuss the issues without resorting to defamatory attacks, you will no longer be welcome to post here.


Is defaming fallacy, crime, terrorism, cannibalism, murder, extortion, blackmailing, kidnapping, rape, etc. allowed in this forum?

icesterftl


You are going to get banned if you keep this up. This is a skeptic forum and our host is the Skeptic's Society and its founder Michael Shermer. Mr Shermer has published articles and books debunking holcaust denial. This forum is for debate on facts but it is not for slandering any ethnic, religious or racial group just to express your personal hatred. I am not allowed to slag off fundamental christians. You are not allowed to slag off jews.

You should ask yourself... Why am I posting anti Jewish hate posts on a forum that's motto is ....."and the promotion of science". This is probably not the right forum for you as you have posted forgeries and lied about the Polish constitution. Try the CODOH forum or IHR forums. ( However I don't think they like Poles on those forums)


Which post of mine is expressing personal hatred and towards whom?

icesterftl

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Fri May 08, 2009 1:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: I am in Poland, actually in the "Alt Deutschland". I am an American half Polish half German. Now who are you? Are you a Jew?
icesterft


Worse than that. I'm Aussie with French/German origins from Alcase ( huguenots) my family has always been atheists. I joined the Sparticists ( A Marxist university union at Sydney Uni) in the late 70's, but quit as it was a silly union that didn't do anything. From there languages, archeology, then accounting, then law, now tax law. As my parents were in the military I grew up in Asia, Austria and India.


Hello, down under.

We Americans, are multinationals and do not discriminate against any race or religion.
What is in question here is the sense of fair play.
But for you it seam to be a taboo subject when it comes to Jewish nation.
I think that this forum is for politically correct SKEPTICISM only.
Am I correct?

icesterftl

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 08, 2009 2:36 am

icesterftl wrote: I am in Poland, actually in the "Alt Deutschland". I am an American half Polish half German. Now who are you? Are you a Jew? icesterft


icesterftl wrote: Hello, down under.
We Americans, are multinationals and do not discriminate against any race or religion.
What is in question here is the sense of fair play. But for you it seam to be a taboo subject when it comes to Jewish nation. I think that this forum is for politically correct SKEPTICISM only. Am I correct?
icesterftl


Polish? / American?
I'm starting to think you are a bit "nutty". You say you are Polish in Poland and then in the same post you say "We Americans". I'm right...you are not in Poland are you? That's why you did not know about "Solidarity" being anti-communist. Where are you located in relationship to Gdansk?

Americans are Multi National?
Americans are no more multi-national than any other country. Considering us aussies own your Fox television and 20th Century Fox it is us who is controlling your media not the other way around. "MUST MAKE AMERICANS WATCH MORE SIMPSONS TO SELL ADVERTISING"

Skepticism / Jewish Issues
So far, you have posted a forged document and lied about the "communist constitution" of Poland not changing. Are you asking us to be skeptical about forgeries? Well "suck eggs", I was skeptical and I was right.

Is this forum politically correct?
Well you need to ask Pyrrho as I am only a guest. However Pyrrho sents me very nasty warnings if I do not argue using proper debating methods, use ad-hominen tactics, or abuse the poster. In my personal opinion Pyrrho prefers Oxford University debating rules and that means "no forgeries". Вы понимаете то, что я говорю?

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 08, 2009 2:57 am

icesterftl wrote: Here again in English:
http://www.polishforums.com/boguslaw_bagsik_polish_scam_arist-4_26843_0.html icesterftl


This is a link to a forum where there are only four posts saying "Yeah that guy is a crook" without saying what he did. Someone posts a photo. The last post says "no this is my university lecturer". This is your evidence?

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by David » Fri May 08, 2009 4:07 am

vanderpoel wrote:But we should not allow the atrocities of WWII to be belittled by titling them as the
Ugly Myth, just as we should not refer to WWII as the Holocaust or Holohoax.


The problem for me is that the real atrocities and crimes of the National Socialists
have been exaggerated by the Soviets and British.
An example is the exaggeration of the 78,000 dead of Majdanek into
1,400,000 at the Nuremberg Tribunal.

78,000 dead is a horrible tragedy but it was a propaganda myth
the 1.4 million were killed. The Soviets also added horror stories
of human fertilizer plants...the Ugly part of the story.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by vanderpoel » Fri May 08, 2009 4:32 am

David wrote:
vanderpoel wrote:But we should not allow the atrocities of WWII to be belittled by titling them as the Ugly Myth, just as we should not refer to WWII as the Holocaust or Holohoax.
The problem for me is that the real atrocities and crimes of the National Socialists have been exaggerated by the Soviets and British.
An example is the exaggeration of the 78,000 dead of Majdanek into 1,400,000 at the Nuremberg Tribunal.

78,000 dead is a horrible tragedy but it was a propaganda myth the 1.4 million were killed. The Soviets also added horror stories of human fertilizer plants...the Ugly part of the story.

Yes it is "Ugly" to distort the numbers, but you canʻt call the kettle black if you refer
to the events as an "Ugly Myth".

For example, it is estimated that approximately 7 million blacks were enslaved in America. If I reduce that number to 6 million, do I then refer to the event as a myth?
Is slavery an "Ugly Myth" because there might be a discrepancy about numbers?

For me the "Ugly" part of any revisionist claim is the attempt to use such differences
as evidence to dismiss the entire event. Now thatʻs ugly.
"When you put a toucan on a monkey’s ass, don’t be fooled by the brightly colored plumage, beware of the enormous bill!"

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by David » Fri May 08, 2009 5:12 am

vanderpoel wrote:Yes it is "Ugly" to distort the numbers, but you canʻt call the kettle black if you refer
to the events as an "Ugly Myth".

For example, it is estimated that approximately 7 million blacks were enslaved in America. If I reduce that number to 6 million, do I then refer to the event as a myth?
Is slavery an "Ugly Myth" because there might be a discrepancy about numbers?

For me the "Ugly" part of any revisionist claim is the attempt to use such differences
as evidence to dismiss the entire event. Now thatʻs ugly.


6 million to 7 million is not as extreme as 78,000 to 1.4 million.
BTW I used the term "myth" as an exaggeration of something that
does have a kernel of Truth...like Soviet and British propaganda did.
Majdanek was a horror but it was hugely exaggerated in the
propaganda tales.

But I do think the stories of human soap factories, shrunken heads,
baby bonfires are definitely ugly and untrue.
In fact, I think the promotion of these propaganda tales
distract from and demean the real events.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Fri May 08, 2009 1:37 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: I am in Poland, actually in the "Alt Deutschland". I am an American half Polish half German. Now who are you? Are you a Jew? icesterft


icesterftl wrote: Hello, down under.
We Americans, are multinationals and do not discriminate against any race or religion.
What is in question here is the sense of fair play. But for you it seam to be a taboo subject when it comes to Jewish nation. I think that this forum is for politically correct SKEPTICISM only. Am I correct?
icesterftl


Polish? / American?
I'm starting to think you are a bit "nutty". You say you are Polish in Poland and then in the same post you say "We Americans". I'm right...you are not in Poland are you? That's why you did not know about "Solidarity" being anti-communist. Where are you located in relationship to Gdansk?

Americans are Multi National?
Americans are no more multi-national than any other country. Considering us aussies own your Fox television and 20th Century Fox it is us who is controlling your media not the other way around. "MUST MAKE AMERICANS WATCH MORE SIMPSONS TO SELL ADVERTISING"

Skepticism / Jewish Issues
So far, you have posted a forged document and lied about the "communist constitution" of Poland not changing. Are you asking us to be skeptical about forgeries? Well "suck eggs", I was skeptical and I was right.

Is this forum politically correct?
Well you need to ask Pyrrho as I am only a guest. However Pyrrho sents me very nasty warnings if I do not argue using proper debating methods, use ad-hominen tactics, or abuse the poster. In my personal opinion Pyrrho prefers Oxford University debating rules and that means "no forgeries". Вы понимаете то, что я говорю?


OK,
now please provide on-line evidence that proves that what I posted is forgery.

icesterftl

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by brauneyz » Fri May 08, 2009 1:41 pm

David wrote:
6 million to 7 million is not as extreme as 78,000 to 1.4 million.
BTW I used the term "myth" as an exaggeration of something that
does have a kernel of Truth...like Soviet and British propaganda did.
Majdanek was a horror but it was hugely exaggerated in the
propaganda tales.

So you have misappropriated a perfectly clear term (myth), which most folks associate with "it's not real", when you really just mean hyperbole (as in to exaggerate)? And then when said folks are confused we're called names. I'm going to have to buy myself that fluid Denier's Dictionary, I see. :roll:
"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." ~ Bertrand de Jouvenel

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by David » Fri May 08, 2009 2:40 pm

brauneyz wrote:So you have misappropriated a perfectly clear term (myth), which most folks associate with "it's not real", when you really just mean hyperbole (as in to exaggerate)? And then when said folks are confused we're called names. I'm going to have to buy myself that fluid Denier's Dictionary, I see


a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.


"With or without a determinable basis of fact"...that sounds exactly like
what I am saying. Some tales have a basis in fact and some don't (like
the human soap stories)

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun May 10, 2009 11:11 pm

icesterftl wrote: OK,now please provide on-line evidence that proves that what I posted is forgery. icesterftl


In April 2000 a Katowice court charged Kazimierz Switon (see below) with incitement of racial hatred for distributing a document, purportedly from secret Interior Ministry files, revealing the “real” Jewish names of many leading Polish politicians, including Lech Walesa (“Lejba Kohne”) and President Aleksander Kwasniewski (“Izaak Stolcman”).http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw9 ... poland.htm

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by vanderpoel » Mon May 11, 2009 2:49 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: OK,now please provide on-line evidence that proves that what I posted is forgery. icesterftl


In April 2000 a Katowice court charged Kazimierz Switon (see below) with incitement of racial hatred for distributing a document, purportedly from secret Interior Ministry files, revealing the “real” Jewish names of many leading Polish politicians, including Lech Walesa (“Lejba Kohne”) and President Aleksander Kwasniewski (“Izaak Stolcman”).http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw9 ... poland.htm
:gp:
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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Mon May 11, 2009 3:39 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: OK,now please provide on-line evidence that proves that what I posted is forgery. icesterftl


In April 2000 a Katowice court charged Kazimierz Switon (see below) with incitement of racial hatred for distributing a document, purportedly from secret Interior Ministry files, revealing the “real” Jewish names of many leading Polish politicians, including Lech Walesa (“Lejba Kohne”) and President Aleksander Kwasniewski (“Izaak Stolcman”).http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw9 ... poland.htm


You have to do better than that.
Kazimierz Switon is a Polish Icon.
Katowice court case was a Jewish SB setup and he was latter cleared of any wrong doing.

He has a website with copies of all Jewish SB documents.

http://www.switon.pl/

On request he can obtain notarized copies of any of the 72 tons of Jewish SB documents that was released to public and now reside at:

Instytut Pamięci Narodowej http://www.ipn.gov.pl/

From them you can also obtain photocopies of any Jewish SB documents.

By the way Jewish SB is considered by Polish people as an equivalent to German SS.

icesterftl

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon May 11, 2009 11:09 pm

icesterftl wrote: You have to do better than that. Kazimierz Switon is a Polish Icon.
Katowice court case was a Jewish SB setup and he was latter cleared of any wrong doing. By the way Jewish SB is considered by Polish people as an equivalent to German SS. icesterftl



1) The list is fake. If you read the article you would know this.

2) You are a liar. His conviction of slandering the Polish Parliament and of inciting hatred of Jews was confirmed. http://www.religioustolerance.org/news_00jun.htm

3) If you knew who Kazimierz Switon was you would know that he is an anti-semite and also an anti German.

In 1998, he had urged his followers to erect Christian crosses outside the Auschwitz death camp. His leaflets said that "the time has come for us Poles to wage merciless war on Jewish-communist-masonry, the biggest enemies of the Polish state." The leaflets also referred to Israel and Germany as "satanic -pagan forces aiming at extermination of the Polish nation." He called Polish Parliament members "traitors." The Polish army removed all but one cross.

"In late May 1999, Świtoń announced that he had laid explosives under the site where the crosses were erected, and that he would detonate them if the Government attempted to remove him or the crosses. Police officers quickly arrested Świtoń for possessing explosives and making public threats".

You really need to stop lying. It is getting very boring.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Wolfie » Tue May 12, 2009 10:55 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: You have to do better than that. Kazimierz Switon is a Polish Icon.
Katowice court case was a Jewish SB setup and he was latter cleared of any wrong doing. By the way Jewish SB is considered by Polish people as an equivalent to German SS. icesterftl



1) The list is fake. If you read the article you would know this

2) You are a liar. His conviction of slandering the Polish Parliament and of inciting hatred of Jews was confirmed. http://www.religioustolerance.org/news_00jun.htm

3) If you knew who Kazimierz Switon was you would know that he is an anti-semite and also an anti German.

In 1998, he had urged his followers to erect Christian crosses outside the Auschwitz death camp. His leaflets said that "the time has come for us Poles to wage merciless war on Jewish-communist-masonry, the biggest enemies of the Polish state." The leaflets also referred to Israel and Germany as "satanic -pagan forces aiming at extermination of the Polish nation." He called Polish Parliament members "traitors." The Polish army removed all but one cross.

"In late May 1999, Świtoń announced that he had laid explosives under the site where the crosses were erected, and that he would detonate them if the Government attempted to remove him or the crosses. Police officers quickly arrested Świtoń for possessing explosives and making public threats".

You really need to stop lying. It is getting very boring.

:rulez:
A Request for Civility

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:43 am
To all participants in this subforum:

Lately there has been a noticeable increase in namecalling and insults.

Calling people liars, implying that your opponents are mentally ill, opening topics directed at attacking or humiliating individuals, mockery, and other ad hominem tactics are really not welcome here.

The topic of the holocaust is of great importance to many people, and although we understand that strong feelings are likely to be involved in these discussions, we must ask that you tone down the rhetoric you direct at each other.

We are not obliged to provide a venue for you to attack each other. That you can do elsewhere. Here, we ask that you focus on the subjects of discussion and the issues, not on each other. We would prefer that you make this a place where people can expect serious discussion of this important subject, not a place where people can expect to be treated rudely and/or crudely.

To those people who have not indulged in attacks on other people who post here, we would like to express our appreciation for your civility in the discussion of this difficult, complex subject.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Pyrrho » Tue May 12, 2009 11:23 am

The general forum rules are located here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2

This subforum is subject to those rules. My "Request for Civility" is not a set of rules.

I've flagged the post you quoted for review.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Wolfie » Tue May 12, 2009 12:00 pm

Pyrrho wrote:The general forum rules are located here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2

This subforum is subject to those rules. My "Request for Civility" is not a set of rules.

I've flagged the post you quoted for review.


While it may be just a request rather than a rule, calling another poster a liar is simply in poor taste and against common decency.
Mr. Ellard, what with his education and professional status should know better than make such defamatory comments.
Of course, the discussion of the Holocaust is by its very nature contentious and tempers do flare.
Personally, I think you request for civility is right on the money. If we start to break down and allow derogatory remarks and personal attacks the board will be finished.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by icesterftl » Tue May 12, 2009 6:22 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
icesterftl wrote: You have to do better than that. Kazimierz Switon is a Polish Icon.
Katowice court case was a Jewish SB setup and he was latter cleared of any wrong doing. By the way Jewish SB is considered by Polish people as an equivalent to German SS. icesterftl



1) The list is fake. If you read the article you would know this.

2) You are a liar. His conviction of slandering the Polish Parliament and of inciting hatred of Jews was confirmed. http://www.religioustolerance.org/news_00jun.htm

3) If you knew who Kazimierz Switon was you would know that he is an anti-semite and also an anti German.

In 1998, he had urged his followers to erect Christian crosses outside the Auschwitz death camp. His leaflets said that "the time has come for us Poles to wage merciless war on Jewish-communist-masonry, the biggest enemies of the Polish state." The leaflets also referred to Israel and Germany as "satanic -pagan forces aiming at extermination of the Polish nation." He called Polish Parliament members "traitors." The Polish army removed all but one cross.

"In late May 1999, Świtoń announced that he had laid explosives under the site where the crosses were erected, and that he would detonate them if the Government attempted to remove him or the crosses. Police officers quickly arrested Świtoń for possessing explosives and making public threats".

You really need to stop lying. It is getting very boring.


If anything was false he would be in jail now.
The documents are looked after by government appointed repository and any one member of public can access them.

Switon is not against Jews but against their unfair sense of play.

Jews are like any other human being and are considered as sitizens of the World with equal rights.

What gets them in troble is their misguided sence of fair play.
We need to help them to become fair partners in life.
How?
The same way we would like to be help.
NOT! by hatred or attacks on their religion, but by educating those who are affeted by unfair play.

Example:
If there is a Jew selling something at a market for the price that is 10 times the actual value of an item than one should not attempt to suspend his trading permit nor ask him to stop trading, but educate the people who he trades with.

icesterftl

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed May 13, 2009 12:19 am

Pyrrho wrote:The general forum rules are located here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2
This subforum is subject to those rules. My "Request for Civility" is not a set of rules. I've flagged the post you quoted for review.


Matthew's explanation.
I believe I am correct in calling icesterftl a "liar".
1) Icesterftl stated the Polish contitution had not changed since the communist period but this was a lie and I posted the address and ascension date for the post communist constitution.
2) Icesterftl claimed 50% of all Polish parliament members were Jewish and produced a list of "real Jewish" names or famous Poles but this was a forged document and I posted the information that proved it was a forged document and why Icesterftl already knew it was forged.
3) Icesterftl stated that Kazimierz Switon "got off" this charge. I posted evidence that Kazimierz Switon was convicted, appealed but had his conviction confirmed and that Icesterftl knew this.

For the above reasons I believe the word "liar" is quite correct.

I also note that no Holocaust denier has lifted a finger to inform Icesterftl that posting fabrications is a bad thing to do but they are upset that I called one of their own a "liar" based on the evidence.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed May 13, 2009 12:27 am

Wolfie wrote: Mr. Ellard, what with his education and professional status should know better than make such defamatory comments.


"Mr Ellard" has been through courts many times and knows that a defamation requires a false statement that causes objective damages to the applicant. I have not made any false statement and Icesterflt has not suffered any damage.

Icesterftl has made false statements about the Polish Parliament that come under their anti-semetism acts and Icesteftl may or may not live in Poland. Have you also sent a warning to Icesterftl offering him your legal opinion?

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Pyrrho » Wed May 13, 2009 12:46 am

Wolfie wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The general forum rules are located here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2

This subforum is subject to those rules. My "Request for Civility" is not a set of rules.

I've flagged the post you quoted for review.


While it may be just a request rather than a rule, calling another poster a liar is simply in poor taste and against common decency.
Mr. Ellard, what with his education and professional status should know better than make such defamatory comments.
Of course, the discussion of the Holocaust is by its very nature contentious and tempers do flare.
Personally, I think you request for civility is right on the money. If we start to break down and allow derogatory remarks and personal attacks the board will be finished.

Yes, tempers do flare, which is why I do not consider this actionable beyond a general reminder to people to avoid personal attacks.

The only sure way to prevent such occurrences is to moderate all posts to this forum, as is commonly done for blogs. I really do not care for that level of censorship.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:30 am

icesterftl" wrote:70 million vanished in result of Jewish invention called Communisms, invention by the three stooges called marks, engels and lenin".
lenin invented and perfected concentration camps.

Why are You (Jews) complaining that your own invention back fired in your face?

icesterftl
Howdy fellow Skeptic Society forum members. The person who wrote the above load of crap, has now returned to the forum with his own scientific theory that will "change the world as we know it." :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=30821&p=698254#p698197

(In other words, a loony is now offering his loony ideas in science and not just in his Antisemitism theories)
:D

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:57 am

I thought it was Lennon. :confused:
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:00 am

Wow....10 years later???
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Warsaw Ghetto Icons vs. Reality

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:30 am

. . . all right we are two nations . . .