Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

PSI, Mediums, Ghosts, UFOs, Things That Go Bump In The Night
Bart Stewart
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:27 pm

Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Bart Stewart » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:36 pm

This question is part of a stand-up comedy act I do from time to time, but then I thought I would float it here in all seriousness. WHY AREN'T GHOSTS NAKED?

Have we ever dealt with that epochal question before? I'm sure there must be a pat answer from the paranormalist community. But at the very least we can see that the clothing on ghosts eliminates certain possibilities of what they are. Namely it eliminates the leading theory, that they are the souls of the dead. If they were souls, they would not come with accessories. So while blurry, out of focus, semi-transparent apparitions might still qualify as folks who have stayed up past their death-time, the great majority of ghosts don't look like that, and must be something else.

A properly dressed spectre, whether in hoop skirt, monk's robe, or Confederate uniform, must be something more like a recorded image, like a movie. The entity would not be able to converse with anyone, or do anything outside of its recorded track. Humphrey Bogart has to deliver those same familiar lines with each viewing of Casablanca. He can't start talking about something else. If a fully clothed ghost starts talking to you directly, about current events, you are within your rights to suspect that something is wrong. Hoaxing is a distinct possibility.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:01 pm

I don't think think we are going to able to scientifictly understand why ghosts don't appear naked or at least not any time soon , but if ghosts are made up of some sort of electro magnetic energy then maybe they are able to manipulate the surounding atoms and free floating energy and make them selves appear as however they want to appear .

User avatar
rrichar911
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4853
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:03 pm
Location: Texas, God's country USA

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by rrichar911 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:34 am

Because they don't make ghost cloths
What really intrest me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the universe ~ Albert Einstein

User avatar
Paul
Regular Poster
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Paul » Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:03 pm

Most ghost reports include sightings of ghosts wearing some sort of clothing, these spirits obviously left this world and some how were able to keep their dignity. Imagine the shock of seeing a naked transparent floating spirit. All self respecting spirits want to be recognizable as human image.

Spirit clothing even dates to a certain period, flowing robe, a military uniform or even a plaid suit. Theoretically speaking of course, this is just a theory that makes no sense, using theories based on a theory describing spirits and their clothing is a theory that does not exist.
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Proud To Be a Vietnam Vet

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
Has No Life
Posts: 11960
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:40 pm

Ghosts are clothed to meet the needs of the ghost viewer, not the ghost.

Identification: The old soldier who used to live there vs. some old naked guy

Moral sensibilities: naked ghosts would offend a lot of people, which would destroy the mystique.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Therefore they are Naked in Heaven too?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:59 pm

Bart Stewart wrote: WHY AREN'T GHOSTS NAKED?


This is a fun discussuion only with no real answer, however if Ghosts are nude I cannot see why Heaven would not also be nude. That means, when you meet moses , you will notice his huge magical staff. Moses will be able to turn it into a snake in front of you. We may also discover why Mary "M" never slept with Jesus by observing Jesus's "private parts" because if Adam has all his ribs then must have got the bone from somewhere and as Jesus was his only son.......

Bart Stewart
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:27 pm

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Bart Stewart » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:50 pm

In fact, the damned in Hell are usually depicted in old paintings as being naked. I guess they would be nudists in Heaven, too.

My point in starting this droll thread was to show that there is a human cultural component to the notion of ghosts, which tends to suggest that ghosts are "made up" in human cuture as opposed to being real. Certainly ghost reports have changed enormously over time with the changes in culture. At one time an odor of sulphur was said to accompany ghosts. The seances of the early 20th century always featured ghosts ringing bells and beating drums. Frequently they showed up in starched collars and tweed suits. We've moved beyond that now, so ghosts have stopped doing that. And whatever happened to ecto-plasm?

Clothes are a feature of our material world. By rights the souls of the deceased should be as naked as newborn infants.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:14 pm

Why do ghosts or anything other paranormal phenomenon have to have any link to god and heaven and hell , I think there is a perfectly natural and scientific explanation that we just don't know enough about at this time . Ghosts could be a perfectly natural part of science that we just don't know about . People once thought the earth was the center of the universe and that was readilly accepted for yonks but that was proven wrong and now we know better today , maybe oneday we will understand more about the natural phenomenon of ghosts or we will find some sort of explanasion who knows .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:23 pm

Bart Stewart wrote:The seances of the early 20th century always featured ghosts ringing bells and beating drums. Clothes are a feature of our material world. By rights the souls of the deceased should be as naked as newborn infants.


There a a million problems
1) Why can ghosts talk and move through walls. Talking requires using the normal air to make vibrations yet they can avoid normal walls?
2) Why can Elizabethan ghosts speak modern english?
3) Why do ghosts hide? ( Why not be a popular attraction?)
4) What's wrong with daylight? I cannot think of any religious belief that requires everything to happen at night.

I did enjoy a recent book I read about seances 1900 to 1930. It allowed single women to advertise "one on one seances" with single men in darkened rooms. Harry Houdini had an informal team who visited all the "mediums" and I'm sure Mr Houdinin was very aware that most were simply prostitutes. I think Bill Clinton was the last high profile person to leave an extoplasm stain on someone's dress.

There is an old odd connection between ghosts, Scientific American and Harry Houdini that is worth reading about.

Bart Stewart
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:27 pm

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Bart Stewart » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:13 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Bart Stewart wrote:The seances of the early 20th century always featured ghosts ringing bells and beating drums. Clothes are a feature of our material world. By rights the souls of the deceased should be as naked as newborn infants.


There a a million problems
1) Why can ghosts talk and move through walls. Talking requires using the normal air to make vibrations yet they can avoid normal walls?
2) Why can Elizabethan ghosts speak modern english?
3) Why do ghosts hide? ( Why not be a popular attraction?)
4) What's wrong with daylight? I cannot think of any religious belief that requires everything to happen at night.


This list is truly endless...
5) How do ghosts propel themselves if they are intangible? They walk through walls yet their feet can gain traction and push against the floor.
6) Why are ghosts always haunting highbrow places like castles and mansions and swanky hotels, and never latrines or bus stops? If they haunt places where people have died how come hospitals are not wall-to-wall ghosts?
7) What is the shelf-life of a ghost? You don't hear of many that are more than a hundred years old.
8) Why aren't they more uniform? Some are invisible, some are wispy, some are quite solid-looking. The variations with cultural differences have been mentioned. Some cultures have truly outlandish traits attributed to ghosts.
9) Why the overlap in belief in Judeo-Christian supernaturalism and ghosts, psychics, and other occult stuff? The Bible specifically does not hold with such beliefs, yet endless millions of 21st century citizens believe in ALL of it.
10) Why aren't they seen more often? This is the question that sunk Bigfoot. It applies to ghosts just as much. Billions of people have lived and died on this planet, yet ghosts are extremely rare.

Well, they are beyond rare. They don't exist at all. Mooseman said above there must be a scientific explanation for ghosts. There is. It is all in the mind. It is likely an effect generated by the same section of the brain that makes people think they have been in the presence of space aliens. (Any other time I would be able to name it. Somebody help me out.) Add in some false memory phenomena and a heavy hit of folk culture programming and you have your average haunting.

User avatar
Martin Brock
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6036
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:36 pm
Location: Athens, GA

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Martin Brock » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:42 am

A ghost is an apparition. It appears without being physically present. It's an impression on your central nervous system. If some force outside of your central nervous system, like a disembodied soul somehow circulating through the ether, creates the impression, I suppose it could create an impression of itself clothed or not. You see the ghost as the soul imagined itself.

I don't much believe in ghosts or any life after this one, but you asked.
Last edited by Martin Brock on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
People associating freely respect norms of their choice, and relationships governed this way are necessarily interdependent.

More central authorities conquer by dividing, imposing norms channeling the value of synergy toward themselves.

"Every man for himself" is the prescription of a state, not a free community. A state protects the poor from the rich only in fairy tales.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:48 am

Martin Brock wrote:A ghost is a apparition. It appears without being physically present. It's an impression on your central nervous system. If some force outside of your central nervous system, like a disembodied soul somehow circulating through the ether, creates the impression, I suppose it could create an impression of itself clothed or not. You see the ghost as the soul imagined itself.

I don't much believe in ghosts or any life after this one, but you asked.


I think Martin is right. I agree some people see ghosts but it may be some optical trick that has been interpreted by the brain in a funny way. My girlfriend's father absolutely believes he saw a ghost and offers me extreme detail but cannot remember what colour the carpet was that the ghost stood on.

User avatar
Paul
Regular Poster
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Paul » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:07 am

What is a ghost what does it look like the process of stating a precise meaning seems to differ depending on where the information comes from.

The definition of a ghost is said to be the apparition of a deceased person, frequently similar in appearance to that person, and usually encountered in places he or she frequented, or in association with the person's former belongings.

The definition is lacking an accurate description, at best it only relates to something existing in perception, a ghostly appearing figure.

A definition must show and have an exclusive meaning, so there is no confusion.

Example: I lived with a bitch for eight years she was malicious, I gave her love, she neglected me, snapped at me for no reason and finally one day she ran away.

You thought I was talking about my X wife or girlfriend, I simply described a term for the female of a canine species in general. This is the Importance of knowing the correct definition.

Definitions that are too narrow will exclude some things that must not be omitted from the object of the definition you are trying to describe.

To say a ghost does (or does not) exist you have to know what ghost means when writing, describing or talking about a ghost.

So any meaning of a ghost, must have a definition long before you can say if one of them ghost things exist or not

This is where the belief in ghosts falls flat on its face. Without a definition of a ghost, then there is NO WAY to discuss, or describe a ghost.

How can you expect to prove something to exist if you cannot give a definition of what to look for? --- To go looking for something but have NO idea what to look for is not logical , you would not know it if you found it because you have no idea what you are looking for.
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Proud To Be a Vietnam Vet

User avatar
CMc
Poster
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by CMc » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:03 am

Paul59 wrote:How can you expect to prove something to exist if you cannot give a definition of what to look for? --- To go looking for something but have NO idea what to look for is not logical , you would not know it if you found it because you have no idea what you are looking for.


Paul59 seems to be saying that a skeptic must know what kind of ghost he doesn't believe in just as an atheist must know what kind of god he doesn't believe in.

User avatar
Paul
Regular Poster
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Paul » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:08 am

CMc wrote:
Paul59 wrote:How can you expect to prove something to exist if you cannot give a definition of what to look for? --- To go looking for something but have NO idea what to look for is not logical , you would not know it if you found it because you have no idea what you are looking for.


Paul59 seems to be saying that a skeptic must know what kind of ghost he doesn't believe in just as an atheist must know what kind of god he doesn't believe in.


You are correct, actually Im poking fun at the definition of a ghost because their is the probability that someone has given a definition to something that does not exist.
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Proud To Be a Vietnam Vet

jcity
Regular Poster
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:17 pm

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by jcity » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:44 am

With this and other supernatural phenomena there is a claim that physical effects occur without apparent physical causes. The supposed physical effects may include spontaneous generation of photons to be received by eyeballs (ghostly image), and the direct route Martin describes, stimulation of neurons (perception of ghostly image). The problem is to explain why we can't detect such anomalies with instrumentation. "Ghosts don't want to be detected" just doesn't cut it. Even if someone claims that as-yet-unknown physics causes events that appear cause-less, he still needs to demonstrate the existence of these events with something better than unreliable human witnesses or the occasional photographic artifact.
"When someone says 'there ought to be a law...', there probably oughtn't." Penn Jillette

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:17 am

The problem I find is too many people trust and believe their senses in these situations , I was driving the other day and there was this one corner where there was a car parked and ever time I went past it my eyes would trick me into thinking it was pulling out in front of me which of course it wasn't . Don't allways trust your senses they are easily fooled by things . If you go into a place thinking a ghost is there then you will probably think you feel and hear signs of them , which is why you need scientific equipment but even that isn't full proof you need to determine that what you detect is not something logical or explainable before you go saying its a ghost .

When I am working again I will get some equipment together and hopfully get a feild test done but who knows . The whole are ghosts are they real or not question is very similer to the are there aliens questions , odds defenitly come into it . Whats more likely that 100's of thousands of people around the world claim to experiance similer things without ever meeting eachother or talking to each other , or did they all just read about some wild claim and start thinking they are experiancing the same thing . Its like the odds of there being aliens , it is highly unlikely that with millions of billions of stars and solar systems around the universe that we are the only planet with life , or have we just not found any yet . Or there is the chance that we are so dumb and insignificant that aliens just don't care about us . I think people use religion to much to explain unexplainable things .

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:43 am

Just because nobody knows anything about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist , people know absolutely nothing about dark matter but its still there they just havent learnt enough yet to explain it .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:54 am

Mooseman wrote:Just because nobody knows anything about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist , people know absolutely nothing about dark matter but its still there they just havent learnt enough yet to explain it .


You are absolutely correct. Therefore the moment you can photograph "god" or a "ghost" or offer any evidence that they exist or have interacted with the real world we do not have to worry about them. Skeptics require that a theory is made about a particular observation. Until an observation is made there is nothing to think about. The same logic applies to seamonsters, fairies, bigfoots and tooth fairies.

Dark matter has some OBSERVABLE characteristics.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mooseman wrote:Just because nobody knows anything about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist , people know absolutely nothing about dark matter but its still there they just havent learnt enough yet to explain it .


You are absolutely correct. Therefore the moment you can photograph "god" or a "ghost" or offer any evidence that they exist or have interacted with the real world we do not have to worry about them. Skeptics require that a theory is made about a particular observation. Until an observation is made there is nothing to think about. The same logic applies to seamonsters, fairies, bigfoots and tooth fairies.

Dark matter has some OBSERVABLE characteristics.


Yip but even then it doesn't mean it aint reall , people just need to look at ghosts in a scientific way , forget the whole psychic mumbo crap look at with pure science . I think ghosts are a perfectly viable phenomenon BUT and I repeat BUT we need scientific proof of what they are or some other logical explanation .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:34 am

Mooseman wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: Dark matter has some OBSERVABLE characteristics.


Yip but even then it doesn't mean it aint reall , people just need to look at ghosts in a scientific way , forget the whole psychic mumbo crap look at with pure science . I think ghosts are a perfectly viable phenomenon BUT and I repeat BUT we need scientific proof of what they are or some other logical explanation .


You missed my point. There is observable evidence for Dark Matter due to the odd nature of red-shift and the missing mass from the universe. All scientists can observe this evidence, the evidence remains constant and thus some theories about "Dark Matter" have been proposed.

No one has ever seen a ghost in a laboratory or "replicate an observation event" where we can see a ghost. There is not one fact that a scientist can even make a theory about other than "people make up stories". Can you name one "fact" about ghosts that remains constant? There is no observation to make a theory about.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:51 am

Yeah I understand what you are saying , but it is similer to the old sailor stories about giant squid , that was a myth for a long time but then they started washing up and finally one was seen alive . The problem with ghost studies is you need to go about it in a way which has no gain for yourself and just do it out of curiosity , people make up crap . I would have loved to have seen that swinging swing in that playground that swang for no apparent reason with nobody on it .

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:02 am

This subject needs to be looked at in an agnostic way , if you are dead set that ghosts aren't reall then thats the only proof you will look for and the same if you think they are reall . You need to look at it from a point of view of maybe they do maybe they don't we just don't know .

You have to take all the so called sightings and experiances and seperate the explainable from the unexplainable , first you have to figure out what it isnt before you figure out what it is . If you go in with a biased mind then you will only look for what you want to look for .

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:01 am

Plus why is it important to have to observe the actuall phenomenon to make a theory , look at dark matter again and black holes , stuff we can't see so we don't study the object itself we study the objects effects on its surroundings to determine what the object is or isn't .

I think there are some ghost claims which we can say are made up for the sake of rating and scaryness for tv , one of those being the whole only at night time and in the dark thing . Photos are too easy to fake same with videos so they can be used as a tool but not taken as total proof .

The stuff that needs to be studied and taken seriously is thermal readings , infra red , EMF readings and temperature variables . Um EVP is another one but unless someone clearly ses "Hello I am so and so " on the EVP they can be quite questionable and sometimes your brain will make you hear what it sounds like and maybe not what it actually is . I am not saying you that stuff like that is proof or anything but those are things you can use to get information and either figure out that it is actually something easily explained or if not then study further .

User avatar
Paul
Regular Poster
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Paul » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:24 pm

Mooseman

Without being observable it becomes a guess. A scientific method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.

Ghost hunter groups claim to be scientific, and most give that appearance because they use high-tech scientific equipment. They employ equipment for a purpose for which it was not made and has not been shown to be effective.

The Use of EVP’s has many explanations explaining why the idea of recording a spirit voice is nonsense. The best and most impressive EVP no matter under what conditions it was recorded would remain non verifiable evidence, it can never be proven to be the voice of a dead spirit, there are to many alternative explanations
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Proud To Be a Vietnam Vet

User avatar
bigtim
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4088
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:04 pm
Custom Title: Skeptical Berserker
Location: Miðgarðr

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by bigtim » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:33 pm

Paul59 wrote:Mooseman

Without being observable it becomes a guess. A scientific method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.

Ghost hunter groups claim to be scientific, and most give that appearance because they use high-tech scientific equipment. They employ equipment for a purpose for which it was not made and has not been shown to be effective.

The Use of EVP’s has many explanations explaining why the idea of recording a spirit voice is nonsense. The best and most impressive EVP no matter under what conditions it was recorded would remain non verifiable evidence, it can never be proven to be the voice of a dead spirit, there are to many alternative explanations



yeah, my wife and I watch ghost hunter... and we love the EVP crap... I always hear bizarre {!#%@}... I heard one that said, I swear it did, "my penis itches"..... and the more they played it the more it SAID that; soldiifed, positive. I told my wife and she HEARD it too. By gawd it MUST be true!

but they didn't hear the real message on TV.....
~
BigTim
"I'm not entirely convinced that ValHalla isn't real."

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:11 pm

Mooseman wrote: You have to take all the so called sightings and experiances and seperate the explainable from the unexplainable , first you have to figure out what it isnt before you figure out what it is . If you go in with a biased mind then you will only look for what you want to look for .


Harry Houdini, the famous escape artist, worked very hard from 1900 to 1930 doing exactly what you have asked. He also had an open mind. He (somehow) ended up working with Scientific American and he did good work. He found nothing but cheats and fakes.

Here we are 100 years later an TV still has TV shows that set up infrared cameras, motion detectors, etc and they come up with nothing.

I think that the book publishing media, TV, radio and general culture have created a phenomena. I think you would be able to see what I mean if you start reading about ghosts from before 1700. You will realise that they are literary devices and not the spooky things that current culture calls them.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:17 pm

Yeah well I don't think television is the best place to look for reall proof lol , too many chances of getting fake crap on tv . Forget the tv crap , what I was meaning was you have to do the pratical studies using proper scientific equipment and the reason I listed that perticuler equipment is because that is what most people incompetent or not use . So you have to use that equipment and try and explain the things you get with them , if you go in with some peace of equipment that you came up with then people will think your tricking them . But one reall important thing is you can't be biased as I said before when you are doing any experiments you have to record the hits and the misses , if you go in there totally dead set they are reall then all you will care about is stuff you find that supports your belief , and if you think they are not reall then all you will care about is the proof of that . But if you go in there unbiased then you can mark down both the explainable and unexplained things you encountered and work on explaining it in a totally unbiased way .
Last edited by Mooseman on Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:29 pm

Mooseman wrote:Yeah well I don't think television is the best place to look for reall proof lol , too many chances of getting fake crap on tv .


Read a book on Harry Houdini. Harry Houdini is a founding member of our Skeptic "tribe" and he asked exactly the same questions you are asking 100 years ago. That's why so many leading Skeptics are magicians, because of Harry Houdini.
The Houdini information is detailed and accurate. It is not like TV at all.

May I suggest you try write down exactly what you think defines a "ghost". I do not think anyone can because the definitions all point to some other phenomena happening.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:47 pm

I personally don't know what a ghost is , are they really some dead person come back from the dead well without total proof who knows . For know I think the most logical thing is some sort of energy manifestation like some sort of elemental or something , manifestation of what? who knows more study is needed . But hey this is the point of studying unexplained things , like the kraken legend that went around for centuries and people decided to study it to find out if it was just a legend or if it had some support to it and look whats happened with that the last 10 years they have seen reall giant squids and now that new colosal squid .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:59 pm

Mooseman wrote:I personally don't know what a ghost is , are they really some dead person come back from the dead well without total proof who knows . For know I think the most logical thing is some sort of energy manifestation like some sort of elemental or something , manifestation of what? who knows more study is needed . But hey this is the point of studying unexplained things , like the kraken legend that went around for centuries and people decided to study it to find out if it was just a legend or if it had some support to it and look whats happened with that the last 10 years they have seen reall giant squids and now that new colosal squid .


The Kraken, from history is not a giant squid. There is no shock about giant squids because fishermen have been capturing small squids from day one. No one has caught a small ghost.

You can study unexplained things. I study art. But you cannot investigate unobservable things because there is nowhere to start. The christians have given up and now use the word "faith". This is a scientific Skeptic forum so you sort of have to stick to the scientific process here to get the skeptics on your side.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Lol yeah I try and stay away from religious arguments the ones I have been involved in the religious supporters allways get really defensive really really defensive lol . Thats why I love this forum because we are all willing to debate and discuss the facts and seperate the reall from the crap . One thing that is going to have to be considered in the ghost argument is that ghosts may not be what the typical discription of a ghost is , they could very well be some logical natural phenomenon like the northern lights or other things like that .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:17 pm

Mooseman wrote:Lol yeah I try and stay away from religious arguments the ones I have been involved in the religious supporters allways get really defensive really really defensive lol . Thats why I love this forum because we are all willing to debate and discuss the facts and seperate the reall from the crap . One thing that is going to have to be considered in the ghost argument is that ghosts may not be what the typical discription of a ghost is , they could very well be some logical natural phenomenon like the northern lights or other things like that .


Can you pick one case and explore that? I'd use the internet to find the case with the most witnesses.

Mooseman
New Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Mooseman » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:25 pm

I would love to study a ghost case , that would be awesome . One case I would have loved to have seen but couldnt being in a totally different country was that playground swing that was in a park somewhere and it supposidly swung for a few days with nobody on it . I will go on the net and do some searching for good cases .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:57 pm

Mooseman wrote:I would love to study a ghost case , that would be awesome . One case I would have loved to have seen but couldnt being in a totally different country was that playground swing that was in a park somewhere and it supposidly swung for a few days with nobody on it . I will go on the net and do some searching for good cases .


Please start a new thread and maybe call it "exploring one Ghost case" and simply set out all the details that you can in point form and then say what your opinion is.
You will get some supporters, some people attacking you and some people waffling about unrelated topics but it's a start.....I will join you.

User avatar
bigtim
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4088
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:04 pm
Custom Title: Skeptical Berserker
Location: Miðgarðr

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by bigtim » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:17 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mooseman wrote:I would love to study a ghost case , that would be awesome . One case I would have loved to have seen but couldnt being in a totally different country was that playground swing that was in a park somewhere and it supposidly swung for a few days with nobody on it . I will go on the net and do some searching for good cases .


Please start a new thread and maybe call it "exploring one Ghost case" and simply set out all the details that you can in point form and then say what your opinion is.
You will get some supporters, some people attacking you and some people waffling about unrelated topics but it's a start.....I will join you.


Agreed. The best place to begin youir career as a ghost hunter/researcher is to pick a case to investigate.
~
BigTim
"I'm not entirely convinced that ValHalla isn't real."

User avatar
Paul
Regular Poster
Posts: 500
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Paul » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:03 am

Why do skeptics know more about ghosts then the people who see them?
:lol: :roll:
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."
- John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Proud To Be a Vietnam Vet

User avatar
Major Malfunction
Has No Life
Posts: 14442
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 6:20 am
Custom Title: Dérailleur Énigmatique

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:08 am

I can't tell you anything about what ghosts wear or don't wear, because I've never seen one. But I can tell you what succubi wear. Well, what a succubus wore, at least...

A waist-length, black, Marlon Brando leather jacket, and skin-tight, black, stretch denim jeans. Her hair was carrot red and curly, and fanned-out, down to her elbows. She was posed as if to pounce.

I didn't get to see much more detail, as she stood silhouetted in my bedroom doorway but for the second it took me to see her. The next I knew she was upon me and I was paralysed, she's trying to drive her long tongue into my ear and devour my mind.

It felt sensual and funky and I liked it, but at the same time, I resisted. And she fled.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

User avatar
bigtim
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4088
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:04 pm
Custom Title: Skeptical Berserker
Location: Miðgarðr

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by bigtim » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:57 pm

Paul59 wrote:Why do skeptics know more about ghosts then the people who see them?
:lol: :roll:


A lot of skeptics started as believers. And, skeptics still study the concept.

Major Malfunction wrote:It felt sensual and funky and I liked it, but at the same time, I resisted. And she fled.


what? why the hell? You daft man?
~
BigTim
"I'm not entirely convinced that ValHalla isn't real."

User avatar
Major Malfunction
Has No Life
Posts: 14442
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 6:20 am
Custom Title: Dérailleur Énigmatique

Re: Why Aren't Ghosts Naked?

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:44 am

bigtim wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:It felt sensual and funky and I liked it, but at the same time, I resisted. And she fled.


what? why the hell? You daft man?

She was trying to devour my mind, dude! If I hadn't resisted, today I would be just like AoL.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.