For Conspiracy Nuts

Who else knows what we know, Jerry?
Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Thu May 09, 2019 8:02 am

For conspiracy nuts, or, as a friend of mine likes to call us, "Conspiracy Analysts."

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts makes a prediction here, and we can see how it plays out:
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/0 ... overnment/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5131
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu May 09, 2019 8:20 am

what is the prediction?

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by OutOfBreath » Thu May 09, 2019 8:32 am

{!#%@} will happen?
Allusions that "trump the peacemaker" is undermined by his own picked people? Deep state bruhahah to deflect responsibility from orange-in-chief?

It is clear that the Trump administration will ramp up pressure on Iran. It is popular among christian fundamentalists and Bibi fans (aka the republican "base" these days) to speak tough here. Whether anything like a war will happen, I dunno. Trump needing distractions from his criminal self continously can make this dangerous though.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5131
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu May 09, 2019 8:39 am

Case for Trump going to war against Iran:

- Netanyahu and MBS want him to
- Wars win elections
- most importantly: Obama didn't want a war with Iran

Case against Trump going to war with Iran:

Putin doesn't want him to, which is all that matters.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Thu May 09, 2019 8:43 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 8:20 am
what is the prediction?
The prediction is that the US and Israel will orchestrate a false flag operation:

"As the Israelis are the most competent member of this team, the speculation is that Israel will shoot down an American aircraft or attack a US Navy vessel, and Washington will have the presstitute media blame it on Iran."
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5131
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu May 09, 2019 8:48 am

and that is testable how?
How would we be able to tell the difference between a fake and an actual act of war?

not a good prediction.


Something has happened with Iran that looks to the US military like an aggression, but curiously, no one is talking about it - which goes exactly against the idea that the US is trying to frame Iran for something.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 09, 2019 8:59 am

The squirrel cage is leaking again.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Thu May 09, 2019 11:33 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 8:48 am
and that is testable how?
How would we be able to tell the difference between a fake and an actual act of war?

not a good prediction.
It could be a good prediction, but still impossible to prove without something like Wikileaks.

Here are two scenes from The Princess Bride that mention a false flag operation:

Prince Humperdinck: Tyrone, you know how much I love watching you work. But I’ve got my country’s 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder, and Guilder to frame for it. I’m swamped!
Count Rugen: Get some rest. If you haven’t got your health, you haven’t got anything.

Inigo: What is that you're ripping?
Vizzini: It's fabric from the uniform of an Army officer of Guilder.
Fezzik: Who's Guilder?
Vizzini: The country across the sea. The sworn enemy of Florin. [slaps the horse's rump] Go! Once the horse reaches the castle, the fabric will make the Prince suspect the Guilderians have abducted his love. When he finds her body dead on the Guilder frontier, his suspicions will be totally confirmed.
Fezzik: You never said anything about killing anyone.
Vizzini: I've hired you to help me start a war. It's a prestigious line of work with a long and glorious tradition.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5509
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by gorgeous » Thu May 09, 2019 3:14 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 09, 2019 3:15 pm

Faux News watching is the first sign of mental illness.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by OutOfBreath » Thu May 09, 2019 3:16 pm

For precedent you quote a 1987 movie???

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5509
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by gorgeous » Thu May 09, 2019 3:17 pm

cnn told him to stick to the script they gave him....fake news...wake up
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5131
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu May 09, 2019 3:51 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:17 pm
cnn told him to stick to the script they gave him....fake news...wake up
that depends on what the script was.
If it was nothing but the facts, him not sticking to it would make his statement fake.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am
Location: Fox Meadows

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by landrew » Thu May 09, 2019 4:10 pm

Galileo was accused of "fake science" and he was punished for it. Anyone who declares a news report "fake news" has the burden of proof for proving it's fake, especially when the story comes from a reputable source.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5509
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by gorgeous » Thu May 09, 2019 4:45 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:51 pm
gorgeous wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:17 pm
cnn told him to stick to the script they gave him....fake news...wake up
that depends on what the script was.
If it was nothing but the facts, him not sticking to it would make his statement fake.
------they are a propaganda machine
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 09, 2019 4:56 pm

Big Bad Big Media gonna eat you!
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Mon May 13, 2019 5:25 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 3:16 pm
For precedent you quote a 1987 movie???

Peace
Dan
The latest statistic that I've found so far about the number of admirals and generals in the Pentagon is from a 2011 Washington Post article that said Defense Secretary Robert Gates was trying to decrease the number of admirals and generals from 952 to 850 among the 23,000 total Pentagon military and civilian employees.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... a81a771456

Probably most of these admirals and general and other high-ranking officers graduated from West Point, Annapolis, or one of the other war colleges where they were taught the arts of war, but so far, despite the US being involved in constant wars for decades, none of these men and women have been able to experience the glorious parades and honors that went along with winning WW I and WW II.

Isn't it likely that many of these officers are neocons who elevate and support the warmongering efforts of John Bolton, Elliot Abrams, and their ilk?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 am

You use "war college" like a civilian.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am
Location: Fox Meadows

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by landrew » Mon May 13, 2019 3:12 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 am
You use "war college" like a civilian.
Is that a bad thing?
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon May 13, 2019 5:49 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:12 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 am
You use "war college" like a civilian.
Is that a bad thing?
Just an uniformed thing.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue May 14, 2019 8:24 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 5:25 am
The latest statistic that I've found so far about the number of admirals and generals in the Pentagon is from a 2011 Washington Post article that said Defense Secretary Robert Gates was trying to decrease the number of admirals and generals from 952 to 850 among the 23,000 total Pentagon military and civilian employees.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... a81a771456
Sounds prudent as they were taking down troop numbers.
Probably most of these admirals and general and other high-ranking officers graduated from West Point, Annapolis, or one of the other war colleges where they were taught the arts of war, but so far, despite the US being involved in constant wars for decades, none of these men and women have been able to experience the glorious parades and honors that went along with winning WW I and WW II.
mkay. Relevance?
Isn't it likely that many of these officers are neocons who elevate and support the warmongering efforts of John Bolton, Elliot Abrams, and their ilk?
If you remember back to when the government were full of actual neo-cons under Bush jr, it wasn't the generals that were most keen on military operations. It was the civilian dudes. I think it will often be the case that the political hawks will be much more willing to throw soldiers at a problem than the experienced military men who know what the cost will actually be and care at least somewhat about the men under their command. I have never in my life seen as uncomfortable a person as Colin Powell tasked with pushing for the Iraq war in the UN.

That army men tend to be on the conservative side isn't very surprising, as protecting the society as-is, is their main function. But being conservative isn't the same as being neo-con. I think you can see it in the current Trump admin as well. The generals he had in were mostly moderating forces, trying to keep his (civilian) crazies in check. Which is why they are mostly (all?) out now. The generals actually had some integrity, didnt take blanket orders, and were conservative whereas Trump shoots off about anything and cares not for consequences past the next news cycle.

So I worry more about tough-posturing short-term politicians than I do generals in a functioning democracy. The Wolfowitzes are more dangerous than the Powells of the world...

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 am

The number of generals is tied to the number of active troops at the rate of 1 pr 1600 troops apparently.

If we link this to spending, it is interesting to note in the graph a bit down here how Trump intended to bump up the military again above the late Obama levels.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... nough.html

So, how's "peaceful Trump" coming along for you?

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Tue May 14, 2019 8:57 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 am
So, how's "peaceful Trump" coming along for you?
Peace
Dan
I think you made a decent point in your previous post, and a good point in the current post, but how many times do I have to say that
Trump abandoned his campaign rhetoric and has been co-opted by the warmongering deep state/MIC?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:57 am
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 am
So, how's "peaceful Trump" coming along for you?
Peace
Dan
I think you made a decent point in your previous post, and a good point in the current post, but how many times do I have to say that
trump abandoned his campaign rhetoric and has been co-opted by the deep state warmongering MIC?
Trump hasn't kept a promise in his life. Now he has just co-opted the republican positions and put them on steroids. No deep-state needed here, just plain old republican chicken-hawk insanity brought to full bearing by Trump, who does anything for his fundamentalist base, as long as it only involves words and posturing. Possibly a missile strike here and there as well, and if he needs it, war with Iran. That will please the apocalyptically minded evangelicals.

(edit) The insanity is clear and in the open. There is no need for a quasi-illuminati structure to make sense of it. Just see what various republicans have said publically for 20 years, and what the people who support them are saying. Bolton is about as subtle as a kick in the nuts.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Tue May 14, 2019 9:15 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:57 am
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:46 am
So, how's "peaceful Trump" coming along for you?
Peace
Dan
I think you made a decent point in your previous post, and a good point in the current post, but how many times do I have to say that
trump abandoned his campaign rhetoric and has been co-opted by the deep state warmongering MIC?
Trump hasn't kept a promise in his life. Now he has just co-opted the republican positions and put them on steroids. No deep-state needed here, just plain old republican chicken-hawk insanity brought to full bearing by Trump, who does anything for his fundamentalist base, as long as it only involves words and posturing. Possibly a missile strike here and there as well, and if he needs it, war with Iran. That will please the apocalyptically minded evangelicals.

(edit) The insanity is clear and in the open. There is no need for a quasi-illuminati structure to make sense of it. Just see what various republicans have said publically for 20 years, and what the people who support them are saying. Bolton is about as subtle as a kick in the nuts.

Peace
Dan
Yes, Trump is the Platonic Ideal of a political opportunist, but that does not negate the existence of an aggressive, warmongering, US deep state/MIC.

Just for one tiny bit of evidence, what else but the existence of an aggressive, warmongering deep state/MIC can explain the elevation of Elliot Abrams, an unelected neocon chicken-hawk who was convicted of lying to the US Congress, to a position of greater power?
Last edited by Tom Palven on Tue May 14, 2019 9:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue May 14, 2019 9:17 am

No, but reality makes it just {!#%@} nuts.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue May 14, 2019 9:23 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:15 am
Just for one tiny bit of evidence, what else but the existence of an aggressive, warmongering deep state/MIC can explain the elevation of Elliot Abrams, a man who was convicted of lying to the US Congress, to a position of greater power?
Shameless partisanship in a broken political system. He is an (R), and those do what they want right now. Trump lies 10 times a day, and republican officials dont kick out him either.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 15, 2019 10:37 am

Americans were lied to about their government's involvement in Vietnam, Iraq, and in other places, and are being lied to again about Syria and elsewhere, but most apparently couldn't car less, and take the simple attitude "My country, right or wrong."

This is an article on false flags in Syria from an independent investigative journalist, not the AP.
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/05/14 ... narrative/

I'm just linking to this kind of stuff because I like to discuss politics and seek the truth out of curiosity's sake. I'm not an activist trying to change the world as I was in my youth, and have adopted The Serenity Oath, short version, "Fuk-It."

Peace?

You have got to be kidding.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am

You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am
You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Do you believe that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5131
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed May 15, 2019 5:42 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am
You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Do you believe that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953?
they were thinking about it - but hardly did anything.
When the revolutionaries stormed the US embassy, they were confused about how small the Intelligence operation was.
The CIA, of course, doesn't complain about having a reputation of being able to overthrow governments at will - but in the case of Iran, it was mostly in the right place at the right time -
and it never really managed to repeat the feat anywhere ever again.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am
Location: Fox Meadows

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by landrew » Wed May 15, 2019 5:49 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:42 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am
You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Do you believe that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953?
they were thinking about it - but hardly did anything.
When the revolutionaries stormed the US embassy, they were confused about how small the Intelligence operation was.
The CIA, of course, doesn't complain about having a reputation of being able to overthrow governments at will - but in the case of Iran, it was mostly in the right place at the right time -
and it never really managed to repeat the feat anywhere ever again.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but you seem to be making many assertions without citing any evidence.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 15, 2019 5:51 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:42 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am
You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Do you believe that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953?
they were thinking about it - but hardly did anything.
When the revolutionaries stormed the US embassy, they were confused about how small the Intelligence operation was.
The CIA, of course, doesn't complain about having a reputation of being able to overthrow governments at will - but in the case of Iran, it was mostly in the right place at the right time -
and it never really managed to repeat the feat anywhere ever again.
Hang on a second, EM. I'm asking Gawdzilla, who said I'm a conspiracy nut, if he believes that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953.

We can talk about the 1979 Iranian Revolution later, if that's okay.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5131
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed May 15, 2019 5:52 pm

landrew wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:49 pm
ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:42 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am
You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Do you believe that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953?
they were thinking about it - but hardly did anything.
When the revolutionaries stormed the US embassy, they were confused about how small the Intelligence operation was.
The CIA, of course, doesn't complain about having a reputation of being able to overthrow governments at will - but in the case of Iran, it was mostly in the right place at the right time -
and it never really managed to repeat the feat anywhere ever again.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but you seem to be making many assertions without citing any evidence.
my source is Legacy of Ashes - a History of the CIA:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/970 ... earch=true

which has a big section on the Iranian Revolution

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 15, 2019 7:48 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am
You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Do you believe that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953?
Some things have confirmatory evidence, others have your claims.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 15, 2019 8:55 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 7:48 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:37 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:47 am
You are, quite simply, a conspiracy nut.
Do you believe that the US and England conspired to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953?
Some things have confirmatory evidence, others have your claims.
Was that a "Yes" or a "No?"
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18890
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 15, 2019 9:01 pm

Conspiracy nuts can always point to real conspiracies. Doesn't mean a thing. Support what is actually at issue.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
Has No Life
Posts: 11960
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed May 15, 2019 10:08 pm

. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6180
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Tom Palven » Thu May 16, 2019 11:26 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:01 pm
Conspiracy nuts can always point to real conspiracies. Doesn't mean a thing. Support what is actually at issue.
Paul Craig Roberts' comments in the OP about whether the US and England will try to plant false flags as a pretexts for forcing regime change or preferably bombing Iran back into the Stone Age as far as Bibi Netanyahu and John McCain, (now rotting in Hell), are concerned, are simply conjecture.

They have to be conjecture, mere predictions, since these events have not occurred yet.

But, the question as to whether the US and England, already in the past conspired to overthrow the legitimate, democratically-elected government of Iran is certainly relevant to this conjecture.

Gawdzilla, who is not an absolute total idiot with an IQ below 50, is completely aware of this, which is why he didn't answer the simple question as to whether the US and England conspired to overthrow the government of Iran in 1953, and you are aware of this, too, which is why you came up with your BS comment above.

So, as a starting point, I'll ask you, also, did the US and England conspire to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Iran in 1953 or not?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23655
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: For Conspiracy Nuts

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu May 16, 2019 12:21 pm

Yes, unlike some people here I don't have a low IQ.

And you might check FRUS for an answer to your question. Unless you don't like big words.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.