Neocon Watch

Talk, debate, discussion, observations, etc... regarding episodes of MonsterTalk.
Tom Palven
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:27 am

Has US economic and political intervention in Venezuela backfired on Elliot Abrams and John Bolton?

Indian Punchline describes the entry of Chinese troops into Venezuela as a "watershed moment in world politics," but so far the US MSM seems to have ignored this development.
https://indianpunchline.com/chinas-pla- ... e-changer/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:49 am

FTL: "“Over the decade ending in 2016, China loaned Venezuela approximately $62 billion, much of which Caracas could repay with oil. Moscow in the last several years gave Venezuela $17 billion in loans and investment, and in December the two governments signed a new deal in which Russia will invest $6 billion in Venezuela’s oil and gold sectors.” //// Seems to me its China's investment in Venezuela that may have "backfired" whatever that fatally vague term is supposed to mean? I take it as: "something negative."

Seems to me: USA should nego with China to assure them they get their $$$ back "if" they allow a transition to the new guy. To bad USA doesn't have negotiators up to snuff.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:24 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:49 am
Seems to me: USA should nego with China to assure them they get their $$$ back "if" they allow a transition to the new guy. To bad USA doesn't have negotiators up to snuff.
I'd prefer that Bolton, Abrams, and the rest of the US deep state remove the oil and banking sanctions from Venezuela that are aimed at causing pain and political unrest, and concentrate on tending their own garden, but it ain't never gonna happen.

Just sayin'.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:56 pm

Venezuela "is" our garden. What makes you think it isn't? Dare to be great...........or get crushed by those who are.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:24 pm

The world has communities of good neighbors and bad neighbors. Putin was kicked out of the G8 because he was not a good neighbor. There's always a jerk in every neighborhood who puts himself first above all the others and makes life difficult for everyone else. They have a paranoid view of the world and associate with similar unsavory characters. They rarely prosper, especially when the greater community refuses to deal with them.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:36 pm

Good and Bad has little to do with Realpolitik. It has more to do with interests and abilities.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:22 pm

Neocons increase economic intervention to help the oppressed people of Venezuela:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vene ... SKCN1RH1B5
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:31 pm

Thanks for the context. Not that hard to do?

Sadly, we have too many examples that "economic pressure" on a Dictator rarely provides regime change: not when the country is already in active revolt. Revolt having many degrees and type....Venezuela not in armed revolution but people are in the streets in massive protests. Enough to cause regime change in any leader not a Fascist.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:10 pm

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:42 pm

let me do your work for you: "Deep state neocons persevere as VP Pense urges actions against Cuba for its support of Venezuela. This raises tension and possible military action to highest level since the Cuban Missle Crises."

Not so hard is it?

To me, it raises the question of how many idiots can be in charge of foreign policy before you don't trust anything they say?...........How far past that number are we now??????
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:47 am

Pence doubles down on Venezuelan coup d'état:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/04/10/pen ... the-table/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:57 am

In a victory for neocons and the MIC, Trump vetoed Congressional efforts to end US aid to Saudi Arabia in it's Yemen war:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/ ... 15258.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:47 am

The deep state neocons have out-maneuvered Trump and regained total control of foreign policy despite Trump's early efforts to achieve détente with Russia and North Korea, and to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and Syria.
https://www.fff.org/2019/04/22/russias- ... riendship/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:48 am

Poor Russia.
Only gets to continue laundering money and using it to buy factories in the US.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:11 am

As far as I was concerned, the only good thing about Trump was that he made noises about being antiwar and about bringing US troops home from the Mid-East.

So much for that:
https://reason.com/2019/04/16/so-much-f ... president/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:41 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:11 am
As far as I was concerned, the only good thing about Trump was that he made noises about being antiwar and about bringing US troops home from the Mid-East.

So much for that:
https://reason.com/2019/04/16/so-much-f ... president/
If Trump actually did what he said he was going to do, it would tip his hand. He routinely calls people "stupid" for believing his deceptive lies.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:17 pm

News from the US ally Saudi Arabia, that deep state neocons love to aid and abet:
www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featu ... p-message/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:23 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 01, 2019 9:00 am

The constructive article below, urging US détente with Venezuela's democratically-elected government, appeared April 22 in the South China Morning Post.
https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-op ... nd-his-own

Instead of taking this type of advice, the US ramped up it's sanctions and threats in support of a coup attempt, and the fact that it has failed to materialize so far is a slap in the face of Elliot Abrams, John Bolton, Michael Pompeo, John Brennan, James Clapper, and other US unelected deep state warmongering scum.

Let's hope that instead of war and poverty, that China can help show the Venezuelan government how peaceful free enterprise works in boosting an economy.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 01, 2019 9:17 am

Gee Whiz Tom. you're nuts. How many dog whistles can you blow at one time? Ha, ha.......like that old saying re freedom, it appears you think its proper application allows for the starving of the entire populace and they should applaud and support their own destruction.

You aren't thinking at all. China sending military troops to show how peaceful enterprise works?..................pulease.........
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 01, 2019 3:43 pm

It's the Wascally Wusshins, again:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/04/30/pom ... uela-coup/

:lol:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu May 02, 2019 6:28 am

Is Guaido now worth more dead to the CIA/deep state as a martyr than as an activist?
https://madhousenews.com/2019/05/ron-pa ... -creators/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon May 06, 2019 8:50 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon May 06, 2019 9:01 am

Yep.
NK is threatening its neighbors, so obviously we need to send warships to Iran.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue May 07, 2019 9:18 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 9:01 am
Yep.
NK is threatening its neighbors, so obviously we need to send warships to Iran.
Not to be forgotten, State Dept. spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus said that the US is gravely concerned bout North Korea's human rights abuses, more so, apparently, than its close neighbors, South Korea, Russia, China, and Japan, are.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nort ... SKCN1SC1WI

She didn't mention being gravely concerned about human rights abuses by the great US allies, Saudi Arabia or Egypt.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu May 09, 2019 6:41 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:50 am
Neocons send message to Iran:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SC01B?il=0

Neocons send message to China:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/ ... 01928.html

Neocons send message to Venezuela:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/05/politics ... index.html

Neocons send message to North Korea:
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/0 ... /23723772/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun May 12, 2019 12:33 pm

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon May 13, 2019 5:54 am

Gunboat diplomacy or prelude to destruction?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/ ... 43462.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed May 15, 2019 3:52 am

UK General on the ground says there is no increased threat from Iran, directly contradicting the Pentagon.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your ... an-threat/

But Trump has to please Saudi Arabia and Israel, so prepare for war so gets reelected.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 15, 2019 5:11 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:52 am
UK General on the ground says there is no increased threat from Iran, directly contradicting the Pentagon.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your ... an-threat/

But Trump has to please Saudi Arabia and Israel, so prepare for war so gets reelected.
Ever since Iranian students instigated the overthrow of the CIA/MI 6-installed dictator-shah in 1979, the neocons in the Pentagon have been smarting and, like McCain and Netanyahu, have wanted to "Bomb, bomb Iran."
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=mc ... &FORM=VIRE

Oh, btw, surprisingly, the AP covered the British general story and the Times-Union, Jacksonville, FL, ran it this morning.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed May 15, 2019 5:27 pm

Tom, do you accept that Trump is now in the pockets of the Neocons?

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu May 16, 2019 4:43 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:27 pm
Tom, do you accept that Trump is now in the pockets of the Neocons?
Yes, absolutely, and I suspect that as a political opportunist he has jumped into their pockets with his eyes wide open, a mini-conspiracy.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Fri May 17, 2019 6:24 am

Who wants to "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb Iran?"
https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2 ... with-iran/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri May 17, 2019 6:53 am

House Democrats tell Trump that Congress hasn't authorized a war against Iran.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Fri May 17, 2019 8:06 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:53 am
House Democrats tell Trump that Congress hasn't authorized a war against Iran.
The deep state (Pentagon/State Dept./MIC) is anxious to bomb Iran.

All Trump needs is a pretext for an emergency declaration and the shock and awe will begin.

Do you recall that Dubya said that he would wait for a UN vote authorizing the bombing of Iraq, and then when it looked like he wasn't going to get the vote he wanted he went ahead and bombed Iraq, anyway?

Iran today:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=iran&FORM=HDRSC2

Baghdad after shock and awe:
https://search.aol.com/aol/image;_ylt=A ... -searchbox
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon May 20, 2019 6:44 am

Is the US "the land of the free and the home of the brave" as we were taught in grade school, or is it now led by "warmongering psychopaths?"
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... -calamity/

"US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo delivered a warning that was so far beyond the pale of reality that it sounded as though it were scripted by a Hollywood film director with a penchant for embellishing American history."
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon May 27, 2019 5:56 am

Bernie Sanders demeaned neoconservative William Kristal for promoting the Iraq war:
https://en.news-front.info/2019/05/26/s ... -iraq-war/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon May 27, 2019 6:32 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 5:56 am
Bernie Sanders demeaned neoconservative William Kristal for promoting the Iraq war:
https://en.news-front.info/2019/05/26/s ... -iraq-war/
I already have a "news feed." In the best use of this forum: WHAT DO YOU THINK........of the opinion expressed in the link? Its pros or cons? Its well supported or vacuous mere pronouncements?

You know: ANALYSIS. Not just bs on the wall.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:53 am

The repressive warmongering idiocy continues.

The Trump administration denies Americans the ability to visit Cuba:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/06/04/cha ... ting-cuba/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:09 am

Is "war mongering" the best label you can put on the actions described in the link?

What about not war at all but economic penalties for percieved national interests??...........or in your mind is that the same as war?

................and what "should" the USA do regarding Cuban/Russian/Chinese activities in South America?.........Let them have their way or is anything else......."war?"

C'mon........sharpen that stick.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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