WHEN?

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WHEN?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:00 am

Imagine that a form of reincarnation is real. Your mind has been reestablished after death, and you are offered a choice. You are going to be born again. Your choice is when. Which year in history, any time from the paleolithic to the present, do you choose to be born. The problem is that you cannot choose where. The family you are going to be born into is chosen totally at random. It could be anywhere in the world, in any stratum of society. For the year you choose, all possible families in the world will have an equal probability of being yours.

When out of all of history or prehistory do you choose to be born? Give a reason.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:27 am

I'd go for NOW of course.....just as you set it up. Then I'd illegally immigrate to USA to make my fortune based on nostalgia.

Alternative: anytime pre-history/pre farming. A "back to nature" impulse to live close to the land. What?.......no cold beer at all????????

Back to the USA.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:27 am

Image


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Re: WHEN?

Post by Gord » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:39 am

Today, 'cause on the whole things are better today than they've ever been before.

Either that or the same year as last time, 'cause then I'd know everything that was about to happen before it happened and I could totally clean up with the bookies.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:57 am

I'd like to change my answer to Gords for the same reason. I forgot about buying Microsoft at 5 Dollars and such. Forget those bookies.....go with over the counter stocks.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:05 am

Gord wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:39 am
Today, 'cause on the whole things are better today than they've ever been before.

Either that or the same year as last time, 'cause then I'd know everything that was about to happen before it happened and I could totally clean up with the bookies.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by gorgeous » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:37 pm

Gord wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:39 am
Today, 'cause on the whole things are better today than they've ever been before.

Either that or the same year as last time, 'cause then I'd know everything that was about to happen before it happened and I could totally clean up with the bookies.
-------not according to liberals...now is the worse time in human history with trump destroying the country....you know ...that dictator, facist, nazi guy...
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Re: WHEN?

Post by gorgeous » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:39 pm

fyi....when you actually reincarnate you forget the reasons why and would not know the future usually...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:13 pm

Interesting.

We got sound and rational answers from Gord and Bobbo. Only when gorgeous replies do we get the kind of foolishness I half expected.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by gorgeous » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:41 am

mine is truth
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:05 am

No, G.
Your beliefs are pure, 100% superstition.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by Gord » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:10 am

gorgeous wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:37 pm
Gord wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:39 am
Today, 'cause on the whole things are better today than they've ever been before.

Either that or the same year as last time, 'cause then I'd know everything that was about to happen before it happened and I could totally clean up with the bookies.
-------not according to liberals...now is the worse time in human history with trump destroying the country....you know ...that dictator, facist, nazi guy...
Um, you're an idiot. *ding!*

Acccording to most of the "liberals" I know, while the world is indeed doing better now than it ever has before, the US is going rapidly downhill in many areas.

So yes, that dictator fascist nazi guy is damaging the US in general, but his impact on the rest of the world is fairly minimal so far. He does have a few nukes at his disposal, though! And he certainly can (and has) hurt his trading allies in the short term.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by TJrandom » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:02 pm

I think I'd wait a million or two years - when humanity maybe isn't. But if it is, then I might pass those history tests. ;)

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Re: WHEN?

Post by landrew » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:30 pm

I'm a time-traveler, going into the future at a rate of sixty seconds per minute.
Last edited by landrew on Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:56 am

I'd pass. I'd probably be reincarnated as a dog anyway.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:27 pm

Gord wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:10 am

Acccording to most of the "liberals" I know, while the world is indeed doing better now than it ever has before, the US is going rapidly downhill in many areas.

So yes, that dictator fascist nazi guy is damaging the US in general, but his impact on the rest of the world is fairly minimal so far. He does have a few nukes at his disposal, though! And he certainly can (and has) hurt his trading allies in the short term.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by mpsmitty » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:54 pm

Assuming I have memories of my past self, I'd say 18 years ago so I could try and track down my family and maybe create a paradox or something.

Assuming I have no memory of my past self, I'd say whenever because... it wouldn't matter as I wouldn't remember my choice.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:30 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:56 am
I'd pass. I'd probably be reincarnated as a dog anyway.
I've yet to see a dog break a kneecap on a desk, or dislocate a thumb while fixing the plumbing.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:42 pm

When? Whenever y'all are around, too! :-D
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Re: WHY?

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:43 pm

....other than that, for now, I'd pass. :paper:
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Re: WHEN?

Post by landrew » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:37 pm

I dunno, a dog's life can seem pretty appealing sometimes.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:07 pm

Just 200 years ago, 80% of the worlds population lived in extreme poverty. That is defined as being so poor that some of the time you live with starvation, having no food at all. Today, only 9% are in that state. There is no doubt as to when I would choose.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by TJrandom » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Sooo you like pain and suffering? ;)

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Re: WHEN?

Post by Gord » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:47 am

mpsmitty wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:54 pm
Assuming I have memories of my past self, I'd say 18 years ago so I could try and track down my family and maybe create a paradox or something....
This isn't about being your own parent or something, is it? Because ew. :P
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Re: WHEN?

Post by landrew » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:46 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:07 pm
Just 200 years ago, 80% of the worlds population lived in extreme poverty. That is defined as being so poor that some of the time you live with starvation, having no food at all. Today, only 9% are in that state. There is no doubt as to when I would choose.
I've noticed that the human animal tends to behave a lot like the rest of the animal kingdom. The strong tend to bully the weak, and the dominant ones seem to do their best to keep the best resources away from the less dominant. The runt of the litter is the least likely to survive, and will likely be bullied by it's stronger siblings for as long as it survives. Anyone who's spent time on a farm, knows that the dominant animal eats first, as much as it can, and leaves very little for the others if it can.

Humans aren't much different. The rich and privileged have historically bullied the poor, taking a massive share of the wealth, leaving very little to the rest. Large corporations swallow the smaller ones without mercy, and gaining a monopoly always seems to be their goal. In 1984, Steve Jobs made the egalitarian plea, saying, "IBM wants it all." It's no less true today; all the corporate giants "want it all." It's human nature, but it's also within our intellectual prowess to recognize that spreading resources benefits everyone much more. The failure of communism proved that redistribution of wealth doesn't work, but perhaps a new way will emerge that allows for the redistribution of opportunities.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:33 pm

In Stepehn Pinker's new book, he points out that the recent growth of inequality has also seen a rise in wealth at the lowest sectors of society, the very poor becoming less so. Inequality becomes greater, but everyone is actually better off.

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Re: WHEN?

Post by TJrandom » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:31 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:46 pm
... Anyone who's spent time on a farm, knows that the dominant animal eats first, as much as it can, and leaves very little for the others if it can. ...
Erm, not true. Having lived on a farm raising chickens, ducks, cattle, horses, rabbits and goats - They always were fed first and plentiful, even though there were times when I had little to eat. ;)

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Re: WHEN?

Post by landrew » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:34 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:33 pm
In Stepehn Pinker's new book, he points out that the recent growth of inequality has also seen a rise in wealth at the lowest sectors of society, the very poor becoming less so. Inequality becomes greater, but everyone is actually better off.
I think it's demented logic to assume a direct causal relationship. A rise in wealth for the wealthy (a boom) provides a temporary benefit to the poor, until the wealthy find a way to steal it all back again. By way of example, the discovery of North Sea oil resources provided a spike in demand for skilled and semi-skilled workers, resulting in much higher incomes for a time. Eventually, a tacit agreement was reached between employers to essentially reduce the wages paid to workers without outbidding each other. Another example is Butte Montana, which was once a place of great wealth for workers, until greater financial interests took control and clawed back much of the wealth that once poured out and was spread around the area.

Redistribution of wealth comes about mainly from government regulation, in the form of such things as subsidized education, fiscal regulation, minimum wage and other labor laws, albeit arguably woefully inadequate; it's one of the few things protecting most the public from abject poverty. The argument for more government involvement is a difficult one, particularly in the US, where it raises the specter of "socialism" a much-hated word.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by landrew » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:35 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:31 pm
landrew wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:46 pm
... Anyone who's spent time on a farm, knows that the dominant animal eats first, as much as it can, and leaves very little for the others if it can. ...
Erm, not true. Having lived on a farm raising chickens, ducks, cattle, horses, rabbits and goats - They always were fed first and plentiful, even though there were times when I had little to eat. ;)
Exactly, but in nature, food is rarely so plentiful that all the animals get enough to eat.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by TJrandom » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:44 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:35 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:31 pm
landrew wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:46 pm
... Anyone who's spent time on a farm, knows that the dominant animal eats first, as much as it can, and leaves very little for the others if it can. ...
Erm, not true. Having lived on a farm raising chickens, ducks, cattle, horses, rabbits and goats - They always were fed first and plentiful, even though there were times when I had little to eat. ;)
Exactly, but in nature, food is rarely so plentiful that all the animals get enough to eat.
Few animals die from starvation, but humans do. On the farm, I could regulate the food demand by not breeding or culling. In nature a dirth of food limits brood size or causes deaths - but generally accross the board where the strongest survive, but not becase they hoarded food or prevented others from getting to it. I believe just a few species might fit your model - maybe just social carnivores (wolves, cats).

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Re: WHEN?

Post by landrew » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:04 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:44 pm
landrew wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:35 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:31 pm
landrew wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:46 pm
... Anyone who's spent time on a farm, knows that the dominant animal eats first, as much as it can, and leaves very little for the others if it can. ...
Erm, not true. Having lived on a farm raising chickens, ducks, cattle, horses, rabbits and goats - They always were fed first and plentiful, even though there were times when I had little to eat. ;)
Exactly, but in nature, food is rarely so plentiful that all the animals get enough to eat.
Few animals die from starvation, but humans do. On the farm, I could regulate the food demand by not breeding or culling. In nature a dirth of food limits brood size or causes deaths - but generally accross the board where the strongest survive, but not becase they hoarded food or prevented others from getting to it. I believe just a few species might fit your model - maybe just social carnivores (wolves, cats).
A farm is not the natural world, but many aspects of natural animal behavior are observable there. Granted, competitive behavior is more pronounced in animals that form into social groups, but solitary predators are no exception. They fight for dominance to deprive others of food and mating opportunities. Rarely in the animal world do we observe a redistribution of resources or opportunity outside their own breeding group. Humans are fairly unique in that regard.
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Re: WHEN?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:03 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:34 pm

I think it's demented logic to assume a direct causal relationship. A rise in wealth for the wealthy (a boom) provides a temporary benefit to the poor, until the wealthy find a way to steal it all back again. By way of example, the discovery of North Sea oil resources provided a spike in demand for skilled and semi-skilled workers, resulting in much higher incomes for a time. Eventually, a tacit agreement was reached between employers to essentially reduce the wages paid to workers without outbidding each other. Another example is Butte Montana, which was once a place of great wealth for workers, until greater financial interests took control and clawed back much of the wealth that once poured out and was spread around the area.

Redistribution of wealth comes about mainly from government regulation, in the form of such things as subsidized education, fiscal regulation, minimum wage and other labor laws, albeit arguably woefully inadequate; it's one of the few things protecting most the public from abject poverty. The argument for more government involvement is a difficult one, particularly in the US, where it raises the specter of "socialism" a much-hated word.
I did not suggest a direct causal relationship. Just that inequality does not seem to make the poor poorer, since as inequality rises, poverty is also falling. The cause is that when the nations economy grows, so does inequality, and the reduction in poverty.

Pinker also points out from a historical study. Inequality grows when economies are healthy. But the reduction in inequality tends to happen during disasters, whether war, epidemic or natural disaster. When things go bad, everyone suffers, and the rich become less so relative to everyone else. Reducing inequality is cutting off your nose to spite your face.