The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:33 pm

Yeah, they're treating us to sights and noise this forum seldom gets to witness. :lol:
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:52 pm

Facts: what are the Palestinians going to DO to change their situation? Fact is, doing nothing more than calling the other side "disgusting" doesn't appear to be working. Maybe more than 70 years is needed?

Silly Hoomans.
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:04 am

Because I've never followed/delved into the IvP dispute, I did find the four maps I posted above to be very FACT oriented...how the Palestinians would have been (I assume) better off to have accepted UN Proposed and Israeli accepted borders. but they rejected such offers opting for "we want it all" even though we keep losing every war we start.

I felt a bit uncomfortable because there never has been a "Palestine" formally recognized ((until maybe just recently?)). Close in wording, but the Palestinian Mandate or the Palestinian Protectorate is not a formal recognition. I came across the more interesting rebuttal to the Four Maps labeling them all "LIES" that I think is more accurate...but I can't get them to post on this forum, I can only link to them. https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... tedIndex=0

I'm sure the claimed lies are well known by the anti-Zionists, Pro-Palestinians, Disgusted Ones, or whatever the label of the day is but it catches my concern. There never has been a Palestine: just Arabs in the area that Arabs out of the area don't want moving into their countries. Tribalism at its finest. No Palestinian Land until the Jews granted them some. Some.....not all....so the Palestinains think they can get more if they continue to agitate. Learning NOTHING from their own experienced History. British Controled Land, then Jordan and Egypt: only Israel has given the Palestinian any land "of their own." Yes....I know the opressive regime won't give them the vote so that the Arabs could once again have dominion over ALL the land.

Heh, heh: this is what losing wars of occupation is all about. Is that Fact enough for anyone?
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:47 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
montgomery wrote:Suffice to say that anyone who can actually support the horrendous slaughter of Palestinians and the Israeli apartheid regime, has lost credibility and is suspect on anything else they try to say on this section of the forum.

Sadly, most of the holocaust promotion side only spew insults most of the time anyway.
Insults are all they have. If they had facts on their side, they would share them. They don't have the facts on their side. Emotional shrieking and insults are necessary to keep a rational discussion of the facts off the table. For if rational discussion were allowed, the whole holocaust narrative would collapse.
Ran out of quips to post in the Einsatzgruppen thread, did you Maryzilla?
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:48 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I wonder if this means David is going to make an appearance and talk about ice dancing or the googly eyed lady.
That would be nice. He still owes us a map of Majdanek marked to show just what the hell he was babbling about for 2 years.
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:20 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:16 pm

Netanyahu is destroying Israel, bringing back from the grave Kahanism:

- AIPAC to boycott 'racist and reprehensible' Kahanist party wooed by Netanyahu | The Times of Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/major-us- ... eli-party/

- AIPAC criticizes Netanyahu: Q&A | Abu Yehuda
http://abuyehuda.com/2019/02/aipac-crit ... anyahu-qa/

- When an Israeli Prime Minister put Kahanism back on the political map – Harry's Place
http://hurryupharry.org/2019/02/22/when ... tical-map/
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html
XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:09 pm

It was also recommended today that Netanyahu be charged in the ongoing corruption investigation - unless I got my headlines mixed up and that was about Trump :)
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:15 pm

Thanks, Kleon. I looked into Meir Kahane and his psycho party. It’s like the evangelicals only worse.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:24 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:09 pm
It was also recommended today that Netanyahu be charged in the ongoing corruption investigation - unless I got my headlines mixed up and that was about Trump :)
Funny thing the guy that goes after Netanyahu, Attorney General Avichai Mandelblit, was appointed by Netanyahu, and now issues the indictment. Can't imagine doing the same His Excellency Honourable Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III (wow, what a name, for us poor Jeffs and Kleons and Davids of this world)

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:26 pm

LOL, yes indeed!!!!
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:30 pm

ROFL
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:56 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:15 pm
Thanks, Kleon. I looked into Meir Kahane and his psycho party. It’s like the evangelicals only worse.
Clearly a hard-core appalling despicable sociopath fascist. What bothers me is that most people today (after all these years where the equation 'zionism=nazism' has been around by the Kremlin's and islamists and neonazis 'antizionists' rhetoric), can't make the distictions and find the nuances between an Israeli patriot who simply wants a national home and a true right-wing Israeli. They think all zionists are fascists, 'zionazis'.

At the end, we have to let the Jews have their own villains.

It is the only group of people in this planet from which we always demand the highest levels of morality in every single issue, let alone they were the only group subjected to an industrial genocide or struggling to survive for thousands of years. This hypocritical trope 'you didn't learn a thing from the death camps' is so wrong. As if the death factories and the gas chambers had anything to do with ... educational purposes. They were slaughter houses, not Sunday Schools.

Anyway.

I find this piece by the great Ellen Willis, The New Yorker’s first rock critic, who died too young in 2006, an excellent reading:
http://blog.peaceworks.net/2014/08/why- ... i-zionist/

And I'm following this small left English group, all their analysis proven to be very fair, everything under the tag:
https://www.workersliberty.org/israelpalestine

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:01 pm

My opinion about Netanyahu is... well, complex.

One thing, IMO, can never be taken away from him: the relations we have developed with Arab and Muslim countries are an absolutely outstanding achievement. I honestly really appriciate Netanyahu's Machiavellian approach foreign policy of of "the enemy of our enemy is our friend". So many past Israeli polititains in the past, mostly from the left indeed, have skipped over such opportunities when because of some tight-assed ambigous morale codes. For the same reason, I really don't mind Netanyahu's good relationship with shady European figures like Orban the current goverments of Poland and Austria.

But aside from that... yeah, he is a problematic figure. Although I'm all for Machiavalllian politics, I only support it when it actualy benefits the country and is not done just to let Netanyahu keep it's seat, which basically what the recent alliance between the Likud and the Jewish Power and Jewish Home (no longer lead by Naftali Bennet) parties is all about.

My two other big problems with him are:
1) ECONOMICS. The thing is, we know very well that Netanyahu actually belives in capitalism, private venture and low taxations, but over the years, in order to get political power, he aligned himself and filled the Likud with many authoritarian and centralist idelaists and labor unionists who poisoned the party with socialist norms that are just lerfovers from the Mapai (Israel's original labor party, who ruled the country from 1948 to 1977) era. The best example is how Nentanyahu perosnally expressed his desire to allow Uber to operate in Israel, but his minister of transportation, Israel Katz, is a hostage of the Taxi drivers carte... I mean, union, so... yeah.

2) MILLITARY. Now, this desrve a whole seperate post, which I might write if you guys will want me to, but in general; let me tell you this: if there's one side in the Israeli-Palestinian story that gets absolutely ZERO coverage by international media, it is that of the Israli Jewish commonfolk who are very frustrated with Netranyahu's actions regarding Gaza, Syria, Lebanon and the West Bank, not because the 2.25 wars that he started, but more because of the one he didn't. I understand it might shock you as non Israelis, but there's actually a pretty big voice within Israeli society that really feels that Netanyahu and the current leadership of the IDF had actually PUSSIFIED Israel's millitary. We are in the middle of an unprecedented crisis of trust between the Israeli people and the IDF, where the people actually believe that the army is not doing ENOUGH, and Netanyahu has a pretty big role in that. Once again, if you want, i'll elaborate, because it's really a subject that is not discussed AT ALL outside of Israel when it should be, as it is a pretty important component of the current situation.

On a lighter note: If Bibi loses the election, the winner will probably be the "Blue and White" party led by Benny Ganz and his allies Yair Lapid, Boggie Yaalon and Gabi Ashkenazi (a union that is mockingly reffered to as "The Center Left Megazord"), and if it will, Gantz would become the first polititian in world history to become a head of state without revealing ANYTHING about his political beliefs. Seriously, we 40 days away from the election and his party has yet the release any clear statement about Ganz's ideas and plans on economics, foriegn policy, religion-state, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or any other important matter. His cmaaignn is made up of hillariously vage propaganda that is deisgned to not offend anyone and please everyone at the same time. It can literally be sumemd up in "I support things that are good and oppose things that are bad". If he wins an election after saying NOTHING during an entire campaign, this {!#%@} should be studied by proffessors of political science.

I'll end this long ass comment with another example of how foreign media is {!#%@} clueless about INTERNAL Israeli politics with this video, that basically says that "Netanyahu is being threatend by another Netanyahu" (take a look at the comment section), which in fact a Ganz-lead goverment would be Israel's most left leaning goverment since Rabin in 1995.
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:32 am

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:01 pm
We are in the middle of an unprecedented crisis of trust between the Israeli people and the IDF, where the people actually believe that the army is not doing ENOUGH, and Netanyahu has a pretty big role in that.
1. What is that crisis?

2. What action do what percent of the people want the army to do?

3. I agree Netanyahu would have a pretty big role in what the Army does or doesn't do. Why is he not giving the desired orders?
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:48 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:01 pm
My opinion about Netanyahu is... well, complex.
[...] this desrve a whole seperate post, which I might write if you guys will want me to
[...] if you want, i'll elaborate
Go ahead and elaborate, INCE, because it is always interesting and eye-opening hearing from the field of conflict what's going on.

And I enjoyed the '2.25 wars' term!

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:16 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:58 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:32 am
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:01 pm
We are in the middle of an unprecedented crisis of trust between the Israeli people and the IDF, where the people actually believe that the army is not doing ENOUGH, and Netanyahu has a pretty big role in that.
1. What is that crisis?

2. What action do what percent of the people want the army to do?

3. I agree Netanyahu would have a pretty big role in what the Army does or doesn't do. Why is he not giving the desired orders?
1. There's no specific action, but as said, there's generally an ongoing belief within Israeli society about the pussification of the IDF. It seems that the IDF is so afraid to cause any scandals that would make Israel look bad to a western eye, that it goes to lengths that actually risk the soldiers themsevles, as well as civillans. And no, this was prevelant even before the Azaria case. I'm about to finish my own service in the IDF next month and I've seen with my own eyes, in the hundredes of guard duties that I had, how laughable our rules of engagement are, they are so {!#%@} strict that you really start wondering why we are given guns anyways. And that's with me doing all of my service in a non-combat zone (no Gaza or West Bank for me, thank god). The soldiers who actually serve in "hot-spots" have even MORE STRICT ROEs, to pervent Azaria-like incidents. When you here about Palestianians who were shot in the demonstrations in Gaza, you might think that this is all because of savage genocidal orders given by IDF commenders, but in reality there's only two possibilities of how it happend: Either individual soldiers are too trigger happy and just ignore all the rules and intructions that they were given, or they DO follow all intructions, which means that every shot that killed Palestianins were shot after the soldiers went throught 10 stages of "ifs" and different conditions. Many citizens feel that this orders that the goverment's fear from international shitstroms is paralyzing the capabilities of the army, and thus jeopordises the safety of the people.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:04 am

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:56 pm
What bothers me is that most people today (after all these years where the equation 'zionism=nazism' has been around by the Kremlin's and islamists and neonazis 'antizionists' rhetoric), can't make the distictions and find the nuances between an Israeli patriot who simply wants a national home and a true right-wing Israeli. They think all zionists are fascists, 'zionazis'.
That sort of attitude is prevalent on places like Twitter. It goes back to what I think is this “hive mind” mentality that morons project towards Jews in thinking all Jews act towards a single purpose.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:58 am

INCE: sorry, but that response does not support what your main point was. I don't think the State Of Israel/Its people is under any security threat when ((Edit to add Palastinian here)) reporters/doctors/protestors are being shot in the dozens in ineffective border protests and I don't think these protests nor the less than full automatic weapons fire into the crowd demostrates at all that the Israeli Army or its soldiers are paralyzed at all.

I have no doubt you have your finger/attention on something that is real........I just still don't know what it is. And thats OK. Israel is facing a hostile threat from "Arab Interests" that vary from time to time and a captive population that has been energized to view Israel as the cause of all their problems and frustrations. So.......there is going to be conflict. Nothing new. Those who support more active activities on both sides, those who counsel less, those who think its about right. Nothing new.

In other words, in a point of commonality, I too served in several conflicts with ROE that I "did not like." but.....until you can come up with specific alternatives, all you have is a soldiers complaint: you are the one the enemy is shooting at and you'd rather be elsewhere. Makes perfectly good sense. Its just not how Nation States maintain themselves.
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:27 pm

For the sake of convenience here is the partition plan for the Mandate:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/palestine/ch2.pdf
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 pm

Netanyahu playing to the right to get re-elected:

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/07/71079915 ... ettlements

Prediction:
If/when Netanyahu gets re-elected he will annex the West Bank Settlements regardless of what the UN or anyone else says. Trump will recognize this move to pander to the Evangelicals who want to go home to Jesus.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:07 pm

The policy of Israel right from the start should have been to announce that any land captured during war would become part of Israel. Land for peace only on specific evaluation, or to keep funding from USA coming.

West Bank should have been incorporated after first capture. golan Heights particularly so.

HEY ARABS: don't want to lose your land?===>don't war with Israel.
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeff_36 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:36 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 pm
................ pander to the Evangelicals who want to go home to Jesus.
Which never made any damn sense to me.....

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:45 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 pm
. . . Prediction:
If/when Netanyahu gets re-elected . . .
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ults-today
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:59 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:36 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 pm
................ pander to the Evangelicals who want to go home to Jesus.
Which never made any damn sense to me.....
Well, logic isn’t their strongpoint but hypocrisy is.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:00 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:59 pm
Jeff_36 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:36 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 pm
................ pander to the Evangelicals who want to go home to Jesus.
Which never made any damn sense to me.....
Well, logic isn’t their strongpoint but hypocrisy is.
Pompeo can explain this. I frankly have forgotten his gibberish but he is a true believer in it, whatever it is.
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeff_36 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:13 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:00 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:59 pm
Jeff_36 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:36 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 pm
................ pander to the Evangelicals who want to go home to Jesus.
Which never made any damn sense to me.....
Well, logic isn’t their strongpoint but hypocrisy is.
Pompeo can explain this. I frankly have forgotten his gibberish but he is a true believer in it, whatever it is.
All I remember is that it was nuts.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:36 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:33 am

Can't say I'd be happy with either...

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:22 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 30, 2019 4:38 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 30, 2019 11:29 pm

LOL, couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:37 pm

Here’s a bipartisan effort I can get behind. Looks like Israelis are trying to block it:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.axios. ... 880ab.html
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:38 pm

Let's do a little thought experiment.

Let's say that tomorrow, the confilct ends with the best yet somewhat realistic case Two State Solution scenario: Hamas is no more, what is now the PA takes control over Gaza as well and is recognized by Iseael and the whole world as the offical Palestinian goverment, the IDF completley pulls out of the West Bank, 100% of the West Bank become a new Palestinian state and all the Jewish settlements are evacuated (probably by force).

What happens next?

In you honest opinion, how do you think things will continue from this point, from both the Israeli, the Palestinian and the outside world perspectives?
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:18 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:38 pm
Let's do a little thought experiment.

Let's say that tomorrow, the confilct ends with the best yet somewhat realistic case Two State Solution scenario: Hamas is no more, what is now the PA takes control over Gaza as well and is recognized by Iseael and the whole world as the offical Palestinian goverment, the IDF completley pulls out of the West Bank, 100% of the West Bank become a new Palestinian state and all the Jewish settlements are evacuated (probably by force).

What happens next?

In you honest opinion, how do you think things will continue from this point, from both the Israeli, the Palestinian and the outside world perspectives?
What do you think would happen?
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:31 pm

I love thought experiments but I'll preface with: since when does the Congress endorsing anything put pressure on anything? Who is dumb enough to write that? I won't go back to find and remember their name. I doubt anything else they predict/write/analyze will be worth reading/remembering either.

So...."Hamas is no More".....and the PA is in control having desired and approved the plan.....and the IDF is out, and Israelis are out by force "that I will assume" was applied by Israel? Because: that would only make sense in a peace deal.

Ha, ha.......well, obviously P has to start building their own Nuclear Weapons in order to reach parity. Alternatively: get the continuuing help from Israel to develop the coastal area into a cash generating tourist area while developing all kinds of solar technologies.

More the hope for as the full palate is available in such a made up hypothetical. Leave Hamas in the picture........and what do you have except eventually an armed invasion and sweep to the sea by Israel to completely remove the Terrorist Threat? If Israel weren't so religious.......they would have done this already.........
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:42 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:18 pm
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:38 pm
Let's do a little thought experiment.

Let's say that tomorrow, the confilct ends with the best yet somewhat realistic case Two State Solution scenario: Hamas is no more, what is now the PA takes control over Gaza as well and is recognized by Iseael and the whole world as the offical Palestinian goverment, the IDF completley pulls out of the West Bank, 100% of the West Bank become a new Palestinian state and all the Jewish settlements are evacuated (probably by force).

What happens next?

In you honest opinion, how do you think things will continue from this point, from both the Israeli, the Palestinian and the outside world perspectives?
What do you think would happen?
I wanna hear unbiased observations before unveiling mine.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:50 am

I think it depends on a few things.

What guarantees do both sides have regarding borders? Is there a UN peacekeeping force in the area that will keep both sides apart? Or NATO?

I think that there will be a very uneasy period but as long as Hamas isn’t there to cause issues I think both sides will settle down.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”