opinions on past lives?

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:You didn't watch Gorgeous's "Oprah" video at all did you? :lol:
landrew wrote:Yep ,that's how Philip Klass behaved. If you can't argue, just badger.
Soooooo you are arguing about "the evidence" in a video that you have not even watched, which I watched.

Why are you so stupid?
:lol:

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:43 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:You didn't watch Gorgeous's "Oprah" video at all did you? :lol:
landrew wrote:Yep ,that's how Philip Klass behaved. If you can't argue, just badger.
Soooooo you are arguing about "the evidence" in a video that you have not even watched, which I watched.

Why are you so stupid?
:lol:
I was never part of this discussion, so go away.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:51 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: You didn't watch Gorgeous's "Oprah" video at all did you? :lol:
landrew wrote:Yep ,that's how Philip Klass behaved. If you can't argue, just badger.
Matthew Ellard wrote: Soooooo you are arguing about "the evidence" in a video that you have not even watched, which I watched. Why are you so stupid? :lol:
landrew wrote:I was never part of this discussion, so go away.
You claimed the girl remembering a dream on Oprah was "eye witness testimony". Did you forget your previous BS claim already? :lol: :lol:

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by mirror93 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:44 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:44 pm
more and more little kids are claiming they died in the twin towers on 911....some worked there, some were firemen...
you're probably reading too much r/nosleep thinking it's non-fiction :lol:
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by gorgeous » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:51 pm

why isn;t it true?
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:07 pm

If we all thought alike, this would be the most boring forum ever.
So we are blessed with non-skeptics and skeptics from all over the spectrum. Some are very respectful of other viewpoints, and others are ruthlessly intolerant and unkind. I've learned since I started not to judge someone else's skepticism (or even non-skepticism) because that's a battle that can never be won. Each of us has our own version of what a true skeptic should be, and few of us are open to changing based on someone else's criticisms.

Having said that, I appreciate people who come here describing claims that skeptics can discuss and refute. Silly claims are easy to refute, so the aggressive personal attacks on such people is shameful in my opinion (and I said I wouldn't judge). Anyhow, I enjoy engaging in some of the topics that gorgeous has brought to the forum, even if they seem silly and poorly supported. I'm glad that she didn't get banned for being reported. It wouldn't be fair to persecute someone for what they believe, even if most people disagree.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by mirror93 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:17 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:51 pm
why isn;t it true?
Why do you ask?

Ok, let's assume past lives is true.

What is the evidence that what these people say is true? I can also claim that I was John Lennon in my past life, will you believe me? What is that which gives credibility to what someone says on the internet that makes you think it's true? Do you think people never lie for attention? or no people was EVER misleaded by what they think to be a fact?
How on earth would these people remember they died in 9/11?
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by gorgeous » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:30 pm

little kids still have life memories ...they fade as they get older...where is the evidence that you exist?
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:56 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:51 pm
why isn;t it true?
Because there is no physical evidence. It is really, really easy for anyone to say they have a memory of a past life. People do this because they tell lies, or they are insane, or seeking attention, or a thousand other reasons but all false.

To prove a memory of a past life, you need something that can be independently checked. For example, if someone claimed to have a memory of being a Pharaoh of ancient Egypt, and was able to lead modern archaeologists to an unknown ancient tomb, without ever having previously visited Egypt, that would be evidence. But it has never happened.


The mouthings of idiots is not evidence.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:17 pm

I believe in science, and science is based on weighing evidence. I believe all phenomena are ultimately attributed to science, even if we are incapable of finding our way along the entire path from the evidence to the explanation. Call it blind faith if you will, but it's faith well-earned. Science has proved itself outstanding for giving us much in the world that we enjoy today.

But I am disdainful of the shameful shortcuts some people take when confronted with evidence that is difficult to explain. I am reticent towards outright dismissal, ridicule and denial. I prefer the intellectually honest approach of giving the evidence a fair hearing, and then if I fail to find a reasonable explanation, I admit forthrightly that "I don't know."

I have examined some of the evidence presented for reincarnation, and I am confounded by it, albeit not convinced. There is no doubt a large portion of it that I am missing. To paraphrase A.C. Clarke, anything beyond our understanding is indistinguishable from magic. But that need not inspire us to declare such things "magic, or paranormal." There are no such things in my opinion. I don't like inserting implausible "placeholder" explanations on the basis that anything is better than acquiescencing to being a "believer." Where's the "belief" in simply admitting, "I don't know?"
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by gorgeous » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:56 pm
gorgeous wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:51 pm
why isn;t it true?
Because there is no physical evidence. It is really, really easy for anyone to say they have a memory of a past life. People do this because they tell lies, or they are insane, or seeking attention, or a thousand other reasons but all false.

To prove a memory of a past life, you need something that can be independently checked. For example, if someone claimed to have a memory of being a Pharaoh of ancient Egypt, and was able to lead modern archaeologists to an unknown ancient tomb, without ever having previously visited Egypt, that would be evidence. But it has never happened.
-----would only be evidence of a tomb...no saying how it was found....still waiting on evidence that you exist....

The mouthings of idiots is not evidence.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:32 pm

False memory is a thing. I've read some studies. You can actually convince people that they remember something that never happened. Apparently Catholics are the most susceptible.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:41 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:32 pm
False memory is a thing. I've read some studies. You can actually convince people that they remember something that never happened. Apparently Catholics are the most susceptible.
False memory is definitely a thing. I, myself have recalled details from years ago that turn out to be quite wrong. But what's a little unsettling is when small children purportedly recall intricate details from someone else's life. This skeptic has not yet found a suitable explanation for that.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:52 pm

The thing is we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I suspect they're coached by parents who do it for the attention.

That's the Occam's Razor explanation.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:27 am

Also the best explanation.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:34 am

People are {!#%@} in the head.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:53 am

You guys are afraid to think it through. The easiest explanation doesn't always square with the facts.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by mirror93 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:58 am

gorgeous wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:30 pm
little kids still have life memories ...they fade as they get older...where is the evidence that you exist?
Are you talking to a stone or with a person? Ask yourself this idiotic question you just asked me... or try talking with an online bot and see the difference. I can't confirm my existence to you, I just say that I exist because I know that I do, I think, I memorize, I exist since I born..... now you can doubt all you want, I'm still here with or without you
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:06 am

landrew wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:53 am
You guys are afraid to think it through. The easiest explanation doesn't always square with the facts.
You need to get back on your meds, mate. You're slipping.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:23 am

gorgeous wrote: why isn;t (sic) it true?
You are an idiot, claiming a person describing a dream, they had, is in fact them recalling from history as they are reincarnated.

That means every young boy who had sex with "99" from "Get Smart" is evidence that Barbara Feldon "got around" and never ages. That means every boy who dreams he lived through a zombie rampage is recalling earlier zombie rampages on earth.


Your claim is so ridiculously stupid, you are the only person on Earth stupid enough to make it.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:26 am

landrew wrote: You guys are afraid to think it through.
Nope. We understand science. You don't.

Set out the hypothesis you are claiming we "need to think through". That way we can laugh at you some more.
:lol:

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:47 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:26 am
landrew wrote: You guys are afraid to think it through.
Nope. We understand science. You don't.

Should I give back my Bachelors of Science or my Masters of Science or both?
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:54 am

landrew wrote: Should I give back my Bachelors of Science or my Masters of Science or both?
Yes. Do so immediately. You can get them back when you learn that you need to form a hypothesis first before reviewing evidence for that hypothesis. .

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:54 am
landrew wrote: Should I give back my Bachelors of Science or my Masters of Science or both?
Yes. Do so immediately. You can get them back when you learn that you need to form a hypothesis first before reviewing evidence for that hypothesis. .
Well, you can notice a pattern, and form a hypothesis. But then you need to back it up with solid evidence.

The problem with these woo guys is they've got all the hypotheses and zero {!#%@} evidence.

Show me the mechanism by which memories are transcribed into somatic cell DNA, or go home.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:07 am

Particle memory. :-P
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:39 am

Scrams can stay. She's with me.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Wordbird » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:51 pm

Kamil wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:54 am
I found this interesting video on youtube, with children recalling supposed past lives. They seem genuine, do you think this demonstrates that reincarnation exists?

I've seen this very thing. The boy who recalls an island called Barra in surprising detail is particularly convincing.

No, I don't believe in past lives, but I'm not terribly set on that.

I do, however, believe in genetic memory, because it's been demonstrated that it's real.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... nerations/

What I think is more likely than past lives or a spirit, is that if enough mice were taught to fear cherry blossoms, unrelated mice would start to fear them. Quantum entanglement is a thing. Some molecules can self-arrange. This is not outside the realm of scientific possibility.

So maybe memory just doesn't work like we think it does.

The first time I saw a cockroach, I knew it was bad. I was afraid of it.

There are more things in heaven and earth than are drempt of in my philosophy... and I can remember some of them.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm

Wordbird wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:51 pm
Kamil wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:54 am
I found this interesting video on youtube, with children recalling supposed past lives. They seem genuine, do you think this demonstrates that reincarnation exists?
I've seen this very thing. The boy who recalls an island called Barra in surprising detail is particularly convincing.

No, I don't believe in past lives, but I'm not terribly set on that.

I do, however, believe in genetic memory, because it's been demonstrated that it's real.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... nerations/

What I think is more likely than past lives or a spirit, is that if enough mice were taught to fear cherry blossoms, unrelated mice would start to fear them. Quantum entanglement is a thing. Some molecules can self-arrange. This is not outside the realm of scientific possibility.

So maybe memory just doesn't work like we think it does.

The first time I saw a cockroach, I knew it was bad. I was afraid of it.

There are more things in heaven and earth than are drempt of in my philosophy... and I can remember some of them.
Hard to dismiss rationally, but then again, I'm off my meds.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Wordbird » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:08 pm

landrew wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm
Hard to dismiss rationally, but then again, I'm off my meds.
I became truly enlightened when I was so skeptical that I questioned my own skepticism.

"I can't even know that I know nothing!"

I surpassed Socrates and imploded into a sparkly rainbow.

Image

Feel better about being off your meds now?

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:20 pm

Wordbird wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:08 pm
landrew wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm
Hard to dismiss rationally, but then again, I'm off my meds.
I became truly enlightened when I was so skeptical that I questioned my own skepticism.

"I can't even know that I know nothing!"

I surpassed Socrates and imploded into a sparkly rainbow.

Image

Feel better about being off your meds now?
Sometimes I'm too much the scientist for this forum. I learned a few years ago that you can't make any headway here arguing for giving the other side a "fair hearing." You end up being endlessly crucified and labeled a woo-woo believer if you don't dismiss outrightly some of the evidence presented for such subjects.

I can't remember the podcast, but Michael Shermer argues for giving the other side every chance to support their claims. He talked about going to meet with some people who make assertions about things to which he disagrees as a skeptic, heard them out, and remains friends with them, despite their differing views. I tend to agree, but I don't discuss it much anymore on this forum. I prefer to talk about nicer things.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Wordbird » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:31 pm

landrew wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:20 pm
Sometimes I'm too much the scientist for this forum.
Not at all. Takes all kinds. You said this yourself a few pages back: The forum would be boring.

What would the world be if there wasn't always someone to argue each side?

A theocracy. You can start with anything and become a theocracy... even science, if the scientists believe in believing things, rather than questioning them.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:56 pm

Wordbird wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:31 pm
landrew wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:20 pm
Sometimes I'm too much the scientist for this forum.
Not at all. Takes all kinds. You said this yourself a few pages back: The forum would be boring.

What would the world be if there wasn't always someone to argue each side?

A theocracy. You can start with anything and become a theocracy... even science, if the scientists believe in believing things, rather than questioning them.
Unfortunately not all kinds stick around. The bullies tend to defend their turf by shouting down anyone who tries to introduce an alternative point of view.
As though that somehow wins the argument.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Wordbird » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:23 am

landrew wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:56 pm
Unfortunately not all kinds stick around. The bullies tend to defend their turf by shouting down anyone who tries to introduce an alternative point of view.
As though that somehow wins the argument.
Would you like to appreciate this forum a lot more?

As in, would you like to log on and feel like you'd stepped into a genuine intellectual's version of Heaven?

I can make that happen.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:48 am

Good luck, chickadee!

Obviously some behaviours are programmed in our DNA. Like sucking tits and gripping a branch. And I'll even agree there may be some evidence for some epigenetic transfer of environmental conditions betwixt generations.

But you've got a long way to go to convince us "bullies" that you can transcribe complex and detailed memories of a progenitor's life into a single haploid cell.

And more often than not in these claims of past life experience, they're not even related!

Unless you're suggesting there's some other mystical mysterious magical "dimension" where our "souls" are stored...

Sounds like ghost stories to me. And as I've said before, if ghosts were as common as birds, we'd be flying ghost planes.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:18 pm

what do you think is in all the non-physcical dimensions?
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by Major Malfunction » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:08 pm

I'm gonna be all philosophical here...

The Universe is a sound. And everything in the Universe right down to subatomic particles and below are harmonic waves. Ripples in the fabric of space (whatever space is made of). The waves tend to glom together in the lowest energy form, as certain frequencies tend to cancel each other out, but form longer wavelengths in doing so.

But for you, imagine a riffle in a river caused by a pepple. You are the riffle. The standing wave. You exist in the river. You are part of the river.

But when that pebble rolls over, that standing wave is gone.

The river doesn't remember the riffle. The river doesn't give a {!#%@}. And there's no way to recall the riffle. It's gone. It spreads downstream into entropy in seconds.

You can't catch it and put it back.
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:07 pm

seth-----“The new individual has a deeply buried memory of its past lives, but the personal consciousness of the last reincarnated self must not be superimposed upon this new identity.”
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:08 pm

how do you know the river doesn't remember? where is the evidence ?
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:14 pm

Aintcha glad your shower doesn't...
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Re: opinions on past lives?

Post by landrew » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:28 pm

We don't even know how much we don't know.
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