Brexit

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Austin Harper
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Re: Brexit

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:08 pm

I'd love to, would you mind buying the ticket? In the meantime, you could let me know exactly where in those cities I need to go. Could you go take a picture of those lovely "no-go area" signs? Of course you can't, because no-go areas don't exist and the articles you've linked to (with the exception of the made-up anonymous one) say exactly that.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:18 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:08 pm
I'd love to, would you mind buying the ticket? In the meantime, you could let me know exactly where in those cities I need to go. Could you go take a picture of those lovely "no-go area" signs? Of course you can't, because no-go areas don't exist and the articles you've linked to (with the exception of the made-up anonymous one) say exactly that.
You can check the demographics of the places I have listed. Get yourself on a plane and check those places out, in many parts you will find yourself thinking you are in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Jamaica, etc.
“When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.” - Robert Pirsig

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Re: Brexit

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 pm

You mean like in the no-go zone of Tower Hamlets you cited where they were clearly selling pork?
Image
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:35 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 pm
You mean like in the no-go zone of Tower Hamlets you cited where they were clearly selling pork?
Image
Cherry-picking an image, eh?

I'll do the same:

Image
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Re: Brexit

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:38 pm

I didn't cherry pick the image, it's from your own article that you forgot to read. You only read the headline and din't realize it was satire. Had you read any of your own articles you would know that no-go zones aren't real.

That image you just shared just shows two guys who don't think other people should vote, which is stupid. IT doesn't show people keeping the police out of anywhere.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:38 pm
I didn't cherry pick the image, it's from your own article that you forgot to read. You only read the headline and din't realize it was satire. Had you read any of your own articles you would know that no-go zones aren't real.

That image you just shared just shows two guys who don't think other people should vote, which is stupid. IT doesn't show people keeping the police out of anywhere.
It's not from my "own article". You're deliberately misquoting me to suit your agenda. I didn't cite the article as proof of no-go zone areas. For someone who had the audacity to question my reading comprehension, you ought to look in the mirror!

A no-go zone area can also be defined as a place where individuals or groups cannot go.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:46 pm

Quoting your exact words and posting pictures from the articles you linked to isn't misquoting you.

And yes, a no-go area can be defined as a place where individuals or groups cannot go. But if that's the case, then how was somebody able to go there to take a picture?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:53 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:46 pm
Quoting your exact words and posting pictures from the articles you linked to isn't misquoting you.

And yes, a no-go area can be defined as a place where individuals or groups cannot go. But if that's the case, then how was somebody able to go there to take a picture?
You're a liar. I never used that article as proof of a no-go zone area.

My original post with regards to that article:
Articles such as:

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and- ... -london-2/

Do not debunk the claim. There could be only 5% Muslim population in a place and the place could still be a no-go zone.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29850&start=680#p701609

Different times of the day, different days, we don't know the background of the person taking the photo, etc.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:54 pm

They don't debunk the claim, but they don't support the claim either. You have not yet shown one single no-go zone. Would you like to give us an example now?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:01 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:54 pm
They don't debunk the claim, but they don't support the claim either. You have not yet shown one single no-go zone. Would you like to give us an example now?
I've listed several places you can quite freely go to and see that those areas are overrun by immigrants.

I think you have a different idea of what a "no-go area" means.
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Re: Brexit

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:03 pm

What does it mean?
.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:04 pm

So they're only no-go zones if you're afraid of immigrants. Nobody is keeping you out.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:08 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:04 pm
So they're only no-go zones if you're afraid of immigrants. Nobody is keeping you out.
So you're now twisting my words. :roll:

I shall respond tomorrow.
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Re: Brexit

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:12 pm

G'nite.
.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:17 pm

It's terrible, y'know?
You start a nice thread in a decent area and suddenly it's full of racist scumbags.

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Re: Brexit

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:18 pm

:laff:
.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:59 am

Goody67 wrote: Do you live in the UK? :? It seems strange that someone would even question that statement.
I lived in Westbourne Park and then around the South East in the 1970's.

I enjoyed many an ethnic riot and the occasional fight against NF skinheads. What areas of London are you claiming are "no go"s for police?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:03 am

Goody67 wrote: I've listed several places you can quite freely go to and see that those areas are overrun by immigrants.
Westbourne Park was a black suburb . I lived there. Why is this a problem?

I currently live in a Greek suburb in Sydney. Should I be frightened of orthodox churches and souvlaki too?
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:04 am

I find Catholic Churches to be a no go zone...especially on sundays.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:53 am

Just a reminder ...
After last night's fiasco (for Mrs May) in which her deal was thrown out of the window (again! When will she learn?) a further vote will be held tonight on whether a no-deal Brexit is favoured in Parliament. Whether anyone likes it or not, a rejection of no-deal at this point in time will send a clear signal to the EU Commission that they are at liberty to turn the screws as hard as they like. It's silly timing whether you are pro or anti.

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Re: Brexit

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:21 am

Well, that's pretty obvious anyway, isn't it?

Peace
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:48 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:59 am
I lived in Westbourne Park and then around the South East in the 1970's.

I enjoyed many an ethnic riot and the occasional fight against NF skinheads. What areas of London are you claiming are "no go"s for police?
Why would you enjoy violence? :? As repugnant as the NF skinheads were back in the day, violence did not and does not solve anything. On a side note, it's actually a shame that the NF managed to hijack the skinhead subculture, I know quite a few traditional skinheads and I'm sure you can imagine the stereotypes those people encounter every day.

Tower Hamlets for one. Are you seriously trying to contest that there are not some areas in London in which people are concerned about their safety and/or uncomfortable to walk through at certain times of the day?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:53 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:03 am
Westbourne Park was a black suburb . I lived there. Why is this a problem?

I currently live in a Greek suburb in Sydney. Should I be frightened of orthodox churches and souvlaki too?
:lol: :lol:
When did I ever say that was a problem? I have never even mentioned race, I said:
It's not rocket science to recognise that people who live together who don't share similar values will clash.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29850&start=680#p701627

People that share similar values, anywhere in the world, tend to get along better with each other than people who practice totally different values.
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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:56 am

I hate to say this in a BREXIT thread - but how one feels is ones own problem and definately NOT the problem of others. If you don't want to feel a certain way, change yourself or in this case, move along.

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Re: Brexit

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:57 am

Poodle wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:53 am
Just a reminder ...
After last night's fiasco (for Mrs May) in which her deal was thrown out of the window (again! When will she learn?) a further vote will be held tonight on whether a no-deal Brexit is favoured in Parliament. Whether anyone likes it or not, a rejection of no-deal at this point in time will send a clear signal to the EU Commission that they are at liberty to turn the screws as hard as they like. It's silly timing whether you are pro or anti.
seriously, your perspective is mighty biased.
The EU commission has been nothing but transparent the whole time. There was no "turning of screws", just a need for the UK to negotiate in good faith - which hasn't happened yet.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:02 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:21 am
Well, that's pretty obvious anyway, isn't it?

Peace
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You and I may think it obvious, Dan. But the way this is being handled on BOTH sides strikes me as silly. It reminds me of nothing more than the "I'm not friends with you, although yesterday I was" stuff which goes on in school playgrounds all around the world.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:11 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:57 am
Poodle wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:53 am
Just a reminder ...
After last night's fiasco (for Mrs May) in which her deal was thrown out of the window (again! When will she learn?) a further vote will be held tonight on whether a no-deal Brexit is favoured in Parliament. Whether anyone likes it or not, a rejection of no-deal at this point in time will send a clear signal to the EU Commission that they are at liberty to turn the screws as hard as they like. It's silly timing whether you are pro or anti.
seriously, your perspective is mighty biased.
The EU commission has been nothing but transparent the whole time. There was no "turning of screws", just a need for the UK to negotiate in good faith - which hasn't happened yet.
I'm afraid I disagree with your view on both parts of your statement, EM. Matters have certainly been handled badly on the UK side (sometimes, it seems, by a gang of clowns), but the impression of the EU Commission received by a lot of Brits (not all, certainly) is one of obstruction and dictation. No doubt neither view is completely correct. What really dismays me is the vitriol directed towards a state doling what it has the legal right to do. As you know, I was a Remain voter at the referendum. I have changed my mind because I think I've developed a more realistic view of the nature of the beast.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:20 pm

Uhhhhh.....just from memory........the only thing that you (Poodle) have mentioned as "unreasonable" coming from the EU is that they have not agreed to some kind of electronic/invisible border control between the Irelands. That seems entirely reasonable to me.......I think you countered that electronic borders were in place elsewhere but from the videos I've seen I think its true that all such borders have other agreements allowing for the free transit of people and so forth....which is what UK refuses to agree to..................OH! I keep forgetting to ask: on such an important issue, why wasn't an Exit Agreement/terms and conditions agreed to BEFORE the vote? Failing to do so really is a kind of fraud on the public: here vote your emotions on this pig in a basket and see what you get.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:24 pm

Well, it doesn't really matter, bobbo, as both the UK and (I believe) Leo Varadkar of the Republic have, several times, stated that they will NOT erect a hard border. Only one organisation is insisting that it MUST happen. The 'no hard border' situation is, very simply, a return to the conditions pertaining immediately before both Ireland and the UK joined the EEC (now masquerading as the EU).

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:32 pm

Thanks Poodle. So my memory is correct? EU being totally reasonable and the UK wants conditions to be the same as pre ECC? Well....thats simple: just have Ireland exit the EU as well. I mean........Is Ireland being unreasonable too? Ha, ha: Scotland to be unreasonable next year?

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Re: Brexit

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:36 pm

The EU has to speak with the voice of all it's members, and therefore CANNOT be as flexible as a single country with the fraction of the population and, more importantly, politicians.
The folly of the UK and all Brexiteers was to assume that an exit would be negotiated as if the UK was a single country, and the rest of the EU another single country.
Turns out neither is true - what a surprise.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:54 pm

I do wonder about the Good Friday agreement. Is that still a thing????? I KNOW........BUT HEAR ME OUT. I don't know why a "hard border" would be such a catastrophe today ((unless people want it to be?))) because The Troubles was all about British Oppression and Religious Discrimination. None of that will be present with the new wall. It will all be the EU's fault and both Irelands can blame Brussels while getting along with one another.

Looking backwards..............is always...............just that.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:06 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:56 am
I hate to say this in a BREXIT thread - but how one feels is ones own problem and definately NOT the problem of others. If you don't want to feel a certain way, change yourself or in this case, move along.
How one feels is "definitely NOT the problem of others"? :? How one feels is down to both their own actions and other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - Brexiteers feel angry because of the way Remainers are behaving and the Remainers feel angry because of the way Brexiteers are behaving.
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Re: Brexit

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:10 pm

no, it isn't about behavior, it is about power.
If it was about Remainers and Brexiteers, there would have been another referendum already.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:24 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:10 pm
no, it isn't about behavior, it is about power.
If it was about Remainers and Brexiteers, there would have been another referendum already.
....... and a better considered conclusion not to leave.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:41 pm

Put it all on the back burner for a couple of hours more - Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour party, has tabled a vote of no confidence in the Government. It will be held this evening, obviously before the latest Brexit vote. It's unlikely that he'll win it but, if he does, Mrs May will be obliged to resign and her office will be taken over temporarily by the Deputy Prime Minister - which will be interesting as we don't have one at the moment. For DPM, read "a senior Conservative who can command the trust and respect of the party". I still have no idea who it may be.

EDIT: No, no ... Jeremy's changed his mind and has untabled his motion after all. For at least one more Brexi vote, then, May won't face a vote of no confidence, Unless she loses, in which case everyone's boots will be going in there.

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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:59 pm

The EU would have an opportunity to self-reflect and make positive changes as a result of the UK separating from the union. I think it's probably true that the UK would generally suffer from not being part of a large trade bloc, therefore it seems likely that if the UK leaves the EU, it would eventually have to reenter with renegotiated terms.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:07 pm

A crystal clear (as mud) message from Parliament in tonight's vote. By a majority of only 4, the House decided that the UK should NOT leave the EU without a deal under any circumstances. The votes over the last couple of days are advisory only - which is a good thing as, unless an extension is requested by the UK and granted by the EU, we will be leaving on March 29th, deal or no deal. The EU could grant an extension - but that would happen only if the UK come up with practical proposals - yet another plan, in other words - and that is unlikely as things stand at the moment. The only plan in existence is Mrs May's proposals and that has already been severely voted down in Parliament.
So, it appears that the UK is the unstoppable object and the EU is the immovable barrier. That one's been around since Ancient Greece.

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Re: Brexit

Post by fromthehills » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:38 am

Poodle wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:07 pm
A crystal clear (as mud) message from Parliament in tonight's vote. By a majority of only 4, the House decided that the UK should NOT leave the EU without a deal under any circumstances. The votes over the last couple of days are advisory only - which is a good thing as, unless an extension is requested by the UK and granted by the EU, we will be leaving on March 29th, deal or no deal. The EU could grant an extension - but that would happen only if the UK come up with practical proposals - yet another plan, in other words - and that is unlikely as things stand at the moment. The only plan in existence is Mrs May's proposals and that has already been severely voted down in Parliament.
So, it appears that the UK is the unstoppable object and the EU is the immovable barrier. That one's been around since Ancient Greece.
They’re probably going to put it up for a third vote, just in case everyone changes their mind, based on no better evidence. But a second referendum, with 2 years of evidence that any Brexit deal is shittier than being in the EU is somehow undemocratic...?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:27 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: I lived in Westbourne Park and then around the South East in the 1970's. I enjoyed many an ethnic riot and the occasional fight against NF skinheads. What areas of London are you claiming are "no go"s for police?
Goody67 wrote:Why would you enjoy violence?
I enjoyed fighting the National Front and skinheads. They caused the violence. That's why I was arguing against you in the anti holocaust denial subforum.

Goody67 wrote: As repugnant as the NF skinheads were back in the day, violence did not and does not solve anything.
Yes it did. You weren't there. I was.
Goody67 wrote: I know quite a few traditional skinheads and I'm sure you can imagine the stereotypes those people encounter every day.
No. Tell us all about "poor skinheads suffering in their bover boots and braces" (Are you suggesting they are sad emotional people who went to SHAM69 gigs to hand out flowers?). :lol:

You are a rather old 52 year old, right wing skin head aren't you? :lol: :lol: