A Peace Conspiracy

Who else knows what we know, Jerry?
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:46 am

...and from your links that don't Mention RT News, but do mention that over half his income comes from a totally USA Source, and implies that most of the rest does too, ..that doesn't leave anywhere near 200K to come from RT or any other source.

Will you now demand that Math leave the forum???
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:54 am

landrew wrote:Snowden didn't sell secrets to the Russians. He revealed to the public those things he deemed to be government crimes against the citizens of the United States.
You have made so many errors I have to list them

1) Snowden stole UK and Australia secret documents and not just USA documents
2) Of the 1.5 million documents, Snowden stole, including US secrets, only a handful were crimes but rather simple defence secrets of the NSA and related agencies.
3) He sent the documents to Wikileaks which was Russian controlled in 2012.
4) He was defecting to China who refused him, so he defected to Russia, who paid for his accommodation, food and gave him a job giving public speeches that appear on government controlled "Russia Today"

Kim Philby did exactly the same except Kim Philby refused to give speeches in East Germany.

landrew wrote: As he is now a world figure he is entitled to the fees people are willing to pay him to speak. He has no other apparent means of financial support.
So you have just worked out that he was being funded by Russia since 2013.
landrew wrote: He didn't betray his country and its citizens to foreign powers for personal financial gain.
He did exactly that when he go onto the Aeroflot flight to defect to Russia. He also gave away Australian and UK secrets to Russia.
.
landrew wrote: He risked nearly everything....
He increased his income by stealing secrets.
landrew wrote:to reveal the abuses of the government
and UK government and Australian government, which didn't commit any crimes ...
landrew wrote:If the word "patriot" fits, he is indeed that.
The word is paid "Russian Spy" to spy on the USA, Australia and UK.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:15 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:54 am
landrew wrote:Snowden didn't sell secrets to the Russians. He revealed to the public those things he deemed to be government crimes against the citizens of the United States.
You have made so many errors I have to list them

You are entitled to your narrow backwards view. Very few thinking people agree with you, except those who support the evil corruption that Snowden heroically exposed.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:34 am

landrew wrote: You are entitled to your narrow backwards view.
No. It is the exact opposite. Snowden stole over 1.5 million secret documents from the USA and Australia and the UK.

Are you pretending that all of them show "USA crimes" and not military and political secrets? What do you think the Russians did with the rest of the documents? Why do you think spies steal secret documents?

Secondly, who do think was paying Snowden's accommodation, airflights and salary since 2012?

Thirdly, if Snowden was a "whistle blower" do you claim he read all 1.5 million documents to determine the crime?

Fourthly, (and my favourite) why would TV1 Russia, the government TV station, whose chairman is the director of the Russian foreign intelligence service, supply Snowden a studio to record his anti-West speeches that are broadcast back into the west?

You are the sort of idiot who doesn't think that Russia interfered in the USA elections, by using fake internet bloggers, fake information and Moscow composed talk points. :lol: :lol:

Snowden is wanted in the US on three charges under the Espionage Act, carrying a minimum of 10 years each in jail.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by TJrandom » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:42 am

Plus I suspect that he isn't paying his taxes... :oldman:

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:28 pm

Trump yields to deep state and the Likud lobby on Syrian and Afghan withdrawals:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/02/03/tru ... -pressure/

...and Iraqi leader chastises Trump:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/ ... 56454.html
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:06 am

TJrandom wrote: Plus I suspect that he isn't paying his taxes..
As Snowden spent more than 182 days of the financial year in Russia, he paid tax in Russia, since 2013, under the 1994 Double tax agreement. :D

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:08 am

Tom Palven wrote:Trump yields to deep state and the Likud lobby on Syrian and Afghan withdrawals:
ISIS has killed USA soldiers since Trump said "ISIS was defeated". Didn't you know? :lol:

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:58 am

Pentagon says Yes, State Dept. says No.
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/02/07/us- ... -of-april/

Will the real Deep State please stand up?

CIA, give us your thoughts.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by OutOfBreath » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:08 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:58 am
Pentagon says Yes, State Dept. says No.
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/02/07/us- ... -of-april/

Will the real Deep State please stand up?

CIA, give us your thoughts.
That's just trump at his best/worst. Uncoordinated with his own government, the consequence being confusion and him having options for blame/credit as the wind blows.

Peace
Dan
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:37 pm

Deep state - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state

A deep state is a form of clandestine government made up of hidden or covert networks of power operating independently of a nation's political leadership, ...
Doesn't really fit Pentagon, State Departmetn, CIA. Those are actually "The State" and sadly, not too much deep about them.

Deep state in the United States - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_stat ... ted_States

In the United States, the term "deep state" is used in political messaging to describe a controversial belief.
Yep. We need to root those bastards at the Pentagon, State Department, CIA out because they aren't American.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:15 am

Tom Palven wrote: Pentagon says Yes, State Dept. says No.
Will the real Deep State please stand up?
You have already forgotten that Trump appointed his own Secretary of State and his own Secretary of Defense.

You are so permanently confused, you think Trump appointed his own "Deep State Conspiracy " members.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:49 am

To be fair...........who wants THAT????..............by any definition of Deep State: it exists if at all BELOW the level of appointed figure heads. Its what makes the British Civil Service organizations such a marvel to behold. Best shows on TV: the Yes Minister Series on UK tv that were redone in USA as House of Cards that I have not seen. the UK version would be hard to beat what with the Deep State Civil Servant running interference.

My favorite line from the Deep State to the Elected Official: "Yes........that would be a very brave thing to do." Ha, ha....always stopped the PM in his tracks. FANTASTIC SHOW. I assume the Kevin Spacey show is too with a different blacker motif?

Hmmm...strikes me the Yes Minister I just referenced is a different UK show from the one House of Cards is about........different leads. And the UK version of House of Cards was very dark.

there is "good tv." You just have to look for it.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:18 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: ............by any definition of Deep State: it exists if at all BELOW the level of appointed figure heads.
Soooooo...... when government employee Snowden stole 1.5 million documents despite the specific written orders of the director, placed by the elected government,.........he must be part of the "Deep State"

Write out your exact definition of the "Deep State Conspiracy" Bobbo. Tom Palven refuses to do so.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:25 am

I said if it exists at all. Another example of: Matticism No 5: You can't find one iota of evidence to prove the negative I made up and ascribed to you. aka: I've never said anything close to I believe in the Deep State nor of any conspiracies. Other than yours........and whatever you are smoking.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:41 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: I said if it exists at all.
The Deep State conspiracy doesn't exist. You can't even define it without including Snowden and Manning.

Have you told Tom Palven yet?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:44 am

Matticism No 6: writing for an audience of one.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Matticism No 6: writing for an audience of one.
Tom Palven responded (that's one person) You responded ( that's two people)

Let us know when you learn to count past one Bobbo.
:lol: :lol:

How's your definition of "The Deep State Conspiracy going Bobbo?

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Matticism No 6: writing for an audience of one.
Tom Palven responded (that's one person)
Not since you started writing for yourself.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: You responded ( that's two people)
I'm making fun of you as in:
Matticism No 7: Taking credit for being completely humiliated as when Trump lauds the number of Female Congress Creeps.


Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 am
Let us know when you learn to count past one Bobbo.
I'm on 19 for direct questions you refuse to answer and 10 for the Matticisms you use repeatedly. Q-20--might be wrong count, and I think I asked you this direct question before: is your memory this bad.or is it the checkers mentality where you ask questions that are answered JUST BEFORE YOU ASK? bwhahahahaha. Matt thinks he has an audience of one: his own delusion of expertise.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:38 am
How's your definition of "The Deep State Conspiracy going Bobbo?

Can't you read? I've never made any claim anywhere near that. Time for another Matticism, but they come so fast, I'm a bit worn out. Quite the mania.............
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:56 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Matticism No 6: writing for an audience of one.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Tom Palven responded (that's one person) You responded ( that's two people)

Let us know when you learn to count past one Bobbo.
:lol: :lol:
So you still can't count past one. Have you asked your peers Tom Palven, Gorgeous and Jo 753 to give you lessons? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I see, from your incoherent post above, you are also confused and bewildered by the font colour formatting again. How drunk are you this time? :lol: :lol:

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:49 am

North and South Korea to launch joint Olympic bid:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... r-olympics

Bolton be damned, another development to make neocons cringe. :mrgreen:
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:52 am

Was it Bolton's antics that sabotaged further peace negotiations, or something else?
https://original.antiwar.com/Michael_Ha ... it-failed/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by mack_10 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:48 am

This is funny.
You realise that the only reason rump and kim meet is because both love to be the centre of attention, they are narcissists
Kim will never give up his weapons, it makes him a major player, in his mind
rump just wants a distraction, from the inconvenients truths being told by cohen

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by landrew » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:15 pm

mack_10 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:48 am
This is funny.
You realise that the only reason rump and kim meet is because both love to be the centre of attention, they are narcissists
Kim will never give up his weapons, it makes him a major player, in his mind
rump just wants a distraction, from the inconvenients truths being told by cohen
There's an undeniable kinship between narcissists. Trump invited several to work with him in the Whitehouse. I believe Stalin and Hitler admired each other, despite their war of annihilation against each other. Trump and Kim obviously enjoy each other's company.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:51 am

Tom Palven wrote: Was it Bolton's antics that sabotaged further peace negotiations, or something else?
You really are an idiot. The USA does what it is told. Your beloved Trump does as he is told.

Vietnam bought 20 million dollars of Boeing passenger aircraft, three days before the conference, at a US government discount for hosting the conference.

China got a moratorium on US tariff increases for helping Jong Un go to Vietnam

Jong Un got a photo opportunity with the USA president for domestic propaganda purposes,

Lavrov, was in Hanoi the entire time orchestrating all this for Russia's allies.

Thanks to Trump yet again, for helping Russia and Communist Vietnam, Communist China and Communist North Korea.
:lol:

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:24 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:51 am


Vietnam bought 20 million dollars of Boeing passenger aircraft, three days before the conference, at a US government discount for hosting the conference.
20 Mill? What did they get? Sounds like just the shell.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:02 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: 20 Mill? What did they get? Sounds like just the shell.
I apologise. I meant AUD 20 billion.

Vietnam’s Bamboo Airways and VietJet Aviation JSC signed deals to buy 110 aircraft from Boeing Co. during President Donald Trump’s visit to Hanoi for a summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un.

Bamboo agreed to purchase 10 787-9 Dreamliners worth about $3 billion, while VietJet’s order is for 100 737 Max planes valued at $12.7 billion

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... anoi-visit

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:51 am
Tom Palven wrote: Was it Bolton's antics that sabotaged further peace negotiations, or something else?
You really are an idiot. The USA does what it is told. Your beloved Trump does as he is told.


If you really think that John Bolton and other unelected US deep state neoconservatives take their marching orders from Putin rather than Bibi Netanyahu, you must be smoking some really powerful grass down under.
:lol:
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... -in-syria/
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:18 am

Tom Palven wrote: If you really think that John Bolton and other unelected US deep state neoconservatives take their marching orders from Putin rather than Bibi Netanyahu, you must be smoking some really powerful grass down under.
:lol:
Your hero, Donald Trump appointed John Bolton. You keep forgetting that as you are retarded remember?

Donald Trump is manipulated by Putin. Bolton's appointment makes the rest of the world hate the USA even more. You keep forgetting that as you are retarded remember? :lol: :lol:

In Hanoi, Lavrov enjoyed drinks with Vietnam, China and North Korea as they all won, while Trump made the USA look like "clown school" again.

You really don't have a clue do you?
:lol: :lol:

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A Peace

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:07 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:18 am
Tom Palven wrote: If you really think that John Bolton and other unelected US deep state neoconservatives take their marching orders from Putin rather than Bibi Netanyahu, you must be smoking some really powerful grass down under.
:lol:
Donald Trump is manipulated by Putin.


Donald Trump is Commander--in--Chief in name only:
www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featu ... ck-cheney/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:18 am
Tom Palven wrote: If you really think that John Bolton and other unelected US deep state neoconservatives take their marching orders from Putin rather than Bibi Netanyahu, you must be smoking some really powerful grass down under.
:lol:
Donald Trump is manipulated by Putin.


Donald Trump is Commander-in-Chief in name only:
www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featu ... ck-cheney/

Btw, is your real name mentioned in this article?
https://rantfoundry.wordpress.com/2018/ ... o-chamber/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:37 am

Tom Palven wrote:Donald Trump is Commander--in--Chief in name only
Nope. Trump is commander in chief. He is making idiotic decision assisted by the idiots he appointed. :lol:

Ron Paul, who was thrown out of the Libertarian Party for being too right wing is simply an insignificant isolationist. :lol:

Ron Paul extremist conservative idiot : "Get rid of Reserve Bank, CIA, FBI and Homeland Security. Return to gold standard
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:40 am

Tom Palven wrote: Btw, is your real name mentioned in this article?
https://rantfoundry.wordpress.com/2018/ ... o-chamber/
No you complete idiot, because the article is on the Liberal Party (Conservative Party). As I have stated several times I am a member of the Labor Party (Socialist).

Senility is a real bummer for your memory recall isn't it?
:lol:

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:32 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:40 am
Tom Palven wrote: Btw, is your real name mentioned in this article?
https://rantfoundry.wordpress.com/2018/ ... o-chamber/
As I have stated several times I am a member of the Labor Party (Socialist).
This is the web. You can state that you are a New Guinea butterfly if you want to.

Fact is, you are a consistent apologist for lying, unelected, deep state neoconservatives, jumping into threads to defend their actions.

And you jump into threads to demonize whistleblowers who reveal the truth.

But yes, I’m an idiot to try to talk sense to a neocon sympathizer who steadfastly believes that state lies and aggression are the answers to everything.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by OutOfBreath » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:15 am

Tom, disagreeing with your conspiracy-prone views does not equate to being a "neo-con". Although Matt doesn't always play nice, I would never even consider putting him in the neo-con camp. There are many possible positions between neo-con and Ron Paul-ites.

Peace
Dan
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Tom Palven is an Idiot

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:20 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:15 am
Tom, disagreeing with your conspiracy-prone views does not equate to being a "neo-con". Although Matt doesn't always play nice, I would never even consider putting him in the neo-con camp.

Peace
Dan
Obviously, I would.

We disagree.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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OutOfBreath
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by OutOfBreath » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:29 am

Really?
wikipedia wrote:Neoconservatism (commonly shortened to neocon when labelling its adherents) is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among liberal hawks who became disenchanted with the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture, in particular the Vietnam protests. Some also began to question their liberal beliefs regarding domestic policies such as the Great Society.

Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including peace through strength (by means of military force), and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.[1][2]
I dont see any of that fitting. I only see him opposing-your-Ron-Paul-stuff-and-hence-he-must-be-the-enemy dichotomical fallacy in play here.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Tom Palven
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Tom Palven is an Idiot

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:35 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:29 am
Really?
wikipedia wrote:Neoconservatism (commonly shortened to neocon when labelling its adherents) is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s among liberal hawks who became disenchanted with the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture, in particular the Vietnam protests. Some also began to question their liberal beliefs regarding domestic policies such as the Great Society.

Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including peace through strength (by means of military force), and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.[1][2]
I dont see any of that fitting. I only see him opposing-your-Ron-Paul-stuff-and-hence-he-must-be-the-enemy dichotomical fallacy in play here.

Peace
Dan
Yes, we disagree.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by OutOfBreath » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:44 am

Just testing, where would you place me then? Am I a neo-con for thinking the Lew Rockwells and Ron Pauls of the world are kinda kooky and agenda-driven for their own causes? Am I a neocon for thinking states sometimes are legitimate in using force? Where do you draw the line for calling people Bush-boys?

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:50 am

Ha, ha..........from what I've seen Matt has posted mostly as an Anti-Tom Palven poster. I don't think political affiliations has drilled down that far....yet.
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