When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Scott Mayers » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:55 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:46 am
Scot: you constantly put all people of any general description into a monolithic group that can only think one way.

People are more variable even when united by a common issue. I once belong to a Fern Club but some members also collected orchids. I mean....can you believe that?
Look, I'm too tired and need to go. I'll check up back tomorrow or some later day, if I'm not occupied by something else. I really don't have any disrespect for others here, ...even those who put me on ignore.
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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:57 am

Well Scot, you are half way there. The length is about right. Take the crazy out and you may only have about 5 words. I'd add a bit more.
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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:58 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:55 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:46 am
Scot: you constantly put all people of any general description into a monolithic group that can only think one way.

People are more variable even when united by a common issue. I once belong to a Fern Club but some members also collected orchids. I mean....can you believe that?
Look, I'm too tired and need to go. I'll check up back tomorrow or some later day, if I'm not occupied by something else. I really don't have any disrespect for others here, ...even those who put me on ignore.
..........and yet you post just as if you do.

buy that dictionary.......................................

Its not getting put on ignore thats abusive........its the constant crowing about it that........isn't either. Ha, ha..........
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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Scott Mayers » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:29 am

Thank you guys. I'll leave you to sing accolades to each other about how well you contributed to making this forum worthy of its goals.
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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:35 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:29 am
Thank you guys. I'll leave you to sing accolades to each other about how well you contributed to making this forum worthy of its goals.
Losing at checkers, kicks over game board and stomps away indignant...... :roll:

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:06 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:24 pm
I think Scott need to remember how Jewish Americans were very prominent in the Civil Rights Movement during the 1960’s.
Reading about the Ustashas I have top of mind what so many young Serbian men did in response to their being targeted (singled out for mass removal, internment and slaughter, or forced conversion): in large numbers they joined the Communist-led Partisans and helped destroy the state and party which had carried out genocide against Serbs in Croatia. I know, Scott wanted to bait, demean and attack Jews, but I've been thinking about Serbian responses to genocide.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:51 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:35 am
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:29 am
Thank you guys. I'll leave you to sing accolades to each other about how well you contributed to making this forum worthy of its goals.
Losing at checkers, kicks over game board and stomps away indignant...... :roll:
Sounds like a plan. I can think of a few others Scott might take with him, OK?
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:11 pm

Does this count?
:D
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:04 pm

I get a "page doesn't exist" message, so maybe not? :)
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:51 pm

LOL, for some reason that’s not coming through.

This is a copy:
I'll deny whatever the {!#%@} I please, schizoid.
I said I don't CARE if it happened or not.
Now {!#%@} off.

I think sometimes I annoy people. I don’t know why. I’m such a pleasant fellow.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:55 pm

He also said this (his name is “Somali Pirate):
People die grotesque deaths every millisecond and you expect people to give a {!#%@} about some {!#%@} that happened almost a century ago that nobody alive today had anything to do with. {!#%@} off fed.

The tweets aren’t cooperating.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:44 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:51 am
Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:35 am
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:29 am
Thank you guys. I'll leave you to sing accolades to each other about how well you contributed to making this forum worthy of its goals.
Losing at checkers, kicks over game board and stomps away indignant...... :roll:
Sounds like a plan. I can think of a few others Scott might take with him, OK?
Of note, Scott posts much the same way on every subject he has joined. So he looks anti-holocaust denial in some way, anti-global warming in some way, and anti-Modern Physicts in some way. Hard to tell given his level of private vocabulary and logic. "probably" anti-Jewish as well from the few tells he made, but such a charge should always be direct rather than inferred.

What he should have done of course is put everyone on ignore and then crow about it trying to get everyone else to put everyone on ignore as well. He left prematurely not letting the drum beat of demands for conformity drive him out by group demand. I think even Scott would recognize this as the "singularity."

I did think the intermediate response of being responsive on point with the requested resources is what broke his back. He's just getting general arguments on the other issues off this subforum.

.....................but I dither.
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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:04 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:06 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:24 pm
I think Scott need to remember how Jewish Americans were very prominent in the Civil Rights Movement during the 1960’s.
Reading about the Ustashas I have top of mind what so many young Serbian men did in response to their being targeted (singled out for mass removal, internment and slaughter, or forced conversion): in large numbers they joined the Communist-led Partisans and helped destroy the state and party which had carried out genocide against Serbs in Croatia. I know, Scott wanted to bait, demean and attack Jews, but I've been thinking about Serbian responses to genocide.
It is a sad truth that oppression drives marginalized populations beyond the point of folks like us would consider, in our comfortable circumstances, to be logical efforts of resistance. When the specter of imprisonment and death looms over your community it is logical in that moment to take advantage of whatever opportunities are available. It is for this reason that I don't fault Bulgarian Jews who partook in the largely communist underground movement in that county - it was the only option available.

We saw this play out in recent years where Assyrian Christians in Syria joined the Kurdish YPG in huge numbers, despite the fact that the YPG's libertarian-socialist ideology does not mesh naturally with their religious orthodoxy. They did so because the YPG had proven more effective at combating the Islamic State than any other actor, and they wanted to get their licks in. Good on them.

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Scott Mayers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:49 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:35 am
Scott Mayers wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:29 am
Thank you guys. I'll leave you to sing accolades to each other about how well you contributed to making this forum worthy of its goals.
Losing at checkers, kicks over game board and stomps away indignant...... :roll:
How am I the one losing here? You can't even lose a game you're denied to participate in.

I am pissed because I walk in, notice what appears to be one thing but turns out to be another, dare to point it out, and then get treated as though I'm some cop or rat who just busted in on something illegal. You treat me as though I'm the odd one for coming through a door with a large outdoor sign that says, "Come on in, everyone* welcome" only for you to turn me away, making me seem as though I'm the idiot for not noticing that "everyone" has a very tiny asterisk that clearly defines "everyone" as specifically those with a private membership card. [No, that isn't a dirty spot on your screen above. Scroll and you'll see that it follows you wherever you go!]

I'm tired of this supposed kind of 'skepticism' by members who are hypocritically non-skeptical of their own counter-intellectual behavior and who choose to read insult into my words when they openly refuse to even completely read what I wrote, to clarify that what you DID read is non-sense to you, and to not give me the charity nor respect to be someone at least sufficiently qualified to compete.


I sincerely challenge others in what I assumed was my own crowd, only to discover you are behaving as either incompetent or politically-biased cliques deluded into thinking yourselves sufficiently wise and above all others. You're allowed to be this way, if you want. But I permit myself to point out your 'Empirical" attire is actually "Imperial" and as equally invisible as it is devoid of real fabric.

You guys are NOT skeptical if you cannot invest into the appropriate depths needed to understand the problems raised. You can't expect to disprove some hate-conspiracy exists when you conspire, threaten, exclude and deny other's the same right to speak who aren't suitably 'fit' to your belief of superiority you demand cannot be questioned by default.

I know that if this site had a 'reputation' count as some sites do, that I'd be down into the negative integers by anonymous popularity votes, set up with a bright and large red asterisk beside my name that no one could miss notice of, with the added note: ' *BANNED, to strengthen the strain and weed out the weak!"

So don't think that I'd be foolish enough to fall for your own attempt at stripping me bare and sending me off to shower because you tell me I just need to be clean in order to attend your party.

[* by "everyone", we mean, those with a private membership card.]
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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Scott Mayers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:11 am

To the OP:

I was sincere in my concern to help you. I hope that you take some time to read what I have written on this here and elsewhere. You are not alone; but don't be fooled by those pretending to be your friends when they placate you without challenge.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:49 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:49 am

How am I the one losing here? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I am pissed because...........
So close, so far away.
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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Balsamo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:02 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:27 pm
As an Israeli Jew, I encounter three types of hostillities towards me and my people:
A) Anti-Israeli setiments
B) Antisemetic BS
C) Holocaust Denial

Now, the reason for the categorical seperation I'm making between A and B is pretty obvious, but why am I seperating between B and C? Well, because from my expirence, I've come the conclusion that while there's obviously a huge collaration between HD and Jew-hating, there not 100% related. What I mean is:
1 - You can be a HDer without being antisemetic
(I mostly encountered them on the Youtube comment section. Iin some cases, after a lengthy discussion I was able to see that there are indeed some peopele who don't really hate Jews, but are just genuenly curious and are just being mislead and misinformed. I also remember at least one of those on the HC comment section, and - without mentioning any names - I would also argue that we have/had on them here on the SSF)

2 - You can be a classic "Jooz-are-evil-and-are-behind-everything-that's-wrong-and-bad" without denying the Holocaust

This is one I'm basing on the famous case of Eric Hunt's "coming out", his 9,000-19,000 (how much was it exactly?) words article where he admits that the Holocaust happened, but it does not stop him from still saying some other antisemetic cancards. I mean, if you tell people about Hunt's, a prominent HD video maker, sudden rejection of revisionism, they'll just tell you that he has become a "Shill" for the Jews and was paid for abandoning his belifs, but that off course begs the question of why don't the evil Jews go all the way and just shut him up completley*?

The purpose of this thread is -
[1]: It's been a long time since I've read Hunt's article, and even though I do remember his still-antisemetic rants in it, I can't find them individually. Since I don't have the time, curently, do read the entire thing again, I'd be happy if someone could point towards one those exact quotes (Aaron, for some reason I belive this is your field of experties).
and more importantly -
[2] If you have examples of other cases of clear anti-semites who at the very least admit the Holocaust is a real thing that happened - again, I'd be happy to see them.

_______________________________
* I guess Hargis and his gang would give an answer that goes something like "well, they didn't go all the way so it wouldn't look so obvious". Yeah, such sneaky little Jews are we...
Good questions.
Just asking: In your perspective, is it possible to have anti-Israeli sentiments (which can be temporary, i mean related to specific policies and political actions) without being AS as well?

Concerning the link between HD and AS, it is a tricky topic which has already been discussed here, IIRC. As far as i am concerned, i tend to agree with your conclusion. HD or HR - as there are some degrees within the denial of the holocaust - do not imply systematically AS. That would be someone who would doubt the veracity of all or some facts, without implying that the Holocaust has been invented by some "evil Jews", who would consider the genocide as a hoax without accusing the Jews for being behind it, by agreeing that the Jews suffered enough to be dragged into believing that there was a Genocide going on.

The issue reminded me the bad reactions i had after having read Lipstadt's Denying the Holocaust...because it was obvious to me she kind of lacked knowledge on the fundamentals of Continental European HD.
But then, those are most of the time politically motivated by the will to rehabilitate former "far right "political movement, which most of the time were back them AS themselves. But is it enough to qualify someone like Marine Le Pen as AS only because of the old hostility between XIX and XXth century Nationalist movements and the Jews?

Although the answer seems quite obvious, i remember this famous interview of Lucient Rebatet and french Journalist (who was Jew) when Rebatet expressed his admiration for the state of Israel, back in the early 60's, which goes back to you point A. By the way, to answer your question, Lucien Rebatet was one of the most Anti Jewish Nazi french collaborator i am aware of. He was one of those who never denied the Holocaust, who was caught lying when pretending having ignored what was going on, while kind of justifying the genocide with the historical context...During this interview, he still believed that the second world war had been the result of a Jewish conspiracy.

So here is my imput for you : A former Nazi, who collaborated by writing the AS bestseller "Les Decombres" and collaborating to the infamous paper "Je suis partout", who was sentenced to death but pardoned by the general amnesty in 1954, ending up being a fervent supporter of the newly created state of Israel and who in fine considered that the creation of the Jewish State was The answer to the "Jewish problem" France faced in the 1930's.

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:14 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:02 pm
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:27 pm
As an Israeli Jew, I encounter three types of hostillities towards me and my people:
A) Anti-Israeli setiments
B) Antisemetic BS
C) Holocaust Denial

Now, the reason for the categorical seperation I'm making between A and B is pretty obvious, but why am I seperating between B and C? Well, because from my expirence, I've come the conclusion that while there's obviously a huge collaration between HD and Jew-hating, there not 100% related. What I mean is:
1 - You can be a HDer without being antisemetic
(I mostly encountered them on the Youtube comment section. Iin some cases, after a lengthy discussion I was able to see that there are indeed some peopele who don't really hate Jews, but are just genuenly curious and are just being mislead and misinformed. I also remember at least one of those on the HC comment section, and - without mentioning any names - I would also argue that we have/had on them here on the SSF)

2 - You can be a classic "Jooz-are-evil-and-are-behind-everything-that's-wrong-and-bad" without denying the Holocaust

This is one I'm basing on the famous case of Eric Hunt's "coming out", his 9,000-19,000 (how much was it exactly?) words article where he admits that the Holocaust happened, but it does not stop him from still saying some other antisemetic cancards. I mean, if you tell people about Hunt's, a prominent HD video maker, sudden rejection of revisionism, they'll just tell you that he has become a "Shill" for the Jews and was paid for abandoning his belifs, but that off course begs the question of why don't the evil Jews go all the way and just shut him up completley*?

The purpose of this thread is -
[1]: It's been a long time since I've read Hunt's article, and even though I do remember his still-antisemetic rants in it, I can't find them individually. Since I don't have the time, curently, do read the entire thing again, I'd be happy if someone could point towards one those exact quotes (Aaron, for some reason I belive this is your field of experties).
and more importantly -
[2] If you have examples of other cases of clear anti-semites who at the very least admit the Holocaust is a real thing that happened - again, I'd be happy to see them.

_______________________________
* I guess Hargis and his gang would give an answer that goes something like "well, they didn't go all the way so it wouldn't look so obvious". Yeah, such sneaky little Jews are we...
Good questions.
Just asking: In your perspective, is it possible to have anti-Israeli sentiments (which can be temporary, i mean related to specific policies and political actions) without being AS as well?
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: When you don't deny the Holocaust, but still hate the Jews.

Post by Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:17 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:02 pm
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:27 pm
As an Israeli Jew, I encounter three types of hostillities towards me and my people:
A) Anti-Israeli setiments
B) Antisemetic BS
C) Holocaust Denial

Now, the reason for the categorical seperation I'm making between A and B is pretty obvious, but why am I seperating between B and C? Well, because from my expirence, I've come the conclusion that while there's obviously a huge collaration between HD and Jew-hating, there not 100% related. What I mean is:
1 - You can be a HDer without being antisemetic
(I mostly encountered them on the Youtube comment section. Iin some cases, after a lengthy discussion I was able to see that there are indeed some peopele who don't really hate Jews, but are just genuenly curious and are just being mislead and misinformed. I also remember at least one of those on the HC comment section, and - without mentioning any names - I would also argue that we have/had on them here on the SSF)

2 - You can be a classic "Jooz-are-evil-and-are-behind-everything-that's-wrong-and-bad" without denying the Holocaust

This is one I'm basing on the famous case of Eric Hunt's "coming out", his 9,000-19,000 (how much was it exactly?) words article where he admits that the Holocaust happened, but it does not stop him from still saying some other antisemetic cancards. I mean, if you tell people about Hunt's, a prominent HD video maker, sudden rejection of revisionism, they'll just tell you that he has become a "Shill" for the Jews and was paid for abandoning his belifs, but that off course begs the question of why don't the evil Jews go all the way and just shut him up completley*?

The purpose of this thread is -
[1]: It's been a long time since I've read Hunt's article, and even though I do remember his still-antisemetic rants in it, I can't find them individually. Since I don't have the time, curently, do read the entire thing again, I'd be happy if someone could point towards one those exact quotes (Aaron, for some reason I belive this is your field of experties).
and more importantly -
[2] If you have examples of other cases of clear anti-semites who at the very least admit the Holocaust is a real thing that happened - again, I'd be happy to see them.

_______________________________
* I guess Hargis and his gang would give an answer that goes something like "well, they didn't go all the way so it wouldn't look so obvious". Yeah, such sneaky little Jews are we...
Good questions.
Just asking: In your perspective, is it possible to have anti-Israeli sentiments (which can be temporary, i mean related to specific policies and political actions) without being AS as well?
Off course It is possible. I'm not one of those "criticism of Israel = Anti-Semetism not matter what" people. Dangit, I AM critical of Israel sometimes myself.
Furthermore, in the last three years I also learned that infact it is also possible to be Pro-Israeli while being an antisemite.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.