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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:26 pm

Anecdotes: all easily acceptable on their face for what they offer: ONE example. Really dependents on what the argument is. Establishing a general rule or demonstrating a Black Swan. Some people will argue about them.

Some people.................
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:46 pm
landrew wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:20 pm
I saw it. I said it.
Deal with it.
Name the documentaries then... :shock:
He seems to be struggling with this simple request - and projecting onto others that we would struggle with similar requests.

The guy is clearly as out of his depth in this material as bobo. What's odd is that he feels the need to participate in such an insistent manner. The song-and-dance routine gives him away.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:02 pm
"The murderers where primarily in the military" ////..........just my sense from general education, and that is mostly Hollywood Movies? You know: "camps" run by the Army/SS, guarded by the Army/SS. I have no idea of actual numbers and what not.
All sorts of different people were involved with the killings, not just those involved in the military. Involvement was more than just simply pulling a trigger and shooting someone or gassing someone. What part of that don’t you understand?
"........and given lots of schnapps.........." ////Half a joke, half a projection of my own values/attitudes that if somehow I got trapped into doing such a job "I" would have to be drunk most of the time if even that would help. Pure Projection...........and in fact I did read ONE article on how camp guards dealt with their duties. Not much to go on.......just human nature.

.......Some enjoyed it, only some, as some always do." //// More of my own projection, sarcasm, irony, commentary. My own use of "some" being commentary and not a direct contradiction....not as retarded.
??????????????
But you say "Wrong. All sorts of people were involved in the killings." /// For example? I hope you aren't including the kapos? They were most directly "involved." The suppliers of gas to the camps? Where they "involved" in the sense you mean? Please state a few of the "categories" of people you include as "involved." Their numbers/%'s????? Or is it just blather?
A person involved did not have to pull a trigger. There were people who passed laws, but who never actually killed anyone. Hitler himself neither witnessed any massacres nor visited a concentration camp, but he was ultimately responsible.
"Some people..........blah, blah, blah." ////// A completely retarded comment. "some people" do anything you want to say. See? I just did it myself. Some people .......................complained about the barbarism of the SS BECAUSE it made running the camps and killing the Jews more difficult/less "efficient". Those some people?????
How is the phrase “some people” a retarded comment? It’s perfectly valid to state that “some people” were opposed to the killings of the Jews and others. It was only a tiny minority of people who advocated exterminating the Jews.
Can you categorize this cooperation? And is this cooperation the same as "involved"? What comes to my mind is that "ordinary Germans" tried to feed their families and keep them safe as much as they could. "Some Germans" would turn in folks they thought were Jews: what %? And would this % be "involved" in the killing of Jews? I accept ordinary Germans living close to the camps probably knew what was going one and did not revolt to save their fellow mankind. Is that being involved in the killing?

Ha, ha...............some people.............
Why don’t you read books?

You can start by reading Robert Gellately’s book The Gestapo and German Society: Enforcing Racial Policy 1933-1945.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:44 pm

My eyes!
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:47 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 pm
Let me get this straight? Soldiers are not automatically responsible for atrocities that happened but ordinary German Citizens as a group are? Can you puzzle me that?
You’re not getting it straight, that is the problem.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:01 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:43 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:02 pm
"The murderers where primarily in the military" ////..........just my sense from general education, and that is mostly Hollywood Movies? You know: "camps" run by the Army/SS, guarded by the Army/SS. I have no idea of actual numbers and what not.
All sorts of different people were involved with the killings, not just those involved in the military. Involvement was more than just simply pulling a trigger and shooting someone or gassing someone. What part of that don’t you understand?
You made that bald unsupported statement before. Mere repetition makes it weaker not stronger. I ask you SECOND TIME: to describe who these other people were, what they did that constituted "involvement." I understand completely you are not answering the relevant question.

..............some people................

ooops.......For Stat Mech: ...............some people.................

Happy to address other issues, but lets establish the difference between being responsive and on point vs log rolling BS.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:04 pm

Anyone who pretends not to understand the difference between "some guy told me" and the fruits archival and other research is basically asking not to be taken seriously.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:10 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:04 pm
Anyone who pretends not to understand the difference between "some guy told me" and the fruits archival and other research is basically asking not to be taken seriously.
.....as well as those who don't answer direct questions or get confused that repeating an unsupported generalist argument somehow gives it more import. Enough to make anyone.............................sigh. Which is more meaningless posting.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:11 pm

Its that central concept of "some" again. Always the basis for a retarded comment.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:21 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:01 pm
You made that bald unsupported statement before. Mere repetition makes it weaker not stronger. I ask you SECOND TIME: to describe who these other people were, what they did that constituted "involvement." I understand completely you are not answering the relevant question.

..............some people................

ooops.......For Stat Mech: ...............some people.................

Happy to address other issues, but lets establish the difference between being responsive and on point vs log rolling BS.
All different walks of life in Germany between 1933-1945. It’s staggering that you’re even disputing the fact that many people were involved with the Holocaust.

What books have you read about the Holocaust?

It’s a bit rich coming from you to claim someone is trolling when you have been put on ignore by users because of your posts. It’s obvious that you’re the one who is trolling because of the way you are trying to get a reaction by highlighting “some people”.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:22 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:11 pm
Its that central concept of "some" again. Always the basis for a retarded comment.
It’s retarded for someone to not understand the phrase “some people”.
“When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.” - Robert Pirsig

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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:26 pm

All I've asked for is a "description" of what you mean by "involvement."

I have never claimed anyone is trolling. Its a weak BS argument, ha, ha.......even moreso to claim someone else is doing it when they are not. ......."WoW" thats the level of your analysis?

Yes..............the "some people" is just that weak. Watch for it. On par with calling anything you disagree with a trolling event.

Now: care to answer the reasonable question? aka: what are you talking about. I gave examples of people who were "involved" and its not even my position. ie: I don't think the guy that delivered gas to the camps or the civilians living near the camp were "involved" in the Killing of Jews as that claim is made. Do you?
Last edited by bobbo_the_Pragmatist on Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:22 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:11 pm
Its that central concept of "some" again. Always the basis for a retarded comment.
It’s retarded for someone to not understand the phrase “some people”.
Ha, ha........I make the comment because I do understand what it means. Superior analysis does not use the concept because "some" people say/believe anything you want to name. How is including that concept helpful at all?

hmmmmm.....I can see you don't get the point. Oh well, you've been told. Recognize its import at your leisure. Some people........will never get it. Some people will. some people will go fishing. some people don't care enough to finis..........
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:36 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 pm
Ha, ha........I make the comment because I do understand what it means. Superior analysis does not use the concept because "some" people say/believe anything you want to name. How is including that concept helpful at all?

hmmmmm.....I can see you don't get the point. Oh well, you've been told. Recognize its import at your leisure. Some people........will never get it. Some people will. some people will go fishing. some people don't care enough to finis..........
Take your trolling elsewhere.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:38 pm



A good lecture by Richard J. Evans about how a German national identity changed over the years.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:47 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:36 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:28 pm
Ha, ha........I make the comment because I do understand what it means. Superior analysis does not use the concept because "some" people say/believe anything you want to name. How is including that concept helpful at all?

hmmmmm.....I can see you don't get the point. Oh well, you've been told. Recognize its import at your leisure. Some people........will never get it. Some people will. some people will go fishing. some people don't care enough to finis..........
Take your trolling elsewhere.
Again: your repeating a baseless claim makes it weaker, not stronger. why do you do that?

Please copy and paste where I have trolled..............as while I have NEVER called anyone a troll or that anyone is trolling, I have if you define the term broadly enough engaged in word play that could be taken as such. You might be referring to my COUNSEL that arguing what some people say is a weak to completely useless approach? You can disagree, but I don't think that is trolling at all but rather an attempt to get you to realize what is objectively true. You haven't figured it out yet, so I merely emphasized the issue for your ultimate improvement. Eschew the "some"....anything really.

childish to tell people to go elsewhere. Kinda a Nazi move.

Can't even describe what you mean by involvement? Can't even agree or disagree witht he two examples i gave to help you along?????

Weak. Ha, ha.........telling bobbo to go away...........can't you look at the evidence before you????? I'm an "involved" kind of guy.

..................some people...........can't take a free clue.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:50 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:47 pm
Again: your repeating a baseless claim makes it weaker, not stronger. why do you do that?

Please copy and paste where I have trolled..............as while I have NEVER called anyone a troll or that anyone is trolling, I have if you define the term broadly enough engaged in word play that could be taken as such. You might be referring to my COUNSEL that arguing what some people say is a weak to completely useless approach? You can disagree, but I don't think that is trolling at all but rather an attempt to get you to realize what is objectively true. You haven't figured it out yet, so I merely emphasized the issue for your ultimate improvement. Eschew the "some"....anything really.

childish to tell people to go elsewhere. Kinda a Nazi move.

Can't even describe what you mean by involvement? Can't even agree or disagree witht he two examples i gave to help you along?????

Weak. Ha, ha.........telling bobbo to go away...........can't you look at the evidence before you????? I'm an "involved" kind of guy.

..................some people...........can't take a free clue.
Boring.

Piss off.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:12 am

ooooh.....thats gonna leave a scar.

How old are you Goody? ................Just curious. Its been quite some time since the immaturity of a person comes through as clearly as it does with you. Interesting to note it. Same kind of nonsense that landrew posts yet he comes thru as an old fogey. What am I noticing? Curious minds want to know. Curious minds: ask questions.

Note: I'm not even "arguing" with you..........just asking for clarity. Silly to get so bent.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:45 am

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:10 pm
Those who complained were punished or judged less fit in some way, and more often, soldiers merely rationalized in their own minds that it was "OK" and part of the master race's natural right to rule over the "untermensch."
And? The point is that even German generals e.g. Blaskowitz, complained about the atrocities against the Jews, Poles, and others. Of course the Nazis were going to punish people who spoke out against it, all dictatorships are the same in that sense. Jeez, after only two years in power the Nazis had passed two laws which criminalised speaking out against Hitler, the Nazi Party and the State.

Some soldiers did, some soldiers did not. There are countless cases recorded of friendly (sometimes sexual) relations with those regarded as "untermenschen".
A non-trivial concern here is that he's lazily echoing one of the defenses used by participants in the genocide, one that has been repeatedly shown by scholars to have been fallacious, as well as reviving an older, simplistic model of the Third Reich..
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:10 am

Everything humans do is driven by a multitude of motivations, fears, concerns, doubts. Two people: twice as many. Just size it up. No need to engage in false dilemmas.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:19 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:12 am
ooooh.....thats gonna leave a scar.

How old are you Goody? ................Just curious. Its been quite some time since the immaturity of a person comes through as clearly as it does with you. Interesting to note it. Same kind of nonsense that landrew posts yet he comes thru as an old fogey. What am I noticing? Curious minds want to know. Curious minds: ask questions.

Note: I'm not even "arguing" with you..........just asking for clarity. Silly to get so bent.
I’m old enough to recognise your type - the type of person who likes to play little games instead discussing the subject. It’s much more immature to avoid discussing the subject and just post absolute rubbish.

I doubt that anyone in this forum is interested in reading your off-topic nonsense.

I’ve already recommended you one book to read about the subject, why don’t you stop being so lazy and read a few books about the subject? Otherwise it’s just going to be a waste of time. If you are curious about the subject then educate yourself.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:10 am
Everything humans do is driven by a multitude of motivations, fears, concerns, doubts. Two people: twice as many. Just size it up. No need to engage in false dilemmas.
You just don’t know when to stop, do you?

Quit playing games.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:11 pm

Three of the studies I cited on this question of superior orders and punishment for those who kept their distance from or opted out of the mass executions include Alex Kay as an author. Kay's conclusions rely on the archival research and the court records, but also on his knowledge of the secondary literature on the topic.

In his most recent book, The Making of an SS Killer, Kay summarized the scholarly consensus in his discussion of the defense offered by one member of EK9 who pleaded that he helped perpetrate mass killings only, in his words, "because he would have had to fear injury or death in the vent of a refusal to obey orders." In line with other research, Kay comments (p 101):
To this day, however, after decades of legal proceedings, not a single case has been documented for the National Socialist period in which a person who refused to partake in a killing or an execution was actually punished by death or even, for example, transferred to a penal battalion.
(Other works I cited include special attention to cases of refusals and non-cooperation, including by senior officers as well as ordinary policemen and members of the "security" units.)

Browning's work has underscored how peer pressure and consensus helped turn ordinary citizens into killers in the East; Ingrao, Lozowick, and others have shown the role that ideology and world-view played among the planners and operatives of the Nazis' criminal policies. From both points of view, applying to Nazi Germany a model of dictatorship that overemphasizes top-down controls and widespread punishment, sheer coercion, and force is to perpetuate both a myth about the nature of the Third Reich and a series of defensive rationales used by war criminals. Goody67 has helpfully mentioned the work of Gellately, which provides strong context for a more nuanced understanding of the Third Reich than those prevalent fifty years and in popular culture today.

Even some of the Nazis themselves were aware of this. For example, Glaise von Hortensau (the German Plenipotentiary General for the NDH) reported to Berlin in 1941, lamenting the narrow base of popular support for the Ustasha regime in Croatia and the Ustashas' reliance on compulsion and force to maintain their power, that
The attempt to master the difficulties in the Croatian state with dictatorial means must end in failure, because even a dictatorship cannot act out of thin air, that is, without ground under its feet.
(Tomasevich, War and Revolution in Yugoslavia, p 352)
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:24 pm

To this day, however, after decades of legal proceedings, not a single case has been documented for the National Socialist period in which a person who refused to partake in a killing or an execution was actually punished by death or even, for example, transferred to a penal battalion.
Any reports on what "did" happen?.......or how many did refuse?
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:00 pm

For those who read, I should add that Kay & Stahel contribute to their collection of essays Mass Violence in Nazi-Occupied Europe a chapter (chapter 8, "Reconceiving Criminality in the German Army on the Eastern Front, 1941-1942") which develops a wide vision for occupier violence and criminality - far beyond genocidal murder - and looks at indirect and direct ways in which Wehrmacht soldiers participated.

Kay and Stahel discuss such issues as how routine looting of peasant homes in occupied territory by soldiers to supplement their rations, not intended as a means of mass murder, often led to malnutrition, disease, and starvation among the peasants.

Their discussion takes us far from childish and empty sloganeering about the Nazi dictatorship and who was primarily involved in atrocities; Kay & Stahel conclude that "What a broader case will reveal . . . is that the war of annihilation in the East was not just Hitler’s war or that of the Wehrmacht High Command, but also of the ordinary German and Austrian soldiers,” with a large number of Wehrmacht soldiers viewing their war as part of the “struggle against world Jewry” and even soldiers who were critical of NS committing war crimes in the eastern campaigns.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:30 pm

Nobody said there would be reading when I joined this forum..... :D
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:05 pm

ROFL yeah watch a few war flicks and post your opinions, that's what it's all about!
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:10 pm

Or not even do that, just post pompous comments and babble about pros and cons.

:lol:
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:12 pm

LOL that'll do . . . or not :)
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:35 pm

I just finished a Marathon Watch of Hogans Heroes and very few soldiers refused any order that were given to them although Schultz sure seemed to have his own game afoot a la "King Rat" as did Klink with his off screen higher command. Excuse this reference to Pop Culture.....I know King Rat was about japanese prisoners but the reference is still relevant. What this program demonstrates is a very real overhanging sense of oppression and doom that mere "displeasing" a higher officer would get you sent to the Eastern Front........forget about actually refusing an order.

You know.....the series would not have lasted more than one season if it wasn't based on "something." I've heard some people say that.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:04 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:35 pm
I just finished a Marathon Watch of Hogans Heroes and very few soldiers refused any order that were given to them although Schultz sure seemed to have his own game afoot a la "King Rat" as did Klink with his off screen higher command. Excuse this reference to Pop Culture.....I know King Rat was about japanese prisoners but the reference is still relevant. What this program demonstrates is a very real overhanging sense of oppression and doom that mere "displeasing" a higher officer would get you sent to the Eastern Front........forget about actually refusing an order.

You know.....the series would not have lasted more than one season if it wasn't based on "something." I've heard some people say that.
A tip of advice: watch and read about the Third Reich instead of making analogies.

You have been given examples of what books to read about the subject. You may also be interested in reading David H. Kitterman's German Review "Those Who Said "No!": Germans Who Refused to Execute Civilians during World War II" which was published in 1988.

For those interested about the consequences of refusing orders during the Third Reich, Helmut Langerbein in his book Hitler's Death Squads: The Logic of Mass Murder wrote on p.72:
Yet, to the contrary, as demonstrated by the material the German prosecutors compiled at the Central Office of the State Justice Administrations for the Investigation of National Socialist Homicide Crimes, as well as the research of scholars like Helmut Krausnick, Christopher Browning, and Daniel Goldhagen, among others, refusal to follow an order to shoot Jews or Communists did not constitute an imminent danger for a single Einsatzgruppen member, Reserve Police Office, Wehrmacht soldier, or any other German who did not follow an order. Despite a popular myth, and the threats of these eight Einsatzgruppen officers, not one case is documented of someone being charged in court or summarily shot for refusing to execute Jews. In most circumstances, negative consequences seldom occurred. At the worst, such objectors were no longer promoted, were demoted in rank or position, or were transferred to the eastern front. Considering the brutal character of the war in the Soviet Union, however, especially after its first year, transfer to the front was definitely a form of punishment. SS officers who transferred usually were sent to a Waffen SS unit, where their chances to survive in battle were almost equal to those of other soldiers. But casualties within Waffen SS units were higher than in regular Wehrmacht units because Waffen SS men often did not have military training and experience equivalent to army soldiers.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:08 pm

Ummmmm.....your quoted text is EXACTLY what is documented in Hogans Heroes. Common experience: something happening will cause something else to happen. TV is like that: culture reflected in the Arts. Its why Hitler hated the arts and went with Opera and the Occult.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:49 pm

I’m not saying a fookin’ thing....
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: Documentaries

Post by Goody67 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:51 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:08 pm
Ummmmm.....your quoted text is EXACTLY what is documented in Hogans Heroes. Common experience: something happening will cause something else to happen. TV is like that: culture reflected in the Arts. Its why Hitler hated the arts and went with Opera and the Occult.
There is no need for you to make any analogies, you can easily watch documentaries about the Third Reich.

Hitler did not hate the Arts, the Nazis were extremely interested in using different forms of art for their own agenda and beliefs. Hitler viewed the arts and opera as forms of expressing German culture.

Hitler was not interested in the occult, he remarked during a speech that the Nazi movement was not interested related the occult or any form of mysticism. Nevertheless, Himmler was heavily into the occult.
Last edited by Goody67 on Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:52 pm

Well, maybe this:
History brought to you by Hogan’s Heroes!!!!!!

What does Bobbo know about this?????

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:56 pm

my eyes, my eyes!
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:58 pm

Hitler hated the arts is as {!#%@} clueless as history by common sense and Hogan’s Heroes, just saying ... but please don’t quote bobo
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Re: Documentaries

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:02 am

Third Reich, Hitler's Death Squads: The Logic of Mass Murder
Helmut Langerbein,
Texas A&M University Press; 1 edition (November 3, 2003)

compared to Hogans Heroes which aired in 1965. Its creator Albert S. Ruddy (born March 28, 1930) is a Canadian-born filmmaker. Born in Montreal, but raised in New York, Ruddy attended Brooklyn Tech before earning a scholarship to study chemical engineering at City College of New York. After graduating from the School of Architecture at the University of California, he went back east to work in the construction industry.

So, you see which came first serving as authority for what came afterwards. What else was the camp except chemical engineering, architecture and construction? My quick references don't reveal his exposure to the Nazi High Command, the Opera, or the Occult but post hoc ergo proctor hoc stands on its own until disproven by overwhelming evidence otherwise. I mean.....the series even won 2 Primetime Emmys for Quality's Sake.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:54 am

landrew wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:40 pm
You see how this works? You don't own the podium.
I see how this works. Some of you watch Hogan's Heroes, post off the cuff trash, and refuse to support your "opinions" or to reply to sources that rubbish them. Or simply disappear when the going gets tough for you.
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Re: Documentaries

Post by landrew » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:26 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:54 am
landrew wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:40 pm
You see how this works? You don't own the podium.
I see how this works. Some of you watch Hogan's Heroes, post off the cuff trash, and refuse to support your "opinions" or to reply to sources that rubbish them. Or simply disappear when the going gets tough for you.
There's nothing tough about being trolled with a ton of straw-manning just for offering an opinion. It's just sad. You'll have to get your recreational flaming jollies from someone else.
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