Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

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Goody67
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:34 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:55 am
I may push it back, I’ve got this as something I want:
Wendy Lower
Nazi Empire-Building and the Holocaust in Ukraine
New edition Edition
I enjoyed that book. Have you read Lower's book Hitler's Furies: German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields? I thoroughly enjoyed that book as well.

You may be interested in watching:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=28100&start=240#p697645

Wendy Lower and Christopher Browning are the main guest speakers.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:35 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
Why is Balmoral better suited? An opinion is just an opinion.
My guess: Jeffk is saying that since Balmoral has read a great deal of Irving's work, he is in a better position to express a view on that work than others, like Jeffk, who haven't. I take it that Jeffk (mis)understood that you were seeking his/others' views on Irving.
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
however, his argument was that there is no document evidence that Hitler knew of what was happening to the deported Jews.
I don't think that Irving is correct in this on the level of policy and general actions. Cf. Longerich, The Unwritten Order and his written expert opinion for the Irving-Lipstadt trial. Also see here. Irving's claims on this strike me, as they did Longerich, as tendentious.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:40 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:29 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:22 am
I am. But seriously, I can't get to what I very much want to read . . . I have 5-6 tall stacks of unread books. Irving ain't gonna push any titles out of contention. Plus, I seem to keep buying new titles.
The point I was trying to make is that I think it's wrong to just refuse categorically to read the works of someone because of preconceived opinions of that person.
I think most everyone posting here, except bobo who is studiously ignorant on these matters, agrees; the issue is prioritization, which involves judgments, which surely cannot be perfectly formed given the nature of the decisions involved, on value and importance of different ways to spend one's time.
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:29 pm
Some people regard Churchill as controversial (e.g. his statements about Indian people), does that mean we should not read any of his works?

Hitler was an absolute bastard, should people not read Mein Kampf and try to get inside the head of the nutjob?

I think sometimes it's important for one to just bite the bullet and read certain books that he or she does like.
In Jeffk's defense, he has read a lot of denial and "listened" to many deniers in many venues. I would guess most of us here have read Mein Kampf.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:45 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:35 pm
I don't think that Irving is correct in this on the level of policy and general actions. Cf. Longerich, The Unwritten Order and his written expert opinion for the Irving-Lipstadt trial. Also see here. it strikes me as tendentious on Irving's part to stick to such a claim.
I agree with you.

However, we must admit that a lot has changed since the 1970s and a lot of new material has been found since that time period. Nevertheless, I still think Irving was wrong to have that view in the 1970s.

The only that is true is that there no "official order" by Hitler ordering the extermination of the Jews. Longerich pointed out why:
Hitler avoided giving a clear written order to exterminate Jewish civilians. He avoided speaking openly about killing in his entourage.
Plus, even if Hitler had given an order, it would have been one of the first documents to have been destroyed. The Nazis tried their best to hide any evidence of genocide and failed.

https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/a ... rs-orders/

Another article worth reading:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... -work.html

Hitler never witnessed any massacres, never visited a concentration camp and never even saw any of the starving POW.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Goody67 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:40 pm
I think most everyone posting here, except bobo who is studiously ignorant on these matters, agrees; the issue is prioritization, which involves judgments, which surely cannot be perfectly formed given the nature of the decisions involved, on value and importance of different ways to spend one's time.
I understand what you mean. But, I was just stating that in my opinion it is wrong to refuse to read the works of someone because of other people's opinions or any preconceived thoughts.
In Jeffk's defense, he has read a lot of denial and "listened" to many deniers in many venues. I would guess most of us here have read Mein Kampf.
I can listen to deniers such as Irving, Zündel and a few others while disagreeing. However, I can't stand listening to Berg, Rizoli and other twats.



First and only comment so far:
Could this get any more tiring? Berg is just a cantankerous loudmouth, worse than any Christian fundamentalist.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

That was my point before - Irving has admitted that he made mistakes in the past, but people like Berg are so brainwashed that they couldn't give a monkey's about the truth.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:57 pm

LOL Rizoli is very funny IMO
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Balmoral95 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:45 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:35 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
Why is Balmoral better suited? An opinion is just an opinion.
My guess: Jeffk is saying that since Balmoral has read a great deal of Irving's work, he is in a better position to express a view on that work than others, like Jeffk, who haven't. I take it that Jeffk (mis)understood that you were seeking his/others' views on Irving.
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:23 pm
however, his argument was that there is no document evidence that Hitler knew of what was happening to the deported Jews.
I don't think that Irving is correct in this on the level of policy and general actions. Cf. Longerich, The Unwritten Order and his written expert opinion for the Irving-Lipstadt trial. Also see here. Irving's claims on this strike me, as they did Longerich, as tendentious.
Kind of difficult for Irving walking this back as it's foundational to so much of his work...

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Balmoral95 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:19 am

NYT review of "Hitler's War", April 1977 at:

https://www.nytimes.com/1977/04/03/arch ... erman.html

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:29 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:40 pm

I think most everyone posting here, except bobo who is studiously ignorant on these matters,....."
Rats. Well, I can only agree with simple observable actually STATED truths. but I really like the term "studiously" added to ignorance. Love the word play.

.....................and yet, its just as observable how often what I post is not controverted except by being called names and told to leave. Its all issue by issue, but the trend/tendency is there.

For what its worth, you boys seems to read an INCREDIBLE amount of literature/books. You know what incredible means?.........right? I can see getting thru the piles of books you do if speed reading and that calls into question other issues. but still........remarkable. As I have. Incredible ranges from impossible to surprising. I mean surprising or more so: a task that I could not do myself, but I am a very slow reader.

Kudos all around....................
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:08 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:51 pm


I can listen to deniers such as Irving, Zündel and a few others while disagreeing. However, I can't stand listening to Berg, Rizoli and other twats.


Hey!!!! It’s my old buddy Jim, one-half of the comedy troop the Flying Rizoli Brothers!!!!!!

Joe is the other half.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Goody67 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:00 am



The video has only been recently uploaded, Irving mentioned the diaries in his speech.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:10 am

This reminds me of a low point in my life: I registered years ago at Codoh under the username "Gerbils" only to have my application declined.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:27 am

LOL, I imagine you were devastated.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:29 am

I am the shell of the person I once was, utterly unable to get over the horror of this rejection.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:32 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:08 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:51 pm


I can listen to deniers such as Irving, Zündel and a few others while disagreeing. However, I can't stand listening to Berg, Rizoli and other twats.


Hey!!!! It’s my old buddy Jim, one-half of the comedy troop the Flying Rizoli Brothers!!!!!!

Joe is the other half.
I glanced through that video even though Berg makes me ill. Oddly enough he does admit you can kill with diesel.
Last edited by Jeffk 1970 on Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:33 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:29 am
I am the shell of the person I once was, utterly unable to get over the horror of this rejection.
Sadly I lost my login at RODOH. I’m sure they miss Metal Murphy.

:D

Frankly I got bored.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:47 am

I keep forgetting to check and see if Werd has calmed himself over Mattogno's EG flop. Someone told me that the site had been down several days. I never noticed.
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:24 am

It’s been a few days since I checked in on the zoo.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Balmoral95 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:44 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:47 am
I keep forgetting to check and see if Werd has calmed himself over Mattogno's EG flop. Someone told me that the site had been down several days. I never noticed.
I have a reading hangover after finishing it... Haven't looked at a book in two weeks... :(

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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:10 am

LOL (my reading list is really suffering as I'm working on a book, which takes a lot of time and effort, and I am reading a long unpublished piece on the side . . . )
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Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:27 am

My reading pace is rolling along nicely. Finished Arad today and making good progress on Lower’s book.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843