Trump will win!

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 pm

. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:38 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:34 pm
The next physical will measure Trump at 6 foot 8 inches tall: not obese at all.
Of course, using the new Trump scale of length, whereby his inaugural crowd stretched out way beyond what Obama's did.
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:40 pm

Sigh . . .
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:42 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:40 pm
Sigh . . .
What about?
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 pm

Trump using a tweet (a) to announce policy (b) affecting European allies in a very serious way and (c) threaten those allies that he will unleash potential terrorists on the continent if they don't support his unilaterally made policy in the way he demands:



Relations between western Europe (not including the eastern and southern European countries governed by right-wing populists and authoritarians) seem to be searching for the bottom.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:27 pm

Oomph.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:33 am

What's missing in America these days? Rides of the KKK, for sure:

Image
Asked to elaborate what he meant by "cleaning up D.C.," Sutton suggested lynching.

"We'll get the hemp ropes out, loop them over a tall limb and hang all of them," Sutton said.

When asked if he felt it was appropriate for the publisher of a newspaper to call for the lynching of Americans, Sutton doubled down on his position.

"... It's not calling for the lynchings of Americans. These are socialist-communists we're talking about. Do you know what socialism and communism is?" Sutton said.
https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/st ... 910436002/
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:12 am

OMG!!!!!!
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:03 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 pm
Trump using a tweet (a) to announce policy (b) affecting European allies in a very serious way and (c) threaten those allies that he will unleash potential terrorists on the continent if they don't support his unilaterally made policy in the way he demands:



Relations between western Europe (not including the eastern and southern European countries governed by right-wing populists and authoritarians) seem to be searching for the bottom.

so now it's catch&release for terrorists?
I thought only Democrats did that...

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:10 am

How do you get catch and release out of "take back and prosecute"? I assume he's seen the newscast in UK about that British Female who voluntarily went to ISIS to become a Terrorist Breeder but now wants to return to UK to raise her brood? I hope I'm wrong, but my impression from the news is that there is precious little formal review of folks who are returning to Europe after spending time in the Middle East?

Ha, ha.........My wonder: the legality of saying: "Sure ..... come on back." And then jailing them for life.......or whatever. Probably cheaper to just say you are a criminal treasonous combatant who will be jailed forever and encourage her to suffer in Syria?
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:11 am

.........gasp!!!!!................
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:25 pm

Top story in Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet this morning: "JUST NU: Sanders vill bli president ▸ Bernie Sanders ställer upp i presidentvalet"

No translation necessary . . .
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:49 pm

On cue, I got an alert on my phone:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:57 pm

I used to be on his mailing list but must have done something wrong so I didn't receive his email blast. What Bernie may be surprised to find is that he is no longer the sole opponent of a historically bad potential nominee but contending in a diverse field with a number of candidates running in his lane . . . the conditions for his 2016 "break out" are no longer present . . .
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:06 pm

. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 pm
Roger Stone death threat? https://boingboing.net/2019/02/18/are-t ... his-r.html
Clearly a hacked account. Court-filed apology or not... :roll:
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 pm
Roger Stone death threat? https://boingboing.net/2019/02/18/are-t ... his-r.html
Clearly a hacked account. Court-filed apology or not... :roll:
That Stone is not held in contempt of court (and human decency) and thrown in prison for the duration speaks volumes about the evisceration of the law and democratic political behavior in the US.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:56 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 pm
scrmbldggs wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 pm
Roger Stone death threat? https://boingboing.net/2019/02/18/are-t ... his-r.html
Clearly a hacked account. Court-filed apology or not... :roll:
That Stone is not held in contempt of court (and human decency) and thrown in prison for the duration speaks volumes about the evisceration of the law and democratic political behavior in the US.
Give it a day. Or two...
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:35 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:56 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 pm
scrmbldggs wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 pm
Roger Stone death threat? https://boingboing.net/2019/02/18/are-t ... his-r.html
Clearly a hacked account. Court-filed apology or not... :roll:
That Stone is not held in contempt of court (and human decency) and thrown in prison for the duration speaks volumes about the evisceration of the law and democratic political behavior in the US.
Give it a day. Or two...
It's the Charles Manson strategy: Disrupt the court, then claim on appeal you couldn't get a fair trial because somebody disrupted the court. (Immediately after Manson's violent outburst, his attorney moved to declare a mistrial because of it. The judge wasn't having it, and Manson went to prison.)
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:41 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 pm
Trump using a tweet (a) to announce policy (b) affecting European allies in a very serious way and (c) threaten those allies that he will unleash potential terrorists on the continent if they don't support his unilaterally made policy in the way he demands:


Ask the people at Guantanamo whether the US has to abide by international law or not.

As for the ISIS-bride who wants back into the UK, (1) she no longer has a "brood", only her latest child. The first two she had starved to death in the ISIS camp. (2) Under British law, they HAVE to take her back. She's still a citizen. No, I don't like it either. I discount anything she is saying now (no doubt on advice of attorney), as it contradicts what she was saying last week. She now says she'll "take responsibility" for what she did; but she failed to specify any consequences that behavior should have for her. I'm inclined to be hard-hearted about this: She made her bed; now she can lie in it (as she seems to be lying in front of the cameras).
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:46 pm

Sweden is going through the same tergiversations - and coming to the unpleasant recognition that ISIS volunteers didn't relinquish Swedish citizenship and that tying Swedes who joined ISIS to particular crimes and proving them is challenging. European countries are in a tough spot with this situation, in that most of them want to use legal processes and follow due process, and Trump's interventions aren't helping matters.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:52 pm

Bernie has forgiven me (yes, it is true, I've donated to other candidates . . . ) and his email blast hit my in-box half an hour ago. :)
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:45 pm

recent polling shows strong majorities (61-36) against Trump's Wall declaration . . .

- "But guess which group is overwhelmingly behind Trump on all of this? White evangelical Christians. They approve of the declaration by 67-26 . . ."

- "Trump’s surprising weakness in the 'blue wall' states he cracked in the industrial Midwest. As Amy Walter demonstrates, Trump is underwater in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, and one reason is that Trump’s nationalist trade agenda (which was supposed to explain his surprise win in those states) is not delivering."
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:52 pm

It's a question all Democratic candidates have to ask voters constantly: What has he actually done for you. Personally. (And maybe some of those who care to think will realize what he has done to them...)
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:32 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:56 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:49 pm
scrmbldggs wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:37 pm
Roger Stone death threat? https://boingboing.net/2019/02/18/are-t ... his-r.html
Clearly a hacked account. Court-filed apology or not... :roll:
That Stone is not held in contempt of court (and human decency) and thrown in prison for the duration speaks volumes about the evisceration of the law and democratic political behavior in the US.
Give it a day. Or two...
Indeed. Judge Berman Jackson has set a hearing date for Stone's defense to show why Stone's bail “shouldn’t not be modified or revoked.”
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:49 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:49 pm
On cue, I got an alert on my phone:
...



? :-P
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:13 pm

I don't see Trump's numbers dropping much behind 2016 values, should he run in 2020: there is such overwhelming evidence of him being a lazy, senile, evil grifter and traitor that no former supporter could admit to themselves that Clinton would have been the better choice: for preserving their self-identity, they'll HAVE to double down, even against a much more palatable Democrat challenger.
The only hope is mobilizing people who sat on the fence in 2016, and hopefully a bit less Gerrymandering and less Russian meddling.

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:53 pm

...and all those with a (new)found interest...




ETA And, hopefully, much less voter suppression...
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:56 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:41 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 pm
Trump using a tweet (a) to announce policy (b) affecting European allies in a very serious way and (c) threaten those allies that he will unleash potential terrorists on the continent if they don't support his unilaterally made policy in the way he demands:


Ask the people at Guantanamo whether the US has to abide by international law or not.

As for the ISIS-bride who wants back into the UK, (1) she no longer has a "brood", only her latest child. The first two she had starved to death in the ISIS camp. (2) Under British law, they HAVE to take her back. She's still a citizen. No, I don't like it either. I discount anything she is saying now (no doubt on advice of attorney), as it contradicts what she was saying last week. She now says she'll "take responsibility" for what she did; but she failed to specify any consequences that behavior should have for her. I'm inclined to be hard-hearted about this: She made her bed; now she can lie in it (as she seems to be lying in front of the cameras).
I see that differently. If the point is to deter people from joining IS, and take away their belief that the west is all out to get muslims, then we should take all of them back who are willing to come back. Show them that we aren't the bad guys in a counterpoint to IS propaganda. Of course, if crimes are proven committed, then due process should be applied. I appreciate that it's hard to prove crimes beyond people going to Syria, into the troubled regions, but that is indeed the point. Give them all the rights of due legal process. Treating these people differently, will only confirm beliefs already in place of muslims' victimisation and hand the IS a little PR win even in that.

Bring em home. Most have realized they made a mistake. Being magnanimous in victory has a good historic track record.

Peace
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:14 pm

BBC has reported that she will lose (has lost?) her UK citizenship, but can appeal. It seems to me that her 'crimes' committed between age 15 and 19 need to be reviewed as a child - and be given corrective opportunities.

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:41 pm

Only Supreme Court justices (and other offspring of the rich and famous) are regarded children well into their thirties and forties.


However, Florida Sixth Grader not so much....
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Re: Trump will sin!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:18 pm

What'd happen to a former Acting Attorney General and a current administration official if he "under oath to the House Judiciary Committee...stated that 'at no time has the White House asked for nor have I provided any promises or commitments concerning the special counsel’s investigation or any other investigation,'", but actually lied about that? (Agent Orange, of course, denies the allegations. That he asked Whitacker to reroute SDNY's investigation(s?) to his ally Geoffrey Berman, the recused US attorney for the Southern District of New York...)
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Re: Trump will spin!

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:47 pm

btw, Dan Coats is toast. He insulted his buddy Kimmy at January's Congressional hearing. :(
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:49 pm

I think that, because Congress in the '70s, secure in its delusion about American exceptionalism and the robust, sound architecture of the system, delegated its emergency powers to the chief executive, I think it more likely than not that Trump will prevail in the court cases involving his national emergency declaration. The legislation is as much a problem as 1) Trump's autocratic impulses and 2) the delegation of tariff powers also to the executive.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:52 pm

I thought the ISIS babe had one live and another one on the way? I mean, I don't want to besmirch her character. The one newsclip on her I saw had her asked what she thought when she saw a bag filled with the heads of local citizens who would not swear fidelity to ISIS. "Nothing...it was OK" ...NOT her exact words, but her meaning.

She has not reformed her pro ISIS views in any way that I have heard. Raise her kiddies in like fashion? The thing about being in a war is: you kill the enemy and their supporters. Being magnanimous in victory is a tad naive.... especially in the worst of cases as we have here.

The Due Process I would give: a review of why/what they were doing in the war zone. If not convincing: they are guilty of being an enemy combatant and treated as such..........whatever that is these days. HATE the idea of warehousing them until they die, HATE the idea of letting them off scott free, some limited jail time, or sending them back to the Middle East. NO GOOD OPTIONS. Only thing I can think of would be the basis for a sci-fy movie...let them pick up trash?
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:49 pm
I think that, because Congress in the '70s, secure in its delusion about American exceptionalism and the robust, sound architecture of the system, delegated its emergency powers to the chief executive, I think it more likely than not that Trump will prevail in the court cases involving his national emergency declaration. The legislation is as much a problem as 1) Trump's autocratic impulses and 2) the delegation of tariff powers also to the executive.
..............sigh.............I'll take that bet and that Trump will lose his court case at each stage all the way up. Why you so negative AND on a case of FIRST IMPRESSION???????????? Frankly, sounds anti-american to me: not to believe in Congress and our Courts. (Sarc Off/bet remains.)

In fact, I'll give you double odds: hard to meet the language of the emergency act (whatever it is) when you say contemporaneously: "I didn't have to do this..........."

THAT: and the precedents are that Congress has not already ruled, made laws, allocated money on the very issue at hand.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:49 pm
I think that, because Congress in the '70s, secure in its delusion about American exceptionalism and the robust, sound architecture of the system, delegated its emergency powers to the chief executive, I think it more likely than not that Trump will prevail in the court cases involving his national emergency declaration. The legislation is as much a problem as 1) Trump's autocratic impulses and 2) the delegation of tariff powers also to the executive.
A different view: "Trump might have a solid case for emergency declaration, analysts say: Though Trump himself suggested there is no real emergency, courts are unlikely to second-guess a presidents’ broad leeway" - a potential problem for Trump is the precise authority he's invoked:
the courts could rule on a narrow question that would undercut Trump, Sunstein wrote, such as whether the border wall qualifies as a “military construction project”. If the answer is no, the legal reasoning advanced by the Trump administration could fold.

In its reasoning, the White House invoked a a US law stating that under a declared national emergency (or a declaration of war), the secretary of defense can undertake “military construction projects … not otherwise authorized by law.”

The White House also invoked a second law that authorized the secretary of defense to support the “construction of roads and fences and installation of lighting to block drug smuggling corridors across international boundaries of the United States”.

South Texas college of law professor Josh Blackman, a conservative analyst, wrote that Congress had clearly ceded to the president the power “to shift appropriations around to fund that construction” and that Trump’s invocation of the the drug-smuggling law “reflects, once again, an instance where he relies on express delegations of power to accomplish awful policies”.

In a point echoed by Sunstein, University of Texas law professor Steve Vladeck said the fate of Trump’s emergency declaration likely rests on a relatively narrow reading of law.

“The legal dispute won’t be over whether there really is an ‘emergency’,” Vladeck tweeted. “It will be over whether the statutory authorities an emergency declaration unlocks actually authorize wall construction.”
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:18 pm

Excellent response SM. ..............as to how propaganda in a failing presidency works. You do see that?

Bet still on.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:01 am

Rereading SM's excellent "best that can be done" response, just read it for "everything" it says: last line: "“The legal dispute won’t be over whether there really is an ‘emergency’,” Vladeck tweeted. “It will be over whether the statutory authorities an emergency declaration unlocks actually authorize wall construction.” //// and to that I also disagree. The import of this case that the Supremes are inherently interested in is: SEPARATION OF POWERS. Hmmmm....I'd say if said law were applied to negate the precedents/history/court cases/common sense/superseding constitutional values: Congress has already acted directly on the matter involved. The case is NOT ABOUT THE LAW, but about the CONSTITUTION.

Hmmmm.....just saying that, the alternative really is to leave it as just that: too often Supremes refuse to get involved in a dispute between Congress and Pres as there are other tools available to Congress.........like impeachment.

ewwwww, I'm not so rock solid on what the supremes will rule. .............Its the Politics, not the law that is in play. I never do politics well: stupidity of the people always confounds me.

But the law is ...."is"........so clear. Bet still on.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
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Jeff_36
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Jeff_36 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:35 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:41 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 pm
Trump using a tweet (a) to announce policy (b) affecting European allies in a very serious way and (c) threaten those allies that he will unleash potential terrorists on the continent if they don't support his unilaterally made policy in the way he demands:


Ask the people at Guantanamo whether the US has to abide by international law or not.

As for the ISIS-bride who wants back into the UK, (1) she no longer has a "brood", only her latest child. The first two she had starved to death in the ISIS camp. (2) Under British law, they HAVE to take her back. She's still a citizen. No, I don't like it either. I discount anything she is saying now (no doubt on advice of attorney), as it contradicts what she was saying last week. She now says she'll "take responsibility" for what she did; but she failed to specify any consequences that behavior should have for her. I'm inclined to be hard-hearted about this: She made her bed; now she can lie in it (as she seems to be lying in front of the cameras).
If she is to be repatriated, she must stand trial. Period. Canada is making the horrible mistake of giving it's ISIS fighters under-the-table amnesty (I always thought that Troodough's naive Orientalism makes him an unwitting fellow-traveler to Salafists) - Britain would be foolish to make such a mistake. If such an arrangement is unable to be obtained, then she must be left to her fate, be it at the hands of the SDF or other western proxies.