Sam Parnia new update

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Shen1986
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Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:04 pm

Hi


Here is a update of Sam Parnia:



It starts at 35 minutes.

Red Flags so far:

- John Templenton is founding it.

Skeptic points:

- He is not very specific that means he has no hits or anything big because he would mention it.
- He says that death is a process and it takes long for the cells to die. So you are NOT dead when you are resuscitated.

If someone else found something interesting let me know.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by landrew » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:33 pm

I'll pass.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Gord » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:24 am

Shen1986 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:04 pm
- He says that death is a process and it takes long for the cells to die. So you are NOT dead when you are resuscitated.
Well, that's both true and false since "death" has more than one definition. But if he's saying that to define it for the purposes of his own talk, then it's not a conclusion, it's a premise.
landrew wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:33 pm
I'll pass.
Ha! I bet you didn't even study! :P
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:48 pm

Sam Parnia is also here:

https://www.today.com/video/doctor-desc ... 1059139948

There are a few red flags:

- He says his works is evidence based but that is not the case because he is talking like a real believer now - the same things he pulled when he claimed that his AWARE I study is proof of a soul but it was NOT.

- Second if he has ground breaking data why was he is in a talk show??

- Again he gives nothing special - his only claims are that someone described a tie some doctor was wearing during the operation but its hard to tell if he is referring to his cases or something he read in the NDE literature.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Gord » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:41 am

Shen1986 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:48 pm
- Second if he has ground breaking data why was he is in a talk show??
Money. It's always the money.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:36 pm

Just a note: to be "effective" like such codes run in hospitals, the downward force of the compressions has to be much harder/severe than anything we see in the movies with the only compression taking place in the elbows of the resuscitators. REAL cpr breaks bones.......I've read. Its mostly the air that will save a person because external heart pumping just doesn't take place.

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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Kamil » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:30 pm

Didn't Sam Parnia recently say that the brain still stays active after clinical death? He also said that means a person who dies will know they are dead. He still does not admit that clinical death isn't death. If a person can come back, they were never dead to begin with. Also, if it's true that a person's brain continues to work for potentially hours after clinical death, that makes his case for NDEs weaker.

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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:16 am

Kamil AKA Matt MSV7 AKA Omniverse wrote:Didn't Sam Parnia recently say ..........
Post the exact quote and its citation. You lie all the time and no one here trusts you without full citations.

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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by mack_10 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:35 am

Decomposition begins within 5 minutes of oxygen deprivation
Histology (EM) shows that the mitochondria are amongst the first to go
Neurons would cease to function within minutes unless preserved at very low temperatures, but at those low temperatures they would not continue to communicate with other neurons
So 5 minutes after you stop breathing your brain begins to fall apart at the molecular level

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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:22 pm

mack_10 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:35 am
Decomposition begins within 5 minutes of oxygen deprivation
Histology (EM) shows that the mitochondria are amongst the first to go
Neurons would cease to function within minutes unless preserved at very low temperatures, but at those low temperatures they would not continue to communicate with other neurons
So 5 minutes after you stop breathing your brain begins to fall apart at the molecular level
First things first. Please give me evidence to your claims.

Second thing is that it is proven now beyond doubt that our genes are active even after we die:
“You would expect that with the death of the individual, there would be a decay in the activity of the genes,” Roderic Guigó, a professor of computational biology at the Barcelona Institute for Science and Technology, told BBC News.

But when Guigó and his colleagues compared genetic activity inside cells from post-mortem tissue and organ samples to the genetic activity of blood drawn from living humans, they found genetic expression continues after death.
Source: http://thenationonlineng.net/bodys-cell ... cientists/

There is more on the Internet about things like this. Also if you are dead after 5 minutes then this case is really interesting for you because his heart stopped beating and he was aware:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/04/heal ... index.html

That case even shocked Parnia because it ruins his believe system.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by landrew » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:33 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:22 pm

Second thing is that it is proven now beyond doubt that our genes are active even after we die:
“You would expect that with the death of the individual, there would be a decay in the activity of the genes,” Roderic Guigó, a professor of computational biology at the Barcelona Institute for Science and Technology, told BBC News.

But when Guigó and his colleagues compared genetic activity inside cells from post-mortem tissue and organ samples to the genetic activity of blood drawn from living humans, they found genetic expression continues after death.
What do you mean by "genetic activity?" Genes are not organs and do not function in the body. Genes are a database upon which protein synthesis occurs.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:34 am

landrew wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:33 pm
What do you mean by "genetic activity?" Genes are not organs and do not function in the body. Genes are a database upon which protein synthesis occurs.
That genes are active even after death and to show that that there are still mysteries about death without the use of some paranormal soul. Nothing more.

Here is another study which shows that neurons are active even after death:

https://www.sciencealert.com/brain-acti ... an-science
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by landrew » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:30 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:34 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:33 pm
What do you mean by "genetic activity?" Genes are not organs and do not function in the body. Genes are a database upon which protein synthesis occurs.
That genes are active even after death and to show that that there are still mysteries about death without the use of some paranormal soul. Nothing more.

Here is another study which shows that neurons are active even after death:

https://www.sciencealert.com/brain-acti ... an-science
Once again, there is nothing in your sources about "genes" or "genetic activity." You seem to have some sort of fundamental misunderstanding about genes.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:21 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:30 pm
Once again, there is nothing in your sources about "genes" or "genetic activity." You seem to have some sort of fundamental misunderstanding about genes.
Nope I do not have a fundamental misunderstanding about genes. The gene stuff was in the first source which claims that genes are active after death of our body that is all.

The second source is about neurons and that they are active even after death.

I am here trying to prove a point that after we die there is still activity in our body that is all which both scientific sources prove.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by landrew » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:30 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:21 pm
landrew wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:30 pm
Once again, there is nothing in your sources about "genes" or "genetic activity." You seem to have some sort of fundamental misunderstanding about genes.
Nope I do not have a fundamental misunderstanding about genes. The gene stuff was in the first source which claims that genes are active after death of our body that is all.

The second source is about neurons and that they are active even after death.

I am here trying to prove a point that after we die there is still activity in our body that is all which both scientific sources prove.
Brain activity, organ function and cell metabolism are all activities of the body. Genetics is not an activity. That makes no sense at all.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:47 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:30 pm
Brain activity, organ function and cell metabolism are all activities of the body. Genetics is not an activity. That makes no sense at all.
I know that genetics are not an activity. I maybe posted the wrong quote from the article and found a better source:
Like a machine whose components would take longer to shut down than others, the cells inside a dead body maintain biochemical activity for several hours after death. This is shown by an international team in a study published in the journal Nature Communication in mid-February 2018. “We observed active processes of certain genes after death, that is, an activity at the Genetic transcription mechanisms persist in some cells several hours after death,”
Source: https://www.thetalkingdemocrat.com/2018 ... urs-death/

I apologize for the wrong quote however if you would read the whole article I posted then it would make sense.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:37 pm

As is so often the case: so what? I find it very easy to believe that genes do some manufacturing of proteins within hours after death. Why not? Put two chemicals close together.....and they do their thing.

No more interesting than the fact that hair and fingernails keep growing. Again: so what?

So What??????????? Its a gateway question to the Answers of the Universe. Hmmmmm.......I feel a tee-shirt coming on.............
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by landrew » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:54 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:37 pm
As is so often the case: so what? I find it very easy to believe that genes do some manufacturing of proteins within hours after death. Why not? Put two chemicals close together.....and they do their thing.

No more interesting than the fact that hair and fingernails keep growing. Again: so what?

So What??????????? Its a gateway question to the Answers of the Universe. Hmmmmm.......I feel a tee-shirt coming on.............
Call me underwhelmed. A car wipers and headlights can remain functioning after a car crash.
So what indeed.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:40 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:37 pm
...the fact that hair and fingernails keep growing...
Apparently is a myth? Shrinking tissue makes it only seem that way?
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:43 pm

From the RSS Fetch: "life after death" https://www.sciencenews.org/article/dea ... lular-life
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Gord » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:21 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:40 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:37 pm
...the fact that hair and fingernails keep growing...
Apparently is a myth? Shrinking tissue makes it only seem that way?
It is a myth. It's been known to be a myth for a long, long time.

Check Snopes for some interesting information on the topic: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coffin-nails/
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:19 am

New evidence that the brain cells can function even after death:
Circulation and cellular activity were restored in a pig's brain four hours after its death, a finding that challenges long-held assumptions about the timing and irreversible nature of the cessation of some brain functions after death, Yale scientists report April 18 in the journal Nature.

The brain of a postmortem pig obtained from a meatpacking plant was isolated and circulated with a specially designed chemical solution. Many basic cellular functions, once thought to cease seconds or minutes after oxygen and blood flow cease, were observed, the scientists report.
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 132805.htm

This bring a new nail to the coffin of NDEs and their claims that the brain cells are damaged or dead after just few minutes or seconds and there is no way a brain could work.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by landrew » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:29 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:19 am
New evidence that the brain cells can function even after death:
Circulation and cellular activity were restored in a pig's brain four hours after its death, a finding that challenges long-held assumptions about the timing and irreversible nature of the cessation of some brain functions after death, Yale scientists report April 18 in the journal Nature.

The brain of a postmortem pig obtained from a meatpacking plant was isolated and circulated with a specially designed chemical solution. Many basic cellular functions, once thought to cease seconds or minutes after oxygen and blood flow cease, were observed, the scientists report.
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 132805.htm

This bring a new nail to the coffin of NDEs and their claims that the brain cells are damaged or dead after just few minutes or seconds and there is no way a brain could work.
Things are made moot around the definition of the "point of death" which is an arbitrary distinction.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:00 pm

Here is a new interview of Sam Parnia:

http://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010 ... de=Article

There are again no mentions of a hit but he claims he has heard several typical stories of NDE where someone was dead and even returned back to life after one hour he was declared death and that he described everything around himself. That story starts around 6:50.

The story he claims is proof of a afterlife has holes:

- He does not describe anything concrete.

- The staff if it even happened like the doctor described would be talking about it and with the patient to know what happened making the story even more unreliable.

- There are other people who were flat lined and returned back to life with no report of a NDE or anything paranormal: https://emj.bmj.com/content/18/1/74.full

- At 7:52 Parnia says that the doctor could not remember how much adrenaline he has given the patient and adrenaline is one of the factors that can cause a Lazarus Phenomena if the medication has a delayed action:
Another theory is the delayed action of medication used as a part of resuscitation efforts, such as adrenaline.


Source: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317645.php

- The patient was pumped full of drugs Parnia mentions at least adrenaline and phenylephrine.

If someone wants to add something more he is welcomed.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:06 pm

Happy Easter. :wave:
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by Shen1986 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:14 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:06 pm
Happy Easter. :wave:
You too. Thanks a lot. Also to everyone on this forum. Sorry for not showing here so often but I am quite busy now. Moved to the main city for a better job and that is taking a lot of my time now but it was worth it.
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Re: Sam Parnia new update

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:58 pm

Glad things are going well for you! :-D
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