The Inter Mind

What you think about how you think.
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landrew
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by landrew » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:21 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:23 pm
It's actually kind of entertaining listening to you Physicalists try to argue that the Experience of Pain has never had any influence on Evolution.
Actually, you seem immune to the fact that your vacuous assertion has been refuted constantly since you first posed it. Instead of supporting your claim that evolution is guided by pain, you make the same puerile assertions over and over. How much patience do you think we have?
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Cadmusteeth » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:00 am

He's like the Energizer Bunny.

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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:15 am

SteveKlinko wrote:. If Pain does not have any affect on Evolutionary Outcomes then why would Pain ever Evolve?
That was hilarious and shows your absolute idiocy!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

According to your logic.......

"toe nails must direct and guide evolution otherwise why did we evolve toe nails"

"Brown hair must direct and guide evolution otherwise why did we evolve brown hair?"

Can you see how amazingly stupid and ignorant you are concerning evolution? Are you really this stupid all the time? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:18 pm

Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:32 pm
So you have, Steve. I did spot this in the same section -
"You see the light come on and react because you know that's what you are supposed to do ..." in which you are using a light as an analogy for pain. So you are claiming that you feel the pain, analyse what it is and then choose your appropriate reaction. You sure about that?
With actual Pain you don't have to think about it. It is a supremely bad sensation and you will try to get rid of it.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:25 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:32 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:24 pm
I have updated the website section "Arguments for the Conscious Mind" Argument 5 to reflect the comments from this thread and other sources:
In all respects, just another example of "arm chair theorizing" which was overthrown by the Renaissance development of testing and replication of results. You know: the former being completely bogus.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:24 pm
This argument involves Evolution and the Conscious experience of Pain. I think Evolution could be heavily guided by Conscious Mind sensations.
.....but, but, but....this thread is replete with explanations regarding Millions of years of evolution without a pain response. If you move this to evolution gaining another stimulus when conscious of pain did arise.....that would be close I suppose but entirely different.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:24 pm
Animal Evolution might not even work without Pain.
...........a --n-- d..........THAT is where I stopped reading.

you don't even need to spend money..............reread this thread and gain a clue.
When it comes to Conscious Experience all we have is Armchair Theorizing. When Science gets a Clue then we can get into Testing and Replication of results.

Maybe Animal Evolution would work without Pain, but the Animals would certainly be different than what we have today. The Conscious Experience of Pain did guide Evolution on the Earth to the configuration that we have today.

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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:28 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:07 am
SteveKlinko wrote:. If Pain does not have any affect on Evolutionary Outcomes then why would Pain ever Evolve?
That was hilarious and shows your absolute idiocy!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

According to your logic.......

"toe nails must direct and guide evolution otherwise why did we evolve toe nails"

"Brown hair must direct and guide evolution otherwise why did we evolve brown hair?"

Can you see how amazingly stupid and ignorant you are concerning evolution? Are you really this stupid all the time?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If it was Painful to grow toenails and hair we would not have any today..

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:37 pm

Dimebag wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:11 am
How about genetic cases where pain sensations are absent when a person has such a genetic variation, is this a case where pain can affect an organisms chance of passing on its genes? Or is it the gene responsible for this genetic variation which affects the outcome? You have genotype and phenotype, one is the information responsible for passing on the trait, the other is the trait itself. Which has the bigger impact? I would argue the trait itself, as simply having the gene might not be enough to cause its expression, it may require environmental triggers.
It's just simply the case that if a person does not have Pain then they are at greater risk for serious injury and will probably not live as long as people with Pain. They will, as a group, not survive to pass their genes as readily as a group with Pain. What is the purpose for Pain? Is it just to torment us or does it give us a definite Evolutionary advantage?

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:44 pm

Poodle wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:52 am
Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:32 pm
So you have, Steve. I did spot this in the same section -
"You see the light come on and react because you know that's what you are supposed to do ..." in which you are using a light as an analogy for pain. So you are claiming that you feel the pain, analyse what it is and then choose your appropriate reaction. You sure about that?
Well, as Steve has decided not to respond to this (or is reading his encyclopaedia to find out) I'll give the game away. You're not sure, Steve, because it isn't always true. In fact, in common circumstances, your body has registered the pain and taken corrective action before the original pain message has even reached the brain. Before issuing definitive statements (which you are in the general habit of doing) don't you think it would be a good idea to check your facts?
If you are referring to something like the Hot Stove Reaction then of course it is a reflexive movement to remove your hand. But you will quite quickly Experience some pretty bad Pain. The Pain will be in your memory about Stoves and you will remember not to touch the Stove again. If your hand just reflexively pulled back from the Stove without any Pain there would not be much of a motive to be careful around Stoves. It is the Conscious Experience of the Pain itself that provides the future protection.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:46 pm

Gord wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:04 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:23 pm
It's actually kind of entertaining listening to you Physicalists try to argue that the Experience of Pain has never had any influence on Evolution.
I'm sorry, but you just changed your argument from "the conscious experience of pain" to just "the experience of pain".
I do like to emphasize the Conscious aspect of experience but aren't they the same thing?

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:53 pm

landrew wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:21 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:23 pm
It's actually kind of entertaining listening to you Physicalists try to argue that the Experience of Pain has never had any influence on Evolution.
Actually, you seem immune to the fact that your vacuous assertion has been refuted constantly since you first posed it. Instead of supporting your claim that evolution is guided by pain, you make the same puerile assertions over and over. How much patience do you think we have?
I will include you in the group that believes that the Experience of Pain had no influence on the Evolution of life here on Earth. So you think that the configuration of creatures on this Planet would have been the same as it is today even if there was no Pin. Very Good.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:46 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:25 pm
When it comes to Conscious Experience all we have is Armchair Theorizing. When Science gets a Clue then we can get into Testing and Replication of results.
Ignorance so profound, it must be a pose. I suppose repetition rather than engagement might drive one to such hysterical blindness. Early recognition of Conscious Experience came by observing brain damaged people....eg axe wounds to the head that revealed the brain. Its how we found out the heart wasn't the location of conscious thought. There is all kinds of experimental work going on. Its how we actually know things, and you don't. Try it.


SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:25 pm
Maybe Animal Evolution would work without Pain, but the Animals would certainly be different than what we have today. The Conscious Experience of Pain did guide Evolution on the Earth to the configuration that we have today.
Will you please slightly moderate yourself: single celled animals existed for billions of years before any pain response evolved. You need nerve cells to experience pain. This simple reality escapes your litany. You might even hone your own pleasure by accepting simple reality as a starting point?
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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:56 pm

SteveKlinko wrote: If it was Painful to grow toenails and hair we would not have any today..
I see.......... so women stopped having babies? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're not just stupid, you are also mad as a hatter

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Poodle » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:52 am

Steve - leave this evolutionary argument alone. You obviously do not know whereof you speak.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:31 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:46 pm
Gord wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:04 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:23 pm
It's actually kind of entertaining listening to you Physicalists try to argue that the Experience of Pain has never had any influence on Evolution.
I'm sorry, but you just changed your argument from "the conscious experience of pain" to just "the experience of pain".
I do like to emphasize the Conscious aspect of experience but aren't they the same thing?
No. There's also unconscious pain. See for instance: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10. ... 0802318246
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Dimebag » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:37 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:37 pm
Dimebag wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:11 am
How about genetic cases where pain sensations are absent when a person has such a genetic variation, is this a case where pain can affect an organisms chance of passing on its genes? Or is it the gene responsible for this genetic variation which affects the outcome? You have genotype and phenotype, one is the information responsible for passing on the trait, the other is the trait itself. Which has the bigger impact? I would argue the trait itself, as simply having the gene might not be enough to cause its expression, it may require environmental triggers.
What is the purpose for Pain? Is it just to torment us or does it give us a definite Evolutionary advantage?
This is the important question I think, because the sensation of pain also contains within it the self driven motivation to remove the source which is causing the pain. Furthermore, the pain sensation can be learned and associated with an environmental stimulus which is associated with the presence of a possility for future pain. I believe this is truly how consciousness improves an organisms chance of survival over and above one without consciousness, the ability to learn what can lead to threat and danger and to predict and avoid such a threat. An organism which is not conscious but only has lower level perceptions will not have this advantage.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:40 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:46 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:25 pm
When it comes to Conscious Experience all we have is Armchair Theorizing. When Science gets a Clue then we can get into Testing and Replication of results.
Ignorance so profound, it must be a pose. I suppose repetition rather than engagement might drive one to such hysterical blindness. Early recognition of Conscious Experience came by observing brain damaged people....eg axe wounds to the head that revealed the brain. Its how we found out the heart wasn't the location of conscious thought. There is all kinds of experimental work going on. Its how we actually know things, and you don't. Try it.


SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:25 pm
Maybe Animal Evolution would work without Pain, but the Animals would certainly be different than what we have today. The Conscious Experience of Pain did guide Evolution on the Earth to the configuration that we have today.
Will you please slightly moderate yourself: single celled animals existed for billions of years before any pain response evolved. You need nerve cells to experience pain. This simple reality escapes your litany. You might even hone your own pleasure by accepting simple reality as a starting point?
I never said when the Pain experience began. All I said was that Organisms and Animals that did experience Pain had a survival advantage. This survival advantage probably produced a different Evolutionary outcome than if Pain had never been introduced.

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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:45 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:56 pm
SteveKlinko wrote: If it was Painful to grow toenails and hair we would not have any today..
I see.......... so women stopped having babies? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're not just stupid, you are also mad as a hatter
Obviously the Pain of childbirth did not stop women from having babies. It's a short term Pain that goes away. The drive to have babies outweighs the Pain.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:47 pm

Gord wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:31 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:46 pm
Gord wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:04 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:23 pm
It's actually kind of entertaining listening to you Physicalists try to argue that the Experience of Pain has never had any influence on Evolution.
I'm sorry, but you just changed your argument from "the conscious experience of pain" to just "the experience of pain".
I do like to emphasize the Conscious aspect of experience but aren't they the same thing?
No. There's also unconscious pain. See for instance: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10. ... 0802318246
It's irrelevant if there is unconscious Pain. The discussion is about Conscious Pain.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:49 pm

Dimebag wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:37 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:37 pm
Dimebag wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:11 am
How about genetic cases where pain sensations are absent when a person has such a genetic variation, is this a case where pain can affect an organisms chance of passing on its genes? Or is it the gene responsible for this genetic variation which affects the outcome? You have genotype and phenotype, one is the information responsible for passing on the trait, the other is the trait itself. Which has the bigger impact? I would argue the trait itself, as simply having the gene might not be enough to cause its expression, it may require environmental triggers.
What is the purpose for Pain? Is it just to torment us or does it give us a definite Evolutionary advantage?
This is the important question I think, because the sensation of pain also contains within it the self driven motivation to remove the source which is causing the pain. Furthermore, the pain sensation can be learned and associated with an environmental stimulus which is associated with the presence of a possility for future pain. I believe this is truly how consciousness improves an organisms chance of survival over and above one without consciousness, the ability to learn what can lead to threat and danger and to predict and avoid such a threat. An organism which is not conscious but only has lower level perceptions will not have this advantage.
Exactly.

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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:09 pm

Steve Klinko is an Idiot
SteveKlinko wrote: If it was Painful to grow toenails and hair we would not have any today..
Matthew Ellard wrote:I see.......... so women stopped having babies? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You're not just stupid, you are also mad as a hatter
SteveKlinko wrote: Obviously the Pain of childbirth did not stop women from having babies. It's a short term Pain that goes away. The drive to have babies outweighs the Pain.
So you entire claim on this forum is wrong :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why are you so stupid? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:21 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:09 pm
Steve Klinko is an Idiot
SteveKlinko wrote: If it was Painful to grow toenails and hair we would not have any today..
Matthew Ellard wrote:I see.......... so women stopped having babies? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You're not just stupid, you are also mad as a hatter
SteveKlinko wrote: Obviously the Pain of childbirth did not stop women from having babies. It's a short term Pain that goes away. The drive to have babies outweighs the Pain.
So you entire claim on this forum is wrong :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why are you so stupid? :lol: :lol: :lol:
If Pain does enable a survival advantage then you must admit that the Conscious experience of Pain can affect Evolutionary outcomes. If Pain does not enable a survival advantage then what is the purpose of Pain?

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Poodle » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:35 pm

As has already been pointed out, Steve, the quickest 'pain' reaction doesn't involve the brain, and that's the one which provides the evolutionary outcome in that it involves getting your foot/stub/appendage off that burning twig in the fastest possible time. That reaction can be handled by a (relatively) simple ganglion. Given that, the conscious experience of pain is a later development which could not possibly have arisen had 'ganglionic' control failed as a strategy.

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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:42 am

SteveKlinko wrote: If Pain does enable a survival advantage then you must admit that the Conscious experience of Pain can affect Evolutionary outcomes.
Genes that evolved to allow for the feeling pain, is already an evolutionary outcome. It has already evolved.

Your Inter Mind religious claim, was that the conscious experience (ie pain) would guide evolution in a particular way. That is complete crap and you have been unable to set out any evolutionary process that explain your ridiculous claim
SteveKlinko wrote:If Pain does not enable a survival advantage then what is the purpose of Pain?
"Pain" is a set of many conscious activities to modify a species's behaviour. ( If I break my leg and it hurts, I won't use it until it stops hurting.) These behavioural modifiers already exist in species, that have not evolved consciousness, as evolved innate behaviour.

Stop wasting our time and go read a couple basic books on how evolution works. If you don't like science then stop posting on our science based forum.
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm

Poodle wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:35 pm
As has already been pointed out, Steve, the quickest 'pain' reaction doesn't involve the brain, and that's the one which provides the evolutionary outcome in that it involves getting your foot/stub/appendage off that burning twig in the fastest possible time. That reaction can be handled by a (relatively) simple ganglion. Given that, the conscious experience of pain is a later development which could not possibly have arisen had 'ganglionic' control failed as a strategy.
Without the actual experience of Pain what would stop an organism from putting an appendage back into the fire multiple times even if there is an automatic reflex to pull it out. The reflex itself would not be understandable to a primitive organism. The memory of the experience of Pain is the thing that stops an organism from going back to the fire.

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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by SteveKlinko » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:12 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:42 am
SteveKlinko wrote: If Pain does enable a survival advantage then you must admit that the Conscious experience of Pain can affect Evolutionary outcomes.
Genes that evolved to allow for the feeling pain, is already an evolutionary outcome. It has already evolved.

Your Inter Mind religious claim, was that the conscious experience (ie pain) would guide evolution in a particular way. That is complete crap and you have been unable to set out any evolutionary process that explain your ridiculous claim
SteveKlinko wrote:If Pain does not enable a survival advantage then what is the purpose of Pain?
"Pain" is a set of many conscious activities to modify a species's behaviour. ( If I break my leg and it hurts, I won't use it until it stops hurting.) These behavioural modifiers already exist in species, that have not evolved consciousness, as evolved innate behaviour.

Stop wasting our time and go read a couple basic books on how evolution works. If you don't like science then stop posting on our science based forum.
Evolution for dummies.jpg
You are stumbling around with semantics. It would be completely proper to say that the Tracks Guide the Train. This is how Pain Guides evolution. It is all mechanical with no Religion needed.

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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:15 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:12 pm
You are stumbling around with semantics. It would be completely proper to say that the Tracks Guide the Train. This is how Pain Guides evolution. It is all mechanical with no Religion needed.
So........who put the tracks down..............and who decided where they would go? the only missing religious element is forcing you onto the train and not allowing you to jump off.
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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:51 am

SteveKlinko wrote:You are stumbling around with semantics. It would be completely proper to say that the Tracks Guide the Train. This is how Pain Guides evolution. It is all mechanical with no Religion needed.
Nope. I have now presented many clear and simple forms of evidence that you inter mind religion is complete nonsense. Would you like to see the list again?

I also note that you are absolutely unable to explain the mechanism for your "pain guides evolution" rubbish.

I also note that you refuse to read one science book on evolution as you don't want to deal with your own failures.

Try selling your awful t-shirts on a religious forum next time.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Poodle » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:26 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
Poodle wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:35 pm
As has already been pointed out, Steve, the quickest 'pain' reaction doesn't involve the brain, and that's the one which provides the evolutionary outcome in that it involves getting your foot/stub/appendage off that burning twig in the fastest possible time. That reaction can be handled by a (relatively) simple ganglion. Given that, the conscious experience of pain is a later development which could not possibly have arisen had 'ganglionic' control failed as a strategy.
Without the actual experience of Pain what would stop an organism from putting an appendage back into the fire multiple times even if there is an automatic reflex to pull it out. The reflex itself would not be understandable to a primitive organism. The memory of the experience of Pain is the thing that stops an organism from going back to the fire.
Wrong question again, Steve. Why would any simple mobile organism, having changed direction in response to a stimulus, return to its original direction with no further stimulus? I suggest you get hold of a few amoebae and actually test your assumptions. We won't demand an apology when you discover how wrong assumptions can be.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:59 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
Without the actual experience of Pain what would stop an organism from putting an appendage back into the fire multiple times even if there is an automatic reflex to pull it out.
The co-evolving response of not repeating what caused the automatic reflex. Those that had that co-development lived to reproduce, those that did not, did not. Simple and direct...no need for consciousness or memory of pain. Just "behavior" controlled by unthinking genetic evolution of what "worked."
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
The reflex itself would not be understandable to a primitive organism.
Thats correct....there is NO UNDERSTANDING OF ANYTHING...until much higher order creatures. This is very basic evolutionary mechanics. What reproduces puts its dna code into the future..........what dna doesn't compete well enough to reproduce, DIES OUT. No understanding about it required at all...................Kinda like Hoomans and Global Warming right now.........Ha, ha.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
The memory of the experience of Pain is the thing that stops an organism from going back to the fire.
There is no memory of anything at all. contra: why would a memory of pain be possible if the memory of the automatic reflex is not? Thats not consistent at all.
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Gord » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:40 am

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:23 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:15 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:12 pm
You are stumbling around with semantics. It would be completely proper to say that the Tracks Guide the Train. This is how Pain Guides evolution. It is all mechanical with no Religion needed.
So........who put the tracks down..............and who decided where they would go? the only missing religious element is forcing you onto the train and not allowing you to jump off.
Who put the Track down is really irrelevant to how the Tracks guide the Train.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:25 pm

Poodle wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:26 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
Poodle wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:35 pm
As has already been pointed out, Steve, the quickest 'pain' reaction doesn't involve the brain, and that's the one which provides the evolutionary outcome in that it involves getting your foot/stub/appendage off that burning twig in the fastest possible time. That reaction can be handled by a (relatively) simple ganglion. Given that, the conscious experience of pain is a later development which could not possibly have arisen had 'ganglionic' control failed as a strategy.
Without the actual experience of Pain what would stop an organism from putting an appendage back into the fire multiple times even if there is an automatic reflex to pull it out. The reflex itself would not be understandable to a primitive organism. The memory of the experience of Pain is the thing that stops an organism from going back to the fire.
Wrong question again, Steve. Why would any simple mobile organism, having changed direction in response to a stimulus, return to its original direction with no further stimulus? I suggest you get hold of a few amoebae and actually test your assumptions. We won't demand an apology when you discover how wrong assumptions can be.
Think ... more evolved Organisms and Animals.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:28 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:59 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
Without the actual experience of Pain what would stop an organism from putting an appendage back into the fire multiple times even if there is an automatic reflex to pull it out.
The co-evolving response of not repeating what caused the automatic reflex. Those that had that co-development lived to reproduce, those that did not, did not. Simple and direct...no need for consciousness or memory of pain. Just "behavior" controlled by unthinking genetic evolution of what "worked."
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
The reflex itself would not be understandable to a primitive organism.
Thats correct....there is NO UNDERSTANDING OF ANYTHING...until much higher order creatures. This is very basic evolutionary mechanics. What reproduces puts its dna code into the future..........what dna doesn't compete well enough to reproduce, DIES OUT. No understanding about it required at all...................Kinda like Hoomans and Global Warming right now.........Ha, ha.
SteveKlinko wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:07 pm
The memory of the experience of Pain is the thing that stops an organism from going back to the fire.
There is no memory of anything at all. contra: why would a memory of pain be possible if the memory of the automatic reflex is not? Thats not consistent at all.
Memory of the Automatic Reflex could very well exist but it would not have the motivating force that memory of Pain would have.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:30 pm

Gord wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:40 am
Good one.

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Thank goodness there was such a forgiving entity.
God is so wonderful.

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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:50 am

SteveKlinko wrote: Who put the Track down is really irrelevant to how the Tracks guide the Train.
You complete idiot. Mutations are random. There are no "train tracks"in evolution. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:54 am

SteveKlinko wrote: Memory of the Automatic Reflex could very well exist but it would not have the motivating force that memory of Pain would have.
Why are you so stupid? How can my conscious motivation "guide" new types of genes to arise, when new genes are random mutations?

You really don't have a clue what evolution is do you? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:56 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:28 pm
Memory of the Automatic Reflex could very well exist but it would not have the motivating force that memory of Pain would have.
Your terminology is all your own, not scientific, on point, or relevant at all. HUMANS have memory and are motivated....evolution does not, is not. RANDOM MUTATIONS are SELECTED FOR BY THE ENVIRONMENT: no thinking, consciousness, or memory about it.

Again: evolution is NOT A FORCE, or a stimulus or guide itself....but rather is a consequence or outcome of other environmental forces/conditions. Its simple to misapprehend the basic concept/applicability of evolution.....but equally as simple to correct the errors if you want to.
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Re: The Inter Mind

Post by Poodle » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:45 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:28 pm
... Memory of the Automatic Reflex could very well exist but it would not have the motivating force that memory of Pain would have.
This is a good illustration of where you are constantly going so wrong, Steve. You make a positive statement which is actually merely your opinion. This is not an isolated case - your entire thesis is merely your opinion. You have said nothing, neither here nor on your own website, which can be ascertained as fact.

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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:09 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:54 am
SteveKlinko wrote: Memory of the Automatic Reflex could very well exist but it would not have the motivating force that memory of Pain would have.
Why are you so stupid? How can my conscious motivation "guide" new types of genes to arise, when new genes are random mutations?

You really don't have a clue what evolution is do you? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I said Motivating Force not Conscious Motivation. Doing your Lying Ellard routine again I see.