The Chemistry of Auschwitz

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:55 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:12 pm

How long do you think it would take to get 2500 people to walk through a single door a corrdor another single door at right angles and line up like sardines while air is depleted. A trained army could not do this let alone civilians, women and children.
The air wasn’t depleted until the door shut, what in the {!#%@} are you talking about? The people walking into the gas chamber would see what they expected...a set of showers. The only thing out of place would be the wire mesh columns but then the door would shut. After that it wouldn’t matter.

2500 people squashed into an area of 210m2 gives an area of 0.084m2 per person or 12 people per square metre. Prof. Dr. G. Keith Still managed to get 4 people per square metre so those awful nazis were using some kind of unknown magic. People at the end would be crushed to death long before the doors closed. How ludicrous.
The number of people per room was probably lower. There were four main gas chambers (II, III, IV and V) along with bunker I and II so the number from a transport could be spread out (though either bunker I or II was destroyed in 1943, don’t remember which off hand.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:03 am

VFX wrote:
We have discounted all of the witnesses as liars and use the official narrative. A link to that narrative was given.
Actually that link screws you because it didn’t exactly say “10 minutes.”
Do you have multiple personalities or multiple voices in your head? Is that the “we” you are talking about?
I don't care if it says 10 mins but it did not say hours which is all that matters here.
Except that you (or is it we? :D) brought up that people enclosed in a room start to quickly use up the available oxygen. Is there something wrong with your short term memory?
We as in RODOH have discounted the liewitnesses totally.
I don’t give a rat’s ass what you and that merry band of morons discounted.
If you are keen on alleged gassing claims you research I do not give a stuff as there were no gassing incidents except by accident.
Except that you brought it up in your own thread!!!!!

So, what yer telling me is you don’t have a clue about what the witnesses said.... :rotfl:

You even had to resort to linking to HEART (of all places) because you don’t know what the witnesses said.

That is both funny and sad at the same time.
Please stick to the topic which is the chemistry of Auschwitz and try not to do a Nessie. Be a good boy and run along now.
Yet you linked this chemistry to what the witnesses said so it relates.

Please get me that information, it might even help you learn something.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 am

Jeff please stick to the chemistry aspects and please do not pretend you are some intellect as you are clearly not.
Dr. Nyiszli claims he witnessed a gassing
The Deputy Health Officer held four green sheet-iron cannisters. He advanced across the grass, where, every thirty yards, short concrete pipes jutted up from the ground. Having donned his gas mask, he lifted the lid of the pipe, which was also made of concrete. He opened one of the cans and poured the contents — a mauve granulated material into the opening.
Twenty minutes later the electric ventilators were set going in order to evacuate the gas. The doors opened, the trucks arrived, and a Sonderkommando squad loaded the clothing and the shoes separately. They were going to disinfect them. This time it was a real case of disinfection. Later they would transport them by rail to various parts of the country.

Now of course everyone knows Zb is not mauve but blue, but 20 mins between adding the Zb and opening the doors seems somewhat standard in the official narrative giving an LD50 of 10 mins of 300ppm HCN dose. Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed he managed to walk out when the camp was liberated. Now stick to Germars chemistry and try and not get side tracked. Be nice if you could say your opposition in your own words but you cannot due to inferior knowledge of real chemistry.
Your dumb response is still like the start: duh it is poisonous and so people die. Pathetic.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Balsamo » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:17 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 am
Jeff please stick to the chemistry aspects and please do not pretend you are some intellect as you are clearly not.
Dr. Nyiszli claims he witnessed a gassing
The Deputy Health Officer held four green sheet-iron cannisters. He advanced across the grass, where, every thirty yards, short concrete pipes jutted up from the ground. Having donned his gas mask, he lifted the lid of the pipe, which was also made of concrete. He opened one of the cans and poured the contents — a mauve granulated material into the opening.
Twenty minutes later the electric ventilators were set going in order to evacuate the gas. The doors opened, the trucks arrived, and a Sonderkommando squad loaded the clothing and the shoes separately. They were going to disinfect them. This time it was a real case of disinfection. Later they would transport them by rail to various parts of the country.

Now of course everyone knows Zb is not mauve but blue, but 20 mins between adding the Zb and opening the doors seems somewhat standard in the official narrative giving an LD50 of 10 mins of 300ppm HCN dose. Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed he managed to walk out when the camp was liberated. Now stick to Germars chemistry and try and not get side tracked. Be nice if you could say your opposition in your own words but you cannot due to inferior knowledge of real chemistry.
Your dumb response is still like the start: duh it is poisonous and so people die. Pathetic.
You should at least be able to read properly before making pejorative judgement on the people gentle enough to read and answer your crap, VRX, seriously.
Give attention to Nyiszli version, which no one here would pretend to be the perfect description, but that is beside the point:
Nyiszli:
He opened one of the cans and poured the contents — a mauve granulated material into the opening.
Without knowing from where and at what time he witnessed this specific scene, to argue about the color of the material is just silly...blue can very well look mauve depending on the light.
Twenty minutes later the electric ventilators were set going in order to evacuate the gas.
That is twenty minutes after having poured the zb the ventilators were set going.
The doors opened, the trucks arrived, and a Sonderkommando squad loaded the clothing and the shoes separately.
You do realize that this is a different sentence describing a different scene, that is the loading of the clothing from the undressing room. The SK team in charge with the cloths had nothing to do with the gas chambers.
So in the context of this specific quote, how the hell do you come to the conclusion that the "doors opened" in this quote are the doors of the gas chambers?

At this point, you seem very confused to be polite:
When you write:
but 20 mins between adding the Zb and opening the doors seems somewhat standard in the official narrative giving an LD50 of 10 mins of 300ppm HCN dose.
You should realize that the few lines taken from Nyiszli does not say that at all.
What they say is that 20 minutes after the introduction of Zb the ventilator were set going. That is basically it.
There is no way to conclude that the doors opened in that quote are those of the gas chambers, because no SK carrying cloths would have come out from those doors.
And you are wrong, when it comes to time frames, there are just NO official narrative.
Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed he managed to walk out when the camp was liberated.
Again a great expression of your ignorance. Not only did quite a substantial numbers of SK managed to survive, but Doctor Nyiszli was not so to speak a member of the SK.
Now stick to Germars chemistry and try and not get side tracked.
LOL, you just came out with this {!#%@} and keep giving lessons, quite amazing.
Now you Nazi chemist himself admitted that he did not have all the data, and given that chemistry, contrary to history, is supposed to be an exact science, it needs exact data to propose a valid theory.
This he could not do, and you cannot neither.
So not only you seems to ignore the basic of the historical knowledge of what you arguing against, but i guess that you have no clue about scientific chemistry neither.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:25 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 am
Jeff please stick to the chemistry aspects
Like you?
and please do not pretend you are some intellect as you are clearly not.
I don’t pretend anything. I’ve asked you for witness statements that you brought up. Is a link from HEART the best you can do?
Dr. Nyiszli claims he witnessed a gassing
The Deputy Health Officer held four green sheet-iron cannisters. He advanced across the grass, where, every thirty yards, short concrete pipes jutted up from the ground. Having donned his gas mask, he lifted the lid of the pipe, which was also made of concrete. He opened one of the cans and poured the contents — a mauve granulated material into the opening.
Twenty minutes later the electric ventilators were set going in order to evacuate the gas.


So, not 10 minutes and even within the parameters you set on how long it would take for people to die due to lack of oxygen. This is without any calculation regarding the use of Zyclon B. So...you just screwed yourself. Again.

The doors opened, the trucks arrived, and a Sonderkommando squad loaded the clothing and the shoes separately. They were going to disinfect them. This time it was a real case of disinfection. Later they would transport them by rail to various parts of the country.


Now of course everyone knows Zb is not mauve
but blue,
Mauve is a shade of purple, it runs this spectrum:

Image

Depending on how far away he was I can see why he used that word. That is, if the statement is translated correctly.
but 20 mins between adding the Zb and opening the doors seems somewhat standard in the official narrative
Yet you said 10. So, you admit you were wrong. It’s good you can admit what we all know.
giving an LD50 of 10 mins of 300ppm HCN dose.
It was likely higher due to four columns using 4 cans of Zyclon B. This, combined with oxygen deprivation, is enough to kill those in the room.

There’s a lot we don’t know, it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that not everyone was dead in the room. Some might have been unconscious but died anyway because they were not treated. Or they were unconscious and burned alive. There is one instance where the SK’s found a teenage girl alive but the SS shot her. That was an incident described by Dr. Nyiszli.
Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed he managed to walk out when the camp was liberated.
He never worked as an SK dragging bodies you idjit. Dr.
Nyiszli worked as a doctor in the camp under Mengele’s supervision.

Oh, my God....... :rotfl:

Next time google harder....LOL :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl: :lol:
Be nice if you could say your opposition in your own words but you cannot due to inferior knowledge of real chemistry.
Yer just parroting Rudolf, climb off the high horse.
Your dumb response is still like the start: duh it is poisonous and so people die. Pathetic.
I’ve said a lot more since then.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


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“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:09 am

>> Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed ...

This is also incorrect. We do, after all, have testimonies from surviving members of the SK.

As I posted in 2016:
Świebocki writes on p 249 [of vol V of the museum's camp history] that during the SK revolt in October 1944 about 250 SK members were killed, including those who’d barricaded themselves in a barn in the village of Rajsko; the Germans “set the barn afire and murdered the prisoners.” Also, another 200 SK members who had not escaped the compound were shot by SS “in an immediate reprisal.” Earlier, at the end of September, about 200 SK members had been transferred from their compound for gassing in the Entwesungskammer in the Main Camp (Strzelecki, above, pp 111-112).

In an appendix to the camp history, on p 341, Świebocki explains that the SK revolt of October 1944 was carried out when members of the SK determined that the Germans, as gassing operations wound down, were beginning the extermination of the Kommando itself. An order to transport 300 SK members from Kremas IV-V on 7 October was the precipitating event; Świebocki includes (pp 361-363) Gradowski’s writing about this incident.

By the way, we learn from Danuta Czech (p 216 of volume IV of the official camp history) that on 7 October, the day of the SK revolt, 663 inmates worked in the SK. In and immediately following the revolt, 450 out of 663 SK members were killed, leaving 213 inmates to continue with the work at the Kremas. On p 217 Czech explains that one of the camp SS made a speech after the revolt warning these survivors of death for any further disruptions after which “normal work” resumed in Kremas II, III, and V. By 10 October, after further arrests of SK members, 198 inmates remained in the SK, divided into 3 details of 66 each (p 218). From 10 October these details completed the demolition of Krema IV and processed further gassing victims. By late November Krema II was being dismantled (p 222). On 26 November there was a selection of SK members, with 170 taken away, ostensibly for showers in the Sauna (according to Strzelecki about 100 were in fact removed to Gross-Rosen, p 112); the remaining SK members operated Krema V (p 223). In December prisoners from the camp were brought to the Krema areas to assist in dismantling the Kremas, beginning with Krema III (pp 223-224). On 15 January 70 prisoners who had been in the SK, now making up Detail 104 B (Krema demolition detail), continued working at dismantling the Kremas, taking salvaged equipment to the railway siding from where it was shipped out to Gross Rosen. Demolition work included dynamiting the Krema and gas chamber buildings. A squad of SK members, about 30 in number, was assigned burning corpses in Krema V. (p 226) On 18 January prisoners were marched out of Auschwitz, the demolition work not completed as the Red Army approached the camp. On 20 January the SS had a group of inmates bring dynamite to Kremas II and III; an SS unit under SS-Unterscharführer Herschel dynamited the structures. (p 229) Another SS unit blew up Krema V on 26 January. (p 229) The final evacuation transport left Auschwitz on 27 January 1945.

More detailed information on the last period of Auschwitz, including its dismantling and evacuation, is found in Strzelecki, The Evacuation, Dismantling and Liberation of KL Auschwitz, mentioned above. Strzelecki states that the SK members who survived up to the time of the camp’s evacuation cheated their intended execution: “In January 1945 these workers managed to escape from their SS supervisors by mingling in with other prisoners who were being evacuated.” (p 112) . . .
If VFX disagrees, I think he should explain why and what the flaws are in the work of Świebocki, Czech, and Strzelecki; at any rate, it is not argued that "all" the members of the SK "were executed" as VFX seems to think.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:00 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:09 am
>> Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed ...

This is also incorrect. We do, after all, have testimonies from surviving members of the SK.
You seem to put a lot of faith into paid liars. Perhaps it was sunrise or sunset when the good honest doctor saw with his own eyes the colours of the Zb pellets. For a top secret mission I doubt if this man would be alive to tell any stories one way or another if what he observed were in the remotest bit true unless it was the fumigation of clothing only. You may cling to the word of such people but they are taken with a grain of salt for the most part.
One of the most detailed description of a gassing said to have occurred in one of these buildings was given by Richard Böck, a former Auschwitz SS man. Here is what he testified about what he claimed to have witnessed –

“Then an SS man came […] and got out a gas canister. He then went to a ladder with this gas canister. […] At the same time, I noticed that he had a gas mask on while climbing the ladder. […] he shook […] the contents of the canister into the opening. […] When he had closed the little door again, an indescribable crying began in the chamber. […] That lasted approximately 8-10 minutes, and then all was silent. A short time afterwards, the gate was opened by inmates, and one could see a bluish cloud floating over a gigantic pile of corpses. […] At any rate, I was surprised that the inmate commando who was assigned to removing the bodies entered the chamber without gas masks, although this blue vapor floated over the corpses, from which I assume that it was a gas.”
There are many problems with this, not the least that HCN fumes are colourless. I guess the person got confused with Prussian Blue and attributed it to the colour of the acid. Now there is the issue of entering without gas masks which is not relevant since HCN is rapidly absorbed through moist skin giving a lethal dose in minutes. Obviously this person did not notice any ventilation system or on that particular mass gassing was not used.
There is also a problem with the gas holes. The lack of any trace of the claimed holes in that roof has caused mainstream historians some difficulty to explain. Jewish-Dutch cultural historian Dr. van Pelt stated about this on page 295 of his 1999 expert report submitted as evidence in the libel trial of British historian David Irving against American author Deborah Lipstadt and her publisher, Penguin Books – quote:

“Today, these four small holes […] cannot be observed in the ruined remains of the concrete slab.”

British engineer Paul Barford, who around the same time was assisting the Auschwitz Museum in efforts to conserve and restore the camp, wrote in an email to David Irving in May 2000 – quote:

“As you can guess, despite my belief that you and the Revisionists are wrong, and despite spending half an hour examining the collapsed roof of the underground gas chamber of Crematorium II from different angles, I found no evidence of the four holes that the eyewitnesses say were there […]. I remain puzzled by the lack of physical evidence for these holes.”
If, as some claim, Zyklon B was simply thrown through some holes in the roof of those morgues, similar to the claims for the old crematorium in the Main Camp, then the problem arising here as well would have been that it would have been impossible to successfully ventilate this room within a short period of time. The Zyklon B releasing its poison gas for at least another hour would have prevented that.

Some witnesses claim that certain devices were installed through those holes. One witness in particular is frequently quoted in this context: Michał Kula, a former Auschwitz inmate who worked in the camp’s metalworking shop. During three post-war depositions, he made a number of statements about Auschwitz, several of which are demonstrably false, which casts a very unfavorable light on this witness’s trustworthiness. Of interest for our topic are two of these depositions where he gave more or less detailed, yet partially contradictory descriptions about the devices allegedly built by his workshop. The first description made prior to the show trial against former camp commander Rudolf Höss described a column consisting of three layers. An inner, removable wire-mesh column, 20 cm wide and deep, was surrounded by two more columns of a wider wire mesh. The outer column was 3 meters high, and 70 cm wide and deep.

The problem with that column is that it was too big even for the only two existing holes in the roof of Crematorium II. The biggest of them is barely 50 cm wide.

During the trial, Kula testified, and while so doing, changed the dimensions of the column. Most importantly, its width had now shrunk to only 24 cm, hence roughly a third of his initial description.

Interesting in this context is Kula’s description of the inner column, which could be removed. It is said to have consisted of an inner layer of solid sheet metal, and an outer layer of a fine wire-mesh screen with openings of merely one millimeter. The inner sheet-metal column was capped with a pyramid-shaped lid. Zyklon B is said to have been poured onto this pyramid. The gypsum pellets subsequently fell into the space between the inner sheet-metal column and the outer wire-mesh screen. This would maximize the pellets’ exposure to the surrounding air and thus accelerate the evaporation of hydrogen cyanide. After the crime, the inner column could be removed, thus making a swift ventilation of the room possible.

Hence, Kula’s columns are the orthodoxy’s magic bullet to reduce the time during which this claimed gas chamber’s walls would have been exposed to the lethal gas.

The problems with this are manifold:

First, as mentioned before, Kula obviously was a liar.

Next, there is no documentary or physical evidence that these columns ever existed.

Furthermore, these columns would have to have been firmly anchored in a panic-proof manner in both the floor and ceiling of that room, leaving indelible traces of the anchoring points. Here is a drawing on how structures are being anchored in concrete after the concrete has already been poured. But there aren’t any traces of such anchoring points. A large part of the floor of Morgue I of Crematorium III was actually cleared of all rubble during excavations carried out in August 1968. French historian Jean-Claude Pressac showed a photo of that excavation in his 1989 book on page 234. Not a trace of any anchoring points was found, though. There aren’t any visible in the ruins of Morgue one of Crematorium II today either.

Even orthodox historians agree that Kula’s columns had to be firmly anchored with massive bolts in the floor and ceiling of the claimed gas chambers. Here is a photo of a column built following the directions of the already-mentioned Jan van Pelt, clearly showing the bolts that would go into the floor and ceiling.

In addition, Kula claimed that the outer column’s wire mesh consisted of wire three millimeters thick. That column’s only purpose would have been to protect the inner columns from the panicking crowds. A meshwork made of wire merely three millimeters thick wouldn’t have done the trick. Van Pelt understood this well, so when he constructed a model of Kula’s column for an architectural exhibition, he departed from some of Kula’s data, most importantly by using solid 8-mm interwoven steel rods for the outer column’s meshwork.

Moreover, Kula’s column wouldn’t even have worked. In his second description of the device during the trial, where he reduced the width of the contraption to make it more realistic, he claimed that the slit of the inner column into which the Zyklon B is said to have been poured was only 15 mm wide. Here is an image showing the size of the Zyklon-B’s gypsum pellets. Try pouring such objects into a slit 15 mm wide. You’ll quickly discover that they get stuck in lumps, jamming the slit. In addition, if you use Zyklon B in a room with 100% humidity, moisture will condense on the gypsum pellets, making them stick together, for moist gypsum has the habit of getting gooey. Hence, even if you managed to get some of the pellets to trickle down that slit, getting it out after the deed would have been a mess.

Finally and most importantly, Kula’s method of introducing the poison into the chamber is incompatible with the claimed speed of execution. Remember, in U.S. gas chambers, where the poison gas instantly engulfs the victim in high concentrations, it takes up to 10 minutes to incapacitate all victims, and even more before they are actually dead.

Zyklon B releases its gas only slowly, and if used in a high-moisture environment with no forced evaporation, this process slows down to a crawl. So, the question is, how can one swiftly obtain, using moist Zyklon B, poison-gas concentrations even in the most remote corner of the gas chamber which are at least twice as high as were used in U.S. execution gas chambers? Alas, there is no possible way. To get anywhere close to this, we would have to increase the amount of Zyklon B to extremes in order to have a quick rise in concentrations beyond what was used in U.S. execution chambers. I have made some calculations which resulted in some 60 kilograms of Zyklon B which would have to be used to achieve an execution time of five minutes, which means some 15 kg – or 15 cans – for each column. Since the volume of the slit-shaped space of Kula’s column, second edition, was some 25 liters, and because the bulk density of the gypsum pellets was well under a kilogram of hydrogen cyanide per liter, Kula’s columns may not even have been able to accommodate that amount, even if it had been possible to fill them densely and completely. Pouring in those 15 cans into that column alone would have taken so much time that it would have foiled the plan to kill swiftly. Even-faster execution times, such as two of the four physicians have claimed, are impossible to achieve.

No matter which way we look at it, the claimed scenarios are impossible. It is also absurd, because no sane SS officer knowing advanced fumigation technologies would have consented to having crude holes knocked through a reinforced concrete roof, irreparably damaging it in the process, in order to install several inoperable columns into them for a purpose which they could not serve.

The whole hypothesis is an insult to any thinking person.

First, there were no holes in the roof.

Second, there were no columns installed anywhere.

Third, even if there were, they wouldn’t have worked.

And finally, the room was equipped with a ventilation system designed for a morgue, see the exhaust channels in orange (number 1) and the air intake channels in blue (number 2) in this blue print. After the decision was allegedly made in late 1942 to convert that morgue into a chemical slaughter room, the ventilation system was not upgraded. That, next to a smart design to get the poison into the chamber and some sturdy doors to keep the victims inside, are design changes that would have been necessary for converting these rooms into mass-execution chambers. None of it ever happened.

Hence, none of it ever happened.

Anyway, ventilating a room chock-full of Zyklon B intermingled with a thousand corpses or more would have taken many hours. Which means that the average contact time of hydrogen cyanide with the masonry would not have been just a few minutes, but more in the order of magnitude of an hour or two. That may be up to a factor ten lower than what can be expected for fumigations, but it is barely enough to offset the other factors favoring the homicidal gas chambers with regard to the formation of Prussian Blue. Hence, down goes the last crutch on which the orthodox hypothesis rests.

So, considering all this, we would have to expect to find in those claimed homicidal gas chambers amounts of Prussian Blue that are similar in order of magnitude to the traces we find in fumigation chambers.

Yet we find basically no cyanide in those walls. Look at these walls inside the ruins of that morgue. No blue stains, no cyanides. Just as we didn’t find any traces of panic-proof doors, of devices or means to introduce and swiftly distribute the poison gas, and of powerful ventilation systems upgraded to swiftly dispose of huge amounts of poison gas.

Or as Jewish activist David Cole once wrote:

“The evidence just isn’t there, and the evidence that does exist calls that [extermination] claim into question.”

If you want to learn even more about this topic, read the author’s book on The Chemistry of Auschwitz, available wherever books can be bought, except for Amazon, because they banned the book in July 2017. You can also download it as an eBook at no charge at Holocaust Handbooks
Thanks to Werd who posted most of this material on 7 August 2018. I do not believe in reinventing any wheel though I support everything he has said. Werds RODOH post

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:05 am

>> You seem to put a lot of faith into paid liars. Perhaps it was sunrise or sunset when the good honest doctor saw with his own eyes the colours of the Zb pellets. For a top secret mission< snip >

None of which has a thing to do with what I posted, or the misinformation I called you out on. You can't even put together a coherent reply to a straightforward post. But we all see you scrambling, backing up, switching topics and generally panicking.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:09 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:09 am
...
If VFX disagrees...
S/he'll always disagree because cognitive dissonance. The awareness of the facts and truth is just too uncomfortable to deal with.


And copy pasta simply tastes so much better. :lol:



Edit: Grammar
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:10 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:09 am
And copy pasta just tastes so much better. :lol:
I'm actually surprised that VFX didn't copy-paste everything Mattogno has written on Auschwitz in reply to my simple correction of his ill-informed nonsense on SK executions.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:10 am

I'm actually surprised that VFX didn't copy-paste everything Mattogno has written on Auschwitz in reply to my simple correction of his ill-informed nonsense on SK executions.
This is why you were booted out of RODOH due to your inability to stick to a single topic. This is a thread on chemistry not sk executions. You should just talk with Nessie you and he are in the same mindset.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:15 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:09 am
And copy pasta simply tastes so much better. :lol

Edit: Grammar
You fell off a wall and couldnt put yourself back together physically. Morally you have similar issues. You are somewhat of a joke according to Montgomery and I concur. In my time here I have not seen this egg put forward a single coherent argument of any kind on any topic. It needs scrambling again.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:17 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:10 am

I'm actually surprised that VFX didn't copy-paste everything Mattogno has written on Auschwitz in reply to my simple correction of his ill-informed nonsense on SK executions.
This is why you were booted out of RODOH due to your inability to stick to a single topic. This is a thread on chemistry not sk executions. You should just talk with Nessie you and he are in the same mindset.
1. I was never booted out of Rodoh, and you know it. Which is why my account remains active to this day. 2. You brought up SK executions above, when you wrote, stupidly, "Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed he managed to walk out when the camp was liberated." To set the record straight on this, I replied.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:21 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:17 am
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:10 am

I'm actually surprised that VFX didn't copy-paste everything Mattogno has written on Auschwitz in reply to my simple correction of his ill-informed nonsense on SK executions.
This is why you were booted out of RODOH due to your inability to stick to a single topic. This is a thread on chemistry not sk executions. You should just talk with Nessie you and he are in the same mindset.
1. I was never booted out of Rodoh, and you know it. 2. You brought up SK executions above, when you wrote, stupidly, "Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed he managed to walk out when the camp was liberated." To set the record straight on this, I replied.
A man who saw top secret executions and walked out is beyond belief. I am not interested in the history of this liar one way or another: his survival was mentioned in casual passing but as you cannot focus on a topic you stuck to this little piece of trash like glue as though it is of the slightest importance. If executions were going on he would not be privy and if he was he would be up in smoke like the rest of em. All he saw was legitimate fumigations. The rest is made up crap from this man. If you were not booted out of RODOH why not face up to them like the man you are not instead of squirming behind your book covers pretending to be the smart ass hero you are not.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:31 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:17 am
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:10 am

I'm actually surprised that VFX didn't copy-paste everything Mattogno has written on Auschwitz in reply to my simple correction of his ill-informed nonsense on SK executions.
This is why you were booted out of RODOH due to your inability to stick to a single topic. This is a thread on chemistry not sk executions. You should just talk with Nessie you and he are in the same mindset.
1. I was never booted out of Rodoh, and you know it. Which is why my account remains active to this day. 2. You brought up SK executions above, when you wrote, stupidly, "Of course while all the other sonderkommandos were executed he managed to walk out when the camp was liberated." To set the record straight on this, I replied.
S/he knows, SM. And has got nothing else to offer than the same lame old game. But seems to be more comfortable here now, after having dragged that boring nut monty to the home sweet home s/he's now fleeing.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:33 am

VFX, once again you are simply reminding us of what you refuse to look into and restating what you wish to believe instead of contending with the evidence, which is not suggesting btw that any SK members were “allowed” to walk out of Auschwitz.

I asked you to tell us where what I posted is in error, not to repeat your ignorant assertions and to restate your beliefs. Your personal obtuseness is evidence only of your personal obstuseness and nothing more.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:33 am
VFX, once again you are simply repeating what you refuse to look into and restating what you wish to believe instead of contending with the evidence, which is not suggesting btw that any SK members were “allowed” to walk out of Auschwitz.

I asked you to tell us where what I posted is in error, not to repeat your ignorant assertions and to restate your beliefs.
Everything you write is usually full of errors. I wish to discuss topics not go over your errors constantly: for the most part they are miniscule non important issues which are of interest to only you. I do not have beliefs only interpretation of evidence. The good or bad doctor information was only in response to the gassing times otherwise I am not the slightest bit interested in this liar at least at the moment. I think the SS man who gave a gassing time of 10 mins is more relevant. Once again you and eggs gave a comment without reading anything which shows the integrity you have in getting to some sort of reality in this forum. Arrogantly you both think you know the answers which I can assure you neither of you do in reality. YOU BOTH BLOW smoke up each others noses so to speak.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Sergey_Romanov » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:25 am

VFX: > There are many other reasons why such a scenario would not work not the least being the logistics of getting 2500 people into a door way at right angles while suffocating due to lack of oxygen.

You are trying to change the topic again. We are only talking about the evaporation rates. I guess you've given up on discussing chemistry...

(That many people would have suffocated is actually a relevant point - don't need much Zyklon B after that. Thanks.)

> Prof. Dr. G. Keith Still managed to get 4 people per square metre so those awful nazis were using some kind of unknown magic.



> Zyklon B releases its gas only slowly

Nope. 20% in 10 minuts at 15°С, much faster after the boiling point has been reached (it would have been reached in the chambers).

> not the least that HCN fumes are colourless

And? It was winter. They opened a hot sealed room. Need I continue?

> There is also a problem with the gas holes.

None.

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... oles.shtml

> The outer column was 3 meters high, and 70 cm wide and deep.

You are lying - he never said the outer column was so high, only the whole structure.

> During the trial, Kula testified, and while so doing, changed the dimensions of the column. Most importantly, its width had now shrunk to only 24 cm

Actually it did not, Kula's description as taken during the trial is garbled, obviously there was some transcription problem.

> Kula obviously was a liar.

Obviously not.

> Next, there is no documentary or physical evidence that these columns ever existed.

Of course there is.

> leaving indelible traces of the anchoring points

Proof that there are no such traces?

> meshwork made of wire merely three millimeters thick wouldn’t have done the trick

Says who?

> will condense on the gypsum pellets, making them stick together, for moist gypsum has the habit of getting gooey

Says who?

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:54 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
....
Everything you write is usually full of errors. ...
Rudolf admits he may be wrong, which you dodged

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p670102

"Of course, I may be wrong. There are many loose ends to this inquiry, some of which I have addressed throughout this study. Let me, therefore, close this report with a list of issues needing to be addressed by independent scientists whose minds are open enough to let the die fall wherever it falls."

Now, please explain why you think Rudolf is able to reach a definitive conclusion when he admits he may be wrong?

Then please explain to me how you think Rudolf can reach a definitive conclusion, when he uses testimony from those you claim are all liars?

Surely no scientist would use use evidence that is flawed, to determine for definite if something happened or not.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:59 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:57 pm
Well, that’s not too much to ask for...reconstruct a roof blown up over 70 years ago.
I do not see why Rudolf's suggestion of a reconstruction of the krema roof cannot be done. Scan it to measure all the pieces and then do a virtual reconstruction.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:05 am

VFX
I don't care if it says 10 mins but it did not say hours which is all that matters here. We as in RODOH have discounted the liewitnesses totally. If you are keen on alleged gassing claims you research I do not give a stuff as there were no gassing incidents except by accident. Please stick to the topic which is the chemistry of Auschwitz and try not to do a Nessie. Be a good boy and run along now.
Oh 'so that is who 'we' is. It was only Rodoh all along? Broadly, a loose disunited gathering of aging malcontents, racist nutters and arrogant newbie neo nazis set on denying the Holocaust. And the nascent NSDAP you waffle on about. Um is that also just the members of rodoh too?

Pathetic delusional unaware silliness.
Last edited by Darren Wilshak on Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:00 am
....
Next, there is no documentary or physical evidence that these columns ever existed.

....
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0430.shtml

There is an inventory for krema II which includes;

"(4) Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung / 4 wire mesh introduction devices
(4) Holzblenden / 4 wooden covers."
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:09 am

I wonder what 'we' (VFX) will try next to explain away those items on Krematorium II's inventory...
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:20 am

You gotta wait for Sergey to disappear first. Dunning hightailed it outta here and hid in other threads to avoid having to answer him. :-P
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:27 am

Nessie wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
There is an inventory for krema II which includes;

"(4) Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung / 4 wire mesh introduction devices
(4) Holzblenden / 4 wooden covers."
REALLY Nessie, this reminds me of Star Trek gadgets where something high tech had something with a light and went beep. Wire mesh and 4 planks could be used to make a go Kart, or indeed an outdoor dunnie. One fails to see how this little contraption could aid the dissemination of Zb into anything. If used in the manner described the granules would absorb water rapidly, swell as Calcium Sulphate tends to do hence its use as plaster of paris stopping any HCN from being released: this stuff has to be used while dry so the gases come out not to make a solution in water due to absorption. Common drying agents are anhydrous inorganic salts that acquire waters of hydration when exposed to moist air or a wet solution. For the most common drying agents such as sodium sulfate or magnesium sulfate, the crystals form larger clumps when they absorb water. Gypsum or calcium sulphate the base of Zb is one of these agents. Calcium sulfate is created by the controlled dehydration of gypsum, acting as a general-purpose desiccant geared mainly toward laboratory use. It is chemically stable, non-disintegrating, nontoxic, non-corrosive, and does not release its adsorbed water when exposed to higher ambient temperatures. The low cost of calcium sulfate must be weighed against its equally low absorptive capacity: it adsorbs only up to 10% of its weight in water vapor. The solubility of hydrogen cyanide is high so any water in the salt will absorb most of the cyanide making it unavailable as a gas. I am sure the German chemists were better at introducing lethal gas than this method considering they invented gas warfare and had the best gas scientists.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:34 am

.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:14 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:27 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:06 am
There is an inventory for krema II which includes;

"(4) Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung / 4 wire mesh introduction devices
(4) Holzblenden / 4 wooden covers."
REALLY Nessie, this reminds me of Star Trek gadgets where something high tech had something with a light and went beep. Wire mesh and 4 planks could be used to make a go Kart, or indeed an outdoor dunnie. One fails to see how this little contraption could aid the dissemination of Zb into anything. If used in the manner described the granules would absorb water rapidly, swell as Calcium Sulphate tends to do hence its use as plaster of paris stopping any HCN from being released: this stuff has to be used while dry so the gases come out not to make a solution in water due to absorption. Common drying agents are anhydrous inorganic salts that acquire waters of hydration when exposed to moist air or a wet solution. For the most common drying agents such as sodium sulfate or magnesium sulfate, the crystals form larger clumps when they absorb water. Gypsum or calcium sulphate the base of Zb is one of these agents. Calcium sulfate is created by the controlled dehydration of gypsum, acting as a general-purpose desiccant geared mainly toward laboratory use. It is chemically stable, non-disintegrating, nontoxic, non-corrosive, and does not release its adsorbed water when exposed to higher ambient temperatures. The low cost of calcium sulfate must be weighed against its equally low absorptive capacity: it adsorbs only up to 10% of its weight in water vapor. The solubility of hydrogen cyanide is high so any water in the salt will absorb most of the cyanide making it unavailable as a gas. I am sure the German chemists were better at introducing lethal gas than this method considering they invented gas warfare and had the best gas scientists.
It has shown you are wrong to claim there is no documentary evidence of wire mesh devices for krema II.

You ignore you error and run back to "science" where you repeatedly ignore Rudolf admits he may be wrong. He even shows what else needs to be done to confirm his results. So, again...

Please explain why you think Rudolf is able to reach a definitive conclusion when he admits he may be wrong?

Then please explain to me how you think Rudolf can reach a definitive conclusion, when he uses testimony from those you claim are all liars?

Surely no scientist would use use evidence that is flawed, to determine for definite if something happened or not.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:03 pm

Yes a terrible liar. His intention here is to keep the debate alive whilst pretending to know very little. Next thing, he will be saying all the gas chambers had these Zyklon introduction devices, even though there was no documentary evidence for them apparently. That is when he and his rodoh friends aka 'we', can get beyond dismissing all eyewitnesses (yawn, what's new there) and simply agree among themselves for five minutes...

lol that will be a cold day in hell.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:06 pm

Dude is like the muppet beaker. I've read some forum denier BS posts in my time but the bizarre contradictory crap that VFX is writing is something else.

Germar Rudolf's lowly loser lab tech assistant, you can see him in a white coat, can't you?
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Sergey_Romanov » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:01 pm

When deniers use the HCN evaporation graph for 15°C to make conclusions about what would happen at 27+°C, it's like if they said that there is only a small qualitative difference between *water* evaporation rate at 70°C and 100+°C.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:40 pm

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
Everything you write is usually full of errors.
You have yet to point these out. If what you say is true, it should be easy.
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
I wish to discuss topics not go over your errors constantly
OTOH I enjoy pointing out both your errors and your bad faith.
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
for the most part they are miniscule non important issues which are of interest to only you
The question of the fate of the SK members is not minuscule and not of interest only to me. In this subforum, we've had, in fact, a number of discussions of the same question. A couple years ago, another denier, Monstrous, tried passing off the same nonsense as you did. You both did so because you thought that the disinformation would help you prove a point. Making up crap to prove a point is not beneath you (or Monstrous).
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
I do not have beliefs only interpretation of evidence.
And yet when asked to discuss evidence you tell us that you refuse to discuss it and instead opine that it is "beyond belief" - based on your own personal incredulity, not on evidence - and that you are "not interested in the history of this liar." What truly isn't interesting is what you believe, as against what evidence shows to have been the case.
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
The good or bad doctor information was only in response to the gassing times otherwise I am not the slightest bit interested in this liar at least at the moment.
No wonder: you got caught in making up porkies.
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
I think the SS man who gave a gassing time of 10 mins is more relevant.
Again, you tell us what you believe - not what the evidence is (as Jeffk has requested) and not why you pick this one testimony.
VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 am
Arrogantly you both think you know the answers which I can assure you neither of you do in reality. YOU BOTH BLOW smoke up each others noses so to speak.
My reply was to you, and you still haven't dealt with it - you know and I know and everyone else reading this knows that you were wrong, you just are too scummy to admit it.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:44 pm

>> (That many people would have suffocated is actually a relevant point - don't need much Zyklon B after that. Thanks.)

Indeed, this was his own goal, and it rather undermines his starting position.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:47 pm

>> You ignore you error and run back . . .

This thread is classic denier bobbing and weaving, diversion and distraction, and wall of irrelevancy - all from a Rodoh flop who has the gall to complain that others change the topic!
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:10 pm

You would have thought given the Nazi troll's apparent 10 month involvement with SSF that he would be aware of the threads dealing with SK. Making up crap to suit a purpose must be the new Revisionist History we are hearing about.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:52 pm

By the way SM on an unrelated subject I did not know that you had been banned from rodoh, well according to Goebbels VFX you have...so you obviously haven't.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:08 pm

LOL of course I haven't been. I left for the reasons I've stated many times and of which VFX is well aware. He thinks repeating falsehoods somehow elevates the falsehoods - and him.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:21 pm

Goebbels VFX.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:23 pm

You lot are so busy flapping about and off topic (this was expected) that your obvious lack of scientific knowledge precludes most of you from tackling Germars work. The only one who tried was JeffK who gave or attempted to give a counter report which was so full of emotionalism and lack of real data it does not hold up. On this basis I conclude there was a limited gassing at Auschwitz to stop lice but in the main was not used as a weapon or agent of mass murder. You lot failed to convince anyone.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:34 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:01 pm
When deniers use the HCN evaporation graph for 15°C to make conclusions about what would happen at 27+°C, it's like if they said that there is only a small qualitative difference between *water* evaporation rate at 70°C and 100+°C.
If this event happened you have no hard data on temperatures in an area below ground at sub zero temperatures. All you have is speculation and yet act as if you "know" something which of course you do not.
There are no hard facts on any of the alleged gassing scenarios just lie witnesses and speculation and yet you continue as though this is all hard fact and you are the purveyors of deep knowledge. You are only a purveyor of myth and delusion for the most part. We know exactly what HCN does at all temperatures and in what substrate and how it performs under various conditions: it is this knowledge that puts the whole mass gassing claim in terminal doubt. Air pressure also has an effect on rates of evaporation which was a little too complex to go into here for people who barely graduated from High School, or elementary School.
As Сергеи Романов is so concerned with water boiling let me give him some data.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:54 pm

I am being ignored, having pointed out VFX was wrong to claim there is no documentary evidence of wire mesh devices for krema II.

VFX ignores the error and runs back to "science" where he repeatedly ignores that Rudolf admits he may be wrong. He even shows what else needs to be done to confirm his results. So, again, maybe this time I can get answer from VFX to ...

Please explain why you think Rudolf is able to reach a definitive conclusion when he admits he may be wrong?

Then please explain to me how you think Rudolf can reach a definitive conclusion, when he uses testimony from those you claim are all liars?

Surely no scientist would use use evidence that is flawed, to determine for definite if something happened or not.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.