The Chemistry of Auschwitz

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The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:38 pm

The video shows that it is not possible to have gassed people in Birkenau as depicted in the official narrative.
Germar Rudolf a chemist who was persecuted for the video and his writings has put forward excellent arguments as to why the alleged gassing of Jude and others was not possible.
For those interested the written works can be downloaded as pdf here download a free copy for study

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:42 am

1) Closed room
2) Toxic agent
3) People die

The end.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:00 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:42 am
1) Closed room
2) Toxic agent
3) People die

The end.
You are making assumptions on the toxicity of cyanide without any knowledge of chemistry; yes it shows. This childish assertion from you was expected. You will need to do much better than your pathetic assertions to rubbish a qualified chemist. I suggest you watch the video and read the text: in the mean time I strongly suggest you brush on the meagre knowledge of chemistry you may have to actually understand. As you and probably most here have elementary chemistry skills you may ask certain questions regarding the script which will be explained in very simple terms for you.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:35 am

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:00 am

You are making assumptions on the toxicity of cyanide without any knowledge of chemistry; yes it shows.
Cyanide is toxic. Is there some sort of assumption that it isn’t?

Maybe you and Rudolf need to brush up on basic biology, you get that humans need oxygen, keerect?

What happens when you lock a large number of people in a room with even a limited supply of air?

Why, they use up the supply of oxygen and die. Now, what happens when you add a toxin like cyanide?

Why, they die faster because cyanide prevents cells from utilizing oxygen. Now, humans excrete carbon dioxide when they exhale which is also dangerous.

You have multiple sources of the cyanide in the room, you have people panicking and piling up by the door....so, chaos.

This isn’t some dude strapped in a chair who gets exposed and then checked to make sure he is dead. You have a mass of dead people pulled apart and then burned.

BTW I noticed that you have nothing to say about the White Papers I posted in the other thread. It’s better that you ignored it, it doesn’t make you look good.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:42 am

Seriously JeffK your lack of knowledge is apalling. I suggest you actually study the material before you make more of a fool of yourself than what you are doing now. Prior to this I did not take you for a simpleton. If you wish to discuss the Balfour documents then do so but this is not the thread for it.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:28 am

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:42 am
Seriously JeffK your lack of knowledge is apalling.
Yet I know how humans breathe...

Prior to this I did not take you for a simpleton.
I don’t give a {!#%@} what you think of me.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:46 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:28 am
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:42 am
Seriously JeffK your lack of knowledge is apalling.
Yet I know how humans breathe...

Prior to this I did not take you for a simpleton.
I don’t give a {!#%@} what you think of me.
What this shows from your attitude is that you have no intention of looking at hard scientific facts which will not lend support to your cherished ideas. The work above totally debunks them with a high degree of credibility. However, the post is there for other people who may have a more balanced view and who really do wish to know more. This thread is to refute the work of Germar and not continue with the childish behaviour I have seen so far: this as Montgomery has said speaks volumes about most of the posters here. I suggest you study the material presented and if necessary refute it piece by piece with equivalent scientific knowledge.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:09 am

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:46 am

What this shows from your attitude is that you have no intention of looking at hard scientific facts which will not lend support to your cherished ideas.
Hard scientific facts like how humans breathe and cyanide is dangerous?
This thread is to refute the work of Germar and not continue with the childish behaviour I have seen so far: this as Montgomery has said speaks volumes about most of the posters here. I suggest you study the material presented and if necessary refute it piece by piece with equivalent scientific knowledge.
OK.

https://web.archive.org/web/20061205015 ... chemistry/

I have a copy of the report from 1945, well, not the original in Polish. Roberto translated it from a German translation of the original report in English:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29300

https://web.archive.org/web/20061208060 ... stry/blue/

https://web.archive.org/web/20061214182 ... e-science/
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:59 am

HCN has an extremely high vapor pressure even at very cold temperatures. Anyone who doubts this fact should obtain some diethyl ether, open a small amount, and observe it evaporating.
This is a good try Jeff which will give readers two viewpoints. I inadvertendly gave the Leuchter report above which does not do credit to Germars work. The Chemistry of Auschwitz
100 kPa (25 °C) vapour pressure HCN
71 kPa (25 °C) vapour pressure diethyl ether
The writer then continues to say that diethyl ether can be seen boiling at low temperatures. However, there is little mention of the substrate that the HCN was incorporated into which was gypsum or calcium sulphate. This means that Zb does not release the gas instntaneously but over an extended period of time, designed for use with the heated circulation machine. The gypsum as a carrier acts differently to the paper Erco carrier. A considerable amount of energy is transferred from the environment to allow evaporation resulting in cooling of the immediate area with reduced evaporation. Evaporation is reduced considerably with high humidity which would be found in a cellar full of breathing human beings. It is likely less than 45% of the HCN would have been released by the carrier within 30 mins. A minimum of 300ppm concentration is needed to cause lethality in half of the victims within a 10 minute period, with no air circulation some would die but not the majority of the people. According to the museum the carrier was introduced via a wire mesh and so would or could not have spread out to allow the necessary surface area for proper evaporation. Under these conditions of high humidity and lack of surface area the gassing as alleged cannot have taken place. However, it is suggested to compare and contrast the two reports. I side with the factual scientific work of Germar and not the emotional blabbering of the counter report presented above.
Conclusion, some people would have died by lethal gas over an extended period of time but not in the time frame depicted in the official narrative.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:59 am

Rudolf's argument is deeply flawed and it shows he is not that bright, when he fails to understand how flawed it is.

He accepts that it is possible to build a gas chamber, put people in it and gas them to death. He argues that the way witnesses describe the gassing process, it was not scientifically possible to have killed people that way. He then concludes therefore there cannot have been any gassing.

The flaw is that the witness evidence is a collection of descriptions, often with not much detail, leaving big gaps. So, we do not know precise details. Rudolf then attempts to fill in the gaps by guessing and estimating. In his conclusion he admits he may be wrong and that his work needs more detail.

Deniers ignore that admission and act as if Rudolf has proved beyond all doubt it was not possible to have gassed people as described. But that does not mean it was not possible at all, under any circumstance to have been able to construct a gas chamber at Birkenau that worked.

For example, Rudolf goes on about ventilation and how the chambers could not have been vented. All we know is that there was a ventilation system installed, we do not know exactly how it was worked. We do know that it is possible to vent a space and so we know, from documents and witnesses that the Nazis tackled the ventilation issue and they were happy it was working.

Deniers have no problem accepting the Nazis worked out how to use Zyklon B to delouse clothes and buildings at Auschwitz and vent off the gas without killing anyone. But we are then asked to believe they could not figure out how to secure a room, gas people and vent it.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:30 am

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:59 am


The flaw is that the witness evidence is a collection of descriptions, often with not much detail, leaving big gaps. So, we do not know precise details. Rudolf then attempts to fill in the gaps by guessing and estimating. In his conclusion he admits he may be wrong and that his work needs more detail.

Deniers ignore that admission and act as if Rudolf has proved beyond all doubt it was not possible to have gassed people as described. But that does not mean it was not possible at all, under any circumstance to have been able to construct a gas chamber at Birkenau that worked.

The witnesses are totally flawed and corrupt and once more you bring up that motley crew again: most under Soviet Government influence
If the Kreislauf system had been installed in those alleged chambers as it had been in the real fumigation chambers there would be little debate and yes HCN would have worked killing all in a very short time. In fact the large fumigation centres for whole trains were fumigated in this manner. A whole train load of people could have been taken to one of these centres without disembarkation and gassed with high efficiency without any need for the alleged gas chambers.
As it stands the alleged method used of throwing Zyklon B down a mesh tube would not work to the degree described in the narrative: a few people would die of course but not thousands in minutes as claimed. If Zb was used this would be in conjunction with the gas circulation system already developed to high efficiency at the time. The fact that it was not used puts the whole hypothesis in total doubt.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:07 pm

Documented work was carried out at the kremas to prepare them for gassings for example;

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ce-on.html

- List of materials of 24 February 1943 on “12 gas tight doors approx. 30/40” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 444]
- Delivery note of 24 February 1943 on “fittings of 12 gas tight doors” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 443]
- Work time sheet of 28 February 1943 on “fit gas tight windows” in crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 445]
- Work time sheet of 2 March 1943 on “concrete in gas chamber” in crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 446]
- Letter from Topf to central construction office Auschwitz of 2 March 1943 on “display devices for hydrogen cyanide residues” for crematorium 2 [Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz, p. 92]

The heating and ventilating of the cellars was also dealt with;

- Letter from Karl Bischoff to Topf of 6 March 1943 on “preheating cellar 1” and “undressing room” in crematorium 2 and 3 [Pressac, Technique, p. 433]
- Memo of 25 March 1943 on “hot air supply device for corpse cellar 1” in crematorium 2 [Pressac, Technique, p. 230]
- Material list of 13 April 1943 on “extension of the aeration and deaeration device (warm air supply) of the crematorium II” [Rudolf Report, 2nd edition]

It does not matter Rudolf does not think it would work. The Nazis were able to get it to work, as testified to by one of the engineers;

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/nu ... ium-design

"Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took place the liquidation of innocent human beings?
A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.
Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?
A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers; and he installed them."

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/nu ... ium-design

"A. ...I was responsible for the ventilation systems and for its air injection into the muffles. In specific instances, I led the installation operations personally. I personally led the installation work in Auschwitz crematoriums and gas chambers. For this purpose, I traveled to Auschwitz three times in 1943."

What matters is what can be evidenced and he has insufficient evidence to prove the Nazis were never able to build gas chambers in the kremas that could gas hundreds at a time. Instead, there is evidence from multiple witnesses that is what happened. Rudolf is wrong.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:31 pm

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:07 pm


The heating and ventilating of the cellars was also dealt with;

- Letter from Karl Bischoff to Topf of 6 March 1943 on “preheating cellar 1” and “undressing room” in crematorium 2 and 3 [Pressac, Technique, p. 433]
- Memo of 25 March 1943 on “hot air supply device for corpse cellar 1” in crematorium 2 [Pressac, Technique, p. 230]
- Material list of 13 April 1943 on “extension of the aeration and deaeration device (warm air supply) of the crematorium II” [Rudolf Report, 2nd edition]
Nessie, I think the heating devices malfunctioned at one point, even to the point of causing a fire (that’s based on a very vague recollection that I’d need to track down).
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Sergey_Romanov » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Rudolf's manipulations re: evaporation time are exposed here:


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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:58 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:55 pm
Rudolf's manipulations re: evaporation time are exposed here:

This is the scientific data regarding evaporation times with and without a proper circulation system which the Germans had at the time and used extensevily in all fumigation systems. It is inconceivable that the same system would not have been used in the event of homicidal gassing. Studying the graphs, the first one shows gm-3 which is the same as ppm. The lethal dose of HCN for humans is 300 ppm (300 part per million = 300 gram/cubic meter) which will kill half of the population in about 7 mins. (LD 50). A hydrogen cyanide concentration in the range of 100–200 ppm in air will kill a human within 10 to 60 minutes.
One can see in the graphs that the Kreislauf system is highly effective in getting the desired concentration up to a reasonable level over all parts of a fumigation chamber, a maximimum toxicity level reached in less than half an hour. Without this the rate due to diffusion and absorption by the materials especially water vapour is delayed considerably. It is claimed that those gassed died in about 10-20 minutes which would imply some Kreislauf system. Throwing cans of the stuff in would simply not work as claimed, though some would of course perish.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:11 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:59 am
[However, there is little mention of the substrate that the HCN was incorporated into which was gypsum or calcium sulphate.
“The argument, however, is moot because Gerhard Peters, who was the general director of Degesch, the company that sold Zyklon B has written a book on the topic, in which he gives the evaporation times of Zyklon B. 69 Ulrich Roessler translates:

The development of the gas from the Zyklon sets in with great vehemence immediately following the pouring out of it. The thinner the layer of the disseminated support material the faster will be the development of the gas. Depending on the species of the pests to be controlled, and on the characteristic of the rooms to be gassed, one may choose to reach the maximum of the gas concentration to arise very quickly or more slowly by the thickness of the disseminated layer. Usually, the material will be disseminated in a layer of 1/2 to 1cm thickness, then the greatest part [der gröste Teil] of the HCN will have developed already after half an hour at normal temperature. [i.e. 20 degree C] (= 68 F)
70
Roessler comments further:
Now, der gröste Teil der Blausäure is by no means only 50% - it means rather nearly all of the HCN. 71
Even at -10 C Peters states that the evaporation is essentially complete in 1 hour with an upper bound for complete evaporation of 2 hours. 72”

You missed that bit. Always happy to help.

https://web.archive.org/web/20061205015 ... chemistry/

This means that Zb does not release the gas instntaneously but over an extended period of time,
About an hour based upon Gerhard Peters. But in less than hour there would be enough gas in the room to kill the victims inside. This is independent of the factors I mentioned above. About 300 ppm is enough to kill in a half hour which is again independent of the factors I mentioned above.

Another study conducted in 1942:
“In the 1942 paper Irmscher continued the study of evaporation rate as a function of temperature. Irmscher specifies which solid supports were used for his studies (cardboard and Erco, a gypsum product) and provides a higher time resolution on the evaporation process. Irmscher studied evaporation at temperatures ranging from -18°C or -19°C up to 15°C. Excluding the lowest temperature results, Irmscher's results are in the same ballpark as those of Rasch and Peters for the most part. At -6°C, 0°C, and +15°C, Irmscher finds that within two hours 84.1%, 90.7%, 96.8% of the HCN, respectively, evaporates for the Erco support. The corresponding values for the cardboard support are 73.0%, 85.7%, 96.4% respectively. [34] The small discrepancies between these latter two papers most likely owe to differences in the support material and/or differences in humidity. Irmscher's results for -18°C show that evaporation slows substantially at this temperature.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20061214182 ... e-science/

Evaporation is reduced considerably with high humidity which would be found in a cellar full of breathing human beings. It is likely less than 45% of the HCN would have been released by the carrier within 30 mins. A minimum of 300ppm concentration is needed to cause lethality in half of the victims within a 10 minute period, with no air circulation some would die but not the majority of the people.
Hey, thanks for finally acknowledging that humans breathe. So, in addition to the cyanide we now have victims suffering from lack of oxygen and exposure to high amounts of carbon dioxide which is also fatal. You have trauma caused by people piling up on each other instinctively trying to get away from the mesh columns. BTW that amount of people will also heat the chamber enough so you wouldn’t need an independent heat source.

We also don’t know how much ZB the Germans used to gas the people inside so it’s likely they just used amounts for delousing clothing....which means they poured cans of the stuff into the mechanisms used to lower it into the chambers. You can read the links above for estimates.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:38 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:11 pm
BTW that amount of people will also heat the chamber enough so you wouldn’t need an independent heat source.

We also don’t know how much ZB the Germans used to gas the people inside so it’s likely they just used amounts for delousing clothing....which means they poured cans of the stuff into the mechanisms used to lower it into the chambers. You can read the links above for estimates.
The average temperatures in those cellars would be zero degrees C or colder. If the people stayed in there all day then an independent heat source would not be needed but the pellets were not scattered around but clumped together, stuck together by moisture which absorbed the HCN. HCN vapourizes at about 26 degrees C though the triple point is lower than that. However, there would not be enough toxicity to kill many people due to poor diffusion of the gases, stymied by the huge number of people in the chamber. You need to remember that your treasured eye witnesses claimed 10 mins and all were dead: this is simply fiction. Zb is HCN H+ CN- which has electrical attraction to the Ca+ and SO4- ions of the substrate which means there is a slow release of the deadly CN- ion. This was intended so that the fumigators were not killed by accident. The Kreislauf system opened the can inside the machine applying warm air to allow circulation of the deadly gas: this would work and was used in every other fumigation system except the alleged homicidal gas chambers. This is bizarre and makes nonsense of the homicidal gassing claim totally. Zyklon B is not Erco. The graph I produced above are from Degesch which represents the real data. The story told by this director is no doubt only to support the holocaust claim. Bruno Emil Tesch (14 August 1890 – 16 May 1946) was a German chemist and entrepreneur. Together with Gerhard Peters and Walter Heerdt, he invented the insecticide Zyklon B. He was the owner of Tesch & Stabenow (called Testa), a pest control company he co-founded in 1924 with Paul Stabenow in Hamburg, Germany.

Following the end of World War II, he was arrested by the British as a war criminal, tried, and executed.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:52 pm

Troll came back, this time with the pseudo scientific line?

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:05 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:38 pm

The average temperatures in those cellars would be zero degrees C or colder.
:shock:
:rotfl:

That is hysterical. What do you base that on, more of Rudolf’s guesses?

Even if true there were two other gas chambers (IV and V) plus Bunker I and II to gas people in. Or did you and Rudolf forget those existed?
If the people stayed in there all day then an independent heat source would not be needed
We are talking 1,000-2,000 stuck together in an air tight room, not 1 or 6 or 18. Humans generate their own heat.
but the pellets were not scattered around but clumped together, stuck together by moisture which absorbed the HCN. HCN vapourizes at about 26 degrees C though the triple point is lower than that. However, there would not be enough toxicity to kill many people due to poor diffusion of the gases, stymied by the huge number of people in the chamber.
YOU STILL HAVEN’T ACKNOWLEDGED that there were multiple processes at work inside those chambers, not just the cyanide released into the air.
You need to remember that your treasured eye witnesses
Why are they my treasured eyewitnesses?
claimed 10 mins and all were dead:
Here’s the fun part:
I want links to all witness testimony regarding the gassings at Auschwitz/Auschwitz-Birkenau. I mean all because I will be fact checking you on every single one. I want you to show me where they all claimed 10 minutes or less. Please do not comment again until you have this information because the only reply you will get from me is this comment. Don’t even ask me to prove this for you, this is your claim. I am deleting the rest of your comment because I don’t care what you have to say.

Well, except this, this is pure comedy gold.
story told by this director is no doubt only to support the holocaust claim.
I’m sure.

:rotfl:
Bruno Emil Tesch (14 August 1890 – 16 May 1946) was a German chemist and entrepreneur. Together with Gerhard Peters and Walter Heerdt, he invented the insecticide Zyklon B. He was the owner of Tesch & Stabenow (called Testa), a pest control company he co-founded in 1924 with Paul Stabenow in Hamburg, Germany.

Following the end of World War II, he was arrested by the British as a war criminal, tried, and executed.
Good, justice was served.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:08 pm

Everyone, please do not disturb VFX. He has work to do. I need all eyewitness testimony regarding gassings at Auschwitz/Auschwitz-Birkenau that gives a time for those in the chambers to die. VFX made a claim that they said the victims died in 10 minutes or less. He now needs to prove this so he needs time. If he strays from this please encourage him to get us that eyewitness testimony.

Thank you.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:16 pm

BTW, if idjit is talking about Gerhard Peters he wrote the manuals in the 1930’s, the other is from 1942.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:19 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:05 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:38 pm

The average temperatures in those cellars would be zero degrees C or colder.
:shock:
:rotfl:

That is hysterical. What do you base that on, more of Rudolf’s guesses?

....
Indeed, deniers ignore Rudolf is having to fill in the gaps and guesstimate because he does not have all the precise details. How can a definitive scientific conclusion be reached based on partial and, as deniers like to remind us, sometimes conflicting information?

The answer is, it cannot. That is why Rudolf admits in his conclusion, he may be wrong and more work needs to be done.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Sergey_Romanov » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:06 pm

VFX: > It is inconceivable that the same system would not have been used in the event of homicidal gassing

Why? Because you say so? No need for such a system. In any case you are trying to change the topic, since the best system is not even under the discussion.

> It is claimed that those gassed died in about 10-20 minutes which would imply some Kreislauf system.

No, it would not. Why do you say that?

> Throwing cans of the stuff in would simply not work as claimed,

Says who?

> The average temperatures in those cellars would be zero degrees C or colder.

Before the people came in (in the event they were not preheatead).


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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:23 pm

Since the link on the OP is actually to the Leuchter Report, not the Rudolf report, here is "The Chemistry of Auschwitz";

https://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/02-tcoa.pdf

Conclusions, chapter 9 page 364.

"Of course, I may be wrong. There are many loose ends to this inquiry, some of which I have addressed throughout this study. Let me, therefore, close this report with a list of issues needing to be addressed by independent scientists whose minds are open enough to let the die fall wherever it falls."

In chapter 10 he lists work that he thinks needs to be done; a reconstruction of the krema roof and a new set of samples in particular core samples and testing.
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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:55 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:06 pm
VFX: > It is inconceivable that the same system would not have been used in the event of homicidal gassing

Why? Because you say so? No need for such a system. In any case you are trying to change the topic, since the best system is not even under the discussion.

> It is claimed that those gassed died in about 10-20 minutes which would imply some Kreislauf system.

No, it would not. Why do you say that?

> Throwing cans of the stuff in would simply not work as claimed,

Says who?

> The average temperatures in those cellars would be zero degrees C or colder.

Before the people came in (in the event they were not preheatead).

There are many other reasons why such a scenario would not work not the least being the logistics of getting 2500 people into a door way at right angles while suffocating due to lack of oxygen.
Death of the people inside the gas chamber occurred after a few minutes as a result of internal suffocation caused by the prussic acid halting the exchange of oxygen between the blood and tissues.
Those standing near the shafts died almost instantly, those who shouted, the old, the sick and children also died a quicker death.
Auschwitz gas chambers
Your little fantasy would simply not work, nor would 2500 people be forced into a room being asphyxiated before any cyanide was released. The who scenario is so implausible as to be totally laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:57 pm

Well, that’s not too much to ask for...reconstruct a roof blown up over 70 years ago.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:55 pm


Your little fantasy would simply not work, nor would 2500 people be forced into a room being asphyxiated before any cyanide was released. The who scenario is so implausible as to be totally laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, you read something that wasn’t there. 2500 didn’t asphyxiate before the cyanide was released.

Now that link you provided didn’t help you any. I looked, it said “a few minutes” to 10-20 minutes and the chambers remaining sealed for 30.

But you didn’t do as instructed. Please provide links to the witnesses and their relevant testimony, I want to know what they said about times.

I look forward to your work. Everyone, please leave VFX be. He needs peace and quiet to find the information I requested.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:11 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm
Everyone, please leave VFX be.
Cheerfully.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:28 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:55 pm


Your little fantasy would simply not work, nor would 2500 people be forced into a room being asphyxiated before any cyanide was released. The who scenario is so implausible as to be totally laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, you read something that wasn’t there. 2500 didn’t asphyxiate before the cyanide was released.

Now that link you provided didn’t help you any. I looked, it said “a few minutes” to 10-20 minutes and the chambers remaining sealed for 30.

But you didn’t do as instructed. Please provide links to the witnesses and their relevant testimony, I want to know what they said about times.

I look forward to your work. Everyone, please leave VFX be. He needs peace and quiet to find the information I requested.
You really do lack something dont you JeffK. 2500 people stuffed into a space with no air inflow, breathing. Let me do the math for you using Leichekeller 1 which has a volume of 506m3. 2500 people have a volume of 178m3 which leaves 328 cubic metres of air. An average person inhales 8 litres of air per minute so 2500 people would inhale and exhale 20 000 litres of air in one minute which is 20m3per minute. This means that the total air will be exhausted in 16.4 minutes. Panic would set in long before that time had elapsed with streams of people running up the stairs.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Balsamo » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:47 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:28 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:55 pm


Your little fantasy would simply not work, nor would 2500 people be forced into a room being asphyxiated before any cyanide was released. The who scenario is so implausible as to be totally laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, you read something that wasn’t there. 2500 didn’t asphyxiate before the cyanide was released.

Now that link you provided didn’t help you any. I looked, it said “a few minutes” to 10-20 minutes and the chambers remaining sealed for 30.

But you didn’t do as instructed. Please provide links to the witnesses and their relevant testimony, I want to know what they said about times.

I look forward to your work. Everyone, please leave VFX be. He needs peace and quiet to find the information I requested.
You really do lack something dont you JeffK. 2500 people stuffed into a space with no air inflow, breathing. Let me do the math for you using Leichekeller 1 which has a volume of 506m3. 2500 people have a volume of 178m3 which leaves 328 cubic metres of air. An average person inhales 8 litres of air per minute so 2500 people would inhale and exhale 20 000 litres of air in one minute which is 20m3per minute. This means that the total air will be exhausted in 16.4 minutes. Panic would set in long before that time had elapsed with streams of people running up the stairs.
16.4 minutes once all the 2500 people are in the room, right?
So 32.8 for 1250, 65.16 for 625, etc...
You point being?

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:58 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:28 pm

You really do lack something dont you JeffK.
The ability to swallow denier BS? Yes, I lack that.

2500 people stuffed into a space with no air inflow, breathing.
Look at you, acknowledging that people breathe. That’s definitely progress.
Let me do the math for you using Leichekeller 1 which has a volume of 506m3. 2500 people have a volume of 178m3 which leaves 328 cubic metres of air. An average person inhales 8 litres of air per minute so 2500 people would inhale and exhale 20 000 litres of air in one minute which is 20m3per minute. This means that the total air will be exhausted in 16.4 minutes. Panic would set in long before that time had elapsed with streams of people running up the stairs.
Except that they were locked in, which means they weren’t running anywhere except into each other, the walls or piling up by the door. Then the Germans introduced ZB into this mass of humanity, meaning that you’ve proved my {!#%@} point all along in a scenario where people start to run out of air while simultaneously dealing with cyanide poisoning. Cyanide inhibits the ability of cells to utilize oxygen to make energy so the victims lose the ability to process whatever oxygen is left!!!!

Thanks, VFX. That was helpful. Now be a peach and do as I asked and get those witness statements for me.

Thanx in advance, Jeff.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:05 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:47 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:28 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:55 pm


Your little fantasy would simply not work, nor would 2500 people be forced into a room being asphyxiated before any cyanide was released. The who scenario is so implausible as to be totally laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, you read something that wasn’t there. 2500 didn’t asphyxiate before the cyanide was released.

Now that link you provided didn’t help you any. I looked, it said “a few minutes” to 10-20 minutes and the chambers remaining sealed for 30.

But you didn’t do as instructed. Please provide links to the witnesses and their relevant testimony, I want to know what they said about times.

I look forward to your work. Everyone, please leave VFX be. He needs peace and quiet to find the information I requested.
You really do lack something dont you JeffK. 2500 people stuffed into a space with no air inflow, breathing. Let me do the math for you using Leichekeller 1 which has a volume of 506m3. 2500 people have a volume of 178m3 which leaves 328 cubic metres of air. An average person inhales 8 litres of air per minute so 2500 people would inhale and exhale 20 000 litres of air in one minute which is 20m3per minute. This means that the total air will be exhausted in 16.4 minutes. Panic would set in long before that time had elapsed with streams of people running up the stairs.
16.4 minutes once all the 2500 people are in the room, right?
So 32.8 for 1250, 65.16 for 625, etc...
You point being?
Panic would set in long before the people were stuffed into a room like sardines: this would be a physical reaction to asphyxiation but likely to be preceded by emotional panic. Look at the layout and the military operation to get 2500 people lined up like soldiers waiting to die in a room where air was being depleted rapidly. It would be near impossible with wide open doors but the door a single one from the changing room to the alleged chamber is at right angles through a narrow corridor. It simply could not happen. Less than that amount would not allow the necessary temperature rise to kill even a few due to the boiling point of vaporization pont of HCN being 26, the temps being too low even for expression of the triple point where some gas is diffused into the atmosphere or lack of it. The whole scenario is incredibly ludicrous, outrageous and a total fabrication. The leichenkellers were just that, morgues for the dead often from typhus.
However, mass gassing would be possible with a better designed system using the Kreislauf system: this would have been used if there was any intention of mass murder by such means. If you do not understand the panic of asphyxiation could I suggest you put a platic bag over your head and tie it around the neck for a few mins; you might understand then but dont over do it. Asphysixiation can be an awful way to die so I have heard. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:12 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:58 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:28 pm

You really do lack something dont you JeffK.
The ability to swallow denier BS? Yes, I lack that.

2500 people stuffed into a space with no air inflow, breathing.
Look at you, acknowledging that people breathe. That’s definitely progress.
Let me do the math for you using Leichekeller 1 which has a volume of 506m3. 2500 people have a volume of 178m3 which leaves 328 cubic metres of air. An average person inhales 8 litres of air per minute so 2500 people would inhale and exhale 20 000 litres of air in one minute which is 20m3per minute. This means that the total air will be exhausted in 16.4 minutes. Panic would set in long before that time had elapsed with streams of people running up the stairs.
Except that they were locked in, which means they weren’t running anywhere except into each other, the walls or piling up by the door. Then the Germans introduced ZB into this mass of humanity, meaning that you’ve proved my {!#%@} point all along in a scenario where people start to run out of air while simultaneously dealing with cyanide poisoning. Cyanide inhibits the ability of cells to utilize oxygen to make energy so the victims lose the ability to process whatever oxygen is left!!!!

Thanks, VFX. That was helpful. Now be a peach and do as I asked and get those witness statements for me.

Thanx in advance, Jeff.
How long do you think it would take to get 2500 people to walk through a single door a corrdor another single door at right angles and line up like sardines while air is depleted. A trained army could not do this let alone civilians, women and children. 2500 people squashed into an area of 210m2 gives an area of 0.084m2 per person or 12 people per square metre. Prof. Dr. G. Keith Still managed to get 4 people per square metre so those awful nazis were using some kind of unknown magic. People at the end would be crushed to death long before the doors closed. How ludicrous.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:14 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:58 pm
oxygen is left!!!!

Thanks, VFX. That was helpful. Now be a peach and do as I asked and get those witness statements for me.

Thanx in advance, Jeff.
We have discounted all of the witnesses as liars and use the official narrative. A link to that narrative was given.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Reaktori » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:18 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:14 pm
We have discounted all of the witnesses as liars and use the official narrative. A link to that narrative was given.
AKA you lied and are now backed into a corner. Nice work cretin.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:23 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:05 pm

2500 people stuffed into a space with no air inflow, breathing. Let me do the math for you using Leichekeller 1 which has a volume of 506m3. 2500 people have a volume of 178m3 which leaves 328 cubic metres of air. An average person inhales 8 litres of air per minute so 2500 people would inhale and exhale 20 000 litres of air in one minute which is 20m3per minute. This means that the total air will be exhausted in 16.4 minutes. Panic would set in long before that time had elapsed with streams of people running up the stairs.


16.4 minutes once all the 2500 people are in the room, right?
So 32.8 for 1250, 65.16 for 625, etc...
You point being?


Look at the layout and the military operation to get 2500 people lined up like soldiers waiting to die in a room where air was being depleted rapidly.
That’s what the SS was there for, people filed into the room and saw exactly what they expected to see (a shower room) the door shut and then locked. The Germans lowered the gas into the room and people started to die...
BTW Balsamo is correct with lower numbers, probably anywhere from 1,000-2,000 in the room.
The leichenkellers were just that, morgues for the dead often from typhus.
With gas tight doors and windows???? Was that why the corpse slides were changed to stairs, the dead were supposed to walk down on their own? And the doorway changed from wide doors to a single door that could be locked?
However, mass gassing would be possible with a better designed system using the Kreislauf system: this would have been used if there was any intention of mass murder by such means.
We aren’t talking about the method you think is better or the method you want to use against Jews.
If you do not understand the panic of asphyxiation could I suggest you put a platic bag over your head and tie it around the neck for a few mins; you might understand then but dont over do it. Asphysixiation can be an awful way to die so I have heard. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Have you already tried that? It would explain a lot.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:23 pm

Reaktori wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:18 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:14 pm
We have discounted all of the witnesses as liars and use the official narrative. A link to that narrative was given.
AKA you lied and are now backed into a corner. Nice work cretin.
Indeed. In that and other ways, I think this thread is what is called an "own goal."
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:26 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:14 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:58 pm
oxygen is left!!!!

Thanks, VFX. That was helpful. Now be a peach and do as I asked and get those witness statements for me.

Thanx in advance, Jeff.
We have discounted all of the witnesses as liars and use the official narrative. A link to that narrative was given.
Actually that link screws you because it didn’t exactly say “10 minutes.”
Do you have multiple personalities or multiple voices in your head? Is that the “we” you are talking about?
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:49 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:26 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:14 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:58 pm
oxygen is left!!!!

Thanks, VFX. That was helpful. Now be a peach and do as I asked and get those witness statements for me.

Thanx in advance, Jeff.
We have discounted all of the witnesses as liars and use the official narrative. A link to that narrative was given.
Actually that link screws you because it didn’t exactly say “10 minutes.”
Do you have multiple personalities or multiple voices in your head? Is that the “we” you are talking about?
I don't care if it says 10 mins but it did not say hours which is all that matters here. We as in RODOH have discounted the liewitnesses totally. If you are keen on alleged gassing claims you research I do not give a stuff as there were no gassing incidents except by accident. Please stick to the topic which is the chemistry of Auschwitz and try not to do a Nessie. Be a good boy and run along now.

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Re: The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Post by Balsamo » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:51 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:05 pm
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:47 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:28 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:09 pm
VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:55 pm


Your little fantasy would simply not work, nor would 2500 people be forced into a room being asphyxiated before any cyanide was released. The who scenario is so implausible as to be totally laughable. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow, you read something that wasn’t there. 2500 didn’t asphyxiate before the cyanide was released.

Now that link you provided didn’t help you any. I looked, it said “a few minutes” to 10-20 minutes and the chambers remaining sealed for 30.

But you didn’t do as instructed. Please provide links to the witnesses and their relevant testimony, I want to know what they said about times.

I look forward to your work. Everyone, please leave VFX be. He needs peace and quiet to find the information I requested.
You really do lack something dont you JeffK. 2500 people stuffed into a space with no air inflow, breathing. Let me do the math for you using Leichekeller 1 which has a volume of 506m3. 2500 people have a volume of 178m3 which leaves 328 cubic metres of air. An average person inhales 8 litres of air per minute so 2500 people would inhale and exhale 20 000 litres of air in one minute which is 20m3per minute. This means that the total air will be exhausted in 16.4 minutes. Panic would set in long before that time had elapsed with streams of people running up the stairs.
16.4 minutes once all the 2500 people are in the room, right?
So 32.8 for 1250, 65.16 for 625, etc...
You point being?
Panic would set in long before the people were stuffed into a room like sardines: this would be a physical reaction to asphyxiation but likely to be preceded by emotional panic. Look at the layout and the military operation to get 2500 people lined up like soldiers waiting to die in a room where air was being depleted rapidly. It would be near impossible with wide open doors but the door a single one from the changing room to the alleged chamber is at right angles through a narrow corridor. It simply could not happen. Less than that amount would not allow the necessary temperature rise to kill even a few due to the boiling point of vaporization pont of HCN being 26, the temps being too low even for expression of the triple point where some gas is diffused into the atmosphere or lack of it. The whole scenario is incredibly ludicrous, outrageous and a total fabrication. The leichenkellers were just that, morgues for the dead often from typhus.
However, mass gassing would be possible with a better designed system using the Kreislauf system: this would have been used if there was any intention of mass murder by such means. If you do not understand the panic of asphyxiation could I suggest you put a platic bag over your head and tie it around the neck for a few mins; you might understand then but dont over do it. Asphysixiation can be an awful way to die so I have heard. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
There was of course no way to put 2500 people into this room at once.
In fact, people were introduced by group into the undressing room, then once undressed led to the shower room, one group after another.
SO basically the first group of let say 300 people (i would say less) would have enough air to breath for more than two hours before panicking, the second group then would probably reduced the level of oxygen, but not to a point of panic since 600 people would still have had enough oxygen to breath for over one hour, again not at panic level, you can keep on counting to 900, 1200, 1500, 1800...By the time all the victims are locked, the "panic point" due to the lack of oxygen is still not reached.

Most testimonies i know admit the use of force during the introduction of the last bunch of victims before the doors were closed.
After the door were closed, the zyclon B was introduced in less than 16.5 minutes anyway.

Now, testimonies about the time needed to kill the people inside varied greatly, and it is impossible to validate one over another, nor is it really important as the doors would be kept close for up to 45 minutes, and by then death was certain due to the combined effect of panic, lack of oxygen, and poison gas.

Oh and by the way, you kind of underestimate the nature of the victims: most were elderly, women and children who were exhausted or by their stay in the camp (sorry for you guys it is Auschwitz pool resort) or by days long transport in cattle wagons.