Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

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Goody67
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Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:02 pm

Deniers like Jew Berg constantly ask for proof with an autopsy to prove that the Jews were gassed during the Holocaust.

I made the following post to Jew Berg:
Jew Berg, you have already been told over the years why there is a lack of autopsies. You also deliberately ignore all of the other evidence. The Holocaust is one of the most researched events in history and there is overwhelming evidence that it happened.

The Nazis aimed to get rid of the corpses, not to determine the cause of death. The SS already knew that.

As for the one autopsy case I am aware of:

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... T001.shtml

It will not matter though because you will not accept such research.

There are reasons why the Nazis never performed autopsies:

There was no time for that in the theatre of war and the bodies had to be quickly disposed of to stop the threat of disease.

Those who died in the gas chambers were immediately buried or cremated and reduced to ash. There is even evidence that the ash was used as fertiliser in nearby fields.

There was no reason for the Nazis to perform an autopsy, they knew the various methods they were using to exterminate the Jews and others.

I am not going to waste my time discussing things that are not relevant to the topic of this thread. You ignore evidence and resort to personal attacks. Do not waste my time anymore.

I shall not be replying to anymore of your posts on this thread unless they are relevant to the thread topic.

Keep believing in your conspiracy theories, you are feeling no one but yourself.
https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 80#p133507

He replied:
Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:17 pm
The Nazis actually performed many thousands upon thousands of AUTOPSIES at Aushwitz-Birkenau and elsewhere--and why not? The Todesbuecher which are well known give the results of thousands of individual autopsies but mention no deaths from cyanide gas or diesel exhaust. The Leichenkeller were built at considerable expense to utilize natural cooling and allow for just such autopsies which were absolutely essential to control the typhus epidemic. Why would the fiendish Germans even bother trying to discover the cause of death of people they wanterd dead anyway? Because those Nazi-performed autopsies fail to support the hoax, they are hardly ever even mentioned by the hoaxers. Goody67 did not even know they existed.

The Struthof part of the hoax is interesting because it is at least an attempt to pin down the gassing story--but it is full of lots of huge holes. More later and I will show why it should, and has generally, be dismissed.

Does anyone, besides Goody67 himself, believe Goody67 has "proven" anything about gassings?

Goodfy67 wants and needs to believe I am all alone in not believing the holocaust HOAX. He should read the following: https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-a ... on-britain The "Good Guys" are definitely winning.

FPBerg
https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php? ... 80#p133514
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:34 pm

I’m not sure how you autopsy bone and ash.....

From what I remember the Soviets did autopsy some of the victims at Majdanek. I’d need to track it down, maybe Stat Mech or D-H have easier access. I don’t think it was very specific but I believe it mentioned Carbon Monoxide poisoning.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
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Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:51 pm

As far as I know, the autopsies Berg now mentions at Auschwitz are beside the point to his earlier "challenge" in that the victims autopsied generally were not gassed. E.g., Nyiszli’s role was autopsying victims of Mengele's experiments, twins/dwarves/sufferers of gigantism/etc (he may have been involved in individual cases of studies of gassing victims, I seem to recall something about this but not about specific autopsy reports - more to study "Jewish characteristics").

Berg seems to be pulling the old bait & switch here. Dealing with such BS is really a waste of time, as it involves exposing debating chicanery and doesn't focus on the history. Does he have a database of autopsies, then, of those who died or were executed at Auschwitz, with results?

I will check on this later, as I'm not an expert in things Auschwitz. Hans or Nick would know. At any rate, Berg attributes the autopsies performed at Auschwitz solely to the needs of the typhus epidemic, whilst the historians describe autopsying there also elaborate on autopsies mostly in the context of medical experiments on prisoners. IIRC Roma who suffered from noma were killed and their bodies autopsied; as noted twins and dwarves were autopsied, ditto victims of Clauberg's experiments, "Musulmänner" were given shots of phenol and their corpses autopsied to study starvation, the bodies of prisoners who perished in drug experiments were autopsied. those dying from various diseases including TB were later autopsied, and so on. I recall that some of the heads of the Roma victims were persevered. Also that Nyiszli wrote about "his corpses" being pulled from the experimental wards.

But Berg was going on about autopsies of gassing victims, no? Anyway, even the Natzeiler-Struthof collection wasn't to determine cause of death but to examine skeletal features for racial characteristics.

As a note, there are references of Soviet-Polish autopsies of some of those murdered at Majdanek; these note CO poisoning. The timing and other aspects of the report are beyond my meagre medical knowledge.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:05 pm

Well that has always been my understanding as well.

The Nazis did not need to perform autopsies on the Jews and other victims of the Holocaust when they already knew what was killing them!

As someone has already pointed out, how would they have performed an autopsy on bones and ash?

The only autopsies performed were those carried out on the human experimentation victims.

Jew Berg has now resorted to the false claim that Rudolf Höss was tortured to give his confession.

He can never keep to one topic and changes the goalposts a lot. Typical denial BS.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:09 pm

>> Jew Berg has now resorted to the false claim that Rudolf Höss was tortured to give his confession.

IFWF (it's forged or we're {!#%@}) should be complemented with HTWF (he was tortured or we're {!#%@}). Oldie but goodie.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:18 pm

Image

Is anyone aware of whether the photo is genuine? I highly doubt it.

Google only brings up results on denial websites.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:47 pm

Berg seems to be arguing here that the "Todesbuecher" have something to do with autopsies when in fact they're just a collection of death certificates.
Last edited by Balmoral95 on Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:59 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:18 pm
Image

Is anyone aware of whether the photo is genuine? I highly doubt it.

Google only brings up results on denial websites.
There is a bit on Axis History Forum:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=120704

I glanced through it, I didn’t find anyone doubting the authenticity of the picture. Nicholas Terry comments and doesn’t seem to doubt it (I didn’t see any doubts from him).
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by nickterry » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:24 pm

Torture by death stare from an upper-class twit.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:25 pm

LOL
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Gord » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:39 am

Oh, autopsy! I thought this was about autospies. Wasn't sure it that was some sort of automatic spy, or transforming car, or a bug you put into your kid's car so you know what he or she is up to all the time.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Oozy_Substance » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:37 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:02 pm
There is even evidence that the ash was used as fertiliser in nearby fields.
Deniers keep on asking me where all the ashes from Auschwitz. I tell them about ashes used as fertilizer at nearby fields, but I've never seen a concrete evidence (because also I never bothered to look for one). Can you provide it?

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:54 pm

Oozy, a previous discussion here: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... la#p448648; the page references are vol III, pp 171, 188 (where Piper discusses, as part of the winding down of gassings, the expansion of the Abbruchkommando whose tasks included "carrying human ashes from the pits to the Vistula"), and 194, citing Mandelbaum (below) and another prisoner Abraham Seinhardt (testimony at Höss's trial).

In the mss that was published as Death Dealer, Höss wrote that “The ashes were taken [from the Kremas] by trucks to the Vistula, where they immediately dissolved and drifted away.” p 45

Pelt, in The Case for Auschwitz, cites SK member Grabowski as follows (p 163):
Salmen Gradowski had buried a journal, written in Yiddish, in an aluminum canteen. The canteen was dug up in the presence of the members of the prosecutor's office. It contained an 81-leaf notebook and a letter, dated September 6, 1944. Significant parts of the journal, which he had begun before his transport to Auschwitz, had become unintelligible. However, the letter was preserved perfectly. It mentioned that the Germans had begun to obliterate the traces of the killings. "Everywhere, where there was much ash, they ordered to have it ground fine and to cart it away to the Vistula and to let it flow with the current." Gradowski implored the reader to search every inch of soil.
Also, Henryk Mandelbaum gave a statement about ash disposal (see Piper, Voices of Memory 9: Jews in Auschwitz, p 223) describing how two prisoners who had been "employed carrying ashes to the Vistula" in connection "with work in the Sonderkommando" tried to escape and were shot.

In People in Auschwitz, Langbein wrote this (p 23):
even their ‘‘ashes were used as fertilizer or scattered over the Vistula River,’’ as stated by Johann Gorges, an ss sergeant who worked in the crematoriums. Zofia Knapczyk recalls that the fields of the Babitz farm were fertilized with them. The ashes were also used to level the bottom of the fish ponds in a village called Harmense . . .
IIRC Wetzler and Vrba mention ashes used as fertilizer and the Harmense estate but not the disposal of ashes in rivers.

Again, I am sure others have better references than I do.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:51 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:02 pm
There is even evidence that the ash was used as fertiliser in nearby fields.
Deniers keep on asking me where all the ashes from Auschwitz. I tell them about ashes used as fertilizer at nearby fields, but I've never seen a concrete evidence (because also I never bothered to look for one). Can you provide it?
The ashes from the typhus victims were allegedly used for paving around the camp due to the high calcium content of the ash and the sogginess of the soil.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:33 am

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:51 am
The ashes from the typhus victims were allegedly used for paving around the camp due to the high calcium content of the ash and the sogginess of the soil.
What do you mean "allegedly"?

Statistical Mechanic posted about it and gave sources.

What are you disputing exactly?
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:34 am

The usual - facts.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:19 am

Goody67 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:33 am
Statistical Mechanic posted about it and gave sources.

What are you disputing exactly?
SM would not know the differenc between a source and sauce.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 am

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:19 am
SM would not know the differenc between a source and sauce.
Perhaps you can try again with a constructive post.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by VFX » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:38 am

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:02 pm
I made the following post to Jew Berg:
I hope you realise Depth Check is gonna stick you in Siberian Exile for such insults which you in your total lack of respect deserve. Montgomery on here got a total ban for expressing similar views. You are quite disgusting actually and not worthy to talk to.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:22 pm

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:38 am
I hope you realise Depth Check is gonna stick you in Siberian Exile for such insults which you in your total lack of respect deserve. Montgomery on here got a total ban for expressing similar views. You are quite disgusting actually and not worthy to talk to.
Try looking at what Jew Berg has called me on RODOH.

The guy is an idiot, he is incapable of debating properly and always resorts to personal insults. No one takes him seriously.

By the way, I don't care what Depth Check does to my account on RODOH. The RODOH forum is a place for neo-Nazis, anti-semites, deniers, conspiracy theorists and other loonies to meet.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Gord » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:37 pm

Montgomery was permabanned for posting defamatory attacks against Jewish people after having been warned at least twice.

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p666920
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 64#p665264
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 18#p664318
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:02 pm

All righty then, sauce or whatever, back to autopsies - and Auschwitz and more. I found a note on this, concerning over 500 pp of Auschwitz autopsies that are in Russian archives. There are no autopsies showing gassing, obviously, because the crematoria and pits were working at the time of the gassing. The bodies autopsied were among those found lying around on the ground in the camp, bodies neither incinerated nor gassed, when the Red Army entered it.

In addition to Majdanek (one more thought below on the Majdanek report), there are also Soviet reports on, presumably, gas van victims at Smolensk and Krasnodar, from autopsies of exhumed corpses. (Greg Dawson in Judgment before Nuremberg mentions these reports.) There could be a problem with the findings - I don't know - in that the corpses were 6 months to a year old.

The same issue would possibly apply at Majdanek, although our knowledge of the final gassings there is sketchy: at any rate at Majdanek it is interesting that the Polish-Soviet medical committee and the Commission communique identified CO as the death agent, not Zyklon B. The commission had reported finding "five hundred and thirty-five canisters containing the substance 'Cyklon B'" within the camp and concluded that the gas was used for murder, but the medical experts reported a small number of corpses with signs of CO poisoning. There are reasons to be skeptical about this report, but also reasons it could be valid. However, to say that postwar autopsies didn't ever report gassing would be mistaken.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:28 pm

Does anyone have any spare tissues? I think I'm going to start crying because Depth Check has banned me from the loony RODOH forum.

Image
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:45 pm

Ah, not permanent, just 48 hours. Congrats, I’ve been banned a few times.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:56 pm

It's because of the autospies, innit. :glare:
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:53 am

Goody67 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:28 pm
Does anyone have any spare tissues? I think I'm going to start crying because Depth Check has banned me from the loony RODOH forum.
You should learn to be less arrogant and confrontational especially to those who are your betters and know more than you. Try not calling Friedrich names or others I am sure that would help considerably.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:58 am

Goody67 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:22 pm
The RODOH forum is a place for neo-Nazis, anti-semites, deniers, conspiracy theorists and other loonies to meet.
I know of no neo nazis there though there is a small degree of anti Jude feeling at times due mainly to money issues. The so called "deniers" actually want the truth and in reality are revisionists. If you follow closesly you may notice that we all act as the devils advocate from time to time to support Nessie and others in an attempt to see the opposing point of view. For most the truth is paramount not some historians version of some fake reality. The conspiracy theories are like on here, often a joke though Monty takes it seriously. The loonies are often the "others" the HP side like Das Prussian, Airfixgeneral, Nessie and others who just come to troll which is fine down in the exile section: no one cares.

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:23 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:58 am
Goody67 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:22 pm
The RODOH forum is a place for neo-Nazis, anti-semites, deniers, conspiracy theorists and other loonies to meet.
I know of no neo nazis there though there is a small degree of anti Jude feeling at times due mainly to money issues. The so called "deniers" actually want the truth and in reality are revisionists. If you follow closesly you may notice that we all act as the devils advocate from time to time to support Nessie and others in an attempt to see the opposing point of view. For most the truth is paramount not some historians version of some fake reality. The conspiracy theories are like on here, often a joke though Monty takes it seriously. The loonies are often the "others" the HP side like Das Prussian, Airfixgeneral, Nessie and others who just come to troll which is fine down in the exile section: no one cares.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:45 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:23 am

And I have an invisible pink unicorn in my garage.
That is nice you have invisible friends to keep you company. It is hard sitting all day on that wall by yourself. An invisible pink Unicorn friend must be so satisfying.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:48 am

I'm really glad for all those newcomers. Time to replace nincompoops with some fresh and smarter blood.
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:07 am

Indeed then VBG if that was the case and they wanted the truth, they would read a lot more than they have done I guess and would carefully consider what people like the BrOI and Eric Hunt discovered too instead of which they appear to indulge themselves and each other in pretending that its all because they are engaged in some hard scientific quest...
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:08 am

Ooops 'VFX'
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:36 am

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:58 am
I know of no neo nazis there though there is a small degree of anti Jude feeling at times due mainly to money issues. The so called "deniers" actually want the truth and in reality are revisionists. If you follow closesly you may notice that we all act as the devils advocate from time to time to support Nessie and others in an attempt to see the opposing point of view. For most the truth is paramount not some historians version of some fake reality. The conspiracy theories are like on here, often a joke though Monty takes it seriously. The loonies are often the "others" the HP side like Das Prussian, Airfixgeneral, Nessie and others who just come to troll which is fine down in the exile section: no one cares.
1. Deniers do not want the truth, they are mostly uneducated and come up with conspiracy theories and flawed ideas and evidence as proof for their bizarre claims.

2. A lot of deniers do not read any scholarly works and regard such works as Soviet and Zionist propaganda.

3. The deniers are the conspiracy theorists, the RODOH is full of posts that are largely conspiracy theory orientated.

4. Deniers do not like to answer those that are more educated about the Holocaust and offer nothing but personal insults in return.

NSDAP, you aren't fooling anyone. I bet you have little German tanks in your bedroom and a Hitler poster next to your bed.
"We were the first country to attempt and to succeed in rolling back the frontiers of socialism, which is the first cousin to communism. Socialists don't like people to do things for themselves. Socialists like to get people dependent on the state! You never build a great society that way." - Margaret Thatcher

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Darren Wilshak
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:27 pm

Did he say that Berg was your better? How does he work that one out, how far can a giraffe insert its tongue into the backside of our 'apparent betters,' do you think?

He's at best, unpleasant.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Goody67
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Goody67 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:51 pm

VFX wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:53 am
You should learn to be less arrogant and confrontational especially to those who are your betters and know more than you. Try not calling Friedrich names or others I am sure that would help considerably.
Take your own advice - you personally insult people frequently.

Why would I give Jew Berg any time of the day? He believes that the Holocaust was a anti-German racist Jewish conspiracy. Whenever one confronts him with evidence that proves him wrong or posts something he does not like, he resorts to name calling. Are people supposed to take him seriously?
"We were the first country to attempt and to succeed in rolling back the frontiers of socialism, which is the first cousin to communism. Socialists don't like people to do things for themselves. Socialists like to get people dependent on the state! You never build a great society that way." - Margaret Thatcher

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Darren Wilshak
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:55 pm

But he's your better!

:lol:
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:03 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:08 am
Ooops 'VFX'
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Oozy_Substance
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Re: Holocaust deniers and the proof of autospies

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:49 am

VFX wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:51 am
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:02 pm
There is even evidence that the ash was used as fertiliser in nearby fields.
Deniers keep on asking me where all the ashes from Auschwitz. I tell them about ashes used as fertilizer at nearby fields, but I've never seen a concrete evidence (because also I never bothered to look for one). Can you provide it?
The ashes from the typhus victims were allegedly used for paving around the camp due to the high calcium content of the ash and the sogginess of the soil.
1 million typhus victims? Wow, that's a lot. The Nazis surely had no idea how to handle this disease.