Hunts Majdanek film.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:48 am

Yeah, I guess there is no arguing against this.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:52 am

Not with me. Not tonight. LOL.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:59 am

Lol yah, so are we planning to continue on the vans now?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:01 am

Yup back to the vans. More interesting anyway . . . :)
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:11 am

. :quantum:__________________________ :budo:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:20 am

scrmbldggs wrote:. :quantum:__________________________ :budo:
dammit scrimmy, my ribs might be broken because of that :lol:

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:20 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Yup back to the vans. More interesting anyway . . . :)

Anyway I haven't had any luck while searching out for Stetdiener's or Atrokhov's testimonies... None of the books I own have their testimony... well at least from the collection of books that haven't disappeared. I snooped around the Internet and no luck of any kind. I emailed Yad Vahsem to no avail and I'm still waiting for a reply. Did the same with USHMM and the Majdanek museum. No luck at all. I'm still searching around and playing with the settings of google scholar, but again as mentioned above its a very dry trail.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:42 am

While I haven't found anything on the gassings I did find this post though from someone responding to a denier. Which gives mention to one of our important witnesses.
The Committee established that for a long time, particularly during the past two years, the Germans, in addition to burning corpses in special furnaces, widely resorted to the practice of burning corpses on bonfires within the precincts of the camp as well as in the Krembecki-Woods.
On stacks of rails or on the chassis of automobiles, which served as grates, planks were placed. On the planks was placed a layer of corpses; then came another layer of planks and another layer of corpses, until from five hundred to one thousand corpses were piled up. An inflammable liquid was then poured over the entire pile and set alight. Each fire burnt for forty-eight hours.

The witnesses Hospodarek and Matyasek, inhabitants of the village of Dziesiata (near the Majdanek Camp) and the village of Krembec, stated that they had seen gigantic bonfires in the camp and in the Krembecki Woods on which the bodies of the people who had been shot and tortured to death by the Germans were burnt.

Within the precincts of the "Extermination Camp" and in the Krembecki Woods a large number of places was found where the burning of corpses had taken place. In one of the trenches within the camp the chassis of an automobile on which corpses had been burnt was discovered after excavation.

After the exposure of the atrocities perpetrated by the Germans in the Katyn Woods, the Hitlerites set to work with increased energy to disinter the corpses from the pits and trenches, and burn them. The Committee of Medical Experts opened twenty pits of this kind, eighteen within the precincts of the Majdanek Camp and two in the Krembecki Woods. In some of the pits a large number of corpses were found which the Germans had not managed to burn.

Thus, as the result of excavations made in pit No. 1 near the crematorium, forty two corpses were discovered. In pit No. 19 in the Krembecki Woods, three hundred and sixty-eight bodies of men, women and children were found.

In other pits a large number of completely decayed corpses and skeletons were found. In a number of pits a vast quanitity of bones was found.

To conceal the gigantic dimensions of their wholesale massacre of human beings, the Hitler fiends buried the ashes in pits and trenches, scattered them over a large part of the camp vegetable plots, and, mixing the ashes with dung, used them as manure for the fields.

Within the precincts of the "Extermination Camp" the Committee found over one thousand three hundred and fifty cubic metres of compost consisting of dung, the ashes of incinerated corpses and small human bones.

The Hitlerites resorted to the grinding up of small bones in a special "mill." A detailed description of this mill was given by the witness Stetdiener, a Diesel mechanic by trade, whom the Germans compelled to work this "mill."

Lieutenant General Hilmar Moser, of the German army, ex-Military Commandant of Lublin, stated the following:

"I have no reasons for hushing or covering up the heinous crimes committed by Hitler, and I regard it as my duty to tell the whole truth about the so-called "Extermination Camp" the Hitlerites established along the Cholm Road, near Lublin.

"In the winter of 1943-44 a large number of the prisoners-among whom, to my great indignation, were women and children-were exterminated there.

"The number of killed was round about one hundred thousand.

"Part of the unfortunate people were shot and part put to death by means of gas.

"Furthermore, I was told more than once that condemned people in the 'Extermination Camp' were compelled to perform extremely heavy work, far beyond their strength, and were goaded on by extremely cruel beatings.
http://www.golivewire.net/forums/peer-e ... ort-a.html

It's a really good read as well, sadly nothing regarding the testimony.

Here is also a polish website which makes mention of Stetdiener.

http://www.praguecoldwar.cz/tabor_smrti.htm
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:39 am

That's from a communique by the Polish-Soviet Commission (where it is stated that there were 6 gas chambers at Majdanek - but chambers I-IV were prioritized as "intended and utilized for the purpose of the wholesale and systematic extermination" - and 1.5 million victims). Re-reading the communique, I see this sentence: "The witnesses Hospodarek and Matyasek, inhabitants of the village of Dziesiata (near the Majdanek Camp) and the village of Krembec, stated that they had seen gigantic bonfires in the camp and in the Krembecki Woods on which the bodies of the people who had been shot and tortured to death by the Germans were burnt." It is relevant to this post on visibility and secrecy at Majdanek: "Here is a view of Majdanek, October 1943, from the village of Dziesiata, which lay just to the south of Field V . . . . Caption: Majdanek concentration camp, a view from the village 'Dziesiata'. In the background - smoke from a burning pyre of corpses. Date: October 1943 . . ." (The Polish language website seems to be from the same Polish-Soviet Commission communique.)
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:42 pm

Yeah, they seem both the same. Anyway I went through about 3 or 4 pages of Google searches and ran out of results, so it doesn't seem his testimony is online.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:06 pm

One last word on Hunt's video and BRoI's defense of Hunt: we've come a long way. The debate now is whether Rabbit was careless and ignorant in his area of purported expertise or intentionally dishonest about his evidence. I do not think that this result was what Hippity Hop intended.

Keep in mind that he still has a video out there creating a false impression about the camp and me.

We are no longer debating his claims because they have fallen to pieces.

Let Black Rabbit salvage some shred of self respect and go for the ignorant and careless choice.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:53 pm

How come Black Rabbit of Inlé still has his botched Majdanek video up on YouTube? Even he knows it's messed up.

In that his video, he made 4 arguments about the bathhouse/gas chamber complex at Majdanek:

1st – that the original German plan for barrack no. 42 clearly states that prisoners entered through the northern end of the bathhouses and exited to the south

This argument remains as illogical as ever - the March plan doesn't clearly state a thing about how barracks built months later were used - especially when one of them is configured differently to the plan. I’ve not gotten any reply to my comments explaining the silliness of BRoI's and Hunt's claims about the March plan. I will be back with a longer post that quotes from former Majdanek prisoners describing being put through through the bathhouses after entering from the south.

2nd – that the Polish-Soviet report stating that the undressing room was on northerly end of barrack no 42

I understand that BRoI has posted at Rodoh that his missing that the Polish-Soviet also describes an undressing room to the south of the showers was a failing on his part. Fair enough. So the Polish-Soviet Commission report turns out not to prove northern entry into the bathhouse. That's what I argued last August.

3rd – that position of the delousing baths at the southern end of the shower room proves prisoners entered from the north, showered first, then bathed in the delousing solution

This is illogical, as prisoners could simply have bathed or showered, or showered and bathed, in either order in that room. Still, I have already produced testimonies of prisoners who bathed first and then showered, a sequence BRoI said was ridiculous. Worse for BRoI, I will be back with prisoners’ recollections saying that they showered, then bathed – but entered the shower room, and thus the bathhouse, from the south.

4th – that a photo of prisoners going into barrack 41 or 42 in summer 1942 shows them entering at the northerly end

Two things about this: “Miedzyrzec” and “it was the fault of the book.”

It may be that BRoI simply screwed up with the Miedzyrzec photo, but he’s responsible for the content of his video, and the shitty little thing – its 4 points repudiated – remains posted at YouTube, continuing to create a false impression among the unsuspecting. Which is why I’ve said that BRoI and Hunt, who spin out fictions to trick viewers, are scurrilous liars.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Xcalibur » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:49 am

>"How come Black Rabbit of Inlé still has his botched Majdanek video up on YouTube? Even he knows it's messed up."

You ever got even one of these chimp {!#%@} to ever admit they might, just might be wrong about anything?

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:08 pm

I was pointed to a post over at Rodoh. Either the pompous buffoon can't read or he feels dissembling will salve his wounded pride: get a load of this. Was Dunin lying he asks, grasping for something, anything to hang onto. Well, did Dunin make a shitty little video that remains posted? If Dunin did so, I'd say he's lying. If he made a mistake in identifying a photo, I'd say he, er, made a mistake. The problem here isn't really very hard to work out.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:29 pm

Also I would like to mention one thing on the CO canisters and the CO2 canisters.

If one is to look at the Carbon Dioxide canisters, they will notice about 4 lines engraved into it.

Image

While the Carbon monoxide canisters have two lines engraved.

Image

I think this is a good show that these are not the same canisters. This would mean that the Soviet's never set the canisters back in the operation room.
Last edited by Denying-History on Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:04 pm

In support of your point, the Polish-Soviet Commission report, quoted by Graf & Mattogno (p 123) described what investigators found in a barrack to the south of the gas chambers:
2. Chemical Arsenal
Barrack No. 52 served as storage room for various chemicals. Aside from nu- merous chemicals generally used for disinfestation and disinfection, the following were discovered there:
a)  Five bottles, dark red in color. The following is stamped on them in German: ‘Carbon monoxide. Bottled at 150 atmospheres 8.7. 42, Schönerwein and Brenen. Berlin B. 9. Tested at 225 atmospheres. Empty weight 75.8 kg. Volume 40.6 liters.’
On examination of the bottles it was found that the gas contained therein had
been used up, but that a small remnant still remained.
b)  A box of anti-gas material specifically labeled as protection from carbon monoxide. The box has a diameter of 12.8 cm, its height is 25.4 cm. The box is cylindrical in shape and is coated with dark protective paint.
The box of anti-gas material is inscribed in German:
‘CO filter number 86. Protects against carbon monoxide. Also against all chemical warfare agents and against acidic gases, fumes and dust. ( 1-38)25. Use in accordance with §8 of Air Raid Regulations. Company AUER A.G. of Berlin.’
Aside from the inscription, a label is also glued onto the box of anti-gas mate- rial, with the following text in German:
‘AUER, CO filter No. 09903. Not for use later than June 1944. Can be used for two years from the time of first use. No more than 40 hours total. First use: Date: Use: Hours:
from: to:
Note: After each use, close box tightly, top and bottom. Store in a cool dry place.’
c)  135 metal cans containing the substance ‘Zyklon’. Each can weighs 1,400 grams. More than 400 cans containing the substance ‘Zyklon’. Weight per can, 3,750 grams.
The report also stated (p 128) that
The bottles are numbered: 10, 17, 44, 52, 60.
An examination of the bottles determined that the gas they had contained was largely used up. To permit a chemical analysis of the remaining gas, the bottles were exposed to sunlight and warmed. The insignificant pressure thus achieved in the bottles sufficed to permit the drawing of gas samples.
The samples taken from all five bottles were analyzed to determine the pres- ence of carbon monoxide by means of reactions with iodine pentoxide as well as indicator paper with palladium chloride. In total, ten reactions were performed with iodine pentoxide and ten with palladium chloride.
All tests for these reactions clearly showed the presence of carbon monoxide.
About the small observation room just off the gas chambers, the report said (p 121) that it was the "EQUIPMENT ROOM / chamber for storage of gas bottles, No. 14 / adjoins Gas Chambers I and III."
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:30 pm

Yep, but the point is more for those who argue the Soviet's placed the CO bottles back in the operation room.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:45 pm

What argument do they make? The Polish-Soviet Commission recorded that the CO bottles were found in barrack 52, not in the observation room . . . SS orderly Reinartz testified that during early fall 1943 there were bottles in the SS man's cabin (he doesn't specify the gas they contained AFAIK); Kranz has a photo of the five bottles of CO in his appendix, presumably this photo being from barrack 52.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:52 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:What argument do they make? The Polish-Soviet Commission recorded that the CO bottles were found in barrack 52, not in the observation room . . . SS orderly Reinartz testified that during early fall 1943 there were bottles in the SS man's cabin (he doesn't specify the gas they contained AFAIK); Kranz has a photo of the five bottles of CO in his appendix, presumably this photo being from barrack 52.
As said earlier in the thread when I mention that Garf and Mattogno claim the Soviet's placed two of the five canisters in the operation room. Page 143
Second, two of the five steel bottles which the Soviets found in Barrack 52 were later set up in Cell 14. According to the Polish-Soviet Commission’s report, these five bottles had contained CO, but the two bottles presently stored in the cell are engraved with the label “CO2,” i.e., carbon dioxide. It is common knowledge that carbon dioxide is not poisonous. These plain and simple facts permit two conclusions: if two of the five CO bottles actually contained CO2, then for one thing it is logical to suspect that the Polish-Soviet Commission lied on this point – as it did in a number of other matters as well. (Note 393 - This suspicion is all the more well-founded in that the other three bottles are no longer to be found on the camp grounds. We do not know where they may have got to.) Second, even if the other bottles had actually contained CO, there is still no proof that the facilities in question were really used for CO and not for CO2. This alone suffices to cast grave doubts on the alleged criminal purpose of these installations.
The point is very simple. The engravings are different for the 5 CO canisters then what's on the CO2 canisters. The engravings on the CO2 canisters take up more lines then the photographed CO canisters, therefore the CO2 canisters which can be found inside the room are not part of the original 5. The Soviet's may have placed two of the 5 canisters inside that room, but they were not the two that are labeled CO2.

Just for a show of what I mean.

Liberation photographs show 2 engraved rows.

Image

While modern photographs of the CO2 canisters show 4 engraved rows.

Image

The canisters found inside barracks 42 are not the ones viewable today or during the period of time since the opening of the museum. I have seen Kranz photograph though.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:56 pm

Ah ok, Graf & Mattogno's point makes no sense. I'd forgotten it. Indeed, the bottles in the cabin are not, according to the Commission report, and as shown by the photos you posted, the ones found in barrack 52. And CO is not CO2. The post-war investigators found CO, not CO2. The photos match to the 1944 report. I don't know who placed the CO2 bottles in the cabin, or when or why. Do you?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Denying-History wrote:The canisters found inside barracks 42 are not the ones viewable today...
42?



excerpt wrote:later set up in Cell 14...the two bottles presently stored in the cell are engraved with the label “CO2,” i.e., carbon dioxide. It is common knowledge that carbon dioxide is not poisonous.
(my bold)
What a relief to know that! :-P
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:17 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:The canisters found inside barracks 42 are not the ones viewable today...
42?
Duh! Thanks for catching that. I read right past it. Correct me if I am wrong: the ones there today are in the SS man's cabin north of barrack 41? so-called room 14?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:23 pm

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:12 pm

The only people with the power to add these canisters would be museum staff or the Soviet's and or prisoners on location during the period of liberation. I would highly suspect that were added by museum staff during its early years.

The earliest known photo that I have of the canisters in that room is here. It seems to have taken before the 70's.

Image
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:15 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:The canisters found inside barracks 42 are not the ones viewable today...
42?
Typing off my phone. I make the worst typing mistakes with it.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:19 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:The canisters found inside barracks 42 are not the ones viewable today...
42?
Duh! Thanks for catching that. I read right past it. Correct me if I am wrong: the ones there today are in the SS man's cabin north of barrack 41? so-called room 14?
They are in the observation room, so yes they are in the cabin.

Image
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:28 pm

Denying-History wrote:While I haven't found anything on the gassings I did find this post though from someone responding to a denier. Which gives mention to one of our important witnesses.
The Committee established that for a long time, particularly during the past two years, the Germans, in addition to burning corpses in special furnaces, widely resorted to the practice of burning corpses on bonfires within the precincts of the camp as well as in the Krembecki-Woods.
On stacks of rails or on the chassis of automobiles, which served as grates, planks were placed. On the planks was placed a layer of corpses; then came another layer of planks and another layer of corpses, until from five hundred to one thousand corpses were piled up. An inflammable liquid was then poured over the entire pile and set alight. Each fire burnt for forty-eight hours.

The witnesses Hospodarek and Matyasek, inhabitants of the village of Dziesiata (near the Majdanek Camp) and the village of Krembec, stated that they had seen gigantic bonfires in the camp and in the Krembecki Woods on which the bodies of the people who had been shot and tortured to death by the Germans were burnt.

Within the precincts of the "Extermination Camp" and in the Krembecki Woods a large number of places was found where the burning of corpses had taken place. In one of the trenches within the camp the chassis of an automobile on which corpses had been burnt was discovered after excavation.

After the exposure of the atrocities perpetrated by the Germans in the Katyn Woods, the Hitlerites set to work with increased energy to disinter the corpses from the pits and trenches, and burn them. The Committee of Medical Experts opened twenty pits of this kind, eighteen within the precincts of the Majdanek Camp and two in the Krembecki Woods. In some of the pits a large number of corpses were found which the Germans had not managed to burn.

Thus, as the result of excavations made in pit No. 1 near the crematorium, forty two corpses were discovered. In pit No. 19 in the Krembecki Woods, three hundred and sixty-eight bodies of men, women and children were found.

In other pits a large number of completely decayed corpses and skeletons were found. In a number of pits a vast quanitity of bones was found.

To conceal the gigantic dimensions of their wholesale massacre of human beings, the Hitler fiends buried the ashes in pits and trenches, scattered them over a large part of the camp vegetable plots, and, mixing the ashes with dung, used them as manure for the fields.

Within the precincts of the "Extermination Camp" the Committee found over one thousand three hundred and fifty cubic metres of compost consisting of dung, the ashes of incinerated corpses and small human bones.

The Hitlerites resorted to the grinding up of small bones in a special "mill." A detailed description of this mill was given by the witness Stetdiener, a Diesel mechanic by trade, whom the Germans compelled to work this "mill."

Lieutenant General Hilmar Moser, of the German army, ex-Military Commandant of Lublin, stated the following:

"I have no reasons for hushing or covering up the heinous crimes committed by Hitler, and I regard it as my duty to tell the whole truth about the so-called "Extermination Camp" the Hitlerites established along the Cholm Road, near Lublin.

"In the winter of 1943-44 a large number of the prisoners-among whom, to my great indignation, were women and children-were exterminated there.

"The number of killed was round about one hundred thousand.

"Part of the unfortunate people were shot and part put to death by means of gas.

"Furthermore, I was told more than once that condemned people in the 'Extermination Camp' were compelled to perform extremely heavy work, far beyond their strength, and were goaded on by extremely cruel beatings.
http://www.golivewire.net/forums/peer-e ... ort-a.html

It's a really good read as well, sadly nothing regarding the testimony.

Here is also a polish website which makes mention of Stetdiener.

http://www.praguecoldwar.cz/tabor_smrti.htm
"After the exposure of the atrocities perpetrated by the Germans in the Katyn Woods"

At least you check your sources for accuracy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:34 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Denying-History wrote:While I haven't found anything on the gassings I did find this post though from someone responding to a denier. Which gives mention to one of our important witnesses.
The Committee established that for a long time, particularly during the past two years, the Germans, in addition to burning corpses in special furnaces, widely resorted to the practice of burning corpses on bonfires within the precincts of the camp as well as in the Krembecki-Woods.
On stacks of rails or on the chassis of automobiles, which served as grates, planks were placed. On the planks was placed a layer of corpses; then came another layer of planks and another layer of corpses, until from five hundred to one thousand corpses were piled up. An inflammable liquid was then poured over the entire pile and set alight. Each fire burnt for forty-eight hours.

The witnesses Hospodarek and Matyasek, inhabitants of the village of Dziesiata (near the Majdanek Camp) and the village of Krembec, stated that they had seen gigantic bonfires in the camp and in the Krembecki Woods on which the bodies of the people who had been shot and tortured to death by the Germans were burnt.

Within the precincts of the "Extermination Camp" and in the Krembecki Woods a large number of places was found where the burning of corpses had taken place. In one of the trenches within the camp the chassis of an automobile on which corpses had been burnt was discovered after excavation.

After the exposure of the atrocities perpetrated by the Germans in the Katyn Woods, the Hitlerites set to work with increased energy to disinter the corpses from the pits and trenches, and burn them. The Committee of Medical Experts opened twenty pits of this kind, eighteen within the precincts of the Majdanek Camp and two in the Krembecki Woods. In some of the pits a large number of corpses were found which the Germans had not managed to burn.

Thus, as the result of excavations made in pit No. 1 near the crematorium, forty two corpses were discovered. In pit No. 19 in the Krembecki Woods, three hundred and sixty-eight bodies of men, women and children were found.

In other pits a large number of completely decayed corpses and skeletons were found. In a number of pits a vast quanitity of bones was found.

To conceal the gigantic dimensions of their wholesale massacre of human beings, the Hitler fiends buried the ashes in pits and trenches, scattered them over a large part of the camp vegetable plots, and, mixing the ashes with dung, used them as manure for the fields.

Within the precincts of the "Extermination Camp" the Committee found over one thousand three hundred and fifty cubic metres of compost consisting of dung, the ashes of incinerated corpses and small human bones.

The Hitlerites resorted to the grinding up of small bones in a special "mill." A detailed description of this mill was given by the witness Stetdiener, a Diesel mechanic by trade, whom the Germans compelled to work this "mill."

Lieutenant General Hilmar Moser, of the German army, ex-Military Commandant of Lublin, stated the following:

"I have no reasons for hushing or covering up the heinous crimes committed by Hitler, and I regard it as my duty to tell the whole truth about the so-called "Extermination Camp" the Hitlerites established along the Cholm Road, near Lublin.

"In the winter of 1943-44 a large number of the prisoners-among whom, to my great indignation, were women and children-were exterminated there.

"The number of killed was round about one hundred thousand.

"Part of the unfortunate people were shot and part put to death by means of gas.

"Furthermore, I was told more than once that condemned people in the 'Extermination Camp' were compelled to perform extremely heavy work, far beyond their strength, and were goaded on by extremely cruel beatings.
http://www.golivewire.net/forums/peer-e ... ort-a.html

It's a really good read as well, sadly nothing regarding the testimony.

Here is also a polish website which makes mention of Stetdiener.

http://www.praguecoldwar.cz/tabor_smrti.htm
"After the exposure of the atrocities perpetrated by the Germans in the Katyn Woods"

At least you check your sources for accuracy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This article is about the 1940 massacre of Polish officers. For the 1943 massacre of Belarusian civilians, see Khatyn massacre.
Khatyn was a village of 26 houses and 156 inhabitants in Belarus, in Lahoysk Raion, Minsk Region, 50 km away from Minsk. On March 22, 1943, the entire population of the village was massacred by the 118th Schutzmannschaft Nazi battalion.
Way to read the link Mary :roll:

http://www.golivewire.net/forums/peer-e ... -a.html#15

And on the very next page, the 'revisionist' says.
Sorry that you misspelled Khatyn. Regardless, partisan killings is irrelevant to the discussion of 6 billion Jews being killed in a gas chamber without a shred of evidence except hysterical Jews and lying/tortured Nazis, sorry.
Also you want to follow up on his partizans argument then realized everyone that took part in these murders knows otherwise.

[ytube][/ytube]

Also regardless, the use of the Soviet's trying to push Katyn onto the Germans at Nuremberg is irrelevant... The Soviet's failed at it greatly. They also were not even able to push the atrocity on the Germans in a Russian court as well if I remember correctly.

Also the polish one is the same report... I believe, and it makes not a single mention of Katyn.

Image
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:52 pm

It appears that David was too busy proving that the Holocaust happened, using an example of an imposter, to clean up the mess he has made in this thread or to help out poor Black Rabbit of Inlé with the botched video which David so approved of.

There is a lot about Majdanek which David actually owes us a response on.

Good times.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:59 pm

By the way, the error-filled Majdanek video which Black Rabbit of Inlé posted at YouTube still remains up. Sure, anyone can make an honest mistake about a photo or other piece of evidence. But Black Rabbit of Inlé is not an honest broker - and instead of pulling his discredited video down, he keeps it at You Tube trying to dupe the unsuspecting - telling himself that a lame note he's posted about his Miedzyrzec gaffe covers him on everything that's wrong with his video.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I will be back with a longer post that quotes from former Majdanek prisoners describing being put through through the bathhouses after entering from the south.
Recall that BRoI and Hunt both claim that it is proven that prisoners entered the bathhouses at Majdanek only directly from the north – the gas chamber/bunker end – that the SS moved prisoners southward through the bathhouses away from the gas chambers – and that the museum has falsified the site to make it appear that prisoners moved south to north, toward the gas chambers

In the first place, the "direction of flow" issue is silly, if you’re familiar with the camp, testimonies about arrival and bathing in the camp, and the construction/layout of the facilities. What evidence actually shows is that the bathhouses – barracks nos. 41 and 42 – were used differently at different times, depending on the makeup and size of prisoner groups brought to them, on whether the prisoners were arriving to the camp or brought from the fields, whether the gas chambers were being used, and other factors. Some prisoners, for example, recall being bathed in Lysol, others in carbolic acid. Sometimes arriving prisoners were selected in the bathhouses and sent either to the shower room, if selected for labor, or northward to the gas chambers. Other times prisoners were detained to the west of the bathhouses in the “Rosengarten,” selected there, and taken from there to the gas chambers. It’s possible prisoners entered the bathhouse from the north for bathing, but I’ve not found any testimony saying this (I know of one testimony, from a prisoner-functionary named Georg Gröner, that explains how the prisoners were selected in the Rosengarten for the gas chambers, made to go the “antechamber” of the men’s bathhouse, possibly at the north, and from there were “herded” to the gas chamber – this is not close to the path revisionists insist on – see below; three other testimonies that describe prisoners waiting in the Rosengarten are given by Danuta Brzosko-Medryk, Symcha Turkeltaub, and Jerzy Kwiatkowski).

There’s no inherent reason prisoners couldn’t have used the bathhouses entering from the north, even though the evidence I know of is either indeterminate about direction of entry or puts entry for bathing from the south. (A longer discussion of prisoner arrival and processing is found here.)

In the second place, Hunt and BRoI have simply left out two key elements of the entry and processing of arriving prisoners – the Effektenkammer, south of the bathhouses, and, as we saw above, the Rosengarten, to their west.

The type of deception Hunt and BRoI try purveying about “northern entry” was cut through as long ago as the 1980s when Józef Marszałek in his book on Majdanek wrote, “the newly arrived were subjected to the ritual of reception (Aufnahme). In [sic] consisted in a hasty bath and in issuing identifications of the status of a given prisoner (Häftling). The mode of reception of the various groups in the years 1941 to 1944 differed in some details and in the order of formalities, but the principles remained the same.”

Here is the revisionist entry route defended by BRoI in his video (the route labeled “Truth” is what deniers have recently fixed on):

Image

Note that the visual has a “Lies” version that bears no relation to what historians have concluded, to what I’ve shown throughout this thread, or to what the testimonies I will present in this post say. Let’s look, for example, at how Marszałek described the entry process in his history of Majdanek: “After passing through the camp gate, the new arrivals were directed to barrack 44, where they had to surrender all they had with them and on them. Naked – whatever the season of the year or weather or conditions – they were rushed, with shouting and beating, to the nearby bathhouse. . . .” And: “barracks 43 and 44 (Effektenkammer) contained sacks with property taken away from prisoners. In barrack 43, also the newly arrived prisoners were received (Aufnahmebarake). This was where the new arrivals were robbed of their property, registered, and given numbers and signs.” What Marszałek says is not at all similar to what these revisionists claim historians say about the prisoner arrival-processing route.

The idea that barrack design worked only one way is a red herring. Prisoners could enter these simple horse-stable structures from either direction, no matter how the original plan for barrack no. 42 had it, and the structures could be adapted as uses or procedures changed. Indeed, that’s what the evidence shows to have been the case, as outlined above. Most of the testimonies I know of are not clear as to orientation. I know of no testimonies other than Gröner’s that seem possibly to describe entering the bathhouses from the north (there may be some, but I’ve not read them).

But there are testimonies that are clear about prisoners entering the bathhouses from the south. For example, here are some in addition to what I cited in my reply of last August (see below):

Former inmate Alexander Donat described being brought first to the Effektenkammer and then entering directly into the bathhouse just after exiting the Effektenkammer to its south – without mentioning walking around it under the canopy roof to the north. Contrary to denier claims about where prisoners were processed, often, as Donat described, they were taken first to the Effektenkammer, not to the bathhouses; it was after processing in the Effektenkammer that arriving prisoners were taken to one of the bathhouses just north of the Effektenkammer (or to the “Rosengarten” west of the bathhouses).

Another testimony paralleling Donat’s is that of Andrzej Stanisławski (I’ll return to this testimony fragment in a post explaining how BRoI confused himself about the shower room in the bathhouse): “They herded us out into the frost. From in front of the Effektenkammer we rushed naked and barefoot through the biting frost to a barracks with a sign reading ‘Bad’ or bathhouse.” This description has these prisoners coming into to the bathhouses from the south, not from the north. The excerpt from Stanisławski’s testimony I’ve quoted here is posted inside the bathhouse at Majdanek (barrack no. 41), in plain sight enough for a visitor to have recorded it for Philly Mag in 2014 and for me to have a photo of it from October 2015 – but apparently the testimony was not posted during BRoI’s visits to the camp.

Image

Allowing for differences in the processing of Poles and Jews, a second prisoner testimony posted inside barrack no. 41 at Majdanek describes roughly the same entry route during 1943 as Donat – from Effektenkammer right to a nearby barrack. This is testimony of a Polish prisoner Jerzy Kwiatkowski: “Along come several SS men whose ranks I cannot recognize, and they order us into an empty barracks. There we must undress quickly and hold all our valuables and clothing in our arms. That’s the order. We stand there naked and wait. The double gates of the stable-type barracks are wide open, and we get goose bumps. . . . Finally they order us to go to the showers in groups of one hundred. Naked and barefoot we run across the frozen ground to an adjacent building, about a hundred meters away. In the cold cloakroom sit several barbers. . . .”

Image

Still another prisoner testimony describing how prisoners were taken to the Effektenkammer barrack (in this case called the “Effektenabteilung”) was given by the unnamed Slovakian Jew quoted in the testimonies collected by Rajca and Wiśniewska.

Further confirmation that prisoners were often taken to the Effektenkammer comes from the testimony of SS-Obersturmführer Friedrich Ruppert, head of the camp’s technical section from September 1942 through spring 1944: “Each prisoner went to the property barracks where all his baggage, underwear, and clothing were taken away,” along with valuables (Wiśnioch, Majdanek: A Guide to the Historical Buildings, p 22).

Also, in the videotaped interview below, former Polish prisoner Józef Psiuk says, “we had our hair cut and later we went through a small passage to the baths" - but the only "small passage" leading prisoners to the entry to the baths in barrack no. 41 was at the southerly end of the barrack. (From 2:44 through 2:59 in the video, showing the route described.)



Another prisoner Irena Marszałek, who came to Majdanek in January 1943, has also explained how she entered the shower room – with the tub right where she entered, that is, from the passage to the south, as the double-tub is located at the entrance to the southern end of the shower room in both of the bathhouses (rough translation: “In the corner at the entrance is a stone trough. It is filled with Lysol to disinfect.”) (also known as Irina Marszałek)

A summary view of entry procedures described in a number of testimonies looks like this:

Image

The yellow line first shows prisoners being taken to the Effektenkammer – barracks 43-44, where they were processed and their valuables were taken from them. Next, another yellow line shows prisoners exiting the Effektenkammer and going (they went naked) to either of the bathhouses (barracks 41 or 42) or to the Rosengarten (R), where some prisoners waited their turn to be put through the bathhouses or taken to the gas chambers. Selections could occur in the Rosengarten or inside the bathhouses. I’ve labeled the bunker with gas chambers north of the bathhouses with a G. From the late summer or early fall 1942, a pavilion roof stood on pole supports over the gas chambers. There were, as noted above, variations to the flow shown here – but not the variation the revisionists call “Truth.”

Hunt and BRoI - whether through bias, laziness or dishonesty – keep refusing to take into account evidence that is contrary to their claim about how the bathhouses were used – such as the southern-entry testimonies above. The pair have not provided any reason to think that the March 1942 plan explains how the bathhouses were configured and used from fall 1942 through fall 1943. In fact, there are some testimonies that show the bathhouses were used as Hunt and BRoI have said they could not have been used.

References:

Georg Gröner: placard in B&D I (barrack no. 41) at Majdanek (excerpt from testimony; Majdanek State Museum says that the file code is resource XIX-1426 and that the original is in Bundes Archiv Ludwigsburg under the reference number B162/407/ARZ 297/60,Bd.13); also “rose garden” in Mailänder, pp 174-175

Józef Marszałek: Majdanek: The Concentration Camp in Lublin, pp 32, 79

Alexander Donat: The Holocaust Kingdom, pp 140-142

Jerzy Kwiatkowski: placard in B&D I (barrack no. 41) at Majdanek, from 485 dni na Majdanku, pp 9-10 (Majdanek State Museum says that the file code is APMM VII/M-8, VII-135/1, VII-135/96, VII-135/218)

Unknown inmate from Slovakia, in Czeslaw Rajca & Anna Wiśniewska, Majdanek Concentration Camp, pp 49-50

SS-Obersturmführer Friedrich Ruppert: Maria Wiśnioch, Majdanek: A Guide to the Historical Buildings, p 22.

Andrzej Stanisławski: placard in B&D I (barrack no. 41) at Majdanek (excerpt from prisoner’s account); quoted in http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/10/2 ... in-poland/ (Majdanek State Museum says that the file code is APMM VII/M-159)

Irena [Irina] Marszałek: http://sunday-news.wider-des-vergessens.de/?p=10896 (Majdanek State Museum says that the file code is APMM VII/M-173)
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Worse for BRoI, I will be back with prisoners’ recollections saying that they showered, then bathed – but entered the shower room, and thus the bathhouse, from the south.
When I responded to BRoI’s video last August, my main argument about this supposed proof offered by BRoI was that the shower room could have accommodated a flow of prisoners through the bathhouses in either direction. There is nothing in the layout of the shower room that implies which way the prisoners entered from, despite BRoI’s claim that the tubs of disinfectant at the south end of the room prove that prisoners entered from the north. If the prisoners could walk several meters, the room could accommodate prisoners’ showering and bathing in either order.

Here is the Polish-Soviet Commission drawing of barrack no. 41, as printed in Graf & Mattogno’s book on Majdanek:

Image

North is toward the top. I’ve outlined the shower room in red and indicated the narrow passage to the shower room with a green dot, the entry to the shower room with a blue dot, and the disinfectant tubs with a yellow dot. Prisoners can easily walk in either end of this room, shower in the area north of the tubs and then bathe in the tubs, or bathe in the tubs and then shower in the shower area. What on earth is stopping them – either way?

In my reply last August I quoted two prisoners (Zofia Pawlowska and Czeslaw Skoraczynski ) who later recalled that they were first bathed in Lysol or another similar solution, then showered – a sequence which, according to BRoI’s video, was ridiculous. But there are also testimonies that give a shower/bath sequence. In fact, most of the testimonies I’ve read describe showering but do not even refer to the prisoners being disinfected in the tubs.

The biggest trouble for BRoI, however, is that those testimonies giving a shower/bath sequence also support southern entry into the room – and thus into the bathhouse. Take Irena Marszałek quoted in an earlier post: Marszałek testified that she and other prisoners showered, watched by SS men, then the prisoners dunked in the tub, after which they were sprayed with a disinfestant – but Marszałek recalled entering, as described above, from the south, not where BRoI and Hunt say, from the north.

Or take Andrzej Stanisławski, another former prisoner, also mentioned in a prior post, who testified about arrival procedures. According to Stanisławski, the prisoners were made to take showers in a room with “several dozen showerheads.” Then: “our shower was over. But they made us take an additional ‘bath,’ this time in that concrete vat of carbolic acid. They referred to it ironically as a ‘disinfectant bath’ and used their sticks to make sure no one avoided it.” The problem for the north-south flow BRoI is trying to prove with all his nonsense is that Stanisławski also described the shower room, saying “Next to the door we had entered from that ‘waiting room’ stood an enormous concrete tub full of water reeking of carbolic acid.” The tub, again, stood at the southern end of the room, where there was an entrance to the room, not to the north.

I do not know what evidence BRoI thinks supports the argument he’s made about this: but in my last two posts I have shown a number testimonies, some of them on display at the museum, that show that the arrival, bathing, and selection process used at Majdanek was not firmly established as BRoI and Hunt claim.

References:

Irena [Irina] Marszałek: http://sunday-news.wider-des-vergessens.de/?p=10896 (Majdanek State Museum says that the file code is APMM VII/M-173)

Andrzej Stanisławski: placard in B&D I (barrack no. 41) at Majdanek (excerpt from prisoner’s account); quoted in http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/10/2 ... in-poland/ (Majdanek State Museum says that the file code is APMM VII/M-159)
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:27 pm

Last, I’d like to go back through the five things I asked David to explain for us last August.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Now, I have some questions about this silly video for David I guess, since Hippity-Hop seems allergic to actual debate:

1. In what way does a plan from March 1942 prove how the bathhouses were used from fall 1942 to fall 1943 – after the bunker and gas chambers were added and the purpose of the facility was updated?
This question remains unanswered; there is still no explanation for how the March plan for a barrack is supposed to prove anything about how a pair of barracks constructed months later was used. And there is rather evidence that the bathhouses were not used as Hunt and BRoI say the March 1942 plan dictated. David left this discussion when he found himself confused about the bathhouse layouts and asked for, and received, my help with basic documents on those layouts.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:2. Why didn’t the narrator mention the undressing rooms to the south of the showers listed for both barracks in the Polish-Soviet commission report – was this “oversight” because the southern location of the undressing rooms undermines his claim that the prisoners must have undressed to the north of the showers?
As noted earlier, BRoI himself has written that he simply failed to note this southern undressing room. But with the existence of this detail on the Polish-Soviet Commission report, the so-called proof goes away and with it so should the video BRoI keeps posted on YouTube.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:3. How does the position of the delousing baths within the shower room prove which way prisoners passed through the barrack?
I can help our deniers answer this one: It doesn’t. In fact, we have evidence showing that some prisoners moved in the opposite direction to what Hunt and BRoI claim.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:4. In what way does a photo from summer 1942 provide evidence for how the bathhouse and bunker were used starting around October 1942? Why is the protruding “vestibule” discovered by the narrator not described in either the text or on the diagrams of the Polish-Soviet Commission report (August 1944, as reproduced in Graf & Mattogno)?
Miedzyrzec.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:5. What are the supposed lies in my SSF posts?
Still waiting to hear.

More to the point, why is BRoI’s dishonest and error-prone video still available on YouTube?

So, BRoI made a video about my supposed lying about Majdanek – and in it gave 4 arguments meant to prove Eric Hunt’s case for how the bathhouses in the camp were used by the Germans. All 4 arguments have turned out to be empty. I still don’t know what these guys think actually proves their case. I can guess why BRoI keeps his deceptive video posted.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:37 pm

:gp:






:pc:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:19 pm

David - "Wrong way gas chambers"? Prove it. We're waiting. Thanks much, your friend, SM
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:43 am

Is everyone as surprised as I am that David hasn't returned to this topic but prefers dropping in new threads of non-interest?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:45 pm

:no:


But I'm running out of popcorn...
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:37 pm

Not really, he came back to a refined thread. He doesn't have any more room to squirm around.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:17 pm

That sort of thing doesn't usually stop David. I am worried about him. He's behaving more oddly than usual.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:34 am

In progress:

The Polish-Soviet Commission report on Majdanek, released in 1944, concluded that “The chambers set up on the grounds of the camp were designed and used primarily for the mass poisoning of human beings.” According to the report, “Chamber No. 1,” the large chamber in the bunker just north of B&D I (also barrack no. 41), “was intended ONLY for the poisoning of human beings with carbon monoxide and hydrocyanic acid; therefore, its immediate and direct purpose was THE EXTERMINATION OF HUMAN BEINGS.” “Chamber No. II,” one of the two smaller rooms in the bunker, “was intended exclusively for poisoning human beings with hydrocyanic acid,” while the other small room in the bunker, “Chamber No. III,” was “designed FOR POISONING HUMAN BEINGS WITH CARBON MONOXIDE.” As to “Chamber No. IV,” the room in B&D I just north of the shower room in that barrack, the Commission concluded that it was not a regular disinfection chamber because “it was designed to make use of the substance ‘Zyklon’” for “the purpose of exterminating human beings.”

The Commission also identified two rooms near the laundry in Interfield I, so-called Chambers V and VI, as gas chambers: “they too could have been used as chambers for poisoning human beings, but in view of their location / proximity to the Laundry, where the clothing that had belonged to the murdered people was taken to be washed, it follows that these chambers were also used for disinfestation.”

According to the Commission, “all these chambers, and especially Nos. I, II, III and IV, were designed and used as sites for the systematic mass extermination of human beings by means of poisoning with poison gases such as hydrocyanic acid (the substance Zyklon) and carbon monoxide.” (quoted in Graf & Mattogno, pp 124-125)

There is, however, virtually no witness testimony confirming any rooms other than those in the bunker (I-III in the Polish-Soviet Commission report) as gas chambers. Graf & Mattogno cite a single testimony, from Abraham Silberschein, a prisoner who escaped, which contained a confused account of gassings in the camp in which elements of the bathhouse complex and Interfield I were mashed up (1944 testimony, pp 176-178); I don’t know of any others.

On the other hand, of 106 testimonies about gassings at Majdanek that I’ve read or listened to, seen excerpted, or read summaries of or references to, 46 describe the bunker-bathhouse complex generally as the site of gassings, 14 identify the bunker specifically, 17 refer to presumably fixed chambers without specificity as to location, and 11 refer to a gas van (the remainder are generic, speaking of “gassing” but not clearly where - or the portion of the testimony I’ve seen doesn’t contain specific information).

The testimony of Willi Reinartz, an SS orderly who worked with Hans Perschon operating the gas chambers in the bunker, is especially noteworthy: "People were mass-murdered only in one gas-chamber which was located in a brick building near the bathhouses. Other chambers were used for disinfection. . . ." (bold added, quoted in Kranz pp 47-48, 55; see also Mainlander pp 173-174) Here, in testimony given to NKVD interrogators in fall 1945, Reinartz directly challenged the conclusion of the Polish-Soviet Commission regarding chamber IV and the soft conclusion of the Commission regarding chambers V-VI. In addition, in 1965, a Kapo who worked in the bathhouse, Ernst Fischer, explained that his crew of 22-23 men would spend the day in a special room in the bathhouse, near the bath, where they deloused clothing; this crew was at some point also made to clean the gas chambers after they were used. Likely Fischer was describing "IV," which was the room to the north of the shower-bath room in barrack no. 41, the men's bathhouse. (Mailänder p 174)

Further, Kranz cites an underground report that reinforces the conclusion that the only gas chambers used to kill people at Majdanek were located in the bathhouse/bunker complex: the camp underground, “Opus,” made a report 13 October 1943 that mentioned construction of new, larger gas chambers near laundry “because delousing of clothes and underwear is also done using gas.” This report seems to refer to V and IV, utilizing gas for clothing delousing rather than murder of prisoners. (These rooms were likely not even built until fall 1943, around the time that the gassing program was ended.) (Kranz, p 42)

Again, there is virtually no testimonial evidence that I know of for the homicidal use of chambers other than I-III (in the bunker) but there is testimonial evidence against chambers other than these being used to kill people. The testimonial evidence aligns with Pressac’s conclusions and with those made later by Kranz. Chamber IV’s uses remain unclear, and whether a gas van was used at Majdanek is also not conclusive (more on the van in a future post).

One more note on the testimonies I’ve been looking at (and I continue to read more): Of those whose role I can identify, about 25% giving postwar testimonies were German officers, guards, or Camp SS (64% were prisoners, Jewish prisoners about a third of these). There are 25 Germans in the sample. Three of these were 3 Ausferherinnen, of whom 1 participated in gassings, 1 observed gassings first hand, and 1 was informed by a participant (another Aufserherin) about the gas chambers. Of the 17 Camp SS who later testified about gassings, 5 participated in gassings, 4 observed them taking place, 5 reported being informed about the gassings by SS or others participating in them, 1 reported hearsay, and for 2 we don’t know how they learned. Also, the spouse of 1 SS man testified about being told of his gassing duties. In addition, 6 senior German officials (including Höss, Wisliceny, and Sporrenberg) all later testified that gas chambers were used at Majdanek. In all, of the Germans stationed at or knowledgeable about Majdanek, 84% were direct witnesses to the gas chambers or informed by participants (vs 35% in rest of sample). Of the 20 Germans stationed at Majdanek in my sample, 6 testified after the war that Zyklon B was used to gas people, and 5 described murders using CO. Hess also wrote that Zyklon B was used at Majdanek. Of the SS men and women Aufseherinnen in the sample who worked at the camp, 5 described the site of the gassings as the bunker, 3 described the bathhouse/bunker complex generally. One Security Police officer in Lublin described a gas van.

this is very much a work in progress; I'll be refining this and cleaning it up over the next few weeks, but I thought it'd be good to share what I have so far - and ask David also to share with us his evaluation of witness testimonies about gassings in Majdanek
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