Examples of successful self defense with a gun

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:33 pm

clarsct wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Assumed by Americans to exist naturally, and surely for a few more countries - but not universally, and not without risk of loss, should a supermajority (is this right?) of Americans decide so.
I have the natural right of individual sovereignty regardless who says I don't. It's possible that I might be prevented from exercising that right, but that doesn't mean I don't have it.
So if I declare that I have a right, even though I may be prevented from exercising it by my government, I still have that right? That seems rather meaningless to me.
On the contrary, that is where it becomes most meaningful.

When the government has overstepped, it is the duty of people to speak up. To do something. The old man blocking tanks in Tiananmen Square is a prime example. That is the exercise of individual sovereignty. And it is powerful.

In the words of Mel Gibson: They can take our lives, but they cannot take our FrrEEeeeeDOOOOOOMMM!!

It's a cheesy movie line, made cheesier by the cheesy actor playing it out, but the sentiment is the same. They may kill me. But no one can degrade me without my consent.
OK, but when a minority of people have overstepped, it is the duty of the government on behalf of society to take action. To do something.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:38 am

http://www.chron.com/houston/article/Ho ... 183341.php
NE Harris home invasion sparks shootout
By Dale Lezon | April 7, 2015

A man grabbed his gun and opened fire on suspects during a shootout early Tuesday morning when they kicked in the door at his home in northeast Harris County.

... McCaffrey said a family was asleep when two men kicked in the front door and started shooting. A resident on the couch woke up, grabbed his handgun and fired back. In all, he fired about 10 shots toward the intruders.

The suspects backed away, climbed into a getaway car driven by a third suspect. The resident ran after them and the shootout continued as the suspects sped off.

No injuries were reported.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:15 am

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/intr ... e/32084990
Intruder shot by Detroit homeowner after breaking into house
Derick Hutchinson, Mar 30 2015

DETROIT - Authorities say a 21-year-old man was shot Monday when he broke into a home on Detroit's east side.

Police say a 29-year-old woman was upstairs when someone broke into her house in the 5500 block of University Place. Her brother was downstairs on the couch, and she heard shots fired at around 3:40 a.m.

She said she heard someone asked if there was anyone else in the house, so she armed herself and stood at the top of the stairs.

Shortly afterwards, a man arrived at St. John Hospital with multiple gunshot wounds. He is listed in critical condition. A police source tells Local 4 that the man was an intruder in the break-in.

... Neighbors say they support what the victims did to protect themselves.

"That's good, he had to," said Eric, another neighbor. "I would have done the same thing. Me or them. It got to be them, coming in my house. What would you do if someone came into your house, with your family?"

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:27 am

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... e-who-sho/
Papa John’s Pizza won’t fire female employee who shot armed robbery suspect in self-defense
By Douglas Ernst - The Washington Times - Friday, January 16, 2015

A female employee of Papa John’s Pizza who shot an armed robbery suspect in self-defense will not be fired by the company.

Despite a policy that prohibits employees from carrying firearms, the company told Fox News on Thursday that it will not fire a Decatur, Georgia, woman who shot her alleged assailant in the face.

DeKalb County Police Department said Donquaz Stevenson, age 24, allegedly forced the Papa John’s Pizza employee to the ground at gunpoint, at which point she turned around and fired her own weapon.
Contrary to those who insist a gun won't be much help in scenarios like the above, this example shows that even if the attacker points a gun at you, it is still possible to stop the threat with your own gun.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by toroid » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:06 am

Here's a situation from personal experience. AFAIK, a gun wasn't involved, but you decide if the existence of guns affected the outcome.

I parked around dusk in a dark out-of-the-way location near a viaduct because street parking was almost non-existent. I locked the car and started walking purposefully away. Immediately 3 young (perhaps around 20 y.o.) men appeared, coming from an alley or a doorway across the street, the apparent leader displaying a moderate sized knife (I'd guess a 6" to 8" blade) in a seemingly aggressive manner and advanced purposefully toward me.

I felt threatened and immediately (probably in about a second) thought of a plan that might alleviate the threat. I turned to face the trio, at the same time reaching into a back pocket and pulled out my wallet with the thought of throwing it underhanded to them, hoping they'd momentarily hesitate and let me run off.

As soon as they saw my motion they stopped advancing. I held the wallet in my hand and moved my arm purposefully back and forth, trying to signal my intent. To my utter astonishment the apparent leader with the knife, followed by the others almost in unison, began to slowly back away. I immediately ran like hell hanging on to the wallet. After running a few blocks with no apparent pursuit I slowed, put the wallet back in the pocket and continued walking briskly away

The next morning in bright daylight I returned to the car, which was untouched, and drove away. End of story.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Major Malfunction » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:50 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:You're talking to yourself again, Xoups. You know that makes you look like a crazy person.
Who are you talking to?
Reasonable, intelligent people. Or reasonably intelligent people. Sometimes.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Major Malfunction » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:54 am

He's got a point, Xoups.

Distraction and running away is a pretty good defence.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Flash » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:07 am

They knew he was going to slice them to pieces with his credit cards.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:45 am

Major Malfunction wrote:He's got a point, Xoups.
Distraction and running away is a pretty good defence.
I accept that. I do not say guns are the only successful means of self defense. I agree that running away is sometimes a good defense. However, if you are attacked in your house, as in some of the examples I posted above, it is not always possible to run anywhere.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Major Malfunction » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:49 am

Flash wrote:They knew he was going to slice them to pieces with his credit cards.
Like ninja stars! Pew pew pew. All dead.

Arnold Schwarzenegger one-liner, as he wrenches the embedded cards out of their skulls:

"Give me some credit."
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:01 am

Major Malfunction wrote:Arnold Schwarzenegger one-liner, as he wrenches the embedded cards out of their skulls:

"Give me some credit."
Arnold Schwarzenegger one-liner, as a cop in the final episode of Two and a Half Men, dripping with sarcasm:

"Yeah, and I used to be the governor of California."

I almost fell out of my chair laughing at that one.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by clarsct » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:22 am

Major Malfunction wrote:He's got a point, Xoups.

Distraction and running away is a pretty good defence.
Or they thought he had a gun.

A bluff only works if there is a chance of it being real.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by clarsct » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:24 am

TJrandom wrote:
clarsct wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Assumed by Americans to exist naturally, and surely for a few more countries - but not universally, and not without risk of loss, should a supermajority (is this right?) of Americans decide so.
I have the natural right of individual sovereignty regardless who says I don't. It's possible that I might be prevented from exercising that right, but that doesn't mean I don't have it.
So if I declare that I have a right, even though I may be prevented from exercising it by my government, I still have that right? That seems rather meaningless to me.
On the contrary, that is where it becomes most meaningful.

When the government has overstepped, it is the duty of people to speak up. To do something. The old man blocking tanks in Tiananmen Square is a prime example. That is the exercise of individual sovereignty. And it is powerful.

In the words of Mel Gibson: They can take our lives, but they cannot take our FrrEEeeeeDOOOOOOMMM!!

It's a cheesy movie line, made cheesier by the cheesy actor playing it out, but the sentiment is the same. They may kill me. But no one can degrade me without my consent.
OK, but when a minority of people have overstepped, it is the duty of the government on behalf of society to take action. To do something.
Ok.

Not sure where you're going there. Yes, the government has a duty to prosecute crime. A government that cannot is meaningless.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Major Malfunction » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:39 am

clarsct wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:He's got a point, Xoups.

Distraction and running away is a pretty good defence.
Or they thought he had a gun.

A bluff only works if there is a chance of it being real.
Like a real wallet, which like he said, he was waving in their faces.

Surely long enough for them to realise it's not a gun.

Except for you.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:55 am

Major Malfunction wrote:
clarsct wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:He's got a point, Xoups.
Distraction and running away is a pretty good defence.
Or they thought he had a gun.
A bluff only works if there is a chance of it being real.
Like a real wallet, which like he said, he was waving in their faces.
Surely long enough for them to realise it's not a gun.
You may be right, but I am not fully convinced. I am still puzzled why the attackers ran away. If they could tell it wasn't a gun, then why did they run away? Thus, a reasonable hypothesis is they (mistakenly) thought he had a gun. Or perhaps waving a thing around confused the {!#%@} out of them, criminals not always being the sharpest crayon in the box. "Need more input, Stephanie."

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Major Malfunction » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:04 am

Are you at least open to the idea that there are many more ways to defend yourself without deadly force?
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:42 am

Major Malfunction wrote:Are you at least open to the idea that there are many more ways to defend yourself without deadly force?
Sure.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:48 am

When help was mere minutes away, it only took seconds to commit suicide…

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/04/0 ... as-stolen/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — We now know more about where a Coon Rapids teenager got a gun used to accidentally shoot his girlfriend, then take his own life.

Alantae Arnold‘s girlfriend told police he was playing with a .357 Magnum when he accidentally shot her on March 9. Police tell WCCO the gun was stolen from a Coon Rapids home.

The tragedy unfolded at the Winchester Place Apartments in Coon Rapids. Arnold, 15, and his 14-year-old girlfriend were in his apartment when his mom frantically dialed 911.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:52 am

When help was mere minutes away, it only took seconds to commit suicide…

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairp ... ce_say.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
McKinney Teen Committed Suicide With Gun Stolen By Friend, Police Say

A McKinney teenager who shot himself last week was given a stolen gun by a friend to use as protection against alleged bullying, McKinney police believe.

Jordan Sharifi, 17, stole the handgun from a drawer in the home of the family he was staying with along with a box of ammunition on March 27 and gave it to Raymond Howell Jr., 14, according to police.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:07 am

TJrandom wrote:When help was mere minutes away, it only took seconds to commit suicide…
Japan has far fewer guns than the US, and yet the suicide rate in Japan is double that of the US.

So what exactly is your point?

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:36 pm

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:When help was mere minutes away, it only took seconds to commit suicide…
Japan has far fewer guns than the US, and yet the suicide rate in Japan is double that of the US.

So what exactly is your point?
I thought that you didn`t want to compare countries. But since I was wrong on this, Japan has far fewer suicides by guns than does the US. In 1999 Japan had 47, while the US was nearly 20k in 2010.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/japan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-fe ... dden-toll/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


My point is this. Your examples of successful defense by a gun can easily be offset by examples of unnecessary deaths by guns - all in the US, btw.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:08 am

Six year old kills 2 year old and 16 year old. How can you say that was unnecessary?
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:28 am

TJrandom wrote:My point is this. Your examples of successful defense by a gun can easily be offset by examples of unnecessary deaths by guns - all in the US, btw.
That's factually incorrect. There are far more instances of self defense with a gun in the US than there are unnecessary deaths by gun. Also, you may have noticed that most of the cases I cite in this thread do not result in the attacker getting killed.
TJrandom wrote:I thought that you didn`t want to compare countries. But since I was wrong on this, Japan has far fewer suicides by guns than does the US. In 1999 Japan had 47, while the US was nearly 20k in 2010.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/japan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-fe ... dden-toll/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
OK, yes, comparing the two countries was not part of your point, and I withdraw it.

But before I do, I would point out that in Japan they have taken away most of the guns and that has not solved Japan's suicide problem, so why is it reasonable to think it will solve the problem in the US?

In any case, there is another major problem with comparing suicides to self defense. My Second Amendment right to own a gun did not pull the trigger in someone else's suicide. What other people choose do to themselves is not the fault of my mere possession of a firearm.

I agree suicides are a serious problem, but taking away my gun is not an acceptable solution. I should not be required to give up my right of self defense with a gun merely because certain other people choose to hurt themselves with a gun.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:36 am

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:My point is this. Your examples of successful defense by a gun can easily be offset by examples of unnecessary deaths by guns - all in the US, btw.
That's factually incorrect. There are far more instances of self defense with a gun in the US than there are unnecessary deaths by gun. Also, you may have noticed that most of the cases I cite in this thread do not result in the attacker getting killed.
TJrandom wrote:I thought that you didn`t want to compare countries. But since I was wrong on this, Japan has far fewer suicides by guns than does the US. In 1999 Japan had 47, while the US was nearly 20k in 2010.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/japan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/magazine-fe ... dden-toll/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
OK, yes, comparing the two countries was not part of your point, and I withdraw it.

But before I do, I would point out that in Japan they have taken away most of the guns and that has not solved Japan's suicide problem, so why is it reasonable to think it will solve the problem in the US?

In any case, there is another major problem with comparing suicides to self defense. My Second Amendment right to own a gun did not pull the trigger in someone else's suicide. What other people choose do to themselves is not the fault of my mere possession of a firearm.

I agree suicides are a serious problem, but taking away my gun is not an acceptable solution. I should not be required to give up my right of self defense with a gun merely because certain other people choose to hurt themselves with a gun.
OK - but since we aren`t comparing... I would suggest that Japan`s suicides would be far greater in number if we had the same gun proliferation problem that the US has. And of course by extension, were guns, and particularly hand guns – not so readily available, the US would see a dramatic reduction in suicides, accidental deaths, and killings by relatives.

The ready access to guns, and the almost complete lack of any regulation whatsoever certainly do contribute to unnecessary deaths by gun in the US - a position which it seems you support, so IMO you don`t get off the hook of responsibility quite so easily. Legally off the hook – not morally.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:17 am

Suicide rates in Japan should not be used as comparison for anything. Suicide has a completely different moral and cultural connotation in Japan, with none of the christian stigmas we have.
Guns would not make suicides more common, because they cause messy deaths - the complete opposite of what the suicide is supposed to achieve: the goal is to remove the burden of oneself from your loved ones and society, the same way someone might jump of the lifeboat to drown so that the others have a better chance at survival. You wouldn't want your loved ones to have to scrape your brains of the wall and complicate the funeral. You use pills and die in a tidy manner, or if necessary use a razor in the bathtub (easy to clean).

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:30 am

ElectricMonk wrote:Suicide rates in Japan should not be used as comparison for anything. Suicide has a completely different moral and cultural connotation in Japan, with none of the christian stigmas we have.
Guns would not make suicides more common, because they cause messy deaths - the complete opposite of what the suicide is supposed to achieve: the goal is to remove the burden of oneself from your loved ones and society, the same way someone might jump of the lifeboat to drown so that the others have a better chance at survival. You wouldn't want your loved ones to have to scrape your brains of the wall and complicate the funeral. You use pills and die in a tidy manner, or if necessary use a razor in the bathtub (easy to clean).
Well, I disagree on the likelihood of what would happen if handguns were suddenly widely available in Japan. You do raise good points on the cultural aspect - but people still off themselves here by jumping in front of a train and with a knife - very messy. I seriously doubt that the vision of cleanup would deter use of an almost guaranteed method for both success and assumed painlessness.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:32 am

ElectricMonk wrote:Suicide rates in Japan should not be used as comparison for anything. Suicide has a completely different moral and cultural connotation in Japan, with none of the christian stigmas we have.
Guns would not make suicides more common, because they cause messy deaths - the complete opposite of what the suicide is supposed to achieve: the goal is to remove the burden of oneself from your loved ones and society, the same way someone might jump of the lifeboat to drown so that the others have a better chance at survival. You wouldn't want your loved ones to have to scrape your brains of the wall and complicate the funeral. You use pills and die in a tidy manner, or if necessary use a razor in the bathtub (easy to clean).
Sounds reasonable. I'll accept your argument.

Caveat: As with any issue, I reserve the option to revisit the matter if additional information warrants it. But for now, I'll accept your observations at face value.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:42 am

TJrandom wrote:OK - but since we aren`t comparing... I would suggest that Japan`s suicides would be far greater in number if we had the same gun proliferation problem that the US has. And of course by extension, were guns, and particularly hand guns – not so readily available, the US would see a dramatic reduction in suicides, accidental deaths, and killings by relatives.
Maybe so, maybe not. I would prefer to see evidence instead of a suggestion.
TJrandom wrote:The ready access to guns, and the almost complete lack of any regulation whatsoever certainly do contribute to unnecessary deaths by gun in the US - a position which it seems you support, so IMO you don`t get off the hook of responsibility quite so easily. Legally off the hook – not morally.
If someone chooses to shoot themselves with their own gun, I did not pull that trigger. Neither does any law pull that trigger. Neither the US Constitution nor the US Supreme Court pulled that trigger. It is not my moral or legal responsibility to give up my right to self defense with a gun merely because someone else chooses to kill themselves.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:52 am

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:OK - but since we aren`t comparing... I would suggest that Japan`s suicides would be far greater in number if we had the same gun proliferation problem that the US has. And of course by extension, were guns, and particularly hand guns – not so readily available, the US would see a dramatic reduction in suicides, accidental deaths, and killings by relatives.
Maybe so, maybe not. I would prefer to see evidence instead of a suggestion.
TJrandom wrote:The ready access to guns, and the almost complete lack of any regulation whatsoever certainly do contribute to unnecessary deaths by gun in the US - a position which it seems you support, so IMO you don`t get off the hook of responsibility quite so easily. Legally off the hook – not morally.
If someone chooses to shoot themselves with their own gun, I did not pull that trigger. Neither does any law pull that trigger. Neither the US Constitution nor the US Supreme Court pulled that trigger. It is not my moral or legal responsibility to give up my right to self defense with a gun merely because someone else chooses to kill themselves.
So you suggest that Japan arm themselves so that you can see the evidence? Or were you offering to disarm the US, so you could see the reduction in deaths?

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by clarsct » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:53 am

Major Malfunction wrote:
clarsct wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:He's got a point, Xoups.

Distraction and running away is a pretty good defence.
Or they thought he had a gun.

A bluff only works if there is a chance of it being real.
Like a real wallet, which like he said, he was waving in their faces.

Surely long enough for them to realise it's not a gun.

Except for you.
Dark alley, someone not acting like a complicit victim usually does? I don't know I can't fully speak for their mindset, but, either way, they likely believed that he had a means of defense. Maybe they thought it was a badge. Maybe they thought it was a taser, or a stun gun.

Either way, they believed that he was attempting to defend himself, and went a different direction. This only works if the society in question allows it citizens a means to do so.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:46 am

TJrandom wrote:... were guns, and particularly hand guns – not so readily available, the US would see a dramatic reduction in suicides, accidental deaths, and killings by relatives.
TJrandom wrote:So you suggest that Japan arm themselves so that you can see the evidence? Or were you offering to disarm the US, so you could see the reduction in deaths?
No. Sorry I wasn't more clear what I had in mind.

If some country (or other appropriate jurisdiction) has already tried the experiment, what were the results? I haven't looked, so I was asking if you knew of any such results. If no country has tried such an experiment, then we have no empirical evidence to support your hypothesis.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by xouper » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:59 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/doctor-fired-back ... 24705.html
Doctor fired back at gunman in hospital attack
Associated Press, July 24, 2014 8:01 PM

DARBY, Pa. (AP) — A psychiatrist who was grazed by gunfire from a patient at a suburban Philadelphia hospital Thursday helped stop the gunman by apparently using his own weapon to shoot and wound him, but not before a caseworker was killed, authorities said.

A patient opened fire after entering the doctor's office at Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital with the caseworker, District Attorney Jack Whelan said. Witnesses reported hearing yelling before the gunshots.

... the psychiatrist, "from all accounts, would have acted in self-defense," Whelan said.

The doctor, who suffered a wound to his head, "faced a situation where his life was in jeopardy," Whelan said. He was expected to be interviewed by detectives late Thursday.

The hospital has a policy barring anyone except on-duty law enforcement officers from carrying a weapon anywhere on its campus, a spokeswoman for the Mercy Health System said.

But Yeadon Police Chief Donald Molineux said that "without a doubt, I believe the doctor saved lives."

"Without that firearm, this guy (the patient) could have went out in the hallway and just walked down the offices until he ran out of ammunition," the chief said. ...
This is an example of how a so-called "gun free zone" would have been a "defenseless victim zone" had the doctor not been carrying his gun that day.

Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action, has said that a (civilian) good guy with a gun has never stopped a bad guy shooter in public facilities.

What planet does she live on??

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:16 pm

When playing with a gun, it only took seconds to shoot a friend…

Texas boy, 8, accidentally shoots and kills friend, 5, with rifle

The victim, who had been in critical condition since Saturday, passed away on Monday. The boys had been playing in a Denton residence around 11:30 a.m. on Saturday when the shooting occurred.


An 8-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed a 5-year-old friend with a .22-caliber rifle on Saturday, police in Denton, Texas, say.

The young victim, whose identity has not been released, was in critical condition as of Saturday evening, but passed away just after noon on Monday. The boy was taken to Denton Regional Medical Center and treated for a gunshot wound to the head before being transferred to Children's Medical Center in Dallas, NBC News reported.

The boys had been playing in a bedroom of the 5-year-old's home around 11:30 a.m. when the shooting occurred, and police said that two adults and a teenager were also in the home.

No charges have yet been filed, though the case could still be referred to a grand jury pending a full investigation.

The shooting is just one of the seemingly endless American headlines involving children and guns over recent weeks.

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by TJrandom » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:24 pm

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:... were guns, and particularly hand guns – not so readily available, the US would see a dramatic reduction in suicides, accidental deaths, and killings by relatives.
TJrandom wrote:So you suggest that Japan arm themselves so that you can see the evidence? Or were you offering to disarm the US, so you could see the reduction in deaths?
No. Sorry I wasn't more clear what I had in mind.

If some country (or other appropriate jurisdiction) has already tried the experiment, what were the results? I haven't looked, so I was asking if you knew of any such results. If no country has tried such an experiment, then we have no empirical evidence to support your hypothesis.

OK – so how about Australia, assuming that you are open to country comparisons. Wow - homicide down by 59%, suicide by 65%. (Bold added....)
So what have the Australian laws actually done for homicide and suicide rates? Howard cites a study (pdf) by Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... australia/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by digress » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:03 pm

Let's get real, all guns should be replaced by swords. There is no honor in firing a gun.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:40 pm

digress wrote:Let's get real, all guns should be replaced by swords. There is no honor in firing a gun.
I have more swords than guns. If someone came into this house I'd let them pick the sword they wanted to use. Then I'd turn them into a popsicle.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Austin Harper » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:08 pm

I also own more swords than guns!
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:09 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
digress wrote:Let's get real, all guns should be replaced by swords. There is no honor in firing a gun.
I have more swords than guns. If someone came into this house I'd let them pick the sword they wanted to use. Then I'd turn them into a popsicle.
Even if they came for the promised hamburger?


(Remind me to never accept an invitation to your house! :-P)
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:11 pm

And I only have more s-words than guns. :(
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Re: Examples of successful self defense with a gun

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:43 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
digress wrote:Let's get real, all guns should be replaced by swords. There is no honor in firing a gun.
I have more swords than guns. If someone came into this house I'd let them pick the sword they wanted to use. Then I'd turn them into a popsicle.
Even if they came for the promised hamburger?


(Remind me to never accept an invitation to your house! :-P)
I'll decide if they live or die. Offering to do the dishes will be a tie-breaker.
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