50 dead in Florida

Duck and cover
psychiatry is a scam
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1647
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 am
Custom Title: eugenics never stopped

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote: STOP REPEATING THE STUPID LIBERAL MANTRA. They are not "assault" weapons.

With a 30 round, domestic clip, semi-automatic, at 3.200 ft/sec?

That's "30 assaults" in one clip.



Do you "hunt" rabbits like this? You must be a very brave man. :lol:
a clip is not a magazine - google it

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:02 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

Paul Anthony.

You lose credibility when you lie. You said there were four times as many murders by knife than by gun in the USA. The statistics above show that for 2012 (the latest year listed) nearly 9,000 gun murders versus just over 1500 stabbing murders.
I didn't lie. You misread, perhaps? I said "Handguns accounted for at least 48 percent of all murders between 2010 and 2014, according to FBI data, while rifles - a category that includes more traditional types of long guns - accounted for 2.4 percent. Roughly four times as many people were killed by knives in that period".

Four times as many as with rifles.
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

User avatar
Flash
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6151
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:09 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Flash » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:34 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Will this wake up some of the morons and make them see reality?
Are you kidding? Whom are you going to wake up in America?

BTW, what happened to the proverbial good guy with a gun who was going to stop the bad guy with a gun? NRI fantasy again.

I can't believe that with so many guns in America "for hunting" there actually are animals still alive to be hunted. Okay, there are rats in Detroit, beavers in Minnesota and grizzlies in the Rockies. You need real canons for those. God damn pests.

Oh yeah and there is the last free roaming buffalo herd on the planet in the Yellowstone. An assault rifle with a big magazine can come handy here.
Last edited by Flash on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Will this wake up some of the morons and make them see reality?
Nope. Just keep sending more bullets to the USA and let the hidden hand of evolution sort the problem out.

It's their own chosen goal to knock themselves off. Let em go for it. . There is obviously no shortage of Americans, for other Americans, to target. It would appear to be their national hobby.
:lol:

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: There is obviously no shortage of Americans, for other Americans, to target. It would appear to be their national hobby.
Well, I'm 69 and I've never shot anyone, nor have any of my relatives, friends or neighbors. We must be very un-American.

Either that, or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by ryu » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:59 am

On another note let's look at white nationalists thinking:
Those hajis got a higher score than this haji, and they’ve got the most restrictive gun laws in the whole world.

How many times can these people tell this same idiot lie?

The West has a Moslem problem and a more general non-White problem. It doesn’t have a gun problem.

In Paris, they didn’t call for guns to be banned after the Paris massacre – because guns are already banned.

Think about that.

Obama also said we should pray for the dead faggots, again mocking America’s prime values.
Off course white terrorists are also doing these things far longer than muslim...and were provoked by whites in the first place yes?
Faggots didn’t really have it that bad in White countries before the faggot rights movement. Basically, they were left alone. Sure, they weren’t allowed to march down the street carrying gigantic dildos, but they weren’t getting thrown off buildings either.

They were allowed to have their faggot sex clubs, as long as they didn’t have a neon sign out front. They were allowed to do whatever sickening acts they wanted inside their own bedrooms. No one was hunting them down.

Soon, the reality is going to set into the drug-rattled brains of these homos that if they continue to support the liberal agenda, they are going to be hunted down and murdered for their anal behavior – and be left without any guns to defend themselves (note that many homos are actually obsessed with guns; they also tend to hate Blacks and other non-Asian non-Whites).
I am really not sure about the gays and guns claim...especally without evidence provided...oh and gays were hunted down. http://outhistory.org/items/show/1425
Really...he must think people are stupid and then also says...yeah join us and we won't kill you as long as you aren't gay....you know he is being two faced.

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:23 am

ryu,

I'm just curious...how stupid do you have to be to believe that represents the thoughts and beliefs of more than just a few nutcases?
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:38 am

Paul

Are you an apologist for the gun manufacturers?

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5230
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:47 am

We can very easily separate guns vs. rifles here: yes, most firearm death occur with handguns. But almost all mass-shootings are done with rifles (plus handguns).

Trying to buy a semi-automatic anywhere should send red flags to local and federal law enforcement, espcially in places with no hunting areas.
While many countries allow the sale of semi-automatics, they restrict the number of rounds in a clip dramatically (outside of shooting ranges). For hunting, either you hit with the first 2 rounds, or your target is gone. There is no conceivable circumstance in which a private person needs to fire 30 rounds in a row.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:51 am

Paul Anthony wrote: Well, I'm 69 and I've never shot anyone, nor have any of my relatives, friends or neighbors. We must be very un-American. Either that, or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
I don't think any gay boys in that club had shot anyone recently either. I guess when you become a target next time....that's just your bad luck like theirs.

Keep up the good work
:lol:

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:13 am

Excluding suicides, about 100,000 Americans each year receive a bullet through some part of their anatomy. Most of these are attempts at murder. Some are accidents, or 'legal' shootings. Roughly 12,000 such cases result in death.

If you average that over a 79 year average life span, then one in 50 Americans will receive a bullet. Does anyone consider that acceptable?

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34981
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Gord » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:06 am

Paul Anthony wrote:
Gord wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote:The Democrats, as usual, couldn't let a tragedy go to waste and immediately called for gun control. It doesn't matter to them that the shooter was a security guard with permits to carry and had a security clearance. NO amount of gun registration could have prevented this.
You mean like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orland ... ee-n590581

Looks like the AR-15 is being used exactly as designed -- to kill people.
OK, here's what you might not understand [snip]
No, I understand.
AR-15's are not any more efficient than a six-shooter. They just LOOK scary. Sure, with a large clip they can shoot more than 6 times without re-loading, but so can most pistols.
And they're all designed to kill people, which was my point.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:46 am

I have listened to the shots (CNN), and the rapid fire wasn`t semi-automatic. Of course it is possible that the tape I heard included shots from the police, but if it was just the shooter - it was full auto. Anyone have good data on the gun used?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19375
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:42 pm

You know: irrationality of the type that is a danger to yourself or others is red flagged when you start using words with your own private meaning or for the same reasons deny the simply understanding of words used by other people.

From the wiki: "Assault weapon is a term used in the United States to define some types of firearms.[1] The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions, but usually includes semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, and sometimes other features such as a flash suppressor or barrel shroud."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Not that it matters for any subject honestly addressed.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23860
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:57 pm

Paul Anthony wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: There is obviously no shortage of Americans, for other Americans, to target. It would appear to be their national hobby.
Well, I'm 69 and I've never shot anyone, nor have any of my relatives, friends or neighbors. We must be very un-American.

Either that, or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
I'm 65 and I've shot hundreds of people. Probably. Never tried to count.

And you're right. Our problem, compared with the civilized world, is large. But I've never been involved in a mass shooting in the US, and neither have most Americans.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14535
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by JO 753 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:46 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Will this wake up some of the morons and make them see reality?
The same question iz surely being asked all over the internet by the gun nuts.

"If there wuz just 1 good guy with a gun in that club, Mateen coud hav been stopped before killing so many."

The thing iz that this iz true. The problem with it iz that if there were suppozedly good guyz with gunz everywhere all the time the number uv shootingz woud increase even if they stopped every mass shooter before he killed anybody. And the mass shooter situation duz not favor the good guy with a Glock in hiz holster.
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19375
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:57 pm

"We think with words, and flower with ideas." ///This saith the bobbo.

I see total agreement on the tube that this incident variously a terrorist attack. Interestingly, the FBI was quoted as stopping short of this saying only that "It was an act of terror." ///// Can you SPOT THE DIFFERENCE?

I think this incident will be another case study in very sloppy, lazy, incoherent lack of thinking. The facts have barely started to come in, so conclusions are out of place. I'll venture a few anyway....because...I enjoy observing myself change my own opinion as the facts change. Aint that a hoot?

What is an act of Terrorism? Seems to me its when terror is used as a tool to achieve or otherwise represent some other goal. As already been said, say of ISIS to bring a World Caliphate. Calling on LONE WOLVES to bring this about. So far===>this is total BS. I think I saw one reference to the shooter contacting ISIS or saying something about ISIS. That is not enough. Is the connection to ISIS going to be for the purpose of establishing a World Caliphate?................the odds are against it. So, most likely what we have is an act of terror, but not a terrorist attack.

Is the incident about guns?======OF COURSE IT IS. There would have been no such carnarge with.............dare I say a knife. Or even a six gun. Or even.....with only 6 bullet clips. So, in the end, we either restrict access to these types of weapons OR accept the carnage as the price of all the other benefits such weapons provide. Yes, total sarcasm, but thats the lay of the land.

Here's the big one in my mind: MENTAL HEALTH. The shooters ex says he was nuts. The shooters co-workers says he was constantly enraged (about gays, women...and some third issue). Where was the mental health social safety net for this person AND FOR SOCIETY in the run up to this incident? Thats right: non-existent, waiting for the crime for the penal system to step in.
Social Safety Net: something only the gubment can do. No free market buying and selling and skimming and fraud to play this role. Only the gubment. As a fiscal conservative: to be fully paid for by general revenue......even if our billionaires have to give up a bigger yacht in order to reach that level of funding.

Mental Illness. But how did it express itself? Not in a "pro gun" outburst. Not in a Pro-Isis outbreak. But in a Pro-Muslim Religion outbreak. Don't that suck if you are for religious freedom? Yes indeed it does.....but again, thats the lay of the land. The connection is DIRECT not extended. Muslims hate women, hate the gay, and hate whatever that third thing was. Hate too strong a word and doesn't represent the true religion.? Ha, ha. People aren't motivated by the Truth. People are motivated by what they think is true. That is what is true...as modified.

Just look.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19375
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:41 pm

TV says: Shooter called (911) minutes before the attack to proclaim his allegiance to ISIS,

obama calls it an act of terror and an act of hate.

So...also note FBI had contacted the shooter twice before...no further details as to why. How's my little rant holding up? I have to say on its fact claiming allegiance to ISIS would tend to make following actions one of terrorisim........UNLESS..... the words to 911 where "just words." If he yelled "Remember the Alamo" would he be fighting for Independence from Mexico? Too easy for a Muslim full of hate and bigotry to tag ISIS in any number of ways. The nexus to terrorism is not made by mere mention of ISIS. There needs to be a little bit more, like agreeing with their end goals. Until then....its just the Muslim Religion. Anti Gay....Anti Woman...anti that third thing. Pro Violence to achieve ends. Something ISIS shares with Jihad...but fits better on a bumper sticker or a 911 call.

Ha, ha....BOTH Hillary and Trump...calling for action against ISLAM. Totally misplaced......no military is going to stop nuts in a box.

Edit: "action against JIHADIST Islam" /// I don't intend to knowingly alter the statement/issues invovled. My version of the truth is nasty enough.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Frank Hoffman
Poster
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:25 pm
Custom Title: Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Frank Hoffman » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:36 pm

I have an Indiana handgun license but have yet to find the need to purchase a firearm. You may say I am either of two minds or have no brain... but I do like data, so have always enjoyed The Economist magazine:

"A brief note here about pesky facts. One of the favourite ploys of pro-gun lobbyists in America is to claim that Australia and Britain have been plagued with violent crime since each of those countries endured a big gun massacre and responded by tightening gun laws dramatically. The pro-gun lobby’s numbers do not add up. Australia outlawed assault rifles, semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns. Australia has not had another mass shooting since its laws changed in 1996, and a University of Sydney study shows that firearm homicide rates fell 7.5% per year after the introduction of the new laws, with no offsetting rise in other homicides. Australian robbery and break-in rates have also fallen since 1996.

As for Britain, the number of violent assaults in America is comparable to those of other western countries, yet murders are much more common. Guns are used in two-thirds of all murders. Americans are five times as likely to be murdered as Britons but over 40 times as likely to be murdered with a gun."

Jun 12th 2016, 19:00 BY LEXINGTON | WASHINGTON, DC

User avatar
Frank Hoffman
Poster
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:25 pm
Custom Title: Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Frank Hoffman » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:44 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:....even if our billionaires have to give up a bigger yacht in order to reach that level of funding.
This shooter was a guard at a gated community, but he didn't shoot up the rich people. The affluent have bodyguards, so what do they care?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19375
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:25 pm

FH: thats an interesting factoid. Evidently, those rich people treated him nice enough, or not so dismissively that it overpowered a lifetime of Islamic teachings. Pros and Cons to every belief system. That includes religion. Only flat out BS artists say my religion is one of peace and love. Of course it is....but what else is it? And more than any others, Islam denigrates women, gays, and non-believers. So does Catholicism...just not as much. So does Evangelical Protestantism re gays...again, just not as much.

I just saw Hillary emphasizing this was no time to scapegoat or penalize the Islam Religion. If not now....when? Once again: we have the SIN OF CONFLATION. Ignoring the political aspects of Islam in favor of the lazy-think it is a religion just like all the others.

Silly hoomans. Everything is the same as everything else..............BUT DIFFERENT too. You got to do both evaluations. Add them up. Make a decision.

OH....I see you say he was a guard BUT the rich had bodyguards in addition? That is one rich community then. I assume you are overstating the case. Not that if true I think it would have mattered. Maybe.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:54 pm

Frank's comments about Australia are exactly correct.
What the pro-gun lobby forget is that this is already an experiment with clear cut results. If we compare western nations, we see an exact correlation between per capita gun ownership and per capita murder rates. The USA has most guns and most murders. Japan has fewest guns and fewest murders. Other nations fall in place in between. If you want fewer killings, then based on solid empirical data, you need fewer guns. Simple.

Harvard University has done a similar study comparing 50 American states, and found the same correlation.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19375
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:10 pm

I thought Switzerland has the most guns per cap as they mandate ownership/possession as part of homeland defense?....and yet a very low death by gun rate. Some think that is because they indeed are trained and relatively culturally homogenous. Up Next: homogeneity theory to be tested with influx of asylum seekers.

Must have been some other exceptions too? As you are already wrong in your statement.....I don't believe the correlation is that high. Same with USA states. I wish it were true..............................

Keep your powder dry.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:20 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I thought Switzerland has the most guns per cap as they mandate ownership/possession as part of homeland defense?....and yet a very low death by gun rate. Some think that is because they indeed are trained and relatively culturally homogenous. Up Next: homogeneity theory to be tested with influx of asylum seekers.

Must have been some other exceptions too? As you are already wrong in your statement.....I don't believe the correlation is that high. Same with USA states. I wish it were true..............................

Keep your powder dry.
Check out this article, and chart....


http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/0 ... 17ysDpf3IU

psychiatry is a scam
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1647
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 am
Custom Title: eugenics never stopped

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:33 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I thought Switzerland has the most guns per cap as they mandate ownership/possession as part of homeland defense?....and yet a very low death by gun rate. Some think that is because they indeed are trained and relatively culturally homogenous. Up Next: homogeneity theory to be tested with influx of asylum seekers.

Must have been some other exceptions too? As you are already wrong in your statement.....I don't believe the correlation is that high. Same with USA states. I wish it were true..............................

Keep your powder dry.
that is interesting , had to google swatstikaland and asylum seekers - and your right , they are having problems already .

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 13199
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Switzerland is more tightly controlled than you think. For example, military reservists who take their guns home will not normally be issued ammunition. However, the large number of guns is having an impact. Switzerland has a very high rate of suicide, and guess how most of those suicides are carried out?

ON the comparison between American states, I can only quote Harvard, since they did the work. There are other factors, of course, such as different cultures. For example, the states that form New England tend to have lower murder rates than southern states. The state with the lowest gun numbers is Hawaii, and it also has almost the lowest murder rate. Hawaii has the advantage that it can keep guns out. Mainland states cannot, since crossing a state border carrying guns is so easy.

Mexico has a very high murder rate, with their drug culture. Interestingly, almost every hand gun murder in Mexico is done with hand guns from the USA. So easy gun availability in America has a nasty side effect on its neighbours. This even affects Canada. Canada has a murder rate similar to the New England states (similar culture). About 50% higher than Britain. Canadians can get guns if they are determined, since they can buy them from inside the USA.

AUstralia and New Zealand are island nations (even if Oz is a very big island) and controlling guns is easy. Thus, we have much lower murder rates.

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:27 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"We think with words, and flower with ideas." ///This saith the bobbo.

I see total agreement on the tube that this incident variously a terrorist attack. Interestingly, the FBI was quoted as stopping short of this saying only that "It was an act of terror." ///// Can you SPOT THE DIFFERENCE?

I think this incident will be another case study in very sloppy, lazy, incoherent lack of thinking. The facts have barely started to come in, so conclusions are out of place. I'll venture a few anyway....because...I enjoy observing myself change my own opinion as the facts change. Aint that a hoot?

What is an act of Terrorism? Seems to me its when terror is used as a tool to achieve or otherwise represent some other goal. As already been said, say of ISIS to bring a World Caliphate. Calling on LONE WOLVES to bring this about. So far===>this is total BS. I think I saw one reference to the shooter contacting ISIS or saying something about ISIS. That is not enough. Is the connection to ISIS going to be for the purpose of establishing a World Caliphate?................the odds are against it. So, most likely what we have is an act of terror, but not a terrorist attack.

Is the incident about guns?======OF COURSE IT IS. There would have been no such carnarge with.............dare I say a knife. Or even a six gun. Or even.....with only 6 bullet clips. So, in the end, we either restrict access to these types of weapons OR accept the carnage as the price of all the other benefits such weapons provide. Yes, total sarcasm, but thats the lay of the land.

Here's the big one in my mind: MENTAL HEALTH. The shooters ex says he was nuts. The shooters co-workers says he was constantly enraged (about gays, women...and some third issue). Where was the mental health social safety net for this person AND FOR SOCIETY in the run up to this incident? Thats right: non-existent, waiting for the crime for the penal system to step in.
Social Safety Net: something only the gubment can do. No free market buying and selling and skimming and fraud to play this role. Only the gubment. As a fiscal conservative: to be fully paid for by general revenue......even if our billionaires have to give up a bigger yacht in order to reach that level of funding.

Mental Illness. But how did it express itself? Not in a "pro gun" outburst. Not in a Pro-Isis outbreak. But in a Pro-Muslim Religion outbreak. Don't that suck if you are for religious freedom? Yes indeed it does.....but again, thats the lay of the land. The connection is DIRECT not extended. Muslims hate women, hate the gay, and hate whatever that third thing was. Hate too strong a word and doesn't represent the true religion.? Ha, ha. People aren't motivated by the Truth. People are motivated by what they think is true. That is what is true...as modified.

Just look.
This is the most intelligent post I've seen you write!

Well, actually, I didn't "see" you write it. Who wrote it for you? ;)
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:56 pm

and the truth is exposed.... fake .... [ytube][/ytube]
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:57 pm

another hired actor... [ytube][/ytube]
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
Flash
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6151
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:09 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Flash » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:00 am

Paul Anthony wrote:
Well, I'm 69 and I've never shot anyone, nor have any of my relatives, friends or neighbors. We must be very un-American.

Either that, or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
I recommend an educational trek through Detroit, parts of Chicago, New Orleans...
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:09 am

I'll bet no one was actually shot......all a propaganda manipulation like the others...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19375
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:19 am

Flash wrote:I recommend an educational trek through Detroit, parts of Chicago, New Orleans...
South Philly .... had me on edge. I told wifey....if we get a flat tire, I'm gonna keep on trucking. Similar experience in South Chicago. Missed Detroit. New Orleans......musta missed it.

Downright "bizaree" how bad some neighborhoods can be...or even huge swaths of land. I pity the poor people caught in such environments....and marvel society hasn't broken down more generally to such levels.

Makes me .................. shudder............how thin civilization is. Hence.....concerns about AGW..... it ain't going to take much.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:31 am

fake victim with leg shot ...carry him for camera, then stand him up and laugh... [ytube][/ytube]
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by ryu » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:28 am

gorgeous wrote:another hired actor... [ytube][/ytube]
While I doubt that this was a false flag, his testimony should be called into question because of this.

User avatar
Flash
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6151
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:09 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Flash » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:29 am

Gowdzilla Sama wrote:
I'm 65 and I've shot hundreds of people. Probably. Never tried to count.
I tell you, it's a plague in America. No, not the killings. The complete failure to keep good records. We know that American cops kill a lot of people but never put it down on paper, you know, for the future generations to see...and be proud.

And now the ordinary citizens like yourself Gawzilla...you kill hundreds of people and you can't even count them? Being able to count only to ten is no excuse. Never mind recording the actual names, Johnny, Henry, Slim, Buckeye... but not even notches on your gun?

Statistics, I tell you, it will make America great again.
Last edited by Flash on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:31 am

actors are commonly used in many of the fake mass shootings... [ytube][/ytube]
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:36 am

'dead' reporter's 'dad' was an actor , too [ytube][/ytube]
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:55 am

shooter worked for crisis actor company....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by gorgeous » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:55 am

According to Media Reports Alleged Orlando mass Shooter Omar Mateen was employed by G4S which is a client and associate of Crisis Cast. The website for Crisis Cast states "Award winning role play actors and film makers specially trained in disaster and crisis management." ^^^^^
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:56 am

JO 753 wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Will this wake up some of the morons and make them see reality?
The same question iz surely being asked all over the internet by the gun nuts.

"If there wuz just 1 good guy with a gun in that club, Mateen coud hav been stopped before killing so many."

The thing iz that this iz true. The problem with it iz that if there were suppozedly good guyz with gunz everywhere all the time the number uv shootingz woud increase even if they stopped every mass shooter before he killed anybody. And the mass shooter situation duz not favor the good guy with a Glock in hiz holster.
It was a gun-free zone. Have you noticed yet that all mass shootings only take place in gun-free zones? Even crazed shooters are smart enough to stay away from places where other people might have guns, too.

Gun-free zone: a place where only bad guys are allowed to have guns. It's for their safety, I suppose. College students have been telling us, everyone needs a safe space. ;)
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.