50 dead in Florida

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:36 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:will this wake up some of the normal people and make them see reality; and admit that psychiatry drives mentally ill people insane ?
No, because it you who is insane and refuse to see a psychiatrist.

Psychiatrists have had nothing to do with Orlando. You are having another fantasy delusion.

Seek help.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Flash » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:16 am

Let me see, the US has at least seventeen semi secret agencies (aka the intelligence agencies, although the word "intelligence " here is a misnomer), FBI, the Homeland Security, the NSA and other electronic spying thingies as well as thousands of police departments with their own undercover and (forgive me) intelligence capabilities. They are spying on Americans 24/7 and they can't even stop a real massacre like the Boston or Orlando ones? But never mind Boston or Orlando. There are smaller massacres occurring every week in the US and the billion dollar spying and law enforcement organizations haven't stopped practically a single one.

Oh yes, but these agencies are very good at finding some mentally deficient and angry homeless people whom they equip with bombs and guns for free so they can arrest them later for terrorism. Mission accomplished, and Americans...these are your dollars at work. Aren't we doing a great work for you?

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:21 am

Your alternative is no intelligence at all?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:44 am

Flash wrote:Let me see, the US has at least seventeen semi secret agencies........ They are spying on Americans 24/7 and they can't even stop a real massacre like the Boston or Orlando ones?
I don't knock the FBI or NSA because they have an almost impossible task.

If I wrote a software program that was based on 5 indicators gathered from different outside agencies and internal collected data, then there will always be "X"% who will slip through. If I take it up to six indicators I'm starting to move towards the Stassi in old East Germany, with one agent per every 200-300 civilians.

It's not like the SIS or CIA, that can follow leads and "snoop around" at their own chosen pace. The FBI and NSA have to work in real time in mass volume percentages. It's more like standard police work, than intelligence work, except with three hundred million "suspects".

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Flash » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:12 am

bobbo the Pragmatist wrote:
Your alternative is no intelligence at all?
No, every country needs a good intelligence agency but in the US they have multiplied like viruses. I doubt the system is efficient, it seems there is competition, jealousy, not sharing of data and plain old sloppiness.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Flash » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
It's not like the SIS or CIA, that can follow leads and "snoop around" at their own chosen pace. The FBI and NSA have to work in real time in mass volume percentages. It's more like standard police work, than intelligence work, except with three hundred million "suspects".
But with the Tsarnaev brothers and Mateen the FBI knew exactly whom they had and as I just wrote on the other thread these people were probably being evaluated and protected by the CIA as the potential US assets (terrorists) abroad.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:30 am

part of the problem is if they investigate and find no crime , they have to close the investigation !?!
can't stop someone who has no criminal record from buying an assault rifle .
BUT someone pointed out that there is a no fly list that can deny people the right to fly , without any reason :burn:

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:33 am

Flash wrote: But with the Tsarnaev brothers and Mateen the FBI knew exactly whom they had and as I just wrote on the other thread these people were probably being evaluated and protected by the CIA as the potential US assets (terrorists) abroad.
Whoa whoa whoa..... There is a difference between a domestic agency knowing exactly who one suspect is, who triggered four indicators and directing that same agency's resources to those other suspects who triggered "five indicators".

Secondly, there is simply no way that these people would be protected by another agency, the CIA, for overseas dirty work, because you have train them to act like "foreign locals", like a normal trained intelligence officer, anyway. In reality, you simply use "foreign locals." themselves, as they already have real "back-stories" in their own countries. It reduces "blow-back" ;)

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:36 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:part of the problem is if they investigate and find no crime.
I'm fairly sure shooting 49 people is a crime, despite your anger that no psychiatrists were involved.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:36 am

Rachel Madow reporting statement from ISIS that they recommend who cannot join them in Syria go ahead and attack civilian targets where ever they are. don't attack the military or other symbollic targets, attack civilians as this creates more pain thereby giving us more pleasure. It continues: if you don't have a gun...use what you have....a knife or a car. Two days later==knife attack in English, some time later a hatchet attack, later in Canada a car attack with two more in France.

Hmmmm...."inspired by....or directed by..." Where is the dividing line between nut cases that borrow a bumper sticker vs a Jihadi Fighter for ISIS Pleasure? It does matter: social services vs war....not that we could not and should be doing both. More of the former, less of the latter?

A lot of social norms break down when some number of people are willing to kill themselves to fight for a goal. Not even win...just fight. The veneer of civilization is very......VERY....thin. Look at any natural disaster....takes about 3 days and that is with assuming help is on the way. A diaspora of Islamic Terrorists????? They are too much like fast moving zombies or vampires that can go out in the sunlight. I hate those guys.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Gord » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:05 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:can't stop someone who has no criminal record from buying an assault rifle.
Why not? Severe mental illness isn't a crime; shouldn't they be able to stop the severely mentally ill from buying assault rifles?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Aztexan » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:19 am

No. That would be un-American.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:30 pm

Aztexan wrote:No. That would be un-American.
The near super-majority of Americans are for "common sense gun controls." Its the Republican Party in the Pocket of the NRA that is the paid shill of the Gun Manufacturers that is Un-American in denying the majority will. Congress sheep show their gutless lack of spine on this issue....as they have done with the Candidacy of Trump.

Just...........look.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Monster » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:32 pm

These days, my facebook news feed is so full of utter BS regarding the massacre in Orlando that I simply can't respond anymore. A substantial amount of the BS is coming from liberals.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:39 pm

Monster: like what?..................I am curious on a number of levels.

Of note: my little known local Baptist Mexican Church Minister came out in full throated support of the Orlando Massacre==they were all sodomites and pedophiles don't you know? Thus saith the Bible in Ecclisiastesticals. I think the guy is actually very close to deserving a criminal prosecution. Not as clever as the next nut case Baptist up who said the same thing then cautioned that direct action was not called for as that was the job of the authorities. I smell a lawyer in the choir.

Somewhat related: the fact the wifey knew the shooter was on his way to commit carnage. She did nothing. From a few news commentors...I think she will escape prosecution. Evidently, spouses have NO duty to turn in their nutbag spouses for crimes being or planned to be committed. They just cannot participate or they will be charged as an accessory. the example given: driving the shooter to the location. But when emotions are running full tilt, I imagine the bar for participation will be set quite low. How about: took a phone message about his gun ready for pickup at the gun shop? Even more removed????

Pros and cons.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:51 pm

Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:can't stop someone who has no criminal record from buying an assault rifle.
Why not? Severe mental illness isn't a crime; shouldn't they be able to stop the severely mentally ill from buying assault rifles?
just repeating what I heard on tv ; he had no criminal record .
you people keep taking one part of a rant to attack .
yor white boy looks like he is typing lulz lulz lulz .

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:56 pm

Be honest, be direct, learn from what is presented.

Stand up for what you post......or stop.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Here's why we can't have nice things:

Here are all the Congresscreeps who took NRA money and tweeted prayers for Orlando:

http://fusion.net/story/313223/congress ... r-orlando/

And Yes Shirley===>They are ALL REPUBLICANS.

poodle and I are on record thinking this looks suspicious......but thems the facts so far.

(((Looks like the same group that praises our Veterans for their services while cutting their VA benefits.)))
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:07 pm

Flash wrote:Paul Anthony wrote:
Well, I'm 69 and I've never shot anyone, nor have any of my relatives, friends or neighbors. We must be very un-American.

Either that, or you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
I recommend an educational trek through Detroit, parts of Chicago, New Orleans...
Gee, go into a rough neighborhood to see if you need to keep a loaded gun on the coffee table or in your armpit. Great idea.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:44 pm

can't find any info / story about the police officer / security guard .
found one story that was deleted .

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Gord » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:20 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:can't stop someone who has no criminal record from buying an assault rifle.
Why not? Severe mental illness isn't a crime; shouldn't they be able to stop the severely mentally ill from buying assault rifles?
just repeating what I heard on tv ; he had no criminal record .
you people keep taking one part of a rant to attack .
respond to
yor white boy looks like he is typing lulz lulz lulz .
She's a chick, man.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Aztexan » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:48 pm

Monster wrote:These days, my facebook news feed is so full of utter BS regarding the massacre in Orlando that I simply can't respond anymore. A substantial amount of the BS is coming from liberals.
I don't have Facebook but I see your point. But doesn't the republican response of offering nothing more than prayer bother you as much?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Monster » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:30 pm

Aztexan wrote:
Monster wrote:These days, my facebook news feed is so full of utter BS regarding the massacre in Orlando that I simply can't respond anymore. A substantial amount of the BS is coming from liberals.
I don't have Facebook but I see your point. But doesn't the republican response of offering nothing more than prayer bother you as much?
It bothers the {!#%@} out of me.

(I must state this before I go further. From an American political standpoint, I consider myself neither liberal nor conservative.)

I listen to a center-conservative radio show quite often. Armstrong and Getty. During one of the recent massacres by Muslims (I think the one in France, with the rock concert), A&G mentioned that a lot of people were sending France "thoughts and prayers". A&G said a bunch of atheists were ridiculing the people who sent "thoughts and prayers". A&G said that one atheist said his fellow atheists were being "dickish."

My stance on thoughts and prayers is the same as The Atheist Experience hosts. That is, that it is worse than useless. It makes the person doing the praying think he's doing something, when he's actually doing nothing. At the same time, I realize that chiding religious people for sending thoughts and prayers doesn't help anything. So personally, I tend to just ignore it when people say that they're sending thoughts and prayers. Actually, I tend to ignore all of the debate when these massacres happen. I end up getting in arguments and it's bad for my stress levels.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:38 pm

Chick-fil-a, the company hated by liberals for its Christian views, provided free food to all in line to donate blood for the victims. The employees volunteered to do this ON A SUNDAY, THE SABBATH when the stores are always closed.

The shooter was registered as a Democrat.

You just can't keep track of the good guys and the bad guys without a scorecard.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by TJrandom » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:54 pm

Paul Anthony wrote:... The shooter was registered as a Democrat. ....
Well, he wasn`t all bad then. ;)

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:59 pm

Paul Anthony wrote: The shooter was registered as a Democrat.

You just can't keep track of the good guys and the bad guys without a scorecard.
The shooter was an arsehole. I read an item on line which was based on interviews from people who knew him. Apparently he was an evil sh!t since childhood. A bully. Selfish. Opinionated. Violent. Absolutely the most nasty little craphead you ever came across. That fact trumps anything related to religion or political affiliation.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:51 am

Monster wrote:These days, my facebook news feed is so full of utter BS regarding the massacre in Orlando that I simply can't respond anymore. A substantial amount of the BS is coming from liberals.
I can easily imagine bull-{!#%@} coming from both sides. I can understand your frustration and annoyance.

I guess the only position to take, is to ensure to yourself that you have thought fully about all the issues and then act accordingly as an individual.

In the past, when there was a disaster, or a big train wreck, or something like that, everyone put aside their differences and worked together to fix the immediate situation. Nowadays, catastrophes become launching pads for everyone's personal agenda.

If I have kids, I will teach them to be polite and not piggyback personal agendas from the high profile tragedies of other humans, until the matter settles and the facts are all known.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:19 am

Monster wrote:(I must state this before I go further. From an American political standpoint, I consider myself neither liberal nor conservative.).
Well, "objectively" from your own mouth you are a right wing puke. Not too hard to spot your traditional right wing bumper sticker mentality: "A substantial amount of the BS is coming from liberals." This simply reveals your observational bias as establishing many of the social conservative talking points.

The inability to see it yourself, the obviously faulty claim of neutrality, and your failure or refusal to even give examplies of what the frick you are even talking about makes you a Right Wing nutter. My apologies if your history on this forum shows anything other...every morning, and each new post..... defines us.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Monster » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:19 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Monster wrote:(I must state this before I go further. From an American political standpoint, I consider myself neither liberal nor conservative.).
Well, "objectively" from your own mouth you are a right wing puke. Not too hard to spot your traditional right wing bumper sticker mentality: "A substantial amount of the BS is coming from liberals." This simply reveals your observational bias as establishing many of the social conservative talking points.

The inability to see it yourself, the obviously faulty claim of neutrality, and your failure or refusal to even give examplies of what the frick you are even talking about makes you a Right Wing nutter. My apologies if your history on this forum shows anything other...every morning, and each new post..... defines us.
Ha ha! No, I'm not a right wing nutter. The reason I wrote what I wrote about liberals is because nearly every user on this site is a liberal and think that liberals can do no wrong. That's not true. Republicans and conservatives are usually shat upon daily on this site (frequently with good reason) but not a word against liberals or Democrats.

I won't post examples about what I was talking about because I don't care too. Maybe I will eventually but I'd rather not focus on things that make me furious, so I won't now.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Poodle » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:41 am

It's all relative. From where I sit, I see Bobbo as pretty far to the right. Just goes to show you.

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:47 pm

Monster: poor even dishonest position to take.

Poodle: on what besides inviting inconsistent cultures into your own for what benefit without recognizing the risks? Or is it an evaluation that there are pros and cons to all we do a far right position???
.............and don't think for a moment I didn't notice you call me "bad" on that other post. That went to the quick.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:49 pm

Ha, ha................Ryan on tv right now defending Trump while double speaking all the way. Evidently, any Democrat is worse than Hitler. I think...............thats called putting Party (Power) above Country. A very righty position to take?
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by TJrandom » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:16 pm

Monster wrote: ... liberals can do no wrong. That's not true. ...
Of course it is true - when compared to what so-called conservatives have wrought. Wars, social evils, economic disaster… ;)

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:28 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Monster wrote: ... liberals can do no wrong. That's not true. ...
Of course it is true - when compared to what so-called conservatives have wrought. Wars, social evils, economic disaster… ;)
Well, it was a Republican President that invaded Iraq and blew up a stable country, but it was the Democrats that celebrated the deconstruction of so many other countries in the Arab Spring movement - until the Muslim Brotherhood gained power in Egypt. Definitely not liberal enough. So the Dems encouraged another uprising.

Yeah, Liberals do no wrong. According to Liberals. ;)
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:44 pm

PA--its NOT that subtle. Initially phrased as an absolute/either/or proposition it then immediately becomes a statement of comparison. By inference, you agree you have no shot at all with social evils and economic disaster brought to USA and the World by the Evil Pukes. So...you want to obfuscate about War....while starting with one that you admit the Pukes started. Where are we right now?==about Dumbos +63 and Pukes -150?

Let's see: "deconstructions of so many other contries in the Arab Spring movement." //// That must mean something to you that means the opposite to me? What was the Arab Spring except very much a consequence of the destabilization caused by BushtheRetard invading Iraq and not being able to transition to civilian control??????? Ha, ha.....as is almost always the case: you indentify Liberal/Dem failures in their inability to correct the errors committed by Pukes.

................and all the while Obama getting called traitor for not starting more wars.

As usual......{!#%@} for brains.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:49 pm

"There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who believe there are two kinds of people in the world and those who don't." - Robert Benchley

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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:51 pm

Back on topic...I hope...

I'm not usually a fan of Howard Stern, but he made sense on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1l3ADfeFF8
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Gord » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:05 am

Paul Anthony wrote:Chick-fil-a, the company hated by liberals for its Christian views
No, it's hated for its anti-gay views. Anti-gay is not specifically a Christian view, it is specifically a bigoted view.

Chick-fil-A "dramatically" funding anti-gay organisations in 2012 in response to the minor public outcry, although they're still donating to the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Apparently they want to appear to be more open -- y'know, for business purposes. As such, it is not surprising that Chic-fil-A would take this opportunity to publicly support grieving potential customers, especially if it will make them appear less homophobic.

As with most large companies, many good people work there and were willing to donate time to help others. It doesn't make the COO any less despicable, though.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by Paul Anthony » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:12 am

Gord wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote:Chick-fil-a, the company hated by liberals for its Christian views
No, it's hated for its anti-gay views. Anti-gay is not specifically a Christian view, it is specifically a bigoted view.

Chick-fil-A "dramatically" funding anti-gay organisations in 2012 in response to the minor public outcry, although they're still donating to the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Apparently they want to appear to be more open -- y'know, for business purposes. As such, it is not surprising that Chic-fil-A would take this opportunity to publicly support grieving potential customers, especially if it will make them appear less homophobic.

As with most large companies, many good people work there and were willing to donate time to help others. It doesn't make the COO any less despicable, though.
Let's be fair...I know that's not how we usually do things around here, but...

You argue that (A) the company provided food as a publicity stunt, and, (B) it was the employees, not management that decided to help.
Oh, so the employees are in charge of the company's the PR, not management. Your argument is an emotional outburst not worth consideration.
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Re: 50 dead in Florida

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:02 am

The COO is despicable... not everyone who works there is. Cool.... I have worked in such companies, and needed to `keep my head low` and seem to agree to the sometimes rather nasty management comments.