Gun Safety

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ElectricMonk
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Gun Safety

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Let's approach the subject of gun rights and controls from a different, hopefully less controversial angle:

my question is: what, if any, are the constitutional or moral objections to making guns less accident prone?

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:29 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Let's approach the subject of gun rights and controls from a different, hopefully less controversial angle:

my question is: what, if any, are the constitutional or moral objections to making guns less accident prone?
The issue with "ardent gunners" is the slippery slope. ANY regulation of firearms is seen as the first step in confiscation. Obviously that's not rational, but that's what you have to deal with when it comes to this matter.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:24 pm

I guess you are right ...

so there is nothing we can do because whatever we do will be perceived as a dangerous precedent?

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:00 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:I guess you are right ...

so there is nothing we can do because whatever we do will be perceived as a dangerous precedent?
It needs to be market driven - gun owners wanting safety, so that they and their family are not put at additional risk due to their purchase. I suspect that there is a willing market out there, but that the NRA puts pressure on the manufacturers to not go that route. But of course I could be wrong on this.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:38 am

I googled `smart gun features` and found these: fire only when activated by an authorized user (fingerprint, etc.), (limiting) self-harm (no example/technology suggested), and gun thefts (GPS/other technology that tracks it to a different area).

These are fine – but what about sensors that prevent shooting a relative (facial recognition, mother-in-laws excepted?), or bullets that non-lethally explode on contact, or bullets that deliver a fast acting sleep inducement agent, or bullets that shift direction to an arm or leg, or shooter alcohol impairment analysis, or non-lethal targeted sound/microwave dispensers, etc., etc. It seems to me that there are a whole range of possible safety features that could make guns safer for the owner and their family, and yet provide the protection an owner might want.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:09 am

There are plenty of ways to prevent unauthorized use of a weapon.

But in the standard as-scary-as-it-gets scenario of a home invasion, supposedly you might want your small kid to use your gun - though of course you wouldn't normally.

In other words, those against regulation will always find a scenario in which safety would be a drawback.

Which puts us back to square one: if for pro-gunners any 'good' use of a gun trumps a hundred accidents, then we will never get such people to agree to safety measures.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:21 am

I agree with you on that - but if I wanted to buy these features, it shouldn`t bother the NRA or anyone else for that matter.

I recall that the US Army tanks now have `friendlies` sensors that warn if the gunner is about to fire on a comrade. Maybe it doesn`t prevent, but rather just warn, which might be a feature that is marketable.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:21 am

It would let people know when they're about to shoot a family member, if the person had the sensor on and the shooter actually gave a {!#%@} who he was shooting at.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:25 am

but what about my constitutional right to 'accidentally' shoot my mother-in-law bceasue I mistook gher for a burglar?

I foresee opposition from those who fear being put on the spot for not opting for safety features, like the anti-vaxers feeling 'unjustly' persecuted when their kids become ill.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:31 am

ElectricMonk wrote:but what about my constitutional right to 'accidentally' shoot my mother-in-law bceasue I mistook gher for a burglar?

I foresee opposition from those who fear being put on the spot for not opting for safety features, like the anti-vaxers feeling 'unjustly' persecuted when their kids become ill.
That opposition already exists - but really shouldn`t matter if a market is there.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 am

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:38 am

Thanks - I had read that earlier this week. Not sure if it was a link somewhere here, or if I came across it while skimming. Anyway, a good article.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:08 pm

good article, thanks Gawd!

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:09 pm

He has at least one more that would be of interest, you can find it easily enough I think.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Ldelandy » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:43 am

When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:38 am

Ldelandy wrote:When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.
In this case - does it matter which end of the gun you are holding?

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:52 am

TJrandom wrote:
Ldelandy wrote:When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.
In this case - does it matter which end of the gun you are holding?
Never point a gun at something you wouldn't shoot. If the gun is pointing at yourself you have to decide.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:58 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Ldelandy wrote:When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.
In this case - does it matter which end of the gun you are holding?
Never point a gun at something you wouldn't shoot. If the gun is pointing at yourself you have to decide.
If someone points a gun at me, I get to decide? :?

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:43 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Ldelandy wrote:When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.
In this case - does it matter which end of the gun you are holding?
Never point a gun at something you wouldn't shoot. If the gun is pointing at yourself you have to decide.
If someone points a gun at me, I get to decide? :?
Are you doing the pointing? In the red highlight above you are holding the gun, not "someone".
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:54 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Ldelandy wrote:When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.
In this case - does it matter which end of the gun you are holding?
Never point a gun at something you wouldn't shoot. If the gun is pointing at yourself you have to decide.
If someone points a gun at me, I get to decide? :?
Are you doing the pointing? In the red highlight above you are holding the gun, not "someone".
Naw... that you, was not me. :) I know better.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:25 pm

If someone wants a gun for self defense, make it one that fires rubber bullets only. While a rubber bullet at close range can be lethal, mostly it is not.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:34 pm

Yes..............and at close range..... it should be lethal...... or more likely should........if the target is not a family member and so forth.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:27 pm

You don't need a gun for self-defense, you need nerve and will. I can kill a man with a rolled up newspaper. It's quiet-like and you don't get the nervous looked those nutters who carry rifles into Wal-mart get.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:51 pm

Gawd: I never thought the First Amendment could protect us so directly...... but you are right. Can also heat your house in the winter.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:01 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:You don't need a gun for self-defense, you need nerve and will. I can kill a man with a rolled up newspaper. It's quiet-like and you don't get the nervous looked those nutters who carry rifles into Wal-mart get.
Offtopic... but I found the obvious reason you provide a link to the Wolf Center - under the best place to work....
Free Anheuser-Busch beer will be provided to guests over age 21.


But good to see that they do good work, in spite of providing piss poor beer, even if it is free. :D :D

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:12 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:You don't need a gun for self-defense, you need nerve and will. I can kill a man with a rolled up newspaper. It's quiet-like and you don't get the nervous looked those nutters who carry rifles into Wal-mart get.
Offtopic... but I found the obvious reason you provide a link to the Wolf Center - under the best place to work....
Free Anheuser-Busch beer will be provided to guests over age 21.


But good to see that they do good work, in spite of providing piss poor beer, even if it is free. :D :D
PM sent.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:21 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:You don't need a gun for self-defense, you need nerve and will. I can kill a man with a rolled up newspaper. It's quiet-like and you don't get the nervous looked those nutters who carry rifles into Wal-mart get.
Offtopic... but I found the obvious reason you provide a link to the Wolf Center - under the best place to work....
Free Anheuser-Busch beer will be provided to guests over age 21.


But good to see that they do good work, in spite of providing piss poor beer, even if it is free. :D :D
PM sent.
Better a PM than a Bush.... :)

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:54 pm

It's Busch, not "bush". I happen to enjoy "bush". ;)
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:57 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:It's Busch, not "bush". I happen to enjoy "bush". ;)
Sooo that`s why you didn`t send me a bush? :oops:

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:18 am

TJrandom wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:It's Busch, not "bush". I happen to enjoy "bush". ;)
Sooo that`s why you didn`t send me a bush? :oops:
I'll send you a Bushman right away. You can hunt kudu together.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Frank Hoffman » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:21 am

TJrandom wrote:It needs to be market driven - gun owners wanting safety, so that they and their family are not put at additional risk due to their purchase. I suspect that there is a willing market out there, but that the NRA puts pressure on the manufacturers to not go that route.
Yep...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /13551659/

From the article:
"The NRA is the leading obstacle to bringing a smart gun to market, he says. And some would say, according to Sebastian, the NRA has legitimate concerns about a 2002 New Jersey law. That law states that once there is a proven and reliable smart-gun technology — as determined by the New Jersey attorney general — that within three years all new model handguns sold in New Jersey must incorporate it. But in addition — and this is where the debate enters a Catch 22 loop — before the New Jersey attorney general will even make that determination, the smart gun must first be commercially available in the U.S. In other words, a gun cannot be deemed a "smart gun" until a licensed dealer is willing to sell it. (and) ...Currently, there is not a gun dealer in the U.S. willing to offer a smart gun for sale."

So the law actually helps the NRA withhold smart guns from consumers. And in disagreement with a negative opinion in the article, I (as you do), clearly see a market for them.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Aztexan » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:06 am

The NRA really stands for Non-Restricted Area.
Or the Acronym Reversal Nation.
Either way both groups seek to confuse us.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Frank Hoffman » Sun May 01, 2016 8:21 pm

1 May 2016 -- It appears the US is actually getting closer to having gun safety technology be available for purchase... even over the kicking and screaming of the NRA.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStor ... e-38795921

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun May 01, 2016 9:18 pm

What is really needed is a chip placed in the brain of the person who might use the gun.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:07 pm

A question for people who keep guns handy and ready for instant use: Do you keep explosives primed and ready to detonate on your coffee table? Under the cushions on your divan? On the night stand next to your bed? If not, why not?
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:17 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:A question for people who keep guns handy and ready for instant use: Do you keep explosives primed and ready to detonate on your coffee table? Under the cushions on your divan? On the night stand next to your bed? If not, why not?
I've never been attacked by an open pit mine nor an impending railway tunnel.

I may be missing the gist of your post.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:58 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:A question for people who keep guns handy and ready for instant use: Do you keep explosives primed and ready to detonate on your coffee table? Under the cushions on your divan? On the night stand next to your bed? If not, why not?
I've never been attacked by an open pit mine nor an impending railway tunnel.

I may be missing the gist of your post.
Guns ready for use and explosives ready for use are in the same category.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:12 pm

Keeping a gun in the home for self defense is ridiculous. There are 100 home invasion murders each year in the USA, and about 320 people who drown in their own bathtub. For safety, I recommend that everyone taking a bath put on a life jacket first.

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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:18 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Keeping a gun in the home for self defense is ridiculous. There are 100 home invasion murders each year in the USA, and about 320 people who drown in their own bathtub. For safety, I recommend that everyone taking a bath put on a life jacket first.
NRA propaganda and "they're my toys, damn it!" combine to produce a resolute refusal to recognize reality.
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Re: Gun Safety

Post by Gord » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:50 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:There are 100 home invasion murders each year in the USA, and about 320 people who drown in their own bathtub.
Coooool. Where'd you get your stats?
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