MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

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MikeN
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MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by MikeN » Wed May 01, 2019 2:59 pm

"“In Venezuela, gun ownership is not something that is open to everybody. So if the military have the guns, they have the power.”

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by gorgeous » Wed May 01, 2019 3:06 pm

yeah...and the lib socialists in u.s. want us to become venezuela...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 01, 2019 3:11 pm

Gorgon said something stupid, I imagine.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by landrew » Wed May 01, 2019 3:39 pm

The argument is moot. When was the last time a bunch of gun-toting citizens overthrew their government?
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 01, 2019 4:09 pm

Oh, come on! Good old boys with guns can take down the US Army. This is why the Constitution was originally written to ensure that REAL AMERICANS™ would always have the right to bear nuclear weapons.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gord » Wed May 01, 2019 4:54 pm

landrew wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:39 pm
The argument is moot. When was the last time a bunch of gun-toting citizens overthrew their government?
But I seen it happen on the tee veeeee. :|
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 01, 2019 5:26 pm

The Wolverines overthrew the legally established government of the Socialist Republic of Wyoming. And they were just school kids.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gord » Sat May 04, 2019 2:57 pm

Well, yeah, but come on! They had members from a highly trained football team and backing from the USAF!

Besides, it was Colorado. Wyoming wouldn't have worked as well because there wouldn't be enough Coloradoans living there. Jeez, learn your WWIII history already!
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat May 04, 2019 3:20 pm

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gord » Sat May 04, 2019 5:20 pm

"You're soaking in it."
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon May 06, 2019 2:42 am

As I have pointed out several times, taking up arms against a tyrant just makes things worse. Look at Syria! There have been numerous examples of peaceful action achieving amazing results, like Martin Luther King, and Mahatma Gandhi. But armed rebellion is behind so many of the very, very nasty civil wars which kill people by the hundreds of thousands. I regard anyone who promotes armed rebellion as committing crimes against humanity.

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by landrew » Mon May 06, 2019 3:21 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 2:42 am
As I have pointed out several times, taking up arms against a tyrant just makes things worse. Look at Syria! There have been numerous examples of peaceful action achieving amazing results, like Martin Luther King, and Mahatma Gandhi. But armed rebellion is behind so many of the very, very nasty civil wars which kill people by the hundreds of thousands. I regard anyone who promotes armed rebellion as committing crimes against humanity.
That's an insult to everyone who fought to defeat the nazis.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by MikeN » Mon May 06, 2019 4:05 am

Gandhi's effort worked because India was being run by the British. At the same time, Gandhi wrote a letter to Hitler calling on him to be more spiritual, and advised Indians not to take up arms against the Japanese should they invade, but to resist non-violently.

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon May 06, 2019 4:09 am

Armed resistance without outside support willing to fight themselves usually leads to more, not less suffering.

Strategic civil disobedience, clever bureaucratic sand in the gears of power, etc. can help a lot without creating an albi for further crackdowns by the state.
In Nazi Germany and the occupied countries, many people ran clever scams to help others flee without shooting anybody.

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon May 06, 2019 4:45 am

Fighting the Nazis was a different situation. I was talking of armed rebellion against a tyrant, such as we saw in Syria. It is definitely not a good idea. As electric monk said, there are better ways.

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon May 06, 2019 10:20 am

The gun culture only thinks of ways to use their guns and thus justify their expenditures.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by landrew » Mon May 06, 2019 12:37 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:45 am
Fighting the Nazis was a different situation. I was talking of armed rebellion against a tyrant, such as we saw in Syria. It is definitely not a good idea. As electric monk said, there are better ways.
George Washington might have disagreed.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gord » Mon May 06, 2019 4:41 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:37 pm
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:45 am
Fighting the Nazis was a different situation. I was talking of armed rebellion against a tyrant, such as we saw in Syria. It is definitely not a good idea. As electric monk said, there are better ways.
George Washington might have disagreed.
You can thank France for your freedom. The Bourbon monarchy had a major role in the Revolution.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by landrew » Mon May 06, 2019 5:04 pm

Gord wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:41 pm
landrew wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 12:37 pm
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 4:45 am
Fighting the Nazis was a different situation. I was talking of armed rebellion against a tyrant, such as we saw in Syria. It is definitely not a good idea. As electric monk said, there are better ways.
George Washington might have disagreed.
You can thank France for your freedom. The Bourbon monarchy had a major role in the Revolution.
The Americans were the authors of the American Revolution, although they wisely chose to use France's inherent animosity towards the British to their own advantage. Don't think for a second that France didn't have designs on snatching back America for itself, were it not for the internal turmoil that led to the French revolution and the subsequent Napoleonic wars in Europe.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon May 06, 2019 8:29 pm

The American war of independance was a classic case of a disaster, until France entered. Britain was a super power and had a large standing army of well trained and equipped soldiers. When the colonists rebelled, British soldiers whipped their arses left, right and center. It was heading for a horrible armed rebellion disaster, with megadeaths and collapse of the economy, which is normal. Then the second super power dived in and Britain had to pull back.

Armed rebels cannot rely on super powers to help them. It might be like Syria where the super power (Russia) supports the tyrant.

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by landrew » Sat May 11, 2019 9:38 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 8:29 pm
The American war of independance was a classic case of a disaster, until France entered. Britain was a super power and had a large standing army of well trained and equipped soldiers. When the colonists rebelled, British soldiers whipped their arses left, right and center. It was heading for a horrible armed rebellion disaster, with megadeaths and collapse of the economy, which is normal. Then the second super power dived in and Britain had to pull back.

Armed rebels cannot rely on super powers to help them. It might be like Syria where the super power (Russia) supports the tyrant.
France did not participate in the American revolution directly. She had just been defeated by the British in the Seven Years War in 1763, and couldn't afford to re-engage with the British. The Dutch and the Spanish also helped the Americans, but only Spain declared war on the British.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat May 11, 2019 11:04 pm

True up to a point, landrew. But only up to a point. The French involvement in the war was decisive. The Dutch and Spanish helped, too. But Britain pulled out due to being isolated and facing four enemies.

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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 12, 2019 12:26 pm

The French fleet blocked the reinforcement effort of the British.

"De Grasse concurred with Rochambeau and subsequently sent a dispatch indicating that he would reach the Chesapeake at the end of August but that agreements with the Spanish meant he could only stay until mid-October. The arrival of his dispatches prompted the Franco-American army to begin a march for Virginia. De Grasse reached the Chesapeake as planned and his troops were sent to assist Lafayette's army in the blockade of Cornwallis's army. A British fleet sent to confront de Grasse's control of the Chesapeake was defeated by the French on September 5 at the Battle of the Chesapeake and the Newport fleet delivered the French siege train to complete the allied military arrival. The Siege of Yorktown and following surrender by Cornwallis on October 19 were decisive in ending major hostilities in North America.[7]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in ... ionary_War
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by landrew » Sun May 12, 2019 3:21 pm

"Franco-American army" is stretching things a bit. The French regular army withdrew from most of the continent after France lost the French-Indian war in 1763. They left behind thousands of French-speaking country-folk, many who were mixed race, and had previously fought the British on behalf of France. France's participation in the American revolt was significant, but as covert as possible, to avoid another direct war with Britain.
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Re: MSNBC recognizes 2nd amendment

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 12, 2019 5:36 pm

And the troops in Continental uniform were ipso facto Americans. :eyeroll:
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