Electric Cars

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:04 am

ftl: "They died a natural death – a free market death." //// Ha, ha....there is no free market. Never has been, never will be. It didn't take long for horses to be banned from roadways and for mass transit to be bought up and torn down. Where is the free market in that? Where is the free market in keeping the truth of AGW out of the public limelight?

There is no free market. Only a competition of vested interests out slimming the others. When the gubment puts its boot on the market as they always do, and can't avoid, we can only hope its on the right side. Going green is certainly the right side. Other issues are deminimus.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by JO 753 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:03 pm

TJrandom wrote:Plus, our current car may last that long.
I can fix that for you. :)
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:38 pm

JO 753 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Plus, our current car may last that long.
I can fix that for you. :)
Ah, what a nice guy! :roll:

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:28 am

I like the sound of the Chevy Volt. It's got about 85 km range pure electric, charges in 4 hours on 240v. Switches seamlessly to petrol after that, uses 5.5 L/100km, with a total range of 700 km. The batteries are supposed to be sturdy, too. Lasting 200,000+ km.

Range is important to me because I live in the middle of {!#%@}, and I like to go for long country drives.

The only downsides are: I can't afford it, they're not available in Australia, and you can't take the lid off.

Otherwise I'd be all over it.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:39 am

noticed this topic was here in this forum SCAMS first.

same title and same forum .

anyway , driving in a snow storm on a freeway today - I know I would not want an only electric vehicle .
hybrid yes

would be a lot better if society had not been forced to move away from trains and subways .
each individual vehicle has to be constantly controlled - there were several wrecks and a huge back up.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:40 am

The Toyota Prius checks all the boxes.
Except one:
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 am

Prius isn't a real hybrid. It's electric assist. It's basically electric first gear to get you rolling, then the petrol engine cuts-in.

That's helpful in a stop-start traffic jam. And saves a little bit of juice letting the engine shutdown when it's not needed, and overcoming the initial momentum to start rolling. But once you're up to speed, it's all petrol.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:01 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:39 am
would be a lot better if society had not been forced to move away from trains and subways .
Then you'll be happy to note that my primary transition from "{!#%@}" (country) to "big smoke" (city) is via a hybrid rail.

Two huge diesel V8 engines per carriage that power electric motors that turn the wheels. And 70 seats per carriage. (If you're lucky enough to get one... I elbow grandmas in the guts and push wheelchair kids off the platform to get a seat.)

I certainly agree that mass transit is more efficient. That's why I've always bought houses within a drunken late night one km stagger of a train station.

Plus schools and shops.

A hundred years ago some very bright people planned this city. They planned it for at least 100 years ahead.

Without computers, which is {!#%@} amazing, they mapped all the geography, and laid the plans for a century of expansion. All the transport, all the parks, all the water, all the sewers, all the flood zones for a thousand years, all the farms, all the wharves and industrial zones, according to the geometry and weather.

And then built it all with shovels, picks and wheelbarrows. Dynamite helped a bit. :)

Even with computers, these days, politicians and civic designers couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:19 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 am
Prius isn't a real hybrid. It's electric assist. It's basically electric first gear to get you rolling, then the petrol engine cuts-in.

That's helpful in a stop-start traffic jam. And saves a little bit of juice letting the engine shutdown when it's not needed, and overcoming the initial momentum to start rolling. But once you're up to speed, it's all petrol.
That's not true. The Prius is a full hybrid. There's no first gear, it's a continuously-variable transmission system that consists of an electric motor coupled to a gasoline engine through a differential gear. The two motors are continually sharing the load and changing the drive ratio. The electric motor uses the power regenerated from deceleration and braking. The gasoline engine uses an Atkinson Cycle which is 25% more fuel-efficient than a conventional engine.

Nearly all other hybrids, including the Chevy Volt consist of a gasoline engine running a generator, which charges the battery, which drives the wheels. They are far less efficient than a Prius, but they lie about their figures a lot more.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by JO 753 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:58 pm

That figurez! GM iz a habitual scammer. It iz larjly responsible for the embarrassingly crude state uv public tranz in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_M ... conspiracy

Then therez the leded gas thing. Seriously - iz GM owned by The Devil?
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:04 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:58 pm
That figurez! GM iz a habitual scammer. It iz larjly responsible for the embarrassingly crude state uv public tranz in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_M ... conspiracy

Then therez the leded gas thing. Seriously - iz GM owned by The Devil?
If you saw the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car, they make a convincing case that GM and others deliberately bought into electric car technology so they could shut it down. They succeeded for awhile. Now, it looks like they are taking a run at Tesla, undercutting the price in an effort to drive them out of business.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:06 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:19 pm
Major Malfunction wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 am
Prius isn't a real hybrid. It's electric assist. It's basically electric first gear to get you rolling, then the petrol engine cuts-in.

That's helpful in a stop-start traffic jam. And saves a little bit of juice letting the engine shutdown when it's not needed, and overcoming the initial momentum to start rolling. But once you're up to speed, it's all petrol.
That's not true. The Prius is a full hybrid. There's no first gear, it's a continuously-variable transmission system that consists of an electric motor coupled to a gasoline engine through a differential gear. The two motors are continually sharing the load and changing the drive ratio. The electric motor uses the power regenerated from deceleration and braking. The gasoline engine uses an Atkinson Cycle which is 25% more fuel-efficient than a conventional engine.

Nearly all other hybrids, including the Chevy Volt consist of a gasoline engine running a generator, which charges the battery, which drives the wheels. They are far less efficient than a Prius, but they lie about their figures a lot more.
Here comes landrew with his {!#%@} endless BS semantics and obfuscation...

He could power the entire world forever with his methane and circular logic.

I suppose I asked for it...

So I'm just gonna say, my car has an alternator. And a battery. Which technically makes my car a hybrid according to your definition.

*drives away slowly*
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:06 pm

So I'm just gonna say, my car has an alternator. And a battery. Which technically makes my car a hybrid according to your definition.

*drives away slowly*
Well, you are starting to argue as landrew does all too often, but not THIS time. I don't see any definitions being put forth but landrew linked to the Prius being "full hybrid" as described.

The BS appears to be spreaded by yourself on this issue. Without definition: hybrid does not include any car with a battery and alternator.

Avoid the general truth of a matter clouding the specifics of any given situation.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:22 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:19 pm
The gasoline engine uses an Atkinson Cycle which is 25% more fuel-efficient than a conventional engine.
I had never heard of the Atkinson engine before. I found that most interesting. Wonderful what engineers have and can do.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by JO 753 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 pm

"Dont be mean peepl. You dont need to be mean. Kuz remember, no matter wer you go, there you are."

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:42 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Well, you are starting to argue as landrew does all too often, but not THIS time. I don't see any definitions being put forth but landrew linked to the Prius being "full hybrid" as described.

The BS appears to be spreaded by yourself on this issue. Without definition: hybrid does not include any car with a battery and alternator.

Avoid the general truth of a matter clouding the specifics of any given situation.
You don't know landrew, padawan.

We have a long history.

I branded landrew the True Skeptic(TM), and it stuck.

It's even a rank. Because everyone here knows he's fulla {!#%@}.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:47 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:42 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Well, you are starting to argue as landrew does all too often, but not THIS time. I don't see any definitions being put forth but landrew linked to the Prius being "full hybrid" as described.

The BS appears to be spreaded by yourself on this issue. Without definition: hybrid does not include any car with a battery and alternator.

Avoid the general truth of a matter clouding the specifics of any given situation.
You don't know landrew, padawan.

We have a long history.

I branded landrew the True Skeptic(TM), and it stuck.

It's even a rank. Because everyone here knows he's fulla {!#%@}.
I don't talk much about skepticism anymore. Let sleeping dogs lie. I realized my mistake years ago.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:11 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:58 pm
Then therez the leded gas thing. Seriously
Funny story. I always drive cool old cars. And mostly catch trains.

So one time I needed petrol. I filled it up every three months about. There were literally spiderwebs every time I opened the fuel cap.

This time I pulled into the servo and was looking for the "leaded" pump. It had been so long that I didn't even know that line of fuel had been discontinued.

I went into the servo and said WTF?!? The guy was helpful and said older cars just need this little bottle for a few bucks.

It was a little bottle. But by crickey! That was sudden!

I kinda felt like it went in a bit too dry.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:20 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:47 pm
I don't talk much about skepticism anymore. Let sleeping dogs lie. I realized my mistake years ago.
You need to have your head pulled-in every now and then. And so do I.
Last edited by Major Malfunction on Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:20 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:42 pm


I branded landrew the True Skeptic(TM), and it stuck.

It's even a rank. Because everyone here knows he's fulla {!#%@}.
As stated, the generality true or not does not fit HERE: on THIS issue as stated. In fact, he is a forth coming on this issue as on any subject I've seen him post. Even a Link.

I mean: totally UNLIKE landrew in this post he is. You have to give credit where its due, or change will never come. and even if change never comes, at least giving credit removes yourself as part of the cause.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:27 pm

But you also have to understand that some people are beyond help.

Some people will take advantage of your good will.

Do you realise the forum you're on?
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:42 pm

MM: I'm not talking about landrew much at all, but rather ourselves. Is truth your guide.........or general animus?

I use Truth. Still make mistakes.......try not to make excuses for it.

always: a stretch goal.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:59 pm

Batteries that don't explode like a lithium bomb.

*yawn*
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by JO 753 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:06 pm

This time I pulled into the servo and was looking for the "leaded" pump. It had been so long that I didn't even know that line of fuel had been discontinued.
:shock:
How long ago wuz that?!

We havent had leded gasoline here sins the 70z!

The only car I ever owned that suppozedly needed it wuz a 1969 Chrysler Imperial. I had to get premium and add octane booster, but never added any led.

Haf the excuse for led iz that the valv seats in the older enjinz will be ruined without it. Bogus. False. Untrue for all practical purposez. I put 60,000 milez on it. It wuz sumwhere at 180,000 wen the timing gear finally gave out. Unrelated to unleded gas.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:22 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:58 pm
That figurez! GM iz a habitual scammer. It iz larjly responsible for the embarrassingly crude state uv public tranz in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_M ... conspiracy

Then therez the leded gas thing. Seriously - iz GM owned by The Devil?
simple fact of life - money / power is the root of all evil ; so yea big business / auto industry is

wish I could link to a story by the Detroit free press 3/4/2017 by Paul Egan .
new governor slogan is FIX THE DAM ROADS - I was thinking about how much that would cost and they should do a study .
amazed they are doing exactly that. roads are built to last just 20 years .
could try for 30 or 50 but the cost would double . still doubt they could handle the new weather pattern / polar vortex

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:39 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:06 pm
This time I pulled into the servo and was looking for the "leaded" pump. It had been so long that I didn't even know that line of fuel had been discontinued.
:shock:
How long ago wuz that?!

We havent had leded gasoline here sins the 70z!

The only car I ever owned that suppozedly needed it wuz a 1969 Chrysler Imperial. I had to get premium and add octane booster, but never added any led.

Haf the excuse for led iz that the valv seats in the older enjinz will be ruined without it. Bogus. False. Untrue for all practical purposez. I put 60,000 milez on it. It wuz sumwhere at 180,000 wen the timing gear finally gave out. Unrelated to unleded gas.

I had a ford torino that I think valves burned out because of unleaded gas that was just introduced / early seventies.
read a story that explained valve stems ? were designed to be lubricated by the lead.

did a search on racing fuel - surprised that piston engines planes use / or used leaded gas - Avgas
phased out 2018 ?
if I had a plane using Avgas - would not want to switch

SUNOCO has a website that sells leaded gas

this thread lead me to videos on street racing and wrecks .
might be #1 reason to have rail as the main form of transport .
leave the roads to the rich .
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:59 pm

Electric cars make sense.

As I have said before, I am a bit cynical about so called renewable energy. Solar cells do not last forever. They have a service life of about 35 years, half that of large power stations, such as nuclear. Another cost that is generally ignored by solar energy enthusiasts is the cost of cleaning them. Which is not insignificant. But the biggest problem is that the sun is not available at night, meaning that humungous energy storage is also needed, which is very expensive.

I do not like wind power, either. I regard wind towers as incredibly ugly. I did a trip some years ago by train from Amsterdam to Berlin, and we saw wind towers lining every skyline all the way. The exact opposite of eye candy. Yuk ! Britain, last summer, had a wind drought, with 40% less wind, causing it to burn a lot more coal.

I think nuclear power should be considered seriously. It has the best safety record , generates no greenhouse gases, does not harm the environment (the area around Chernobyl is now Europe's foremost nature reserve), and if we include thorium, there is enough fuel available to supply humanity's energy needs for the next 10,000 years, while it pumps out electricity 24/365 with almost total reliability.

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:02 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:39 pm
JO 753 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:06 pm
This time I pulled into the servo and was looking for the "leaded" pump. It had been so long that I didn't even know that line of fuel had been discontinued.
:shock:
How long ago wuz that?!

We havent had leded gasoline here sins the 70z!

The only car I ever owned that suppozedly needed it wuz a 1969 Chrysler Imperial. I had to get premium and add octane booster, but never added any led.

Haf the excuse for led iz that the valv seats in the older enjinz will be ruined without it. Bogus. False. Untrue for all practical purposez. I put 60,000 milez on it. It wuz sumwhere at 180,000 wen the timing gear finally gave out. Unrelated to unleded gas.

I had a ford torino that I think valves burned out because of unleaded gas that was just introduced / early seventies.
read a story that explained valve stems ? were designed to be lubricated by the lead.

did a search on racing fuel - surprised that piston engines planes use / or used leaded gas - Avgas
phased out 2018 ?
if I had a plane using Avgas - would not want to switch

SUNOCO has a website that sells leaded gas
IIRC, early valves were made of steel, which burned out fairly rapidly under the heat and corrosiveness of exhaust gases. It was discovered in the 1920s I believe that adding tetra-ethyl lead, which is a clear fluid, to gasoline coated the valve surfaces, protecting them from erosion. I believe that valves made of an alloy called stellite began to appear in automotive engines in the 1960s, which are wear-resistant to the corrosive effects of unleaded fuel.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:05 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:59 pm
Electric cars make sense.
Makes sense especially when you consider that it takes 175 kilowatts of burning fossil fuel to propel 3 tons of metal down the highway, just to give one person a ride to the next town.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:44 pm

I've had my B13 about 12 years. It's a classic now. So the N12 I must've sold about 2007.

Before those little sportsters, I drove a '77 Ford XC GT wagon. With a brand new 302 V8 and quad carbies. And all new everything. I fixed it up real nice. It was the SHWAGN. The Shaggin' wagon.

It ran no less than 20 litres per hundred.

It had the quad headlights, bonnette scoops, rear spoiler, dual-action tailgate, 12-slotter chrome 8" wheels and dual sports exhaust.

It went, blob blob blob blob blob blob, in stereo, at idle. And it could go RAAAGH! if you put the peddle down. And pedestrians hundreds of metres away would flee for their lives.

I installed LPG, tinted the windows, put a nice quad stereo, a bed, curtains.

It was fantastic for backing up at a drive-in movie. Or for camping. Or for parties. Private. Or just sleeping it off.

Then some idiot ran a red light and I T-boned the {!#%@}.

That was the end of the SHWAGN. I sold it for a few hunnert bucks.

I hear now they're worth tens of thousands.

Sad day for me, I guess.

I spent so much money on that car. But at the time I needed a place to shag.

And I knew I'd never drive a V8 like that, ever again.

Worth it.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:40 pm

looked it up - found a 77 xc Fairmont 4.9L GS wagon

GT or GS ?

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by JO 753 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 am

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAAC ... 66&bih=629

Wuz it like the family wagon in Mad Max 1 ?
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:06 am

Major Malfunction wrote:. I fixed it up real nice. It was the SHWAGN. The Shaggin' wagon.
I remember you! You burned me off at the green light in Melbourne once. You had two slogans painted on your car:

"If this car is rockin...don't bother knockin"

"Don't laugh. Your teenage daughter is inside"

:D

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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:04 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:40 pm
looked it up - found a 77 xc Fairmont 4.9L GS wagon

GT or GS ?
You're right. GS.
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Major Malfunction
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:14 am

JO 753 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 am
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAAC ... 66&bih=629

Wuz it like the family wagon in Mad Max 1 ?
Max had the panelvan. My mate had the panelvan. His dad rebuilt the engine and fitted-out the back with a huge stereo, shag pile carpet, mirrors along the walls, recessed downlights, and a sheepskin rug.

We used to tear-up the streets, go rally racing on the dirt roads, camp with our girlfriends, and chat on our CBs. Man, good times.

He smashed it into a pole.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:15 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:06 am
Major Malfunction wrote:. I fixed it up real nice. It was the SHWAGN. The Shaggin' wagon.
I remember you! You burned me off at the green light in Melbourne once. You had two slogans painted on your car:

"If this car is rockin...don't bother knockin"

"Don't laugh. Your teenage daughter is inside"

:D
Sounds like me. :)
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by JO 753 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:40 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:39 pm
I had a ford torino that I think valves burned out because of unleaded gas that was just introduced / early seventies.
read a story that explained valve stems ? were designed to be lubricated by the lead.
The idea iz that the led providez a microscopic layer uv lube & cushion between the valvez and the valve seats. The valve stemz are lubricated by the enjin oil, so no need or benefit from the led in the stream uv air & fuel and exhaust fumez blowing thru the openingz.

The suppozed nesesity iz only in older enjinez that did not hav a hardened ring inserted into the iron casting az the valve seat - that the plain iron woud wear away from the hardened valve hitting it without the led.

Maybe in very hi performans applicationz, like aircraft. BUT, if your application iz that critical, it duznt make sens to not pay extra for the hardened valv seats, kuz wut if you get no-led gas? Are you going to find out by falling out uv the sky? So the only justification iz to save a little money in manufacturing the enjinez.

Passenjer cars are not hi performans. They are cheap. Every corner that can be cut iz cut, especially back then. Anything Detroit coud get away with, they did. Not getting away with it wuz a measure uv redused salez numberz. The only time that gets overruled iz wen Unkl Skam forsez them to do sumthing more expensiv.

The real reazon for led wuz that its a cheap way to increase octane. Without checking, I recall there wuz sum guy back in the 20z or 30z hoo had a big stockpile uv led and a few palz running GM and that started the entire atrocious mess.

Sumtime in the 1950z a sientist trying to detrmin the aje uv the Earth coudnt do it kuz EVERYTHING wuz contaminated by led and he finally figured out it wuz all from the gasoline.

GM staved off the Govrment ban in court for more than 20 yirz. We are all a little stoopider and prone to dezeez just so GM coud make a little more profit. Not that Ford or Chrysler get a pass. Or the defunkt American car companyz or the forin companyz az far az I know.
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landrew
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:28 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:40 am

The real reazon for led wuz that its a cheap way to increase octane. Without checking, I recall there wuz sum guy back in the 20z or 30z hoo had a big stockpile uv led and a few palz running GM and that started the entire atrocious mess.
Adding tetraethyl lead was neither a cheap way to raise the octane number, nor is a higher octane number anything desirable for a regular engine. High octane fuel simply has a higher flashpoint temperature, so that it doesn't pre-ignite in high compression engines. Quality or performance has nothing to do with it in regular car engines.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by JO 753 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:12 pm

You just luv to argue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead

It makes me angry that led iz STILL in gasoline! You can alwayz count on the gubment to screw up, no matter how simple and obvious it iz to get it rite. And you can alwayz count on big biz to find a way to poizon everybody.
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Re: Electric Cars

Post by landrew » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:14 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:12 pm
You just luv to argue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead

It makes me angry that led iz STILL in gasoline! You can alwayz count on the gubment to screw up, no matter how simple and obvious it iz to get it rite. And you can alwayz count on big biz to find a way to poizon everybody.
Relax, it's not easy for lead to find its way into someone's body. A little bit of leaded gasoline here and there is no great peril to humankind. The four-letter word "lead" is still required for a great many useful purposes. It's not like a disease to be eradicated from the face of the earth.
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