The terrible threshold ...........

Read any good books lately?
nmblum88
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The terrible threshold ...........

Post by nmblum88 » Sat May 18, 2013 7:11 pm

Bernard Bailyn: The Barbarous Years: The Peopling of British North America: The Conflict of Civilizations, 1600-1675.

Dissecting the scene of the crime (s): greed driven, racial, religious.
Highly recommended... and not least for Canadians who refuse to acknowledge why and how no indigenous American can really distinguish between Canadians and any other Caucasians in North America.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by Gord » Sun May 19, 2013 8:18 am

nmblum wrote:... and not least for Canadians who refuse to acknowledge why and how no indigenous American can really distinguish between Canadians and any other Caucasians in North America.
Wait, what?? :heh: All the Métis I know can distinguish between Canadians and Americans just as well as any other other Canadian can. (I think that's because all the Métis I know are Canadians, too.)

Or are you not using the term "indigenous American" to mean "native American" which then means "native North American"? 'Cause if you're not, I don't know what "indigenous American" means...unless it just means "American-born", in which case...uh...hmm. "Americans can't distinguish between Canadians and Americans"?

Come to think of it, about half the Canadians I know aren't even Caucasian. It might even be less than half, I'd need to do a proper census. Although one or two of them might be half Caucasian, or quarter Caucasian. Or one-eighth Caucasian. (That's assuming I understand what "Caucasian" means in this context, as well.)

Oh, and in Canada, many natives prefer to be called Indians as a general category. I know this is considered racially insensitive to many Americans, but whatever. Our government has a Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, although name was officially changed to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada (for politically correct reasons that very few cared about) around two years ago. (The people I know still call it "Indian Affairs" and government officials just translate it in their heads for themselves.)

Wikipedia is having a huge language problem trying to accomodate all the non-American countries in North and South American that have natives. I remember a few years ago, before our Department of Indian Affairs had changed its name, some people were trying to edit it out of its own wikipedia article! That would be like editing out the word "white" from an article on the White House! "We should call it the Caucasian House, it's politically correct!" :lol:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

nmblum88
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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by nmblum88 » Sun May 19, 2013 7:33 pm

Gord wrote:
nmblum wrote:... and not least for Canadians who refuse to acknowledge why and how no indigenous American can really distinguish between Canadians and any other Caucasians in North America.
Wait, what?? :heh: All the Métis I know can distinguish between Canadians and Americans just as well as any other other Canadian can. (I think that's because all the Métis I know are Canadians, too.)

Or are you not using the term "indigenous American" to mean "native American" which then means "native North American"? 'Cause if you're not, I don't know what "indigenous American" means...unless it just means "American-born", in which case...uh...hmm. "Americans can't distinguish between Canadians and Americans"?

Come to think of it, about half the Canadians I know aren't even Caucasian. It might even be less than half, I'd need to do a proper census. Although one or two of them might be half Caucasian, or quarter Caucasian. Or one-eighth Caucasian. (That's assuming I understand what "Caucasian" means in this context, as well.)

Oh, and in Canada, many natives prefer to be called Indians as a general category. I know this is considered racially insensitive to many Americans, but whatever. Our government has a Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, although name was officially changed to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada (for politically correct reasons that very few cared about) around two years ago. (The people I know still call it "Indian Affairs" and government officials just translate it in their heads for themselves.)

Wikipedia is having a huge language problem trying to accomodate all the non-American countries in North and South American that have natives. I remember a few years ago, before our Department of Indian Affairs had changed its name, some people were trying to edit it out of its own wikipedia article! That would be like editing out the word "white" from an article on the White House! "We should call it the Caucasian House, it's politically correct!" :lol:
Maybe funny... not for me to judge.
But Gord, I'm not sure what you are asking me to respond to here.
1) I specifically said "NORTH AMERICAN," and,
2) As far as I know, indigenous, and "native," even "original" are accepted synonyms.

If you have a quarrel with either statement, please let me know, so that I can- should you wish to continue the conversation- rephrase my précis of the author's intent.


NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by Hex » Sun May 19, 2013 11:44 pm

For the record I'm Metis so Natives and Caucasians can hate me equally.

Seriously though, this is from my perspective only, but all my Native/Indian friends don't care one way or another as to how they are referred to.

The concern comes from the guilt of white America and their political correctness. It's funny when political correctness comes around, they don't actually ask, the people they are forcing their agenda on, what they think. Or, just listen to the vocal minority. In this case it was never challenged because the majority didn't care.
Spoiler:
  TOYNBEE IDEA
IN KUBRICK'S 2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER
 


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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by Gord » Mon May 20, 2013 2:31 pm

nmblum wrote:...If you have a quarrel with either statement, please let me know, so that I can- should you wish to continue the conversation- rephrase my précis of the author's intent.
Okie dokie! :mrgreen:
1) I specifically said "NORTH AMERICAN,"
Did not did not!

You said specifically "indigenous American" and "Canadians and any other Caucasians in North America". :neener:

So, nyah.
2) As far as I know, indigenous, and "native," even "original" are accepted synonyms.
But not accepted by everyone to mean the same thing. For instance, I'm an indigenous Canadian (since I originate in and am characteristic of a particular region of Canada), but not an aboriginal, and although I am a native Canadian I am not considered a Native Canadian.

The words get all twisted up because they have different meanings in different situations. The more accurate people try to be in one situation, the more disparate the meanings become overall.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon May 20, 2013 3:37 pm

Gord wrote:
nmblum wrote:...If you have a quarrel with either statement, please let me know, so that I can- should you wish to continue the conversation- rephrase my précis of the author's intent.
Okie dokie! :mrgreen:
1) I specifically said "NORTH AMERICAN,"
Did not did not!

You said specifically "indigenous American" and "Canadians and any other Caucasians in North America". :neener:

So, nyah.
2) As far as I know, indigenous, and "native," even "original" are accepted synonyms.
But not accepted by everyone to mean the same thing. For instance, I'm an indigenous Canadian (since I originate in and am characteristic of a particular region of Canada), but not an aboriginal, and although I am a native Canadian I am not considered a Native Canadian.

The words get all twisted up because they have different meanings in different situations. The more accurate people try to be in one situation, the more disparate the meanings become overall.
You might say that the nomenclature has become an act of disparation.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

nmblum88
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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by nmblum88 » Mon May 20, 2013 4:23 pm

Gord wrote:
nmblum wrote:...If you have a quarrel with either statement, please let me know, so that I can- should you wish to continue the conversation- rephrase my précis of the author's intent.
Okie dokie! :mrgreen:
1) I specifically said "NORTH AMERICAN,"
Did not did not!

You said specifically "indigenous American" and "Canadians and any other Caucasians in North America". :neener:

So, nyah.
2) As far as I know, indigenous, and "native," even "original" are accepted synonyms.
But not accepted by everyone to mean the same thing. For instance, I'm an indigenous Canadian (since I originate in and am characteristic of a particular region of Canada), but not an aboriginal, and although I am a native Canadian I am not considered a Native Canadian.

The words get all twisted up because they have different meanings in different situations. The more accurate people try to be in one situation, the more disparate the meanings become overall.
You are a native Canadian by birth in an established (English speaking, Caucasian) nation in the Western Hemisphere called Canada, a state governed as a parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy, with Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain, as its head of state.
Which is essentially the focus of the book under discussion...

You are not however, autochthonous a member of a tribe, or nation, or peoples, INDIGENOUS to that land mass before the White man arrived to plant his flags, and declare ownership of the land.

However you are certainly free to belabor the point.
Re-identifying ourselves is what our common history has, to a large extent been about: who we were and who we are now, AND why.



NMB,
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by Gord » Mon May 20, 2013 7:21 pm

And that's why I'm just a dweeb on a messageboard. :mrgreen:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: The terrible threshold ...........

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon May 20, 2013 8:09 pm

Gord wrote:And that's why I'm just a dweeb on a massage board. :mrgreen:
FIFY :mrgreen:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.