Mysteries of the mind.....

Read any good books lately?
nmblum88
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Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by nmblum88 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:21 pm

Why are apostate Catholic artists (novelists/memoirists, playwrights, painters, musicians, even journalists ) by and large, so much more interesting, lively, intent on the world of ideas, than so many others?
It can't all be blamed on the potheen.
Anyone have any ideas?

Because few writers in any language convert as intensely and as movingly about disillusionment, and the pain of separation from one's roots as to the Irish bards... almost all brought up within the chilly animosities of their unique Roman Catholicism, the pull do defend it from an even crueler Protestant culture, and urge to exorcise it entirely.


It's a subject that has always interested me, and it occurred to me again during the wee hours, and until just now, as I finished yet another work by Com Toibin, "Brooklyn," followed by 'The Testament of Mary," an incredibly alert and fascinating rendition of the responses of Mary to the birth, fame, and death of one of her children."

Toibin is a grand l writer as are so many of his compatriots (listen to the excerpt from Finnegan's Wake" below) with their remarkable ear for the music inherent in language, and the desperate, dark side of human aspiration.: the longing to be a saint, even while doomed to be a sinner.
But there is no never a doubt that his sensibilities were honed, his wit sharpened by his grappling with the gaps between his early indoctrination, raised in the perverted loquaciousness of the Catholic litany of sin, .and the actualities of his life as a bright, introspective and insightful gay boy growing into a man.
And religions still can't be dismissed as important in a creative life, even when it is the bar that is struggled against in the making of the artist.

It would be interesting to hear from others who hear the rebellious, disillusioned with god, Irish voices in their heads... as with this, the ultimate Irish roisterer, wordsmith,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grJC1yu4KRw

Or this: Colm Toibin himself: ,explaining how he puts a story together: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGNyUEUSg4

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Gord » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:42 am

:pardon: They've suffered for their art?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by fromthehills » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:58 am

Norma wrote:Why are apostate Catholic artists (novelists/memoirists, playwrights, painters, musicians, even journalists ) by and large, so much more interesting, lively, intent on the world of ideas, than so many others?
It can't all be blamed on the potheen.
Anyone have any ideas?
I have a few ideas, but maybe none address it properly. Your list comprise artists. Therefore, they are more interesting to a broader audience than accountants. The Catholic accountant may not be any more interesting than a Protestant accountant. But next, it may be like the Blues artists. White boy from Boulder may not have the same soul as a Neville from New Orleans. Or if he did, may not be perceived as having it by a large audience. Then, education styles. The bloody Irish Catholic way of education focuses more on language. More than we do in the US, anyway. Well, the Brits are generally better at the use of the language than we are, but the Irish seem to trump that. I'm only speaking for the more famous orators and writers, mind you. And it's my opinion. I think many English speaking people use the language for function, for the pragmatic. The Irish seem to like to play with it, as you do, Norma. To write ( as I see it in my head) circles, instead of lines.

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Donnageddon » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:47 am

Tiberious Shatner's fiddled Rome groundless, expecting torte cake fingerlings undaunted, whilst Geothe's minion onions rhapsodied without rapture, without rupture, without flagrant deliciti, delicious sweetmeats and their barbed bedmates.

Perhaps it was drink?
My name is not Donna.

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by nmblum88 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:43 am

Donnageddon wrote:Tiberious Shatner's fiddled Rome groundless, expecting torte cake fingerlings undaunted, whilst Geothe's minion onions rhapsodied without rapture, without rupture, without flagrant deliciti, delicious sweetmeats and their barbed bedmates.

Perhaps it was drink?
Don't knock what you work so hard to try to get a computer to produce instead.
It can't be done... just as the monkey has never really come close to typing "Hamlet." (See below).
And no, I don't think was the poteen, then, or the warm beer now... either...
Martinis don't do it for stockbrokers, or accountants, or technicians or scientists,
It's definitely a gift of mind, and then of language.

Try to bring something like this our of your computer lab:

".....and the night we missed the boat at Algeciras the watchman going about serene with his lamp and O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets and the pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes."
.

Enjoy your evening.

NMB
Last edited by nmblum88 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Gord » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:59 am

nmblum wrote:Try to bring something like this our of your computer lab:
Oho! A challenge!!

Desolation, life, and love.
The old shore roughly loves the reef.
Never fight a tuna.
Life is a sunny mast.


http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/PoemGen/PoemGen.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cries
turkey
cranberries

trucks carve the valley
a pinwheeling pinball
coalesce/evaporate

each stellar night, the sounds of birds


http://poetry.namegeneratorfun.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Forum volume last anza,
last are but no.
Volume Gord sun stanza,
posts belief brain no.


http://webermartin.net/poem.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (and using the Skepticforum.com website for its material) (Edit: Heyyyyy, why did it pick on my brain?? :? )
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Donnageddon
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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Donnageddon » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:05 am

"Don't knock what you work so hard to try to get a computer to produce instead"

That was all pure Donnageddon. I would thought the first two words "Tiberius Shatner's" would set the theme. Perhaps I should have added a line about "Tribblinious Tribunals"

But your point is, elsewise, well built. I am no Joyce. But I know my Star Trek.
My name is not Donna.

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by nmblum88 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:10 am

Gord wrote:
nmblum wrote:Try to bring something like this our of your computer lab:
Oho! A challenge!!

Desolation, life, and love.
The old shore roughly loves the reef.
Never fight a tuna.
Life is a sunny mast.


http://thinkzone.wlonk.com/PoemGen/PoemGen.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cries
turkey
cranberries


trucks carve the valley
a pinwheeling pinball
coalesce/evaporate

each stellar night, the sounds of birds


http://poetry.namegeneratorfun.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Forum volume last anza,
last are but no.
Volume Gord sun stanza,
posts belief brain no.


http://webermartin.net/poem.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (and using the Skepticforum.com website for its material) (Edit: Heyyyyy, why did it pick on my brain?? :? )
Gord... I prefer to believe all the above is actually beneath you.
Way beneath you....
And I will go to the grave believing that underneath your wise guy persona lies a really wise guy... struggling, as they say, to get out....
No matter what you say, what you do, what you confess to.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by nmblum88 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:28 am

Donnageddon wrote:"Don't knock what you work so hard to try to get a computer to produce instead"

That was all pure Donnageddon. I would thought the first two words "Tiberius Shatner's" would set the theme. Perhaps I should have added a line about "Tribblinious Tribunals"

But your point is, elsewise, well built. I am no Joyce. But I know my Star Trek.
You are no Joyce, but then who is?
So long may you Trek the light, very light, fantastic.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Donnageddon » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:37 am

nmblum wrote: You are no Joyce, but then who is?
So long may you Trek the light, very light, fantastic.

NMB
Somehow, even when I think you may be insulting me, gently, I feel exalted.
''It seems to me you do not care what banality a man expresses so long as he expresses it in Irish.''
My name is not Donna.

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by nmblum88 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:21 am

Donnageddon wrote:
nmblum wrote: You are no Joyce, but then who is?
So long may you Trek the light, very light, fantastic.

NMB
Somehow, even when I think you may be insulting me, gently, I feel exalted.
''It seems to me you do not care what banality a man expresses so long as he expresses it in Irish.''
I'm not even THAT fastidious....... banality or no, I accept adoration in any tongue recognized on the planet.
Although the more abject adoration should, not, please, be expressed in Xosa... because I don't fully understand it.
But do you recognize how fortunate you are to be living in such an age, having the entire world of wit and/or emotion at your fingertips for immediate access?
Why when *I* was your age..... I would actually have had to read Joyce's poems in order to zero in on such a perfect offering to the badinage.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Donnageddon » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:51 am

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of google"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_o ... _of_giants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But I do NOT generate Joycean Star Trek prose with a computer. I do it old-nerd-style.
My name is not Donna.

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by fromthehills » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:23 pm

In today's world of copy and paste, and on a Skeptic site, the highest form of flattery is to read your actual work and deem it so good that I have to google it to see where you nicked it.

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by nmblum88 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:37 pm

fromthehills wrote:In today's world of copy and paste, and on a Skeptic site, the highest form of flattery is to read your actual work and deem it so good that I have to google it to see where you nicked it.

If a line has quotation marks around it, it isn't "nicked," but just borrowed for an occasion.
But you are absolutely right - no one should have to check out what appears here to see what's original or being passed off as original.... attribution, credit, should be given at once.
So thanks for reminding me... the long quote in magenta , which is to say the "purplish prose," are the final lines from "Ulysses" by James Joyce.... perhaps the most famous "YES," in any language.

Although I don't think there is anyone in this Forum (or in this world) who imagined for a moment I was trying to hi-jack the soliloquy of Molly Bloom as my own.
Beautiful, though... no?

The whole thing, many pages long, once banned in America, is now available on- line.....so lush, so lovely, for anyone to borrow, to share.
.And to recite to oneself while doing dishes or changing spark plugs, as from the mundane to the sublime.
Or when feeling sublime oneself and wanting to share the feeling with another.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Gord » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:38 pm

nmblum wrote:Gord... I prefer to believe all the above is actually beneath you.
Way beneath you....
And I will go to the grave believing that underneath your wise guy persona lies a really wise guy... struggling, as they say, to get out....
No matter what you say, what you do, what you confess to.

NMB
You religious people weird me out. :P
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by nmblum88 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:34 am

Gord wrote:
nmblum wrote:Gord... I prefer to believe all the above is actually beneath you.
Way beneath you....
And I will go to the grave believing that underneath your wise guy persona lies a really wise guy... struggling, as they say, to get out....
No matter what you say, what you do, what you confess to.

NMB
You religious people weird me out. :P
Can you really, in good conscience, attribute it to the religious?
Think carefully before replying as you may be, maybe, endangering your immortal soul......

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Mysteries of the mind.....

Post by Gord » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:40 am

I cannot, in good conscience, even walk across the grass, never mind attribute anything to anyone. All those poor ants.... :frown:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?