The Trouble with Islam Today.

Read any good books lately?
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The Sea is Mine
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The Trouble with Islam Today.

Post by The Sea is Mine » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:25 am

Anyone read this? Is it worth it? It is written by Irshad Manji. Here is the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Islam-Tod ... 0312327005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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bigtim
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Re: The Trouble with Islam Today.

Post by bigtim » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:48 am

The Sea is Mine wrote:Anyone read this? Is it worth it? It is written by Irshad Manji. Here is the link.

http://www.amazon.com/Trouble-Islam-Tod ... 0312327005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
haven't read it -- but the comments/critique of it seems to contradict your other comments regarding women...
To her fellow Muslims she writes:
I hear from a Saudi friend that his country's religious police arrest women for wearing red on Valentines Day, and I think, Since when does a merciful God outlaw joy—or fun? I read about victims of rape being stoned for "adultery" and I wonder how a critical mass of us can stay stone silent.
Interesting you'd like to something that argues with you at the core of it.... on purpose?
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Jeff D
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Re: The Trouble with Islam Today.

Post by Jeff D » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:11 am

I have the book, and I've read it. Manji is a feminist and she still considers herself a Muslim. I guess that culturally and psychologically, it's important to her to reclaim Islam and to transform it into something better than the Islam of the jihadists in the intellectual tradition of Ibn Taymiyya, al-Wahaab, Sayid Qtub, etc.

But given how easy it is to find clear textual support in the Quran and the Hadith to treat women as chattels and second class citizens, to murder apostates, and to conquer and forcibly convert or subjugate "infidels," it's a tough job. Women who are not as smart or as courageous as Irshad Manji have given up. Other women, just as smart and courageous, have concluded that Islam (or the ability to call oneself a Muslim) is not worth all of the intellectual contortions and concessions that need to be made.
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Re: The Trouble with Islam Today.

Post by nmblum88 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:43 pm

Jeff D wrote:I have the book, and I've read it. Manji is a feminist and she still considers herself a Muslim. I guess that culturally and psychologically, it's important to her to reclaim Islam and to transform it into something better than the Islam of the jihadists in the intellectual tradition of Ibn Taymiyya, al-Wahaab, Sayid Qtub, etc.

But given how easy it is to find clear textual support in the Quran and the Hadith to treat women as chattels and second class citizens, to murder apostates, and to conquer and forcibly convert or subjugate "infidels," it's a tough job. Women who are not as smart or as courageous as Irshad Manji have given up. Other women, just as smart and courageous, have concluded that Islam (or the ability to call oneself a Muslim) is not worth all of the intellectual contortions and concessions that need to be made.
Consider this please: that once we start combing religious literature and experience for its least violent, most reasonable proponents, we then have, per se, to contemplate ....sound familiar?.... that it isn't faith (blind dedication to a way of thinking about the world) that is the culprit but fallible human beings.
As in "guns don't kill people, people kill people."
Of course there are human beings who continue to believe, and to express themselves and their temperate but fervent beliefs in the best possible light.
And one is happy they exist, and can express themselves freely even if they have to travel far, far beyond the authority and supremacy of the religion they are making excuses for.
But the bottom line is whether religion itself, and not one particular religion, is a factor in man's inhumanity to man.
And there is, alas, too much corroboration, both historically and on the front pages of our daily newspapers, for the point of view that religion is a business and not in any way an instrument for making change in man's worst attributes and failings.
And there is more than enough evidence to seriously consider that religion and the potential for faith itself, are the most salient factors in trying to make any inroads against those human fears that make for consilience among humans on this planet: xenophobia and misogyny are but two of the destructive infections spread by religion.
Judeophobia has often, in history, led to terrible repercussions for the Judeophobes as well as Jews themselves, due to the intractable nature of a hatred fueled by religious allegiances and faith, which reduce the possibility of any call to reason.
And now Islamaphobia is making its own inroads into our capacity for cool calculation in solving problems that could impact on the survival of the species, if carried to what seems to be our (hysterical) march to the inevitable.

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