The Book That Will Split Christianity

Read any good books lately?
Chad134543
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The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Chad134543 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:48 pm

Well, I just released a book, which I’m giving out for free. Skeptics should check it out, then pass it on to your Christian friends and family.

It can be downloaded here:
http://www.thebooktitledbook.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It’s written to Christians, as if I’m still a Christian—until the last chapter. The idea is, besides trying to do something artistic and cool, to deprogram Christians.

My story: I “found the Lord” when I was 20, and I’ve been claiming the Bible to be the Word of God ever since. Well, up until 2 ½ years ago. It’s taken 2 ½ years to write my book. But back in my Christians days, I was quite a passionate Christian. I did a lot of street-witnessing, a lot of debating. And I always liked my own evangelizing stuff better than what the churches had going on. I’d write my own tracts and stick them on doors and stuff. Well, this book I wrote is essentially my latest tract to try and reach “the lost.”

Thank you. I owe much of my awakening to scientists/skeptics like you. I hope you all check out my book. And I’d love it, if you guys liked it, you posting the link to my website somewhere or forwarding the ebook file on to people. My hope is that it goes viral. I’m not sure if a free, 100-page ebook can go viral, but I’m giving it a try.

Thanks,
Chad

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Jeff D
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Jeff D » Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:18 pm

Chad,

At first, I misread the title of this thread as "The Book that Will S p i t Christianity." We've already had quite a few of those, of course.

It's good that your web site provides a "download zip-compressed pdf file" option. I don't own a dedicated e-book reading device and I am unlikely to spend the money on one (money that I don't have) anytime soon.

It would be even better if you could work out a deal with a print-on-demand publisher.

The printable pdf version of your book is 53 pages. I won't be able to say whether that is too long, too short, or just about right, because I, as someone who has never been a Christian or a theist, do not feel qualified to judge what styles and techniques of argument will "work" in the minds of readers who are committed Christians or slightly-wavering Christians. Arguments such as literary jiu-jitsu, using Scripture to knock holes in the "mighty fortress" of Biblical inerrancy and exclusivity.

Good luck with this project.
Jeff D

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by rrichar911 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:41 pm

I shall endeavor to read it and point out your errors in thinking, as you have come to the wrong conclusion.

Your welcome.
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by nmblum88 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:16 pm

rrichar911 wrote:I shall endeavor to read it and point out your errors in thinking, as you have come to the wrong conclusion.

Your welcome.
LOL... rricar911!! Where is your much vaunted (by you) LOGIC?
Sounds like you are catching the habit of reviewing, passing judgment on books you haven't read,as with music you have never listened to, films you haven't seen, games you haven't played.

Isn't it (short of magic) impossible to know whether errors in thinking exist BEFORE having read the data (material) on which the thinking (given that it exists) has been based?
And how can you know whether a conclusion is wrong or even right if you haven't heard what led up to the conclusion?
Hmmmmm.... your self-advertised claim to logic might be getting too frayed to be safe on the road.
Time, maybe, to send it back to the shop for an overhaul??

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by xouper » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:40 pm

nmblum wrote:
rrichar911 wrote:I shall endeavor to read it and point out your errors in thinking, as you have come to the wrong conclusion.
Isn't it (short of magic) impossible to know whether errors in thinking exist BEFORE having read the data (material) on which the thinking (given that it exists) has been based?
Not necessarily, no.

If the conclusion of the book is false, then there must be an error in the book even if I have not read it.

Example: A book written by a Creationist concludes that Evolution is false. I do not need to read the book to know that there is an error in it somewhere.

The flaw in rrichar911's argument is not a failure to read the book, the flaw is his assertion that the book's conclusion is wrong. But I understand why he thinks it is wrong. I don't agree, obviously, but his Christian belief is well known around here.

:pc:

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by xouper » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:51 pm

Jeff D wrote:The printable pdf version of your book is 53 pages.
There are 53 "pages" in the pdf file. However, except for the cover "page", the remaining 52 "pages" are landscape mode with two pages each, thus the book actually has 104 pages.

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Martin Brock » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:30 pm

Christianity has always been split, but one more schism can't hurt. Born again atheists often believe that they must show others the way. You could instead forget about your former religion and get on with your life.
People associating freely respect norms of their choice, and relationships governed this way are necessarily interdependent.

More central authorities conquer by dividing, imposing norms channeling the value of synergy toward themselves.

"Every man for himself" is the prescription of a state, not a free community. A state protects the poor from the rich only in fairy tales.

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by nmblum88 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:26 pm

Martin Brock wrote:Christianity has always been split, but one more schism can't hurt. Born again atheists often believe that they must show others the way. You could instead forget about your former religion and get on with your life.
Yes, it is unlikely that Chad's self-putlished (on the internet) memoir will topple the spires of Christianity, nor even make a dent in Bible sales or votive candles around the world...
But Mrtin, here you are still, tying to sell your own "Martin's Guide to Atheism as a Religon" (otherwise known as "the Impuissance Gazette" for its repetitiveness and lack of real conviction and talent for the task) on the same old corner!!

And Lordy, Lordy, Lordy!!! What is more poignant, wistful, sadder and with a touch of the impotence that goes with constance repetition and no talent for honestly stated convictions of one's own?

It makes you sound much like the member of the (high school) marching band who can't get more than one note to come out of his tuba, as he slogs along to the beat of sickly drummer.

And the tune? "Pissing in the Wind."

Norma Manna Blum







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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Bunyip » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:06 am

Will I read your self published,unreviewed book?

Why on earth would I want to do that? If you're serious give us short precis,say 1000-1500words,citing evidence ,then I'll see.

.I don't know you and have no basis to afford you enough credibility to bother reading your book. On the face of it,you sound like a ticked of former Christian and autodidact,with all that implies. Self published books are always a concern,as they tend to be rubbish, with a fraction of 1% worth reading,like blogs.


Christianity is already split,into hundreds of squabbling sects and cults,

As a general principle ,people who hold faith based beliefs are rarely swayed by anything as prosaic as reason or evidence. As Greg House said "If you could reason with religious people there wouldn't be any"

I'm going to need quite a lot more before I bother reading your essay: 53 pages is an essay or perhaps an outline for a Phd thesis. Your work needs to be of that quality to be taken seriously .(at least by me)

This happens to be a discussion forum,not a platform for you to spam your book. Become a contributing member or bugger off. :evil:
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Monster » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:17 pm

Chad134543 wrote:I’m an aspiring iconoclast of the Christian order, but because I still giggle at poo, I’m often dismissed.
Mr. Chad134543, those sorts of statements don't help you.
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Lausten » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:29 pm

Skimming it, I'll give it points for the lists, but not so much for style. I'll try to find more time for it. I was never "that kind" of Christian, so I can't say if it will appeal to the audience you are seeking or not. There need to be many ways to package the message, and this seems to have some merit. Hope you get good responses.
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Lausten » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:01 pm

Chad; I enjoyed the read somewhat, but I’m not so sure it will accomplish what you want. There were a couple points where I suspect Christians readers will see where you are going, skip to the end, and not read the rest. I do think you have a unique journey, and cover some ground that many don’t. I especially like that you spend a few pages talking about the definition of atheist and agnostic and leave your own beliefs open. This is more likely to engage a Christian reader and might be a better way to start. For example the story of you as a kid suggesting that you let yourself get poisoned by a snake because it was in Mark 16:17-18, that was interesting.

I came across this recentlyhttp://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#gr ... D163BE880A . He starts by telling you he is going to explain why he is an atheist, but then tells you his story. He lets you know that he was a bible thumper and a serious one. A narrative style of how you encounter these people you talk about and how they shaped you might be a better approach.

I really liked the Measuring Rod, Primeval Man and other theories. But more because they gave me insight into the Fundamenalist mind and helped prepare me for future conversation. As presented, I think a believer would be defensive, as if you were trying to tell them what is wrong with their thinking. Which of course is what you are doing, but if instead you told the story of how you thought that way, or how you considered a friend’s argument who thought that way, then realized it didn’t work for you, you might get them to consider that thought process for themselves. You often start out doing that, then switch to stating how wrong the thinking is and suggesting the reader not think that way.

Thanks especially for showing chapter and verse that discusses using reason and that humans play some part in receiving the Truth. This is an interesting way to approach epistemology with someone who believes that thoughts magically appear in their head. I wondered at p. 31, when you define reason, if you might lose a few there. That paragraph about “potty”, I would just remove.

This whole area of evidence is one that interests me. It seems a big sticking point for believers is evidence that can’t be confirmed. If they have seen Jesus for themselves, or even felt some energy with someone, and then that person had their cancer go in remission or something, it can be difficult to convince them it was anything other than divine. Worse, a story about someone else having such an experience, can be just as convincing. This is obviously not evidence as we know it, but you’re probably not going to convince them of that in a few pages. You sort of address this a little later when talking about how people switch from a reason conversation to a faith conversation when they start to lose the reason conversation, but again, using that “don’t think like this” style.

I have a few other points, but for now, I’ll just discuss your point #5, that Christians should be the last group to ignore the errors in the Bible. This seems like a perfectly reasonable point, but truth is most people don’t care. Christians who don’t believe in inerrancy can dismiss them and consider them fixed by grace or something. Christians who do believe in inerrancy believe that someone can explain them. They don’t need to know the details themselves, they just know someone else in the congregation who can, and they’ll direct to them if you bring up the subject. I have met many of these people and their explanations are so convoluted, it would take you hours to work through them and explain their logical fallacies and inconsistencies to someone. Very few people want to do that work, so they fall back on the easy answers and trust that their pastor knows best. I’m not saying to take this out of the book. In this part, you do present it more like a story of your encounter with the problem.

Keep us informed of how this goes.
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Gord » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:43 am

Lausten wrote:I came across this recentlyhttp://www.youtube.com/user/Evid3nc3#gr ... D163BE880A . He starts by telling you he is going to explain why he is an atheist, but then tells you his story. He lets you know that he was a bible thumper and a serious one.
That's a good one. I have a few of his videos in my Favourites.
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Chad134543 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:29 pm

Lausten,

Thanks so much for reading and giving good feedback.

I wanted to respond to a couple of things, just to give you an idea of what I thought about what you thought, just for fun.

Your first general point about me possibly telling people what I'm going to tell them first, then telling them—well, I guess that was kind of the whole idea behind my book, for better or worse. The idea behind the book was to be able to go where other books can't. How well I executed this idea, I don't know. I don't know much about writing period, honestly. I've never been much of a reader. But I do think I still like the idea of trying to create something sly that to tries to "reach the lost," regardless of how well I pulled it off.

Yes, most Christians will probably skip to the end of my book then put it down completely when they suspect that something's up. But I say, even more Christians wouldn't have even opened my book in the first place if they knew right up front that I had deconverted and was about to them why. Also, my hope is that I'm able to establish enough credibility with my Christian readers that when they do suspect something and want to run, hopefully they feel a little cowardly and disingenuous about abandoning a book they were just agreeing with so much. But, we'll see.

Responding to your thoughts on my point #5: I agree. People don't care, which sucks. But of course, not every Christian doesn't care. I don't know what percentage does, but I know I was at least capable of changing my mind.

I guess I just have a hope that once the reasonable ones in Christianity—the ones that most Christians are admiring the most—deconvert, the sheep who were just following leaders blindly will then blindly begin participating in the new norm.

Regarding potty in my book: I love potty. I find it funny to be 36 and still smiling at it, so I didn't have much choice but to sprinkle my work with it.

Again, thanks for reading and typing so much to a stranger,
Chad
Last edited by Chad134543 on Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:40 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by bigtim » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:39 pm

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by Lausten » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:15 pm

Chad wrote:even more Christians wouldn't have even opened my book in the first place if they knew right up front that I had deconverted and was about to them why.
I happened across John Shelby Spong's "Jesus for the Non-Religious" when I was still a believer. I had no idea who he was or what I was about to read. It sounded like a different approach for my non-believing friends. He deconstructs all the major miracles, tells why they are false and gives a reasonable explanation for them being written, given the historical context. In other words, he interprets the Bible as myth. That was the biggest earthquake in the breaking of my believing. Unfortunately he ends the book with a statement of faith, but I have never figured out why.

Fundamentalists would have steered me away from that book, even with the faith statement, as I suspect they will steer from yours. Maybe a title like that would be a good idea for you, something like, "Preparing for a ready defense" or "21st century Apologetics".
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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by rickoshay85 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:50 pm

Chad134543 wrote:Well, I just released a book, which I’m giving out for free. Skeptics should check it out, then pass it on to your Christian friends and family.

It can be downloaded here:
http://www.thebooktitledbook.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It’s written to Christians, as if I’m still a Christian—until the last chapter. The idea is, besides trying to do something artistic and cool, to deprogram Christians.

My story: I “found the Lord” when I was 20, and I’ve been claiming the Bible to be the Word of God ever since. Well, up until 2 ½ years ago. It’s taken 2 ½ years to write my book. But back in my Christians days, I was quite a passionate Christian. I did a lot of street-witnessing, a lot of debating. And I always liked my own evangelizing stuff better than what the churches had going on. I’d write my own tracts and stick them on doors and stuff. Well, this book I wrote is essentially my latest tract to try and reach “the lost.”

Thank you. I owe much of my awakening to scientists/skeptics like you. I hope you all check out my book. And I’d love it, if you guys liked it, you posting the link to my website somewhere or forwarding the ebook file on to people. My hope is that it goes viral. I’m not sure if a free, 100-page ebook can go viral, but I’m giving it a try.

Thanks,
Chad
Let's hope your backsliding is permanent, not just a fad.

My dad was a fire and brimstone preacher all his adult life, but two or three times he abandoned his beliefs, left his family and flock, sinned, atoned, was forgiven by all, and went back to preaching.

Da devil made him do it..

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Re: The Book That Will Split Christianity

Post by vanderpoel » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:29 pm

Jeff D wrote:Chad,

At first, I misread the title of this thread as "The Book that Will S p i t Christianity." We've already had quite a few of those, of course.

It's good that your web site provides a "download zip-compressed pdf file" option. I don't own a dedicated e-book reading device and I am unlikely to spend the money on one (money that I don't have) anytime soon.

It would be even better if you could work out a deal with a print-on-demand publisher.

The printable pdf version of your book is 53 pages. I won't be able to say whether that is too long, too short, or just about right, because I, as someone who has never been a Christian or a theist, do not feel qualified to judge what styles and techniques of argument will "work" in the minds of readers who are committed Christians or slightly-wavering Christians. Arguments such as literary jiu-jitsu, using Scripture to knock holes in the "mighty fortress" of Biblical inerrancy and exclusivity.

Good luck with this project.
Good advice Jeff. Chad, you can print your book for free as long as it is black and white, under 100 pages and distributed through Amazon/createspace. Here's a link: https://www.createspace.com/Products/Bo ... spworker00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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