Arguing against religion

General discussion on the subject of religion, losing religion, and having no religion to lose...
User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Lausten » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:01 pm

Azania wrote:.. it is just a word we use because...
There should be a smiley icon, holding a red flag
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
Has No Life
Posts: 12009
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:13 pm

Lausten wrote:
Azania wrote:.. it is just a word we use because...
There should be a smiley icon, holding a red flag
:sr:

Best we can do atm.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:24 pm

Lausten wrote:
..all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
Wow, the incoherent explainers of reality have attracted two more incoherent explainers of reality. Thanks for the morning chuckle y'all.

Amazing how these explanations of what "is" eventually come around to reflecting the natural explanation of the world. What else could our thoughts be except collections of what we perceive? And what else could the world be except that which happens?
Calm down my friend, if you were free of preconceptions you would not have thought it incoherent. My post actually refers to what it is not. Who knows what it is? When you refer to the world whose world are you referencing? It is certainly not mine. Everything in my world makes perfectly good sense, there is nothing incoherent about admitting that there is nothing that can be known about the reality.

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Lausten » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:12 pm

Azania wrote:
Lausten wrote:
..all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
Wow, the incoherent explainers of reality have attracted two more incoherent explainers of reality. Thanks for the morning chuckle y'all.

Amazing how these explanations of what "is" eventually come around to reflecting the natural explanation of the world. What else could our thoughts be except collections of what we perceive? And what else could the world be except that which happens?
Calm down my friend, if you were free of preconceptions you would not have thought it incoherent. My post actually refers to what it is not. Who knows what it is? When you refer to the world whose world are you referencing? It is certainly not mine. Everything in my world makes perfectly good sense, there is nothing incoherent about admitting that there is nothing that can be known about the reality.
Yes I'm totally out of control and in need of someone like you to give me advice about how I should be.
My "preconceptions" as you call them are my perceptions. Perceptions that I've confirmed with all those other perceivers out there.
You have quickly taken the refuge of the cowardly philosopher. You are questioning what the world is and if anything at all can be known and who knows it. The rest of the world has been working on these questions for thousands of years, and making pretty good progress I might add. You're welcome to join us anytime. Or should I say any "time"?
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:21 pm

Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
How do you decide when and if
they are unconscious ? They may be
just ignoring you.
It is not that they are unconscious or ignoring you because the idea of a state of unconsciousness and ignorance is in consciousness. Like I said you are only consciousness and everything and everywhere is in your consciousness. From the perspective of the unconscious it is just a lapse in memory that is all. If you have been unconscious yourself you remember nothing of it. All that the others can say about it is that you were unresponsive. To you it was just a blank. Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness, when it partially fails and we can no longer recall the content or the information that the consciousness has recorded to memory we call it Alzheimer's or dementia. The moment the consciousness sprouts it is recording information from its environment, it mirrors everything and everything is mirrored in memory, all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
If I am only consciousness then how can I be
unconscious ?
Speak for your own experiences ~ they can toss me around and not get a response but
I remember things from where I go from
my body. Amazzzzzing things!!!!

Like now?
And now?
And now?
I remember typing that and even what
I'm going to type next but it is only in the now?
Memory is now. Consciousness is always. One.
Divided = fail. Multiplied is many of one.

There is nothing wrong with the memory itself, it is the content that creates problems. Like the idea of God. Because there are so many ideas about God we have religious wars. Memory is now but it's content must be recalled. You need not remember now because it is always the case. So when I say I am only consciousness it can only be out of my own experience which can only be now. If I am rendered unconscious it would be impossible for me to say anything about it because of the lapse in memory. Can you say anything about your deep sleep apart from I feel well rested once it's over ? Similarly from the point of my own experience I can only say I am conscious, I cannot say I am unconscious, this also applies to you and everybody else.

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Angel » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:53 pm

Lausten wrote:
Angel wrote: You must not pay much attention around
Oh, you think "paying attention" means "reading your posts". That's cute.
Even if I had read that in the midst of your pseudo-haikus, I wouldn't have believed it or bothered committing it to memory.
No you r cute.

What's a pseudo-haikus?
You want to talk?
You know where I am. :lol:

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:59 pm

Lausten wrote:
Azania wrote:
Lausten wrote:
..all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
Wow, the incoherent explainers of reality have attracted two more incoherent explainers of reality. Thanks for the morning chuckle y'all.

Amazing how these explanations of what "is" eventually come around to reflecting the natural explanation of the world. What else could our thoughts be except collections of what we perceive? And what else could the world be except that which happens?
Calm down my friend, if you were free of preconceptions you would not have thought it incoherent. My post actually refers to what it is not. Who knows what it is? When you refer to the world whose world are you referencing? It is certainly not mine. Everything in my world makes perfectly good sense, there is nothing incoherent about admitting that there is nothing that can be known about the reality.
Yes I'm totally out of control and in need of someone like you to give me advice about how I should be.
My "preconceptions" as you call them are my perceptions. Perceptions that I've confirmed with all those other perceivers out there.
You have quickly taken the refuge of the cowardly philosopher. You are questioning what the world is and if anything at all can be known and who knows it. The rest of the world has been working on these questions for thousands of years, and making pretty good progress I might add. You're welcome to join us anytime. Or should I say any "time"?
I think you have missed the point somewhere along the line. I do not question the world, it is the reality in question. The world is but a series of images in your own mind and if I'm to go by what you are saying here then I'm afraid the world has made very little progress. Either that or you are not much aware of what is actually happening. There is plenty to know about a world you have carved out for yourself in the mind but there is very little which can be said about a world independent of the mind.

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Angel » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:02 am

Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
How do you decide when and if
they are unconscious ? They may be
just ignoring you.
It is not that they are unconscious or ignoring you because the idea of a state of unconsciousness and ignorance is in consciousness. Like I said you are only consciousness and everything and everywhere is in your consciousness. From the perspective of the unconscious it is just a lapse in memory that is all. If you have been unconscious yourself you remember nothing of it. All that the others can say about it is that you were unresponsive. To you it was just a blank. Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness, when it partially fails and we can no longer recall the content or the information that the consciousness has recorded to memory we call it Alzheimer's or dementia. The moment the consciousness sprouts it is recording information from its environment, it mirrors everything and everything is mirrored in memory, all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
If I am only consciousness then how can I be
unconscious ?
Speak for your own experiences ~ they can toss me around and not get a response but
I remember things from where I go from
my body. Amazzzzzing things!!!!

Like now?
And now?
And now?
I remember typing that and even what
I'm going to type next but it is only in the now?
Memory is now. Consciousness is always. One.
Divided = fail. Multiplied is many of one.

There is nothing wrong with the memory itself, it is the content that creates problems. Like the idea of God. Because there are so many ideas about God we have religious wars. Memory is now but it's content must be recalled. You need not remember now because it is always the case. So when I say I am only consciousness it can only be out of my own experience which can only be now. If I am rendered unconscious it would be impossible for me to say anything about it because of the lapse in memory. Can you say anything about your deep sleep apart from I feel well rested once it's over ? Similarly from the point of my own experience I can only say I am conscious, I cannot say I am unconscious, this also applies to you and everybody else.
In my life ~ God existed before the idea of
God existed just as my family existed
before I knew what they are. Just as
friends exist before they r friends. It's a
Faith thing lol

What's wrong with the content of my memory?
Does it not suite you?
What r witnesses for then?
I have witnesses but they
r chicken and won't speak
with me.
You can't speak for my experience lol
The most you can do is witness it. How good
is your memory?
You want to talk?
You know where I am. :lol:

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:44 am

Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
Matthew Ellard wrote: No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
Azania wrote:Yes they do, in consciousness, hence the reason why I say we are only consciousness, there is only consciousness.
That is completely mindless drivel. No conscious human has to be be anywhere in the vicinity and yet all these objects still exist.

You have somehow confused your subjective interpretation of the world with standard physics.

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:53 am

Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
How do you decide when and if
they are unconscious ? They may be
just ignoring you.
It is not that they are unconscious or ignoring you because the idea of a state of unconsciousness and ignorance is in consciousness. Like I said you are only consciousness and everything and everywhere is in your consciousness. From the perspective of the unconscious it is just a lapse in memory that is all. If you have been unconscious yourself you remember nothing of it. All that the others can say about it is that you were unresponsive. To you it was just a blank. Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness, when it partially fails and we can no longer recall the content or the information that the consciousness has recorded to memory we call it Alzheimer's or dementia. The moment the consciousness sprouts it is recording information from its environment, it mirrors everything and everything is mirrored in memory, all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
If I am only consciousness then how can I be
unconscious ?
Speak for your own experiences ~ they can toss me around and not get a response but
I remember things from where I go from
my body. Amazzzzzing things!!!!

Like now?
And now?
And now?
I remember typing that and even what
I'm going to type next but it is only in the now?
Memory is now. Consciousness is always. One.
Divided = fail. Multiplied is many of one.

There is nothing wrong with the memory itself, it is the content that creates problems. Like the idea of God. Because there are so many ideas about God we have religious wars. Memory is now but it's content must be recalled. You need not remember now because it is always the case. So when I say I am only consciousness it can only be out of my own experience which can only be now. If I am rendered unconscious it would be impossible for me to say anything about it because of the lapse in memory. Can you say anything about your deep sleep apart from I feel well rested once it's over ? Similarly from the point of my own experience I can only say I am conscious, I cannot say I am unconscious, this also applies to you and everybody else.
In my life ~ God existed before the idea of
God existed just as my family existed
before I knew what they are. Just as
friends exist before they r friends. It's a
Faith thing lol

What's wrong with the content of my memory?
Does it not suite you?
What r witnesses for then?
I have witnesses but they
r chicken and won't speak
with me.
You can't speak for my experience lol
The most you can do is witness it. How good
is your memory?
Do you not think that before any mentation of any kind can occur you must be there first for it to occur to?. Otherwise how can all these thoughts of God, family and friends arise?

The content of your memory is a conflict of interest. There is you as a point of awareness then there is the idea which you have of yourself as a focal point in consciousness. In consciousness all your ideas that you have about yourself, God, family and friends are here. And of course I cannot speak for your experience but for the experiencer I can, for it is only one. What you are in essence and substance I am too, we are one of the same.

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:59 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
Matthew Ellard wrote: No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
Azania wrote:Yes they do, in consciousness, hence the reason why I say we are only consciousness, there is only consciousness.
That is completely mindless drivel. No conscious human has to be be anywhere in the vicinity and yet all these objects still exist.

You have somehow confused your subjective interpretation of the world with standard physics.
That's what you think, it is obviously not what you know. The real is illogical, you cannot paste it on the board of standardised physics. Both the object and the subject are observations in the consciousness.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:09 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: That is completely mindless drivel. No conscious human has to be be anywhere in the vicinity and yet all these objects still exist. You have somehow confused your subjective interpretation of the world with standard physics.
Azania wrote: That's what you think, it is obviously not what you know.
No. It's what I know from science and can replicate in experiments. You can't do anything like that and your point serves no useful purpose apart from expressing your subjective, non-scientific, interpretation on life , which makes no sense to others.

You are wasting our time as this is a science based forum.
:D

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Lausten » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:13 am

Azania wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
Matthew Ellard wrote: No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
Azania wrote:Yes they do, in consciousness, hence the reason why I say we are only consciousness, there is only consciousness.
That is completely mindless drivel. No conscious human has to be be anywhere in the vicinity and yet all these objects still exist.

You have somehow confused your subjective interpretation of the world with standard physics.
That's what you think, it is obviously not what you know. The real is illogical, you cannot paste it on the board of standardised physics. Both the object and the subject are observations in the consciousness.
I don't think you know what physics is.
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: That is completely mindless drivel. No conscious human has to be be anywhere in the vicinity and yet all these objects still exist. You have somehow confused your subjective interpretation of the world with standard physics.
Azania wrote: That's what you think, it is obviously not what you know.
No. It's what I know from science and can replicate in experiments. You can't do anything like that and your point serves no useful purpose apart from expressing your subjective, non-scientific, interpretation on life , which makes no sense to others.

You are wasting our time as this is a science based forum.
:D
You know what you know according to science granted. But it is not your own experience. And for what it is worth you may as well say you know nothing. Science only deals with the material, there is obviously something else which does not enter into the scientific scheme of things - nothing is also counted as something. It cannot be ignored, because it is there. Only in general it is ignored because the mind can only count it as binary otherwise it cannot equate it at all nor substantiate it or validate it. But it is there nevertheless, even by your standards of scientific analysis it shows up every time science reaches its boundaries. There is always something on the horizon that science can never quite reach. Because of that which can be analysed there is always that which cannot be analysed. It make every sense, even to you you just do not realise it yet. Unless you expand your awareness beyond the limitations and restrictions of science you will never verify what you think you know by your own experience which is knowing the totality and fullness of all that there is in reality. In scientific analysis the observer is never accounted for hence the reason why there is no end to discovery because the event horizon or the observer can never be reached, touched or contacted - this is also your science by the why.
Last edited by Azania on Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19716
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:26 am

Azania wrote:Unless you expand your awareness beyond the limitations and restrictions of science you will never verify what you think you know by your own experience which is knowing the totality and fullness of all that there is in reality.
What?
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:37 am

Exactly that! Science can only go so far, to make further progress it must be abandoned. Otherwise you go round in circles. There is nothing new under the sun.

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10982
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Post-bloom
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Poodle » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:55 am

Azania wrote:... Unconsciousness is a misnomer, it is just a word we use because in common parlance the state which we call unconsciousness is misunderstood.
Errrmmmm ...
Azania wrote:Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness ...
Errrmmm ...

So which is It?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19716
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:01 am

Azania wrote:Exactly that! Science can only go so far, to make further progress it must be abandoned. Otherwise you go round in circles. There is nothing new under the sun.
Oh good. I think I actually understand this statement. Now, I can firmly say: Nope. That's just silly.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:35 am

Poodle wrote:
Azania wrote:... Unconsciousness is a misnomer, it is just a word we use because in common parlance the state which we call unconsciousness is misunderstood.
Errrmmmm ...
Azania wrote:Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness ...
Errrmmm ...

So which is It?
You can have it any how you like, a word, a misnomer, in any case it is not.

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:58 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Azania wrote:Exactly that! Science can only go so far, to make further progress it must be abandoned. Otherwise you go round in circles. There is nothing new under the sun.
Oh good. I think I actually understand this statement. Now, I can firmly say: Nope. That's just silly.
I don't think you do. It's highly unlikely for you as consciousness to know all that there is through the keyhole of a puniverse . At best you will see your own reflection.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19716
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:03 am

To know all that there is.............is not even on the table. //// Silly x 2

keyhole of a puniverse................that is all there is. ///// Silly x 3

At best you will see your own reflection. ...... No at best I will see reality as best it can be. ///// Silly x 4.

Road Map: 5 is next.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Lausten » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:22 am

Azania wrote: Unless you expand your awareness beyond the limitations and restrictions of science you will never verify what you think you know by your own experience which is knowing the totality and fullness of all that there is in reality. In scientific analysis the observer is never accounted for hence the reason why there is no end to discovery because the event horizon or the observer can never be reached, touched or contacted - this is also your science by the why.
The words of a wannabe guru. But why would someone who wants to fool people with fancy words, telling them they have powers they don't know about , come to a forum titled "Letting Go of God"? Does he actually believe himself? And if he does, why doesn't he just use those powers to make himself a cheeseburger out of nothing? That would be time better spent. Better for all of us.
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10982
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Post-bloom
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Poodle » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:17 am

No. I don't like cheese on burgers.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19716
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:33 am

Poodle wrote:No. I don't like cheese on burgers.
What!?!?!?!?!? there is NOTHING that is not better with cheese.

Proove me wrong:----------------Go================> (Moosepie even tastes better!...not that I have ever.....)
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:34 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:To know all that there is.............is not even on the table. //// Silly x 2

keyhole of a puniverse................that is all there is. ///// Silly x 3

At best you will see your own reflection. ...... No at best I will see reality as best it can be. ///// Silly x 4.

Road Map: 5 is next.
You only see what is in your mind - that's the way you see things which to all intent and purpose is just another point of view amongst many others in your mind. Until you experience the real for yourself even what I say will just be another point of view, theory or idea in your mind. The real is never what we think it to be. It can only be. Which leads me to my final point - Nothing is, only a field of consciousness which everything you think there is appears.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19716
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:40 am

Assania: word salad on a Deepac Chopra Level. Pure Gibberish. Not even worth a throw away 5.

I agree YOU might only see what is in your mind...as twisted as you would have to be to be in such a state, but Reality IS an externality that affects any egotistical contrarian notion: Its what hits our nose when we think nothing is there.

Know what I mean?..............and I don't care if you don't. BS Woo is BS. I don't like BS. Its worse than cheese.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:39 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Assania: Reality IS an externality
Show me or give me an example of something, anything that exists outside of your mind your consciousness and I should be able to see your point. Otherwise your statement is and will remain a contradiction.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19716
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:42 pm

I was asleep last Friday night and an asteroid hit my house destroying my collection of Black Forrest Clocks. It was covered by Insurance and they confirmed all the facts. All a matter of public record.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Lausten » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:36 pm

Azania wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Assania: Reality IS an externality
Show me or give me an example of something, anything that exists outside of your mind your consciousness and I should be able to see your point. Otherwise your statement is and will remain a contradiction.
Image
I've never been there. I don't know who took this picture. I have no way to prove this exists other than all the history books and all the references I've heard to it and a couple friends who have been there. But they could all be lying. So, go to where those people say this is, and see for yourself. Make sure you do that without me being aware of it.
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:34 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I was asleep last Friday night and an asteroid hit my house destroying my collection of Black Forrest Clocks. It was covered by Insurance and they confirmed all the facts. All a matter of public record.
Lol! You can not. All the events that take place in your world and the world itself is seen and registered in your brain. You have conceived of a brain because that's what you have been taught, your brain appears in your mind and your mind is in your consciousness. These are your facts not mine. Lol!!.

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Angel » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:50 pm

Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
How do you decide when and if
they are unconscious ? They may be
just ignoring you.
It is not that they are unconscious or ignoring you because the idea of a state of unconsciousness and ignorance is in consciousness. Like I said you are only consciousness and everything and everywhere is in your consciousness. From the perspective of the unconscious it is just a lapse in memory that is all. If you have been unconscious yourself you remember nothing of it. All that the others can say about it is that you were unresponsive. To you it was just a blank. Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness, when it partially fails and we can no longer recall the content or the information that the consciousness has recorded to memory we call it Alzheimer's or dementia. The moment the consciousness sprouts it is recording information from its environment, it mirrors everything and everything is mirrored in memory, all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
If I am only consciousness then how can I be
unconscious ?
Speak for your own experiences ~ they can toss me around and not get a response but
I remember things from where I go from
my body. Amazzzzzing things!!!!

Like now?
And now?
And now?
I remember typing that and even what
I'm going to type next but it is only in the now?
Memory is now. Consciousness is always. One.
Divided = fail. Multiplied is many of one.

There is nothing wrong with the memory itself, it is the content that creates problems. Like the idea of God. Because there are so many ideas about God we have religious wars. Memory is now but it's content must be recalled. You need not remember now because it is always the case. So when I say I am only consciousness it can only be out of my own experience which can only be now. If I am rendered unconscious it would be impossible for me to say anything about it because of the lapse in memory. Can you say anything about your deep sleep apart from I feel well rested once it's over ? Similarly from the point of my own experience I can only say I am conscious, I cannot say I am unconscious, this also applies to you and everybody else.
In my life ~ God existed before the idea of
God existed just as my family existed
before I knew what they are. Just as
friends exist before they r friends. It's a
Faith thing lol

What's wrong with the content of my memory?
Does it not suite you?
What r witnesses for then?
I have witnesses but they
r chicken and won't speak
with me.
You can't speak for my experience lol
The most you can do is witness it. How good
is your memory?
Do you not think that before any mentation of any kind can occur you must be there first for it to occur to?. Otherwise how can all these thoughts of God, family and friends arise?

The content of your memory is a conflict of interest. There is you as a point of awareness then there is the idea which you have of yourself as a focal point in consciousness. In consciousness all your ideas that you have about yourself, God, family and friends are here. And of course I cannot speak for your experience but for the experiencer I can, for it is only one. What you are in essence and substance I am too, we are one of the same.
Oh ya ~ do u define mental activity as coming
from the brain or the mind?

They existed before I did.
I came to know them.
I am not God. Lol
I'm just the messenger .
You can shoot me but I don't
know what good it will do you.
I am one with ?
I don't quite know yet.
I am one with u when u r one with I.
Can u look in the whites of the eye?
See the light in the dark?
The same substance? That's for science
to prove. The same essence ? Not sure?
Always more questions than time.
You want to talk?
You know where I am. :lol:

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Angel » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:13 pm

Azania wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:To know all that there is.............is not even on the table. //// Silly x 2

keyhole of a puniverse................that is all there is. ///// Silly x 3

At best you will see your own reflection. ...... No at best I will see reality as best it can be. ///// Silly x 4.

Road Map: 5 is next.
You only see what is in your mind - that's the way you see things which to all intent and purpose is just another point of view amongst many others in your mind. Until you experience the real for yourself even what I say will just be another point of view, theory or idea in your mind. The real is never what we think it to be. It can only be. Which leads me to my final point - Nothing is, only a field of consciousness which everything you think there is appears.
What's this gobbledegook ? Lol

Then teachers r pointless ?
How do people connect?
It's all n my mind!!
No it's all in my mind!!!
Cause u don't exist! Lol

I had a dream that I was kissing a man.
I don't often have sexual dreams & I was
14 at the time. It was the most perfect
kiss I could have experienced. Latter that
night ~ unforeseen circumstances had me
hiding in the bushes with a man & we
kissed & it was exactly like the dream.
Was the desire there before the kiss?
I didn't know him very well.
You want to talk?
You know where I am. :lol:

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:31 pm

Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
How do you decide when and if
they are unconscious ? They may be
just ignoring you.
It is not that they are unconscious or ignoring you because the idea of a state of unconsciousness and ignorance is in consciousness. Like I said you are only consciousness and everything and everywhere is in your consciousness. From the perspective of the unconscious it is just a lapse in memory that is all. If you have been unconscious yourself you remember nothing of it. All that the others can say about it is that you were unresponsive. To you it was just a blank. Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness, when it partially fails and we can no longer recall the content or the information that the consciousness has recorded to memory we call it Alzheimer's or dementia. The moment the consciousness sprouts it is recording information from its environment, it mirrors everything and everything is mirrored in memory, all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
If I am only consciousness then how can I be
unconscious ?
Speak for your own experiences ~ they can toss me around and not get a response but
I remember things from where I go from
my body. Amazzzzzing things!!!!

Like now?
And now?
And now?
I remember typing that and even what
I'm going to type next but it is only in the now?
Memory is now. Consciousness is always. One.
Divided = fail. Multiplied is many of one.

There is nothing wrong with the memory itself, it is the content that creates problems. Like the idea of God. Because there are so many ideas about God we have religious wars. Memory is now but it's content must be recalled. You need not remember now because it is always the case. So when I say I am only consciousness it can only be out of my own experience which can only be now. If I am rendered unconscious it would be impossible for me to say anything about it because of the lapse in memory. Can you say anything about your deep sleep apart from I feel well rested once it's over ? Similarly from the point of my own experience I can only say I am conscious, I cannot say I am unconscious, this also applies to you and everybody else.
In my life ~ God existed before the idea of
God existed just as my family existed
before I knew what they are. Just as
friends exist before they r friends. It's a
Faith thing lol

What's wrong with the content of my memory?
Does it not suite you?
What r witnesses for then?
I have witnesses but they
r chicken and won't speak
with me.
You can't speak for my experience lol
The most you can do is witness it. How good
is your memory?
Do you not think that before any mentation of any kind can occur you must be there first for it to occur to?. Otherwise how can all these thoughts of God, family and friends arise?

The content of your memory is a conflict of interest. There is you as a point of awareness then there is the idea which you have of yourself as a focal point in consciousness. In consciousness all your ideas that you have about yourself, God, family and friends are here. And of course I cannot speak for your experience but for the experiencer I can, for it is only one. What you are in essence and substance I am too, we are one of the same.
Oh ya ~ do u define mental activity as coming
from the brain or the mind?

They existed before I did.
I came to know them.
I am not God. Lol
I'm just the messenger .
You can shoot me but I don't
know what good it will do you.
I am one with ?
I don't quite know yet.
I am one with u when u r one with I.
Can u look in the whites of the eye?
See the light in the dark?
The same substance? That's for science
to prove. The same essence ? Not sure?
Always more questions than time.
Mental activity is the work of the mind. The concept of a brain exists in the mind. Where else could it be, inside your skull? - is a lump of matter.

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:12 pm

Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:To know all that there is.............is not even on the table. //// Silly x 2

keyhole of a puniverse................that is all there is. ///// Silly x 3

At best you will see your own reflection. ...... No at best I will see reality as best it can be. ///// Silly x 4.

Road Map: 5 is next.
You only see what is in your mind - that's the way you see things which to all intent and purpose is just another point of view amongst many others in your mind. Until you experience the real for yourself even what I say will just be another point of view, theory or idea in your mind. The real is never what we think it to be. It can only be. Which leads me to my final point - Nothing is, only a field of consciousness which everything you think there is appears.
What's this gobbledegook ? Lol

Then teachers r pointless ?
How do people connect?
It's all n my mind!!
No it's all in my mind!!!
Cause u don't exist! Lol

I had a dream that I was kissing a man.
I don't often have sexual dreams & I was
14 at the time. It was the most perfect
kiss I could have experienced. Latter that
night ~ unforeseen circumstances had me
hiding in the bushes with a man & we
kissed & it was exactly like the dream.
Was the desire there before the kiss?
I didn't know him very well.
you are asking me a question to which you already know the answer. If the desire is there the deed will follow in due course. Desire is simply energy, it stirs the consciousness into movement if there is no energy nothing can move.
The desire to communicate is also a movement in consciousness As you well know there are many forms of comunication that enables the self to communicate with itself. This body form is the medium from which all these form of communications can be exercised. So the only teacher you will ever need is the self. If you pay attention to the lessons you will come to know your true nature.

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Angel » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:51 pm

Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:To know all that there is.............is not even on the table. //// Silly x 2

keyhole of a puniverse................that is all there is. ///// Silly x 3

At best you will see your own reflection. ...... No at best I will see reality as best it can be. ///// Silly x 4.

Road Map: 5 is next.
You only see what is in your mind - that's the way you see things which to all intent and purpose is just another point of view amongst many others in your mind. Until you experience the real for yourself even what I say will just be another point of view, theory or idea in your mind. The real is never what we think it to be. It can only be. Which leads me to my final point - Nothing is, only a field of consciousness which everything you think there is appears.
What's this gobbledegook ? Lol

Then teachers r pointless ?
How do people connect?
It's all n my mind!!
No it's all in my mind!!!
Cause u don't exist! Lol

I had a dream that I was kissing a man.
I don't often have sexual dreams & I was
14 at the time. It was the most perfect
kiss I could have experienced. Latter that
night ~ unforeseen circumstances had me
hiding in the bushes with a man & we
kissed & it was exactly like the dream.
Was the desire there before the kiss?
I didn't know him very well.
you are asking me a question to which you already know the answer. If the desire is there the deed will follow in due course. Desire is simply energy, it stirs the consciousness into movement if there is no energy nothing can move.
The desire to communicate is also a movement in consciousness As you well know there are many forms of comunication that enables the self to communicate with itself. This body form is the medium from which all these form of communications can be exercised. So the only teacher you will ever need is the self. If you pay attention to the lessons you will come to know your true nature.
Desire does not equal action. lol
All actions come from desire?
Nobody responds?
You want to talk?
You know where I am. :lol:

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Angel » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:23 am

Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Azania wrote:
Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Azania wrote:We are nothing but consciousness.
No. Simply because unconscious people still exist. :D
How do you decide when and if
they are unconscious ? They may be
just ignoring you.
It is not that they are unconscious or ignoring you because the idea of a state of unconsciousness and ignorance is in consciousness. Like I said you are only consciousness and everything and everywhere is in your consciousness. From the perspective of the unconscious it is just a lapse in memory that is all. If you have been unconscious yourself you remember nothing of it. All that the others can say about it is that you were unresponsive. To you it was just a blank. Do realise we function totally out of our memory, when this memory totally fails or blanks out we call it unconsciousness, when it partially fails and we can no longer recall the content or the information that the consciousness has recorded to memory we call it Alzheimer's or dementia. The moment the consciousness sprouts it is recording information from its environment, it mirrors everything and everything is mirrored in memory, all that you think you know is merely a collections of images that the consciousness has been recording but what happens in real life is not contained in the memory of consciousness it happens spontaneously in the now.
If I am only consciousness then how can I be
unconscious ?
Speak for your own experiences ~ they can toss me around and not get a response but
I remember things from where I go from
my body. Amazzzzzing things!!!!

Like now?
And now?
And now?
I remember typing that and even what
I'm going to type next but it is only in the now?
Memory is now. Consciousness is always. One.
Divided = fail. Multiplied is many of one.

There is nothing wrong with the memory itself, it is the content that creates problems. Like the idea of God. Because there are so many ideas about God we have religious wars. Memory is now but it's content must be recalled. You need not remember now because it is always the case. So when I say I am only consciousness it can only be out of my own experience which can only be now. If I am rendered unconscious it would be impossible for me to say anything about it because of the lapse in memory. Can you say anything about your deep sleep apart from I feel well rested once it's over ? Similarly from the point of my own experience I can only say I am conscious, I cannot say I am unconscious, this also applies to you and everybody else.
In my life ~ God existed before the idea of
God existed just as my family existed
before I knew what they are. Just as
friends exist before they r friends. It's a
Faith thing lol

What's wrong with the content of my memory?
Does it not suite you?
What r witnesses for then?
I have witnesses but they
r chicken and won't speak
with me.
You can't speak for my experience lol
The most you can do is witness it. How good
is your memory?
Do you not think that before any mentation of any kind can occur you must be there first for it to occur to?. Otherwise how can all these thoughts of God, family and friends arise?

The content of your memory is a conflict of interest. There is you as a point of awareness then there is the idea which you have of yourself as a focal point in consciousness. In consciousness all your ideas that you have about yourself, God, family and friends are here. And of course I cannot speak for your experience but for the experiencer I can, for it is only one. What you are in essence and substance I am too, we are one of the same.
Oh ya ~ do u define mental activity as coming
from the brain or the mind?

They existed before I did.
I came to know them.
I am not God. Lol
I'm just the messenger .
You can shoot me but I don't
know what good it will do you.
I am one with ?
I don't quite know yet.
I am one with u when u r one with I.
Can u look in the whites of the eye?
See the light in the dark?
The same substance? That's for science
to prove. The same essence ? Not sure?
Always more questions than time.
Mental activity is the work of the mind. The concept of a brain exists in the mind. Where else could it be, inside your skull? - is a lump of matter.
What keeps you going when you are
out of your mind?
You want to talk?
You know where I am. :lol:

Azania
Access Suspended
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:37 pm

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Azania » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:48 am

Lausten wrote:
Azania wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Assania: Reality IS an externality
Show me or give me an example of something, anything that exists outside of your mind your consciousness and I should be able to see your point. Otherwise your statement is and will remain a contradiction.
Image
I've never been there. I don't know who took this picture. I have no way to prove this exists other than all the history books and all the references I've heard to it and a couple friends who have been there. But they could all be lying. So, go to where those people say this is, and see for yourself. Make sure you do that without me being aware of it.
When I say your world, I mean your world of thoughts and feelings which are personal and private. The world of trees, land, sea, mountains etc etc, is not the problem.
You have not fully understood the position in which you are in. Consciousness is one, it is here and now. always! It does not come from anywhere nor does it go anywhere. The same consciousness that is in you and me is in everything and everywhere. So when you say "I see", it is the consciousness that is seeing as a total. The seer and the seen are mental constructs in the mind of the consciousness. Hence the reason everybody knows what a tree is because the tree is registered in the memory of the consciousness. Now what has happened to the consciousness? Through the mind it has identified itself as an object in the consciousness, now it has become limited and restricted to the idea of an object in your case a body. Now the body is only a bundle a receptors. It's perception is based on its memory. In fact perception is memory. When the consciousness sees it is merely seeing an impersonal reflection of itself. However, through the minds eye it sees according to the perception of the identity of the body or person, then the view point become personal according to one sensual preference, in other words you see what you want to see, what you like or rather don't like. Now because the personal is seen through the mind and not the consciousness the reflection become multifarious, and full of variety. You see yourself as the body personal so that is what will be reflected in your mind giving you the illusion that you are in a world full of other like yourself. But in reality there is only consciousness because you are only consciousness.

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10982
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Post-bloom
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Poodle » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:48 am

Been here before, Azania?

User avatar
Lausten
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Lausten » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:33 pm

Azania wrote:
Lausten wrote:
Azania wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Assania: Reality IS an externality
Show me or give me an example of something, anything that exists outside of your mind your consciousness and I should be able to see your point. Otherwise your statement is and will remain a contradiction.
Image
I've never been there. I don't know who took this picture. I have no way to prove this exists other than all the history books and all the references I've heard to it and a couple friends who have been there. But they could all be lying. So, go to where those people say this is, and see for yourself. Make sure you do that without me being aware of it.
When I say your world, I mean your world of thoughts and feelings which are personal and private. The world of trees, land, sea, mountains etc etc, is not the problem.
So you're saying that what is in my consciousness is in my consciousness. Mmm. How long did it take you to figure that out? Now, are you going to address Bobbo's statement?
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Arguing against religion

Post by Angel » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:02 pm

In defence of God~
Everything is a lie.
10% of every lie is truth.
God is truth.
10% of everything is God.
I am looking for the 10% of
God that is in *U*
Wake up God.
You want to talk?
You know where I am. :lol: