Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

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Rob Lister
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Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Rob Lister » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:52 pm

I'm reminded of the threads on that other forum about solving the world's overpopulation problems. This might be one solution.
In an extraordinary and sobering report meant to educate the nation on a growing threat, a new military study warns that an electromagnetic pulse weapon attack such as those developed by North Korea, Russia, and Iran could essentially challenge the United States and displace millions.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... orld-order

I'm not sure why they feel the need to name names. But if they're going to, there are a lot more names they should add to that list.

snip
While it is focused on the devastating impact an EMP hit would have on the military, it appears to support a congressional warning that up to 90 percent of the population on the East Coast would die in a year of an attack that would dismantle or interfere with electricity, transportation, food processing, and healthcare.
90% is a little pessimistic. Or optimistic! depending on your personal geography.
* 99 nuclear reactors would likely melt down without electricity to cool them.
I would be surprised to learn that reactors don't have EMP hardened infrastructure. It ain't hard on small scales. But maybe they're not lying. For sure almost all your computers are going to be toast.

Here's a nice test the Soviets did on their own population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_e ... t_Test_184

90%? I don't know. But certainly far more effective than that Ebola solution we looked at.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Poodle » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:53 pm

Mr. Lister!!! Welcome back ...

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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:59 pm

Nuclear Reactors would be able to shut down. Grids could be rebuilt quickly for the critical parts. Food could be shipped in.
TBH, an EMP would provide the clean slate that US infrastructure might need to rebuild instead of patching.
After WW2, European manufacturing could go straight to the the latest technology, because there was nothing left to upgrade.

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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:09 pm

Off hand, sounds like more Chicken Little Weapons of Mass Destruction BS from the deep state/MIC.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 am

We've been aware of this since 1962. https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles ... as-a-doozy
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:38 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 am
We've been aware of this since 1962. https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles ... as-a-doozy
Gawdzilla is right. Early nukes were battlefield nukes to destroy waves of Warsaw Pact tanks heading West. As EMP would knock out tank,s regardless of physical damage tanks since the 60s are "NBC" (Nuclear Biological Chemical) and EMP resistant.

Some Russian fighter bombers in the 60s were still using valve back up systems as they, themselves, would suffer EMP after dropping a nuke on a battlefield. The USA was already way ahead in its anti EMP technology. ("Lead" )

In the 60's the Russians thought that they did not need accurate ICBMs as they could explode regular high airburst nukes over USA silos and the EMP would stop the USA launching their retaliation ICBMs. The USA simply made its silo based ICBMs "EMP" resistant.

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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:03 am

"Hardened silos". Creepy to visit.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:17 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:03 am
"Hardened silos". Creepy to visit.
I've never seen a ICBM silo. I'd really like to have a look one day.

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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:12 am

We need a few little dry runs to make us appreciate how vulnerable we are.

About a week without the internet should do it.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:20 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:38 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 am
We've been aware of this since 1962. https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles ... as-a-doozy
Gawdzilla is right. Early nukes were battlefield nukes to destroy waves of Warsaw Pact tanks heading West. As EMP would knock out tank,s regardless of physical damage tanks since the 60s are "NBC" (Nuclear Biological Chemical) and EMP resistant.

Some Russian fighter bombers in the 60s were still using valve back up systems as they, themselves, would suffer EMP after dropping a nuke on a battlefield. The USA was already way ahead in its anti EMP technology. ("Lead" )

In the 60's the Russians thought that they did not need accurate ICBMs as they could explode regular high airburst nukes over USA silos and the EMP would stop the USA launching their retaliation ICBMs. The USA simply made its silo based ICBMs "EMP" resistant.
When the Nazis overran France in 1940, the Allies were still thinking in WWI tactics, and were quickly overwhelmed by the the modern tactics of Blitzkrieg. The next war is unlikely to be fought with waves of tanks, fighters or even missiles. Those are the tactics of the 1960s. We need to prepare for the latest threats, including EMPs, cyber attacks and robotic air and land drones, to name a few.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 am

Operation Outside the Box, the Israeli airstrike on a Syrian Nuclear Reactor in 2007 might be a template for the kind of war we will see in the future.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outside_the_Box

It involved heavy use of Electronic Warfare and Drones to fool air defenses, as well as possible Cyber attacks to kill off part of the defenses.
Bottom line: a sufficiently motivated and equipped opponent will be able to execute deep-penetration attacks on critical targets even in the presence of strong defenses.

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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:18 am

landrew wrote: When the Nazis overran France in 1940, the Allies were still thinking in WWI tactics, and were quickly overwhelmed by the the modern tactics of Blitzkrieg. The next war is unlikely to be fought with waves of tanks, fighters or even missiles. Those are the tactics of the 1960s. We need to prepare for the latest threats, including EMPs, cyber attacks and robotic air and land drones, to name a few.
That maybe, but the current Russian insurgency in Ukraine is still very much using tanks and AFVs with small arms. The Syrian war is also still fought with tanks and AFVs. The same for Yemen.

Tanks sought of died out in the 60's but then came laminate armour and a reintroduction of German WWII "skirting" on tanks to defeat hollow charged weapons. Tanks are back in again. The Russian just brought in their new T-4 tank.

(Laminate armour is endless thin layers of ceramic, hardened steel and carbon fiber that can withstand hollow charged weapons. The USA M1-Abrams tank has it. Russian extreme high velocity solid core shells don't penetrate the armour but rather breaks the turret ring.

German WWII skirt armour simply placed a thin metal shield around the tanks own armour. It caused shaped charged shells to explode early and lose focus before hitting the main tank. The British, Germans and Russians now use "slat" armour to do the same thing.)
Slat armour.jpg
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:17 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:17 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:03 am
"Hardened silos". Creepy to visit.
I've never seen a ICBM silo. I'd really like to have a look one day.
There are tours.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:30 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:18 am
landrew wrote: When the Nazis overran France in 1940, the Allies were still thinking in WWI tactics, and were quickly overwhelmed by the the modern tactics of Blitzkrieg. The next war is unlikely to be fought with waves of tanks, fighters or even missiles. Those are the tactics of the 1960s. We need to prepare for the latest threats, including EMPs, cyber attacks and robotic air and land drones, to name a few.
That maybe, but the current Russian insurgency in Ukraine is still very much using tanks and AFVs with small arms. The Syrian war is also still fought with tanks and AFVs. The same for Yemen.

Tanks sought of died out in the 60's but then came laminate armour and a reintroduction of German WWII "skirting" on tanks to defeat hollow charged weapons. Tanks are back in again. The Russian just brought in their new T-4 tank.

(Laminate armour is endless thin layers of ceramic, hardened steel and carbon fiber that can withstand hollow charged weapons. The USA M1-Abrams tank has it. Russian extreme high velocity solid core shells don't penetrate the armour but rather breaks the turret ring.

German WWII skirt armour simply placed a thin metal shield around the tanks own armour. It caused shaped charged shells to explode early and lose focus before hitting the main tank. The British, Germans and Russians now use "slat" armour to do the same thing.)Slat armour.jpg
Ukraine is not a new world war (not yet) but according to Putin it's some sort of police action to protect Russians.

Armour-piercing shells have made armour nearly obsolete since WWII. Modern laminate armour is largely designed to fend off small weapons attacks. The Leopard tank, widely regarded as one of the best, has traded armour for speed and is lightly armoured.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Suggest review of sabot-discarding AT shells.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:06 am

landrew wrote: Armour-piercing shells have made armour nearly obsolete since WWII.
I just explained in detail how that was reversed in the late 1960s with Chobham ( Laminate) Armour.
landrew wrote: Modern laminate armour is largely designed to fend off small weapons attacks.
That's not true. . Small arms can't hit a tank 6 kilometers away and all tanks carry hollow charge munitions for their main weapon for exactly that reason. Shaped charge shells do not need high velocity to pierce armour and are best for long distance action.
landrew wrote: The Leopard tank, widely regarded as one of the best, has traded armour for speed and is lightly armoured.
The Leopard 1 tank didn't have laminate armour and was retired by all modern armies. The Leopard 2 weighs 63 metric tons compared to the Russian T-4 at 48 metric tons. It is the Russian tanks that are light and fast.

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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:42 pm

It appears your car is probably safe.
We tested a sample of 37 cars in an EMP simulation laboratory, with automobile vintages ranging from 1986 through 2002. Automobiles of these vintages include extensive electronics and represent a significant fraction of automobiles on the road today. The testing was conducted by exposing running and nonrunning automobiles to sequentially increasing EMP field intensities. If anomalous response (either temporary or permanent) was observed, the testing of that particular automobile was stopped. If no anomalous response was observed, the testing was continued up to the field intensity limits of the simulation capability (approximately 50 kV/m).

Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively . Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.

Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below 25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more of the automobiles exposed to higher field levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the road will manifest some nuisance response at these higher field levels. The serious malfunctions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be triggered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the consequent loss of life, and multiple injuries.
www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by landrew » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:14 pm

I don't think we can account for the magnitude of an electromagnetic pulse that is likely to be used in a deliberate attack. If used, it would certainly be designed to be powerful enough to knock out most electronics. Running tests using EMP and declaring things "safe" is meaningless in my opinion.

Even a natural event like the Carrington Event of 1859 would have had devastating effects were it to happen nowadays, so there's no telling how powerful a nuclear-based "EMP bomb" would be, but suffice to say, it would likely be powerful enough to achieve most of that for which it was designed.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Gord » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:27 am

Rob Lister wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:42 pm
Other effects were relatively .
:befuddled: Relatively what?

I think they left out a word.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Rob Lister » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:11 am

It's a minor word.
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Re: Military warns EMP attack could wipe out America

Post by Gord » Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:47 am

So, under the age of consent?
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