Personal proof of quantum immortality?

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Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:58 am

Hi All,
I am new here and my post will be unusual.
Would like to ask Your opinion about some strong claim.One person claim to have personal proof of so-called 'quantum immortality' of Many Worlds interpretation of QM.
Please,look here:

https://voxcorvegis.wordpress.com/2014/ ... ty-and-me/

"Speculation in this direction always leads me back to the same question: under what circumstances would you start to regard this hypothesis as being true? Under what circumstances do you think that it would be reasonable to start believing that you could never die?

From my own personal experience, I can honestly say that I would need to be at least three hundred years older than anyone else I knew of, and I would need to have survived at least ten major events which, by rights should have killed me.

“My own personal experience,” did I say? Why yes, I did. You see, circumstances have recently conspired to convince me, by the standard of proof that I have just named, that I cannot die. I am already more than four hundred years old, and just yesterday I withstood my tenth all-but-fatal event–an unfortunate run in with a locomotive, which, “miraculously,” left me with only a few scratches. Add to that my nine of previous bouts with death (which need hardly be described at this juncture, but which include such notable episodes as contracting typhus, being shipwrecked, and charging with the light brigade) and I don’t think that I am being unreasonable in supposing that I am living proof of immortality.
Quote:
It’s hard to nail down a firm date for when I was born–changes in the calendar and such– but my mother always told me that it was the summer before the Spanish Armada set sail for England, which would put the year at 1587. It’s hard not to slip into a sort of vulgar solipsism when life seems so subjective, but after a few centuries, you start to get the hang of it.

Try not to be surprised; when you think about it, this makes a lot of sense. How else, after all, would I manage to know so many obscure facts about history but from having lived through it?"

But I wonder if it is not elaborate joke.After all it was posted on April Fool's Day .And he ends with that:

"So why, you ask, am I revealing all of this to you now? I can say only that it feels good to get this confession off of my chest–and to do it on the one day when I know for a fact that it will have no lasting repercussions, for the very simple reason that no one will believe me.
The one day known as “April Fools Day"

Caution: tags include Fiction,Blatant Lies,April Fool's Day

Any thoughts?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:18 am

Trick or treat?
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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:19 am

What do you mean?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:23 am

You did notice the line at the end and the date the post was made? (EDIT: I note that you did).

Even so (and if I remember correctly) the Many Worlds conjecture has a limit - and that is the natural lifespan of a human being. At some point, you die of natural causes. OK, a natural lifespan may be much longer than we exhibit at present, but 400 years is pushing the durability of the human body to ridiculous extremes. We wear out eventually.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:25 am

Poodle wrote:You did notice the line at the end and the date the post was made? (EDIT: I note that you did).

Even so (and if I remember correctly) the Many Worlds conjecture has a limit - and that is the natural lifespan of a human being. At some point, you die of natural causes. OK, a natural lifespan may be much longer than we exhibit at present, but 400 years is pushing the durability of the human body to ridiculous extremes. We wear out eventually.
Yes I did notice that.A also noticed that in Tags it included Fiction and Blatant Lines.And the notion that he is 400 years old sounds ...well,just absurd.How it can be?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:35 am

Alexander1304 wrote:
Poodle wrote:You did notice the line at the end and the date the post was made? (EDIT: I note that you did).

Even so (and if I remember correctly) the Many Worlds conjecture has a limit - and that is the natural lifespan of a human being. At some point, you die of natural causes. OK, a natural lifespan may be much longer than we exhibit at present, but 400 years is pushing the durability of the human body to ridiculous extremes. We wear out eventually.
Yes I did notice that.A also noticed that in Tags it included Fiction and Blatant Lines.And the notion that he is 400 years old sounds ...well,just absurd.How it can be?
It can't be - that was my point. Even if it is possible in the future for a human to live to be 400 years old (and that is not very likely) it has not been possible to date. Nature gets you long before that. Anyone born in the 16th or 17th centuries has not had access to miraculous medicinal techniques. Their buckets would have been well and truly kicked by now regardless of how many accidental death situations caused a word-split.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:38 am

Poodle wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:
Poodle wrote:You did notice the line at the end and the date the post was made? (EDIT: I note that you did).

Even so (and if I remember correctly) the Many Worlds conjecture has a limit - and that is the natural lifespan of a human being. At some point, you die of natural causes. OK, a natural lifespan may be much longer than we exhibit at present, but 400 years is pushing the durability of the human body to ridiculous extremes. We wear out eventually.
Yes I did notice that.A also noticed that in Tags it included Fiction and Blatant Lines.And the notion that he is 400 years old sounds ...well,just absurd.How it can be?
It can't be - that was my point. Even if it is possible in the future for a human to live to be 400 years old (and that is not very likely) it has not been possible to date. Nature gets you long before that. Anyone born in the 16th or 17th centuries has not had access to miraculous medicinal techniques. Their buckets would have been well and truly kicked by now regardless of how many accidental death situations caused a word-split.
But listen - he asked his mother when he was born and then concludes that it was in 1500 something. Doesn't sound absurd?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:46 am

Alexander1304 wrote:But listen - he asked his mother when he was born and then concludes that it was in 1500 something. Doesn't sound absurd?
It's just possible that the author may have been lying, don't you think?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:48 am

Poodle wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:But listen - he asked his mother when he was born and then concludes that it was in 1500 something. Doesn't sound absurd?
It's just possible that the author may have been lying, don't you think?
In tags of the article appears: Blatant Lies

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:50 am

I'm confused, Alexander. Do you think the story is absurd or do you think there may be some truth in it?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:52 am

Alexander1304 wrote:
Poodle wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:But listen - he asked his mother when he was born and then concludes that it was in 1500 something. Doesn't sound absurd?
It's just possible that the author may have been lying, don't you think?
In tags of the article appears: Blatant Lies.Look,first he sets that what would convince him is that he is at least 300 hundreds years older than everybody and at least 10 lucky events escaping death.And suddenly he realizes that he is 400 years old and gets these lucky events

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:53 am

Poodle wrote:I'm confused, Alexander. Do you think the story is absurd or do you think there may be some truth in it?
You know,I am gullible and easy believing.I believe he might have these 10 events of escaping death but 400 years old?...I believe him therefore I am here hoping that people will convince me to be more skeptical about him

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:55 am

Alexander1304 wrote:
Poodle wrote:I'm confused, Alexander. Do you think the story is absurd or do you think there may be some truth in it?
You know,I am gullible and easy believing.I believe he might have these 10 events of escaping death but 400 years old?...I believe him therefore I am here hoping that people will convince me to be more skeptical about him.I am also baffled when he says that it makes great sense that he is 400 y.o,i.e. how else he could have such extended knowledge?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:59 am

OK. Let's pick fault with the story. The Armada set sail from Lisbon in 1588, not 1587. The change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar doesn't affect that. Immediately, then, there's an error in his 'extended knowledge' - and note that he only claims to have such knowledge rather than proving it.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:06 am

Poodle wrote:OK. Let's pick fault with the story. The Armada set sail from Lisbon in 1588, not 1597. The change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar doesn't affect that. Immediately, then, there's an error in his 'extended knowledge' - and note that he only claims to have such knowledge rather than proving it.
And it his mother told him about Armada, so he is older than his mother ?His mother then also should be very old person.
Regarding his last claim that nobody will believe him because of April Fool. It can be understood in 2 ways.Or he is serious and regrets that others will not believe him,or he admits that he is joking.Well,in tag appears Blatant Lies

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:09 am

Naturally his mother would have told him during her lifetime - when he was younger. But since it's all baloney, that also never happened.


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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:12 am

Wow,only 3 of us in the thread? I expected more lively discussion,and hoped that more people will tell me that it is all BS.If he is 400 y.e. he should be put in museum...or at least be investigated scientifically.Such unique case :D

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:08 am

I woke up this morning and read the rest of the 'immortal's' site, and found these ...

"I’ve recently completed my Master’s degree in theoretical physics from a major Canadian university, and I have a BA in mediaeval history, but what I really want to be is a writer."

"Studying history gave me this wonderful feeling that the past, made up as it was of innumerable worlds now vanished, was somehow still sitting there, lurking just outside of reach; like I could practically touch the textiles being carried to market by Italian merchants, or feel the fires in an old stone monastery keeping the monks warm."

I think that adequately explains the situation.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:18 am

Poodle wrote:I woke up this morning and read the rest of the 'immortal's' site, and found these ...

"I’ve recently completed my Master’s degree in theoretical physics from a major Canadian university, and I have a BA in mediaeval history, but what I really want to be is a writer."

"Studying history gave me this wonderful feeling that the past, made up as it was of innumerable worlds now vanished, was somehow still sitting there, lurking just outside of reach; like I could practically touch the textiles being carried to market by Italian merchants, or feel the fires in an old stone monastery keeping the monks warm."

I think that adequately explains the situation.
Hi Poodle.Glad to see you back.It means he is loonie? :).His claim of being 400 years old I pass.I just don't know what to do with his claims about fatal events when he stayed alive...
Last edited by Alexander1304 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:24 am

No, I don't think so. I'd suggest that it may be a very brief synopsis of something intended to become a novel.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:27 am

Poodle wrote:No, I don't think so. I'd suggest that it may be a very brief synopsis of something intended to become a novel.
What to do with his claims about fatal events where he managed to be alive?Does it prove something?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:31 am

Ah - there is a new addition to the site.

Alexander - go to Home and then read the latest bit, called "Back to haunt me".

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:35 am

I'll do,but I'm still disturbed with the number of his arguments

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Hex » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:43 am

Alexander1304 wrote: What to do with his claims about fatal events where he managed to be alive?Does it prove something?
Last night I chopped down this large oak tree in my backyard. I was too tired after chopping it down that I thought I'd leave it till the next day and cut it up into logs then move it all to my woodshed. Of course I'll take the smaller branches and put them through my wood chipper and make some mulch for my yard.

Funny thing is, this morning when I woke up the tree was standing where it was before, seemingly untouched and the surrounding area where it had fallen also looks undisturbed.

Should I chop the tree down again? I mean it was a lot of work and if it is just going to stand up again I don't want to bother.
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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:14 pm

See,he became convinced that he will never die,and brings arguments about tat from personal experience.That's what bothers me

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Hex » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:30 pm

Alexander1304 wrote:See,he became convinced that he will never die,and brings arguments about tat from personal experience.That's what bothers me
Did nothing in my post bring about any questions you might have? I mean if it didn't then I don't think I can help you.
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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:01 pm

Hex wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:See,he became convinced that he will never die,and brings arguments about tat from personal experience.That's what bothers me
Did nothing in my post bring about any questions you might have? I mean if it didn't then I don't think I can help you.
No,it didn't

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:03 pm

Alexander1304 wrote:See,he became convinced that he will never die,and brings arguments about tat from personal experience.That's what bothers me
You're not thinking about this in the right way, Alexander. Quantum mechanics, whether the Many Worlds interpretation (and it's merely one interpretation amongst many) is correct or not, does not confer immortality on anyone. It merely means that, theoretically, every time a person is in a 50-50 probability situation, both events occur and the universe therefore splits into two versions of reality. It doesn't take long before there are gazillions of different universes. But death itself is not a quantum phenomenon - any person travelling along these multiple reality lines is ageing just as fast as he would if there were only one universe. When you're old and worn out enough, you die, and that's as real an event whether you exist in multiple versions or just the one.

There is no 'reset' of age - you remain as old as you are and, as sure as eggs is eggs, you're going to die eventually around about the normal age for doing such a thing. We have no 400-year-old people in this world, so why would they exist in any other? If what you're thinking was true, our world would have millions - billions - of immortals walking around it.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:11 pm

Poodle wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:See,he became convinced that he will never die,and brings arguments about tat from personal experience.That's what bothers me
You're not thinking about this in the right way, Alexander. Quantum mechanics, whether the Many Worlds interpretation (and it's merely one interpretation amongst many) is correct or not, does not confer immortality on anyone. It merely means that, theoretically, every time a person is in a 50-50 probability situation, both events occur and the universe therefore splits into two versions of reality. It doesn't take long before there are gazillions of different universes. But death itself is not a quantum phenomenon - any person travelling along these multiple reality lines is ageing just as fast as he would if there were only one universe. When you're old and worn out enough, you die, and that's as real an event whether you exist in multiple versions or just the one.

There is no 'reset' of age - you remain as old as you are and, as sure as eggs is eggs, you're going to die eventually around about the normal age for doing such a thing. We have no 400-year-old people in this world, so why would they exist in any other?
That's all and nice,Poodle,but what bothers me is that: he undergone 10 situations where he had to die but luckily stayed alive.This is 'proof' of immortality(according to him)

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:18 pm

No. According to the Many Worlds interpretation, he did both. In each situation, he died (creating one universe) and he survived (creating another). As I explained above, this theoretical situation occurs ONLY if the Many Worlds interpretation is correct. Google for 'Quantum mechanics interpretations' and you'll find a lot of other, equally logical but very different, interpretations.

The author himself has said that it was all an April Fools joke. Why won't you believe him?

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:21 pm

Poodle wrote:No. According to the Many Worlds interpretation, he did both. In each situation, he died (creating one universe) and he survived (creating another). As I explained above, this theoretical situation occurs ONLY if the Many Worlds interpretation is correct. Google for 'Quantum mechanics interpretations' and you'll find a lot of other, equally logical but very different, interpretations.

The author himself has said that it was all an April Fools joke. Why won't you believe him?
I thought he didn't say it was joke, he just said that nobody will believe him because of April Fools day

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:24 pm

You didn't do what I asked - have another look at his site under Home.

This is what he said ...

"So apparently, after years of sitting inert, one of my old April Fool’s Day posts is suddenly getting heavy traffic because a commentator on a skeptical website is apparently citing it as serious evidence in favour of quantum immortality. This being the post, need I remind you, in which I claim to be secretly four hundred and twenty-seven years old, incapable of dying, and Virginia Woolf’s inspiration for Orlando: A Biography.

Well, let me clear the air for any new visitors: this post was an April Fool’s Day joke, and I’m afraid, only particularly funny to people who actually know me in person. I am a legitimate theoretical physicist, with a Master’s Degree and everything, but I don’t really believe in quantum immortality beyond the extent to which I believe that it could be a good plot device in a science fiction story. My genuine opinions on quantum theory can be found here and here.

So no; I am, to the best of my knowledge, not 400 years old because of a quirk of one interpretation of quantum mechanics; and you should be glad that I’m not, because it would mean that the universe would be my personal solipsistic fantasy and you would all be the supporting characters."

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:33 pm

Poodle wrote:You didn't do what I asked - have another look at his site under Home.

This is what he said ...

"So apparently, after years of sitting inert, one of my old April Fool’s Day posts is suddenly getting heavy traffic because a commentator on a skeptical website is apparently citing it as serious evidence in favour of quantum immortality. This being the post, need I remind you, in which I claim to be secretly four hundred and twenty-seven years old, incapable of dying, and Virginia Woolf’s inspiration for Orlando: A Biography.

Well, let me clear the air for any new visitors: this post was an April Fool’s Day joke, and I’m afraid, only particularly funny to people who actually know me in person. I am a legitimate theoretical physicist, with a Master’s Degree and everything, but I don’t really believe in quantum immortality beyond the extent to which I believe that it could be a good plot device in a science fiction story. My genuine opinions on quantum theory can be found here and here.

So no; I am, to the best of my knowledge, not 400 years old because of a quirk of one interpretation of quantum mechanics; and you should be glad that I’m not, because it would mean that the universe would be my personal solipsistic fantasy and you would all be the supporting characters."
Ah,NOW You hit the nail :) .Thank You

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:55 pm

I'm glad to see that you echoed that on IS forum, Alexander.

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Monster » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:14 pm

Alexander1304 wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:
Poodle wrote:I'm confused, Alexander. Do you think the story is absurd or do you think there may be some truth in it?
You know,I am gullible and easy believing.I believe he might have these 10 events of escaping death but 400 years old?...I believe him therefore I am here hoping that people will convince me to be more skeptical about him.I am also baffled when he says that it makes great sense that he is 400 y.o,i.e. how else he could have such extended knowledge?
The article is false.
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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:15 pm

Monster wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:
Alexander1304 wrote:
Poodle wrote:I'm confused, Alexander. Do you think the story is absurd or do you think there may be some truth in it?
You know,I am gullible and easy believing.I believe he might have these 10 events of escaping death but 400 years old?...I believe him therefore I am here hoping that people will convince me to be more skeptical about him.I am also baffled when he says that it makes great sense that he is 400 y.o,i.e. how else he could have such extended knowledge?
The article is false.
The article was joke.Anyway,I am MWI/immortality obsessed,so expect more threads from me about that in the future :)

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:21 pm

Alex, I'm confused. You post an article and ask for help in refuting it but now tell us you think the article is a joke? Evidently worth trolling as you are obsessed with immortality? ...And more will come?......At least you warned us.
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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Alexander1304 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:26 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Alex, I'm confused. You post an article and ask for help in refuting it but now tell us you think the article is a joke? Evidently worth trolling as you are obsessed with immortality? ...And more will come?......At least you warned us.
Don't be confused.Yes ,eventually I thought that article was true,but as Poodle pointed me out at original website,quthor himself admitted that it was joke.Yes,I warned You - threads about MWI/immortality will come :)

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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by Hex » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:29 pm

Alexander1304 wrote:The article was joke.Anyway,I am MWI/immortality obsessed,so expect more threads from me about that in the future :)
It is really too bad you couldn't even come up with one question about my post. I was hoping it'd help you when reading things like the article you originally posted so you wouldn't have to come here with more posts that are similar.
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Re: Personal proof of quantum immortality?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:36 pm

Alex: why are you interested in immortality?
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