The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

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Now for the Movie of Zeuzzz's book.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:26 am

Zeuzzz Versus Matthew : The Movie
In this dramatic scene, Matthew, brilliantly disguised as a young woman, sneaks into the lair of Zeuzzz, a drug crazed monster, who has expanded his Pineal gland through excessive use of Magic Mushrooms.


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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:40 am

^ that is what I mean about getting frantic without discussing the over-arching issues.

Soldier on, cowboy. But the more you do the above, the less seriously people here will take you.

I did warn you of this before.

Meanwhile me and digress were having a discussion.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:45 am

PS: Digress, you avatars have been great before, even enticing like I stated previously, but your current one ... meh. What series/film is it from? I'm waaay behind on my anime nowadays.

I feel a change is due :)
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:50 am

zeuzzz wrote:
digress wrote: "it's likely, but certain" speak.
It's certain (see above) that it's produced in our brains as an active metabolite.

It's highly likely that our ancestors used such agents in the past to change their consciousness.

You following me now?

I can elaborate further.

Just ask. And ignore Matt, if I were you. He's starting to get frantic. And became unproductive in these kind of discussions long ago.

Unless he brings up a good point, then feel free to quote him.
Highly likely? That's your opinion, zeuzzz - it's certainly not in your illustrative quotations above. That's sneaky.

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:51 am

zeuzzz wrote:^ that is what I mean about getting frantic without discussing the over-arching issues.
There are no over-arching issues, Zeuzzz. No one has found DMT in the Pineal gland. You are simply having one of your delusional episodes. I imagine you currently think 54,000 people are agreeing with you on Facebook or whatever the voices are telling you today.

Anyhow, you have to move over. we have a new Zeuzzz. Edgar Prostado has discovered a new form of evolution and has promised to explain it to us, but keeps diverting (sound familiar?) :D

Join us and see if you can get him to answer a direct question before he runs away, like you do. :D

Edgar Prostado : The New Zeuzzz.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=26145

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:09 am

zeuzzz wrote:It's highly likely that our ancestors used such agents in the past to change their consciousness.
Why?
.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:18 am

Ok lets go back to basics, since above I sense crossed wires, and jumping to premature inferences based on what I am saying.

Imagine that 20,000 years ago you are a primate in and African rain-forest.

Your previous arboreal canopy dwelling habitat has started to dry up, thus you start expanding you diet by trying all sorts of new nutritional foods on the grasslands.

Can we agree on the above?
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:25 am

Why? 20,000 years ago was 5000 years later than the earliest known full human permanent habitation. It's in Moravia, a long way from either a rain forest or a sanannah.

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:25 am

zeuzzz wrote: Imagine that 20,000 years ago you are a primate in and African rain-forest. Your previous arboreal canopy dwelling habitat has started to dry up,
You are an idiot Zeuzzz. This happened 5,000,000 years ago.
zeuzzz wrote: thus you start expanding you diet by trying all sorts of new nutritional foods on the grasslands.

Which specific fossil teeth and Australopithecine are you talking about? Can you identify the specific vegetarian hominids? Why did they die out? :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:30 am

Poodle wrote:Why? 20,000 years ago was 5000 years later than the earliest known full human permanent habitation. It's in Moravia, a long way from either a rain forest or a sanannah.
It get's worse. Zeuzzz claims that because magic mushrooms disappeared from Africa 12,000 years ago, all civilisation reverted to brutal dominance hierarchies.

However modern humans were painting happily away in Europe 40,000 years ago, where magic mushrooms never disappeared. Zeuzzz is bat-{!#%@} crazy.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:31 am

lol totally pointless to even begin a discussion on a level playing field here.

Both of your replies were non sequiturs, not even based on anything I've yet said in this thread.

I give up for tonight.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:33 am

zeuzzz wrote:Ok lets go back to basics, since above I sense crossed wires, and jumping to premature inferences based on what I am saying.

Imagine that 20,000 years ago you are a primate in and African rain-forest.

Your previous arboreal canopy dwelling habitat has started to dry up, thus you start expanding you diet by trying all sorts of new nutritional foods on the grasslands.

Can we agree on the above?
???

What's this, then?

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:33 am

zeuzzz wrote: I give up for tonight.
Try make it for ten years and we have a deal! :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:14 am

zeuzzz wrote: I feel a change is due
The David Icke forum is that way......... :D
http://forum.davidicke.com/

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:49 pm

Why is Matt bring up 5,000,000 years time range after I simply asked a hypothetical question about primates some 20,000 years ago?

And why is Poodle bringing up Moravia (not in Africa) and also the date 15,000 years ago; when I simply asked us to consider a hypothetical question 20,000 years ago?

Surely the logical straw man esque fallacies of the above replies are so self evidenct I don't even need to name them all.

This is another thread I can quickly see getting ruined by Matt, instead of being productive. Ok fine, you wont even contemplate my hypothetical situation. Don't then. We'll stop there. And end the thread.

I guess I will have to start a new one soon. Unless Digress, the most reasonable poster here to far, wants to post something more here, this thread will go nowhere interesting, and probably end up devolving into the same kind of reactionary hyperbole the 'stoned ape' one did.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:06 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
zeuzzz wrote:It's highly likely that our ancestors used such agents in the past to change their consciousness.
Why?
Lets consider the counterpoint.

You are seriously suggesting that primates, ponto-hominids and our distant ancestors in pre-history did not make use of what ever conscious changing agents they found in their local environment?

To me that is the more absurd argument than denying they ever did. You could even do a statistical analysis on this, extrapolating from current cultures into the past. Drug use, even in recent documented history let alone pre-history, throughout nearly every culture, is a constant it's so prevalent; no matter what the agent is.

Are you seriosly claiming otherwise?
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:13 pm

Anyone up for coming along to this with me? I'm going traveling soon, might pop in via my end destination peru if I can find a good ticket with a USA stop en route, as I've found out that most flights to Peru tend to go via the US. Well, the cheaper ones anyway.

Psychedelics in Psychiatry

It's at Harvard medical institute in Boston; might go alone. But company would be nice, before I go traveling up Machu Picchu. I've two tickets reserved for just £10. Will need to be finalized by next week.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:29 pm

I brought up the point about your 20,000 years ago date (and not in collusion with Matt) because by that time, Homo sapiens sapiens was a well-established fact, already building permanent habits and making artefacts and certainly with a long-established linguistic skill. Why would any such animal need to find a consciousness-expanding substance? Your dating is way out. Did you mean 200,000 years, perhaps?

I brought up Moravia because that, at 25,000 years ago, is where the earliest-known permanent human habitation happened to be. Is this somehow inconvenient to your theory? Being a fact, that would be awkward.

Please be more careful in the accuracy of your posts, zeuzzz.

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:45 pm

My post had nothing to do with linguistic skills, agricultural genesis of the species, or anything like that. That was merely assumed by others.

My question was a very straight forward and simple one. As it relates to how diets can effect Darwinian evolution due to mutagenic selections of new foods and diets under new nutritional pressures. I could have said 500,000 years ago. It makes no difference. I was trying to make a general point. Yet all I got were a bunch of non sequiturs and knee jerk reactions.

Still no-one has answered my hypothetical question yet, to make this thread a productive discussion rather than an argument.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:57 pm

OK - if that's the way you want it. Which primate were you talking about which was inhabiting an African rain forest 20,000 years ago and moved out onto the savannah as a result of food pressure? Your choices are extremely limited, given that we're discussing reality rather than wishful thinking.

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:06 pm

The human primate. We are talking 20,000. Not 2,000,000 here.

ie, Homo Sapiens.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:15 pm

zeuzzz wrote:The human primate. We are talking 20,000. Not 2,000,000 here.

ie, Homo Sapiens.
But, as I pointed out, they'd already upped and gone, reaching central Europe 5000 years before your selected date. What is your point?

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:20 pm

zeuzzz wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
zeuzzz wrote:It's highly likely that our ancestors used such agents in the past to change their consciousness.
Why?
Lets consider the counterpoint.

You are seriously suggesting that primates, ponto-hominids and our distant ancestors in pre-history did not make use of what ever conscious changing agents they found in their local environment?

To me that is the more absurd argument than denying they ever did. You could even do a statistical analysis on this, extrpolating from current cultures into the past. Drug use, even in recent documented history let alone pre-history, throughout nearly every culture, is a constant it's so prevalent; no matter what the agent is.

Are you claiming otherwise?
I (and I'm fairly certain nor anyone else) can see any such suggestions or arguments in my simple question.

Here's another one: What for? Besides the 20,000-years-ago scenario as described appearing quite absurd, what purpose does such a fable serve to modern research intended to assist modern man?
.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:21 pm

zeuzzz wrote:Why is Matt bring up 5,000,000 years time range after I simply asked a hypothetical question about primates some 20,000 years ago?
Firstly, because we already have a real example and real facts and do not need your totally bogus "hypothetical", that takes simply us further away from reality. Secondly, because you haven't got a clue when savannah replaced rain forest in Africa. It was 5,000,000 years ago, not 20,000.

Your turn
Why are you bringing up DMT in the Pineal gland, when no scientist has ever found DMT in the Pineal gland? :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:31 pm

zeuzzz wrote: You are seriously suggesting that primates, ponto-hominids and our distant ancestors in pre-history did not make use of what ever conscious changing agents they found in their local environment?
Yes. For example. Hemlock, Nightshade, White snakeroot, Castor beans, Death cap mushrooms and so on. They are also poisons. :D

Zeuzzz, you do realise that street LSD is cut with strychnine?

Hey Zeuzzz, can you describe for me the evolutionary path of fungivores? Why didn't they evolve language first? :mrgreen:

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:37 pm

zeuzzz wrote:The human primate. We are talking 20,000. Not 2,000,000 here. ie, Homo Sapiens.
Homo sapiens are 195,000 years old and fully evolved 20,000 year ago. You really don't have a clue do you, Zeuzzz? :D

Homo floresiensis was still around 12,000 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:49 pm

Poodle wrote:But, as I pointed out, they'd already upped and gone, reaching central Europe 5000 years before your selected date. What is your point?
Modern humans had already occupied Central Europe 50,000 years ago. There are 40,000 year old paintings in Spain & France. Zeuzzz refuses to acknowledge that. It's simply bizarre cult behaviour. If Zeuzzz accepts that modern humans left Africa before 12,000 years ago, then he has to dismiss his cult claim that all human civilisation reverted to "Brutal Dominance hierarchies" when magic mushrooms disappeared from Africa 12,000 year ago. ( Zeuzzz will run away from this point)
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I assume Zeuzzz thinks the European cave paintings are fake or made by aliens. His cult literature does not acknowledge them at all. It's a a bit like Christians saying all fossils are a "test by god" of their faith. Zeuzzz is basically a religious person defending his religious cult. :D
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:00 pm

zeuzzz wrote: My question was a very straight forward and simple one. As it relates to how diets can effect Darwinian evolution due to mutagenic selections of new foods and diets under new nutritional pressures.

Name one example of any animal, eating a particular thing, because it consciously thought it eating that thing, would cause new genetic mutations? :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:12 pm

Hey Matt.

You all good?

Since this thread is going no-where, I started a thread where you can share your 1960's (or was it 1970s ?) education in a thread for us all to learn from.

Please continue here: Real facts about the evolution of the human brain, paleontologically
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:13 pm

zeuzzz wrote:Hey Matt. You all good?
I'm fine Zeuzzz. Are you still "self administering" before posting? :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:18 pm

Hey Matt, and Yes, I am self administering.

By the very nature of your posts, I sadly have so 'self administer' your posts before I reply most of the time now.

It's becoming very tiring though.

Please reply so we can get to the bottom of this issue please http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 39#p488039
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by digress » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:47 pm

Im so confused. No offense zoozzz but I gave you a shot. I'm going to pass it off to your rival.

Matthew Ellard, Is DMT produced and released in our brains? The same compound found only in magic mushrooms?
(Y/N?)(simplicity)

zeuzzz wrote:PS: Digress, you avatars have been great before, even enticing like I stated previously, but your current one ... meh. What series/film is it from? I'm waaay behind on my anime nowadays.

I feel a change is due :)
o_o

well... someday it will change but this one is more recent and i <3
idk which anime or what character... i also would like to know
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:35 am

digress wrote:Im so confused. No offense zoozzz but I gave you a shot. I'm going to pass it off to your rival.

Matthew Ellard, Is DMT produced and released in our brains? The same compound found only in magic mushrooms?
(Y/N?)(simplicity)

zeuzzz wrote:PS: Digress, you avatars have been great before, even enticing like I stated previously, but your current one ... meh. What series/film is it from? I'm waaay behind on my anime nowadays.

I feel a change is due :)
o_o

well... someday it will change but this one is more recent and i <3
idk which anime or what character... i also would like to know
Yer, I kinda prematurely dragged you in, you had no cards in this game, even when I started the new thread. I should have not've got you involved if you didn't want to be. Sorry.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by digress » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:44 am

Whoa now. My questions stand. I know you went into a great effort to reference an educated response, but sometimes the most direct answer is the best. Especially after stating I cant follow the science very well.

I'm still interested, but I'm not in this thread to interpret my own answer as to whether or not my brain is releasing home made DMT. I'm sorry im being so difficult(?)
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:19 am

digress wrote:Whoa now. My questions stand. I know you went into a great effort to reference an educated response, but sometimes the most direct answer is the best. Especially after stating I cant follow the science very well.

I'm still interested, but I'm not in this thread to interpret my own answer as to whether or not my brain is releasing home made DMT. I'm sorry im being so difficult(?)
You are not being difficult at all. I just realized I started this thread under the false premise that you made a definitive point, whereas your original comment seems (in retrospect) more like a passing thought than a point of contention.

I presumed my previous post answered your question? In relevance to the 'certain vs likely' dichotomy of terminology you brought up before.
zeuzzz wrote:
digress wrote: "it's likely, but certain" speak.
It's certain (see above) that it's produced in our brains as an active metabolite.

It's highly likely that our ancestors used such agents in the past to change their consciousness.

You following me now?

I can elaborate further.

Just ask.
Or were you referring to a different question and I addressed the wrong one above?
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by digress » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:08 pm

zeuzzz wrote:
digress wrote:Whoa now. My questions stand. I know you went into a great effort to reference an educated response, but sometimes the most direct answer is the best. Especially after stating I cant follow the science very well.

I'm still interested, but I'm not in this thread to interpret my own answer as to whether or not my brain is releasing home made DMT. I'm sorry im being so difficult(?)
You are not being difficult at all. I just realized I started this thread under the false premise that you made a definitive point, whereas your original comment seems (in retrospect) more like a passing thought than a point of contention.

I presumed my previous post answered your question? In relevance to the 'certain vs likely' dichotomy of terminology you brought up before.
zeuzzz wrote:
digress wrote: "it's likely, but certain" speak.
It's certain (see above) that it's produced in our brains as an active metabolite.

It's highly likely that our ancestors used such agents in the past to change their consciousness.

You following me now?

I can elaborate further.

Just ask.
Or were you referring to a different question and I addressed the wrong one above?
I hadn't followed your Stoned Ape thread, but the image you began this thread with was not a point I had been making. It merely told a story I felt.

If you want to refer back to my last point in that thread then I don't happen to see a link between your stating that DMT is commonly found throughout nature and my insight that the universal oyster you presumed to exist is from a sample of one.

That may explain my confusion when you began this thread and were talking about DMT. The combination that I hadn't followed the previous thread + my random image = my confusion when you engaged. You had still heightened my interest with DMT and how we produce & release it, but as this thread progressed that interest became diluted. Because it would be thought-provoking - the idea that our brain produces and releases a very potent psychedelic and that this psychedelic were found only in mushrooms. However, that wasn't the case.

I'm just left scratching my head at the point now. Discovery and academia are different things and via our discussion it seems you've been motivated by one and I, the other.



ps. on the notion that zoozzz is a cult leader or w/e i'd like to bring clarity to this inquiry because the choice to worship an idea or practice say nothing about the idea or practice in question. zoozzz may be gay for mckenna but that's his own struggle.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:05 am

If was going to be gay, the last person I would choose is Mckenna. That freaking beard. Although his wife seemed to love him all their 30 years of marriage.

It's amazing how a sub-set of a skeptic forum manages (sorry, Matt only tbh) to warp what is a ultimately a large social following, interest, and people who agree with a set core of peaceful and harm reducing values (that politicians are clueless about; yet science, data and evidence shows otherwise) into the somewhat confused allegation that I'm running a 'cult'

To turns things a bit upside down here: Maybe Matts cult is an anti psycho-pharmacology one? You have read what the science says now Matt about these agents and what they do?

If you want to talk about any consciousness altering agents or have a question I can likely shed some subjective insights. I've had an obsession about consciousness and the brain/mind system since I was twelve. Unfortunately for Matt; I know the literature. I know what is pseudoscience and what is real science. I tread a fine line sometimes; but that's merely the unfortunate line that politicians have laid down vs what science now says.
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scrmbldggs
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:36 am

zeuzzz wrote:...Although his wife seemed to love him all their 30 years of marriage...
Which one? The only one listed on his wiki page is Kathleen Harrison:
Spouse Kathleen Harrison (1975—1992; divorced)
Also on his page:
Novelty theory and Timewave Zero

...

Novelty theory is considered to be pseudoscience.[10][11] Among the criticisms are the use of numerology to derive dates of important events in world history,[11] the arbitrary rather than calculated end date of the time wave[27] and the apparent adjustment of the eschaton from November 2012 to December 2012 in order to coincide with the Mayan calendar. Other purported dates do not fit the actual time frames: the date claimed for the emergence of Homo sapiens is inaccurate by 70,000 years, and the existence of the ancient Sumer and Egyptian civilisations contradict the date he gave for the beginning of "historical time". Some projected dates have been criticised for having seemingly arbitrary labels, such as the "height of the age of mammals"[11] and McKenna's analysis of historical events has been criticised for having a eurocentric and cultural bias.[6][27]

The Watkins Objection


in 1994, the British mathematician Mathew Watkins of Exeter University (then a Cambridge PhD student) conduct a mathematical analysis of the Time Wave. Watkins claimed there were various mathematical flaws in the construction of the wave. He stated that when the mathematics was accurately performed a more trivial and uninteresting waveform was created, which was not fractal but a complex piecewise linear progression.[27]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_M ... ewave_Zero

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:45 am

haha yea one his worst ever 'predictions'. Based on theory of a 'time wave' in which the two forces in play are habit vs novelty.

Once he learned that the Mayans also has 2012 as a date of 'the end of the world' he did sometimes use that as a date, but took a far different more technologically grounded approach to it, and said it would be more like when time becomes delineated (thanks world wide web of information spread) and thus said a few things about it as such; that all linear subjects (due to the confluence of technologies and worldwide connectivity via the world wide web) would be impossible to predict henceforth.

There became too many congruent variables after the roughly 2012 mark to make any more accurate further predictions on anthropological considerations in a globally connected and more technologically informed world this regard.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:54 am

zeuzzz wrote:haha yea one his worst ever 'predictions'. Based on theory of a 'time wave' in which the two forces in play are habit vs novelty.

Once he learned that the Mayans also has 2012 as a date of 'the end of the world' he did sometimes use that as a date, but took a far different more technologically grounded approach to it, and said it would be more like when time becomes delineated (thanks world wide web of information spread) and thus said a few things about it as such; that all linear subjects (due to the confluence of technologies and worldwide connectivity via the world wide web) would be impossible to predict henceforth.

There became too many congruent variables after the roughly 2012 mark to make any more accurate further predictions on anthropological considerations in a globally connected and more technologically informed world this regard.
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