The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

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The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:53 pm

A thread that is an off-shoot to a thread that become unproductive long ago. The main aim is to inform people of the role of the primary endogenous brain functions of this gland, and various endogenous neuro-transmitters there-in.
zeuzzz wrote:
digress wrote:Image
A re-rendering. Ask whatever questions you want. Here or elsewhere.

Image

[deleted]
Below Is a quote I posted a few years ago on another forum. It is relevant here now.

DMT is basically a tryptamine molecule with two methyl groups bound to its ethylamine. It can be biosynthesized from L-tryptophan via decarboxylation by aromatic amino acid decarboxylase (AADC), and then undergoes two enzymatic methyl-transfers by indolethylamine-N-methyltransferase (INMT); methyls are provided by the cofactor, S-Adenosyl methionine (SAM). So, the transformation of 5-HTP to DMT is the plausible cascade in humans – as all of the enzymes and cofactors are present in human physiology in a variety of tissues, and the precursor is viable. AADC is long-known to be present in the brain, so I don’t feel obligated to prove its presence there; see the second attached study for details of INMT expressed in humans [2]; humans indeed have the gene for INMT, mapped to the 7th chromosome, revealed via FISH & in situ hybridization.

There does seem to be an evidence gap in terms of the methyltransferases metabolization, whether from 5' hydroxylation would likely have to be reduced to produce DMT from 5-HTP. However it's far from an an unreasonable assertion. Tryptophan being converted in vivo to DMT is 99+% plausible.

Similarly simply methylate melatonin twice and you have dimethyl-trytamine (DMT). Everyone creates melatonin every night. It is the neurochemical that makes you fall asleep and dream. People take supplements for jet lag; it works so well.

What was your point again, Digress?
Last edited by zeuzzz on Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:03 pm

Fruitcake sounds like Deeppack Chopra.

Silly word salad.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:04 pm

Hey Matt.
Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you can use your sock puppet to demean it.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:09 pm

How is taking melatonin for jet lag/sleep issues relevant to the third eye looking at the matrix?

You need more than a verb following a noun to make any sense at all.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:17 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:How is taking melatonin for jet lag/sleep issues relevant to the third eye looking at the matrix?

You need more than a verb following a noun to make any sense at all.
Melatonin is not relevant in the way you state it is. It simply re-sets the metabolic clock, so to speak. and works well in this regard.

I just had to go back and delete Mckennas quote from the OP. As at this level of comprehension of what I am talking about, it will just cause confusion.

"The pineal gland contains the necessary building blocks to make DMT. For example, it possesses the highest levels of serotonin anywhere in the body, and serotonin is a crucial precursor for pineal melatonin. The pineal also has the ability to convert serotonin to tryptamine, a critical step in DMT formation. The unique enzymes that convert serotonin, melatonin, or tryptamine into psychedelic compounds also are present in extraordinarily high concentrations in the pineal. These enzymes, the methyltransferases, attach a methyl group—that is, one carbon and three hydrogens—onto other molecules, thus methylating them. Simply methylate tryptamine twice, and we have di-methyl-tryptamine, or DMT. Because it possesses the high levels of the necessary enzymes and precursors, the pineal gland is the most reasonable place for DMT formation to occur. Surprisingly, no one has looked for DMT in the pineal."

Is the above generally understood?
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:26 pm

zeuzzz wrote:Is the above generally understood?
I think you deleted the wrong paragraph. The copy and paste from any standard dictionary/medical textbook makes sense. The woo woo about the peneal gland being a wifi to the universe remains silly word salad as if straight from Deepback Chopraw.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:30 pm

Hey bobo :)

Have you tried DMT?

And if not (which I will respect, in this skeptical context) have you read the experience reports of people who have tried it?

What do you make of them?

See here: https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:35 pm

bobo, are you related to Matt Ellard who posts here?

And if so, how so?

Maybe my synchronistic compass is off; but it rarely is.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:39 pm

The only psychedelic I have tried is marijuana twice in college, and moldy bread about once a week. I took melatonin for a few weeks but could not recognize any effect....thats how screwed up my circadian rhythm is....part of genetic variation, I'm sure I'm destined for something great but I can't get the wi fi.

Drugs. I did have a psychedelic experience only once: beer and love. Love left :( and all I have now is beer. :)

Read a few reports about LSD and mushrooms experiences. That is all they are: experiences INSIDE the brain. Can be terrifying or wonderful but its all internal: no connection to the universe.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:48 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:thats how screwed up my circadian rhythm is....part of genetic variation, I'm sure I'm destined for something great but I can't get the wi fi.
My circadian rhythm is totally screwed too. dw about it. Use it to you advantage. Genetics has cursed me with this; like you too.
Drugs. I did have a psychedelic experience only once: beer and love. Love left :( and all I have now is beer. :)
Ah mate. You got the smileys the wrong way round. Let me re-iterate your sentiment.

Love left :) and all I have now is beer. :(
Read a few reports about LSD and mushrooms experiences. That is all they are: experiences INSIDE the brain. Can be terrifying or wonderful but its all internal: no connection to the universe.
Don't disagree with this.

Stop drinking and find love again is all I can say really.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:56 pm

Stop drinking and find love again is all I can say really. /// As always when given a choice: I say both. Why reverse the smilies if your recommend love? That makes no sense....unless your name is Bruce?........hmmmm........ it does rhyme. Scary the connections one can make....even when sober. Good thing a quick shallow analysis touching base with reality shows such meanderings to be meaningless.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:53 pm

zeuzzz wrote:"The pineal gland contains the necessary building blocks to make DMT. For example, it possesses the highest levels of serotonin anywhere in the body, and serotonin is a crucial precursor for pineal melatonin. The pineal also has the ability to convert serotonin to tryptamine, a critical step in DMT formation. The unique enzymes that convert serotonin, melatonin, or tryptamine into psychedelic compounds also are present in extraordinarily high concentrations in the pineal. These enzymes, the methyltransferases, attach a methyl group—that is, one carbon and three hydrogens—onto other molecules, thus methylating them. Simply methylate tryptamine twice, and we have di-methyl-tryptamine, or DMT. Because it possesses the high levels of the necessary enzymes and precursors, the pineal gland is the most reasonable place for DMT formation to occur. Surprisingly, no one has looked for DMT in the pineal."
What I bolded... Necessary building blocks and an ability a factory not make. Has the last sentence (Surprisingly, no one has looked for DMT in the pineal.) been followed up upon by now? And if so, was any found? Also, what is your educational background in these matters? Are you, or whomever you quoted, a biochemist or similar?
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:06 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Stop drinking and find love again is all I can say really. /// As always when given a choice: I say both. Why reverse the smilies if your recommend love? That makes no sense....unless your name is Bruce?........hmmmm........ it does rhyme. Scary the connections one can make....even when sober. Good thing a quick shallow analysis touching base with reality shows such meanderings to be meaningless.
lol Matt stfu.

Else you might blabber confidential info with repercussions.

Brucey trucey, eh? heh. I'm always one step ahead. Don't try to act naively belligerent now. Just drop it.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by digress » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:12 pm

zeuzzz wrote:A thread that is an off-shoot to a thread that become unproductive long ago. The main aim is to inform people of the role of the primary endogenous brain functions of this gland, and various endogenous neuro-transmitters there-in.
zeuzzz wrote:
digress wrote:Image
Below Is a quote I posted a few years ago on another forum. It is relevant here now.

DMT is basically a tryptamine molecule with two methyl groups bound to its ethylamine. It can be biosynthesized from L-tryptophan via decarboxylation by aromatic amino acid decarboxylase (AADC), and then undergoes two enzymatic methyl-transfers by indolethylamine-N-methyltransferase (INMT); methyls are provided by the cofactor, S-Adenosyl methionine (SAM). So, the transformation of 5-HTP to DMT is the plausible cascade in humans – as all of the enzymes and cofactors are present in human physiology in a variety of tissues, and the precursor is viable. AADC is long-known to be present in the brain, so I don’t feel obligated to prove its presence there; see the second attached study for details of INMT expressed in humans [2]; humans indeed have the gene for INMT, mapped to the 7th chromosome, revealed via FISH & in situ hybridization.

There does seem to be an evidence gap in terms of the methyltransferases metabolization, whether from 5' hydroxylation would likely have to be reduced to produce DMT from 5-HTP. However it's far from an an unreasonable assertion. Tryptophan being converted in vivo to DMT is 99+% plausible.

Similarly simply methylate melatonin twice and you have dimethyl-trytamine (DMT). Everyone creates melatonin every night. It is the neurochemical that makes you fall asleep and dream. People take supplements for jet lag; it works so well.

What was your point again, Digress?
I, uh... hmm. Points? Well, Ok... DMT? LOL

You are way over my head.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:19 pm

zeuzzz wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Stop drinking and find love again is all I can say really. /// As always when given a choice: I say both. Why reverse the smilies if your recommend love? That makes no sense....unless your name is Bruce?........hmmmm........ it does rhyme. Scary the connections one can make....even when sober. Good thing a quick shallow analysis touching base with reality shows such meanderings to be meaningless.
lol Matt stfu.

Else you might blabber confidential info with repercussions.

Brucey trucey, eh? heh. I'm always one step ahead. Don't try to act naively belligerent now. Just drop it.
:hmm:

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:36 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
zeuzzz wrote:"The pineal gland contains the necessary building blocks to make DMT. For example, it possesses the highest levels of serotonin anywhere in the body, and serotonin is a crucial precursor for pineal melatonin. The pineal also has the ability to convert serotonin to tryptamine, a critical step in DMT formation. The unique enzymes that convert serotonin, melatonin, or tryptamine into psychedelic compounds also are present in extraordinarily high concentrations in the pineal. These enzymes, the methyltransferases, attach a methyl group—that is, one carbon and three hydrogens—onto other molecules, thus methylating them. Simply methylate tryptamine twice, and we have di-methyl-tryptamine, or DMT. Because it possesses the high levels of the necessary enzymes and precursors, the pineal gland is the most reasonable place for DMT formation to occur. Surprisingly, no one has looked for DMT in the pineal."
What I bolded... Necessary building blocks and an ability a factory not make. Has the last sentence (Surprisingly, no one has looked for DMT in the pineal.) been followed up upon by now? And if so, was any found? Also, what is your educational background in these matters? Are you, or whomever you quoted, a biochemist or similar?
I'm a hobbyist. As for your question, the reason as to why it has not been directly proven in the human pineal is that DMT (even though endogenous) is metabolized in about 5-10 seconds in terms of standard metabolic amounts, and at most 1-5 minutes in active conscious changing amounts. So opening up someones pineal gland (at the very central part of the brain) to test the levels comes with all sorts of ethical issues that people have not to date been allowed to test.

However some progress has been made with rats (paper number [2] below). And in a few other avenues (also listed below). To quote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

Immunohistochemistry showed INMT to be present in large amounts in glandular epithelial cells of small and large intestines. In 2011, immunohistochemistry revealed the presence of INMT in primate nervous tissue including retina, spinal cord motor neurons, and the pineal gland. [1]

In 2013 researchers first reported DMT in the pineal gland microdialysate of rodents.[2]

A study published in 2014 reported the biosynthesis of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in the human melanoma cell line SK-Mel-147 including details on its metabolism by peroxidases.[3]

In a 2014 paper a group first demonstrated the immunomodulatory potential of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT through the Sigma-1 receptor of human immune cells. This immunomodulatory activity may contribute to significant anti-inflammatory effects and tissue regeneration.[4]

[1] Cozzi N.V., Mavlyutov T.A., Thompson M.A., Ruoho A.E. (2011). "Indolethylamine N-methyltransferase expression in primate nervous tissue" (PDF). Society for Neuroscience Abstracts 37: 840.19.

[2] Barker SA, Borjigin J, Lomnicka I, Strassman R (Jul 2013). "LC/MS/MS analysis of the endogenous dimethyltryptamine hallucinogens, their precursors, and major metabolites in rat pineal gland microdialysate". Biomed Chromatogr. 27 (12): 1690–1700. doi:10.1002/bmc.2981. PMID 23881860.

[3] Gomes MM, Coimbra JB, Clara RO, Dörr FA, Moreno AC, Chagas JR, Tufik S, Pinto E Jr, Catalani LH, Campa A. (2014). "Biosynthesis of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in a melanoma cell line and its metabolization by peroxidases". Biochemica Pharmacology. 88 (3): 393–401. doi:10.1016/j.bcp.2014.01.035. PMID 24508833.

[4] Szabo A, Kovacs A, Frecska E, Rajnavolgyi E. (29 Aug 2014). "Psychedelic N,N-Dimethyltryptamine and 5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Modulate Innate and Adaptive Inflammatory Responses through the Sigma-1 Receptor of Human Monocyte-Derived Dendritic Cells". PLoS ONE 9 (8): e106533. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0106533. PMID 25171370.

[5] Kärkkäinen J., Forsström T., Tornaeus J., Wähälä K., Kiuru P., Honkanen A., Stenman U.-H., Turpeinen U., Hesso A. (April 2005). "Potentially hallucinogenic 5-hydroxytryptamine receptor ligands bufotenine and dimethyltryptamine in blood and tissues". Scandinavian Journal of Clinical and Laboratory Investigation 65 (3): 189–199. doi:10.1080/00365510510013604. PMID 16095048.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:50 pm

Thanks. Building blocks, receptors, etc.... So what does it prove? That our ancestors ate seaweeds and each other?
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:57 pm

zeuzzz wrote:Hey Matt. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean you can use your sock puppet to demean it.
This is another of your odder delusions. Bobbo is an American and I am Australian. Unless I never sleep, I cannot post 24 hours 7 days a week in two opposing time zones. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:16 pm

scrmbldggs wrote: (Surprisingly, no one has looked for DMT in the pineal.) been followed up upon by now? And if so, was any found? Also, what is your educational background in these matters? Are you, or whomever you quoted, a biochemist or similar?
H.P. Lovecraft / The Pineal Gland
Zeuzzz is only 27 years old and doesn't read books. As I previously pointed out McKenna directly plagiarised the Stoned Ape anecdotes from Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey and from Paddy Chayefsky's book ( and film) "Altered States".


Zeuzzz is now going further back in time to H.P.Lovecroft's "From Beyond" . H P Lovecraft wrote horror stories in the 30's to compete with book versions of Dracula and Frankenstein. In the 1930's the Pineal gland was a the centre of bogus science and snake doctor claims. Lovecraft wrote books on ".....stimulating a person’s pineal gland, thereby allowing them to perceive planes of existence outside the scope of accepted reality." . In essence, Zeuzzz has simply picked up on another old popular science fiction story and thinks it is real.

Here are film stills of the Pineal gland from movie adaptations of H P Lovecraft's books.
from-beyond-unrated-20071008032119396-000.jpg
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:21 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Thanks. Building blocks, receptors, etc.... So what does it prove? That our ancestors ate seaweeds and each other?
It shows an integrated biological endocrine system that has evolved through standard evolution and thus Zeuzzz ends his cult's Stoned Ape claims......yet again. :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:25 am

zeuzzz wrote:I had to go back and delete Mckennas quote from the OP. As at this level of comprehension of what I am talking about, it will just cause confusion.
Your cult has a lot to say about Pineal Glands doesn't it?

Terence McKenna / Imaginatarix "The Pineal Gland : Awakening your natural Stargate"
http://4mckenna.tumblr.com/post/3527901 ... ur-natural
"The pineal gland secretes melatonin which helps regulate sleep/awake periods and pertains to vision. Recent studies by Dr. Rick Strassman show that another chemical is released during REM sleep called Dimethyltryptamine or DMT for short. DMT is a natural hallucinogenic that is released every night while you sleep. Studies show that when given a dose of the chemical DMT to volunteers they experience dimensional shifts in consciousness, profound time dilation and loss of time, journeys to paranormal realms, and encounters with spiritual beings."

Decalcifying The Pineal Gland With Dr. Dennis McKenna
http://realitysandwich.com/257215/decal ... s-mckenna/
"In this edition Gabriel and Dennis discuss the truth behind whether or not Terence McKenna was a CIA/FBI operative and myths about the calcification of the pineal gland...."

Terrence McKenna on the Pineal Gland
http://www.matrixmasters.net/podcasts/T ... tyPt01.pdf
" The fact that we’ve talked here, or mentioned, that we have DMT in our pineal glands, in our brains –what we haven’t said is that we also have compounds in that same organ very much like what’s in ayahuasca. Occurring in the human pineal gland is a compound called adenaroglumerotropine [??], but when you give it its physical chemical nomenclature, it turns out it’s 6-methoxy tetrahydroharmine; it’s a very near relative of harmine and harmaline. So I’m, you know, it doesn’t strain me to believe that perhaps in looking at this phenomenon we have actually put our finger on the place, the cutting edge, of the evolution of consciousness, right now, at the biochemical level"

Zeuzzz? Please set out the exact biological mechanism that justifies Terence McKenna making this claim? Include all hormones and genetic evolution details. :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:36 am

zeuzzz wrote: I'm a hobbyist.
You are also a liar.

Rick Strassman
"I did my best in the DMT book to differentiate between what is known, and what I was conjecturing about (based upon what is known), regarding certain aspects of DMT dynamics. However, it's amazing how ineffective my efforts seem to have been. So many people write me, or write elsewhere, about DMT, and the pineal, assuming that the things I conjecture about are true."

"We don't know whether DMT is made in the pineal. I muster a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting a reason to look long and hard at the pineal, but we do not yet know. There are data suggesting urinary DMT rises in psychotic patients when their psychosis is worse. However, we don't know whether DMT rises during dreams, meditation, near-death, death, birth or any other endogenous altered state"

Good one Zeuzzz! :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:09 am

I've mentioned it before and still think that it would seem prudent to keep the woos, fruitloops and exaggerations/dishonesty out of it if you're serious about possible therapeutical use and benefits of the agents under discussion, zeuzzz.

If there's really anything to it, all such could easily reinforce the recreational drug aspects and do a disservice to serious research and those who could possibly benefit from it.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:00 pm

Nice, Matt is doing all my work and referencing for me :D

Keep it up please.

when you are done, I will post my own.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:25 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
zeuzzz wrote: I'm a hobbyist.
You are also a liar.

Rick Strassman
"I did my best in the DMT book to differentiate between what is known, and what I was conjecturing about (based upon what is known), regarding certain aspects of DMT dynamics. However, it's amazing how ineffective my efforts seem to have been. So many people write me, or write elsewhere, about DMT, and the pineal, assuming that the things I conjecture about are true."

"We don't know whether DMT is made in the pineal. I muster a lot of circumstantial evidence supporting a reason to look long and hard at the pineal, but we do not yet know. There are data suggesting urinary DMT rises in psychotic patients when their psychosis is worse. However, we don't know whether DMT rises during dreams, meditation, near-death, death, birth or any other endogenous altered state"

Good one Zeuzzz! :D
I outlined above why it's impossible, ethically, to directly prove there is endogenous DMT in the pineal gland. Due to the sensitivity of its location in the central part of the brain. I also explained how it's instantly metabolized at base homeostatic levels in a matter of seconds, so the subject would have to alive to find it. I also explained how it has recently been found in the pineal glands of rats, whos brains share 99% the same topological structure and metabolic pathways as we do (see the LC/MS study). I also explained how you simply have to methylate metalonin [a well know pineal hormone] twice to get DMT. I also explained (though maybe did not reference) how it's an endogenous ligand of the Sigma 1 receptor.

Psychedelic N,N-dimethyltryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine modulate innate and adaptive inflammatory responses through the sigma-1 receptor of human monocyte-derived dendritic cells.
PLoS One. 2014 Aug 29;9(8):e106533. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0106533. eCollection 2014.
The orphan receptor sigma-1 (sigmar-1) is a transmembrane chaperone protein expressed in both the central nervous system and in immune cells. It has been shown to regulate neuronal differentiation and cell survival, and mediates anti-inflammatory responses and immunosuppression in murine in vivo models. Since the details of these findings have not been elucidated so far, we studied the effects of the endogenous sigmar-1 ligands N,N-dimethyltryptamine (NN-DMT), its derivative 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT) and the synthetic high affinity sigmar-1 agonist PRE-084 hydrochloride on human primary monocyte-derived dendritic cell (moDCs) activation provoked by LPS, polyI:C or pathogen-derived stimuli to induce inflammatory responses. Co-treatment of moDC with these activators and sigma-1 receptor ligands inhibited the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines IL-1β, IL-6, TNFα and the chemokine IL-8, while increased the secretion of the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10. The T-cell activating capacity of moDCs was also inhibited, and dimethyltryptamines used in combination with E. coli or influenza virus as stimulators decreased the differentiation of moDC-induced Th1 and Th17 inflammatory effector T-cells in a sigmar-1 specific manner as confirmed by gene silencing. Here we demonstrate for the first time the immunomodulatory potential of NN-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT on human moDC functions via sigmar-1 that could be harnessed for the pharmacological treatment of autoimmune diseases and chronic inflammatory conditions of the CNS or peripheral tissues. Our findings also point out a new biological role for dimethyltryptamines, which may act as systemic endogenous regulators of inflammation and immune homeostasis through the sigma-1 receptor.
Your position becomes more paradoxical as times goes on. On one hand you assert that hormones are well known and demand me list them all to prove another theory, in a point fo point reductive way. Then, when I prove that the most potent psychedelic is more than likely an endogenous part of basic pineal metabolism you come out and argue (well, try to argue) with all the literature that suggests so with weird bolding. You've really painted yourself into a corner now, and I'm not sure people are sure what you point is anymore (I certainly don't).

This is old work, but mildly relevant still. Although I have some qualms with Callaways methodology.

"A biochemical mechanism for this was proposed by the medical researcher J. C. Callaway, who suggested in 1988 that DMT might be connected with visual dream phenomena: brain DMT levels would be periodically elevated to induce visual dreaming and possibly other natural states of mind.[112] A role of endogenous hallucinogens including DMT in higher level sensory processing and awareness was proposed by J. V. Wallach based on a hypothetical role of DMT as a neurotransmitter.[110]"

[110] Callaway J (1988). "A proposed mechanism for the visions of dream sleep". Med Hypotheses 26 (2): 119–24.
The visions of dream sleep are suggested to occur through a dream mechanism which implicates tryptamine derivatives as endogenous paychedelics. The hallucinations that occur in some schizophrenic syndromes are also proposed to occur through a similar, though desynchronized, mechanism. These compounds occur in the human pineal gland and are regarded as neurotransmitters or neuroregulators. A protocol for experimental verification is suggested.
[/quote]

Schaepe, Herbert (2001). "International control of the preparation "ayahuasca"" (JPG). Erowid. Retrieved November 29, 2010.

Anyway, please keep posting links. I'll start adding all the scientists who study the brain and neuroscience to your apparent list of members in my 'cult' (lol) and you might be surprised how ridiculous your position then becomes.

Is Dr David Nichols also in my 'cult'?

You do realize you are basically labeling many extremely respected scientists, neuroscientists and pharmacologists as cult members?

The definition of anti-science woo-woo.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:35 pm

For those have no idea what I am talking about, try wiki. And ask any questions subsequently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

Psilocin is 4-ho-DMT, and psilocybin is the basically [in laymans terms] the 4-hydroxy indole of it. The chemical(s) found in hallucinogenic mushrooms.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:41 pm

The pineal gland has a rich meta-physical history, that we have not even gone into yet. Often promoted by Decartes, but also the Greeks, and many others. I guess I'll save that for later, after I work out what Matts frantic posts are about exactly.

The trouble is Matt that society gathers wisdom some 30-20 years later than science gathers knowledge. You seem to be stuck in the societal stage.

It's really not that hard to keep abreast of the science of these things. Just put your pop-sci magazines down and read the actual scientific literature and journals instead.

[I think the above is a variant of an Isaac Asimov quote; yet it rings especially true here]
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:44 am

zeuzzz wrote: The trouble is......
Zeuzzz doesn't know anything about the pineal gland and was using cult dogma, only to discover that the Pineal Gland doesn't contain any DMT. Poor show Zeuzzz, poor show. :mrgreen:

Hey Zeuzzz, did you ever work out what the standard theory of evolution is?

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:49 am

zeuzzz wrote: J. C. Callaway, who suggested in 1988 that DMT might be connected with visual dream phenomena: brain DMT levels would be periodically elevated to induce visual dreaming and possibly other natural states of mind. .
Rick Strassman (2014)
"So many people write me, or write elsewhere, about DMT, and the pineal, assuming that the things I conjecture about are true." ( There is no evidence of DMT in the Pineal Gland.)

"However, we don't know whether DMT rises during dreams, meditation, near-death, death, birth or any other endogenous altered state" (Zeuzzz reaches another dead end.)

Never trust a cult member,like Zeuzzz, to tell the truth........ :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by digress » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:55 am

zeuzzz wrote:Then, when I prove that the most potent psychedelic is more than likely an endogenous part of basic pineal metabolism...

"A biochemical mechanism for this was proposed by the medical researcher J. C. Callaway, who suggested in 1988 that DMT might be connected with visual dream phenomena: brain DMT levels would be periodically elevated to induce visual dreaming and possibly other natural states of mind.[112] A role of endogenous hallucinogens including DMT in higher level sensory processing and awareness was proposed by J. V. Wallach based on a hypothetical role of DMT as a neurotransmitter.[110]"
I really do apologize if you are repeating yourself zoozzz or if I go off-topic here because my attention isn't all there (i cant follow all this), but are you saying DMT "the most potent psychedelic" is naturally produced and released inside our brains? And is only found elsewhere in nature via magic mushrooms?
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:02 am

digress wrote: And is only found elsewhere in nature via magic mushrooms?
I like you. You can see through Zeuzzz's delusional, cult belief system's framework. :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:26 am

digress wrote: I really do apologize if you are repeating yourself zoozzz or if I go off-topic here because my attention isn't all there (i cant follow all this), but are you saying DMT "the most potent psychedelic" is naturally produced and released inside our brains? And is only found elsewhere in nature via magic mushrooms?
DMT is an endogenous neurochemical. It is found in the blood of all mammals. It is likely produced in the pineal gland as a by product of methyltransferases converting it from melatonin.

DMT is certainly the most potent psychedelic. However at base line metabolic levels it's probably not enough to make people feel like they are 'tripping' so to speak, even if it is one of a myriad of neurochemicals that gives way to our everyday experience. An exogenous over-flow of the amounts of it in the brain will likely give the mystical and 'transcendent' states people often report on it.

As for you second point, "And is only found elsewhere in nature via magic mushrooms?" not really. It's just a major thorn in Matts side that the chemical he's been arguing against for so long is found in various chemical congeners, even if in different forms. I wrote a very long post a while back about DMT and it's relationship to mushrooms.

To summarize for you, as you seem reasonable, DMT is pretty much ubiquitous throughout nature. Whether in grass, whether in acacia bushes, whether in minosa hostilis plants; no matter where you are in the world you go you basically can't get away from the stuff. 1000+ species contain it; and counting. Every single one of those species just needs some simple cooking techniques to extract it and hey ho; you have pure natural DMT. No one has ever died from it. It is not dangerous.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:29 am

Matt you are becoming far more tiring than productive at this point. You are actually starting to sound like Norma. If your pride wasn't still blinding you you might actually to engage in a productive discussion. I wait in anticipation for that day.

[luvs ya Norma!]
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Zeuzzz's Cult fantasy about The Pineal Gland / Debunked

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:36 am

zeuzzz wrote: As for you second point, "And is only found elsewhere in nature via magic mushrooms?" not really. It's just a major thorn in Matts side that the chemical he's been arguing against for so long is found in various chemical cogeneres, even if in different forms. I wrote a very long post a while back about DMT and it's relationship to mushrooms.
No Zeuzzz. You are the cult member who claimed Magic Mushrooms were the key. You ran away from that claim, remember? :D

I'm the bloke who destroyed both magic mushrooms and all your following claims concerning epigenetics. You also ran away from those silly claims too. :D

So far, you have been making a marathon effort .......

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:39 am

zeuzzz wrote:Matt ......You are actually starting to sound like Norma.
An 80 year old American woman? Is that a voice you hear in your head often? :D

Last week you accused me of being a sock-puppet of Bobbo. Are you hearing Bobbo's voice in your head as well? :D

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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by digress » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:43 am

Wow ok. Are you saying DMT is Melatonin? And if not then why the uncertainty as to whether or not any gland would produce it?

Also, You say DMT is potent, but then say not at a base line metabolic level. This makes me think our body does naturally produce it, but you said earlier it were a "likely". So Im confused. I can't make out your opinion or fact from this back and forth, "it's likely, but certain" speak.
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:53 am

zeuzzz wrote:As for you second point, "And is only found elsewhere in nature via magic mushrooms?" not really. It's just a major thorn in Matts side that the chemical he's been arguing against for so long is found in various chemical congeners, even if in different forms. I wrote a very long post a while back about DMT and it's relationship to mushrooms.

To summarize...DMT is pretty much ubiquitous throughout nature. Whether in grass, whether in acacia bushes, whether in minosa hostilis plants; no matter where you are in the world you go you basically can't get away from the stuff. 1000+ species contain it; and counting.
There goes the fairy tale about its extra special, sudden and profound effect once upon a time. :-P
Every single one of those species just needs some simple cooking techniques to extract it and hey ho; you have pure natural DMT. No one has ever died from it. It is not dangerous.
Maybe not. And there's not even any special cooking equipment and skill required for those who'd eat the dopey ones. :-P
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:06 am

digress wrote:Wow ok. Are you saying DMT is Melatonin? And if not then why the uncertainty as to whether or not any gland would produce it?

Also, You say DMT is potent, but then say not at a base line metabolic level. This makes me think our body does naturally produce it, but you said earlier it were a "likely". So Im confused. I can't make out your opinion or fact from this back and forth, "it's likely, but certain" speak.
I'll quote my post fron another forum in reply to this.

This shouldn't be too much of an issue considering there dozens of papers on it. Half of these are not in the DF database yet, if I have time I will try get round to upload them, though I've uploaded the ones I felt most recent and important first. Hope this helps

Strassman has now distanced himself from any sort of non scientific spiritual idea DMT may play and also revised his pineal gland hypothesis, both of which he did seriously consider in his book. He had to distance himself from such ideas to remain respected by the mainstream scientific community who found his evidence more circumstantial than scientific.

The first two papers are the most up to date and comprehensive, I believe.

A critical review of reports of endogenous psychedelic N, N-dimethyltryptamines in humans: 1955-2010.
Barker SA, McIlhenny EH, Strassman R.
Abstract

Three indole alkaloids that possess differing degrees of psychotropic/psychedelic activity have been reported as endogenous substances in humans; N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), 5-hydroxy-DMT (bufotenine, HDMT), and 5-methoxy-DMT (MDMT). We have undertaken a critical review of 69 published studies reporting the detection or detection and quantitation of these compounds in human body fluids. In reviewing this literature, we address the methods applied and the criteria used in the determination of the presence of DMT, MDMT, and HDMT. The review provides a historical perspective of the research conducted from 1955 to 2010, summarizing the findings for the individual compounds in blood, urine, and/or cerebrospinal fluid. A critique of the data is offered that addresses the strengths and weaknesses of the methods and approaches to date. The review also discusses the shortcomings of the existing data in light of more recent findings and how these may be overcome. Suggestions for the future directions of endogenous psychedelics research are offered.

When the Endogenous Hallucinogenic Trace Amine N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Meets the Sigma-1 Receptor
Sci Signal. 2009 March 10; 2(61): pe12.
Abstract
N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) is a hallucinogen found endogenously in human brain that is commonly recognized to target the 5-hydroxytryptamine 2A receptor or the trace amine–associated receptor to exert its psychedelic effect. DMT has been recently shown to bind sigma-1 receptors, which are ligand-regulated molecular chaperones whose function includes inhibiting various voltage-sensitive ion channels. Thus, it is possible that the psychedelic action of DMT might be mediated in part through sigma-1 receptors. Here, we present a hypothetical signaling scheme that might be triggered by the binding of DMT to sigma-1 receptors.


Endogenous psychoactive tryptamines reconsidered: an anxiolytic role for dimethyltryptamine
Michael S. Jacob, David E. Presti*
Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-3200, USA
the presence of the potent hallucinogenic psychoactive chemical N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) in the human body has puzzled scientists for decades. Endogenous DMT was investigated in the 1960s and 1970s and it was proposed that DMT was involved in psychosis and schizophrenia. This hypothesis developed from comparisons of the blood and urine of schizophrenic and control subjects. However, much of this research proved inconclusive and conventional thinking has since held that trace levels of DMT, and other endogenous psychoactive tryptamines, are insignificant metabolic byproducts. The recent discovery of a G-protein-coupled, human trace amine receptor has triggered a reappraisal of the role of compounds present in limited concentrations in biological systems. Interestingly enough, DMT and other psychoactive tryptamine hallucinogens elicit a robust response at the trace amine receptor. While it is currently accepted that serotonin 5-HT(2A) receptors play a pivotal role in the activity of hallucinogenic/psychedelic compounds, we propose that the effects induced by exogenous DMT administration, especially at low doses, are due in part to activity at the trace amine receptor. Furthermore, we suggest that endogenous DMT interacts with the TA receptor to produce a calm and relaxed mental state, which may suppress, rather than promote, symptoms of psychosis. This hypothesis may help explain the inconsistency in the early analysis of endogenous DMT in humans. Finally, we propose that amphetamine action at the TA receptor may contribute to the calming effects of amphetamine and related drugs, especially at low doses
The Hallucinogen N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) Is an Endogenous Sigma-1 Receptor Regulator
13 FEBRUARY 2009 VOL 323 SCIENCE
The sigma-1 receptor is widely distributed in the central nervous system and periphery. Originally mischaracterized as an opioid receptor, the sigma-1 receptor binds a vast number of synthetic compounds but does not bind opioid peptides; it is currently considered an orphan receptor. The sigma-1 receptor pharmacophore includes an alkylamine core, also found in the endogenous compound N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT). DMT acts as a hallucinogen, but its receptor target has been unclear. DMT bound to sigma-1 receptors and inhibited voltage-gated sodium ion (Na+) channels in both native cardiac myocytes and heterologous cells that express sigma-1 receptors. DMT induced hypermobility in wild-type mice but not in sigma-1 receptor knockout mice. These biochemical, physiological, and behavioral experiments indicate that DMT is an endogenous agonist for the sigma-1 receptor.


Human Psychopharmacology of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (1996)

Behavioural Brain Research 1996;73(1-2):121-4.
We generated dose-response data for the endogenous and ultra-short-acting hallucinogen, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), in a cohort of experienced hallucinogen users, measuring multiple biological and psychological outcome measures. Subjective
responses were quantified with a new rating scale, the HRS, which provided better resolution of dose effects than did the biological variables.
Endogenous hallucinogens as ligands of the trace amine receptors: A possible role in sensory perception

Medical Hypotheses 2008
Article in Press, Corrected Proof J.V. Wallach
Summary

While the endogenous hallucinogens, N,N-dimethyltryptamine, 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, have been acknowledged as naturally occurring components of the mammalian body for decades, their biological function remains as elusive now as it was at the time of their discovery. The recent discovery of the trace amine associated receptors and the activity of DMT and other hallucinogenic compounds at these receptor sites leads to the hypothesis that the endogenous hallucinogens act as neurotransmitters of a subclass of these trace amine receptors. Additionally, while activity at the serotonin 5-HT2A receptor has been proposed as being responsible for the hallucinogenic affects of administered hallucinogens, in their natural setting the 5-HT2A receptor may not interact with the endogenous hallucinogens at all. Additionally 5-HT2A agonist activity is unable to account for the visual altering effects of many of the administered hallucinogens; these effects may be mediated by one of the endogenous hallucinogen trace amine receptors rather than the serotonin 5-HT2A receptor. Therefore, activity at the trace amine receptors, in addition to serotonin receptors, may play a large role in the sensory altering effects of administered hallucinogens and the trace amine receptors along with their endogenous hallucinogen ligands may serve an endogenous role in mediating sensory perception in the mammalian central nervous system. Thus the theory proposed states that these compounds act as true endogenous hallucinogenic transmitters acting in regions of the central nervous system involved in sensory perception.
Human psychopharmacology of N,N-dimethyltryptamine”.
Strassman RJ
Behav Brain Res. 1996 Dec;73(1-2):121-4.
Abstract
We generated dose-response data for the endogenous and ultra-short-acting hallucinogen, N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT), in a cohort of experienced hallucinogen users, measuring multiple biological and psychological outcome measures. Subjective responses were quantified with a new rating scale, the HRS, which provided better resolution of dose effects than did the biological variables. A tolerance study then was performed, in which volunteers received four closely spaced hallucinogenic doses of DMT. Subjective responses demonstrated no tolerance, while biological measures were inconsistently reduced over the course of the sessions. Thus, DMT remains unique among classic hallucinogens in its inability to induce tolerance to its psychological effects. To assess the role of the 5-HT1A site in mediating DMT's effects, a pindolol pre-treatment study was performed. Pindolol significantly increased psychological responses to DMT, suggesting a buffering effect of 5-HT1A agonism on 5-HT2-mediated psychedelic effects. These data are opposite to those described in lower animal models of hallucinogens' mechanisms of action.


The following are slightly older papers, but help to understand endogenous DMTs history.

The Psychedelic Model of Schizophrenia: The Case of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine
American Journal of PsychiatryVol 133 (No. 2) Feb 1976, 203-208
by Gillin; Kaplan; Stillman; Wyatt
The authors review the research on N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) as a possible "schizotoxin". DMT produces psychedelic effects when administered to normal subjects, the means are present to synthesize it in man, it has occasionally been found in man, and tolerance to its behavioral effects is incomplete. However, DMT concentrations have not been proven to differ significantly in schizophrenics and normal controls. Also, in vivo synthesis of DMT has not been convincingly demonstrated, and the psychological changes it produces do not closely mimic the symptoms of schizophrenia. The authors conclude that more data are necessary before the validity of this theory can be determined.
A proposed mechanism for the visions of dream sleep.
Callaway JC.
Med Hypotheses. 1988 Jun;26(2):119-24.
Source
School of Pharmacy, University of California, San Francisco 94143.
Abstract
The visions of dream sleep are suggested to occur through a dream mechanism which implicates tryptamine derivatives as endogenous paychedelics. The hallucinations that occur in some schizophrenic syndromes are also proposed to occur through a similar, though desynchronized, mechanism. These compounds occur in the human pineal gland and are regarded as neurotransmitters or neuroregulators. A protocol for experimental verification is suggested.
Profiles of Psychedelic Drugs - DMT,
by Alexander T. Shulgin
Vol 8 (No. 2) Apr-Jun 1976, 167-168, Journal of Psychedelic Drugs
With this issue we are introducing a new column which will present thumbnail sketches of the known psychedelic drugs. Rather than an attempt to review the existing literature on each drug (some would have hundreds of references and some perhaps two), the facts that are known concerning history, human pharmacology and human psychopharmacology will be amalgamated into a "profile." The drugs to be presented will be chosen randomly, rather than with preference given to popularity, unusual potency, or current availability. Botanical mixtures will not be considered as such, but as their known active compnents. As there are upwards of a hundred psychedelic drugs currently known, it is expected that these "profiles" will eventually form an extensive reference atlas of compactly presented drug information.
Enzymatic N-methylation of indoleamines by mammalian brain: Fact or artefact?
Journal of Neurochemistry, Volume 27, Issue 3, pages 701–705, September 1976
abstract— Indoleamine-N-methyltransferase (INMT) activity in brain and other tissues from various species was investigated. Using conventional radiochemical assay techniques it was found that apparent INMT activity in brain was linear with time and concentration of protein, indoleamine substrate and methyl donor (S-adenosylmethionine). However, examination of the reaction products by means of exhaustive thin-layer chromatographic analysis failed to reveal evidence of significant N-methylation of tryptamine or N-methyltryptamine by S-adenosylmethionine. By contrast, with other tissues, notably rabbit lung. N-methylation of indoleamine was reproducibly demonstrable. The significance of these findings with reference to the transmethylation hypothesis of schizophrenia is discussed.
The following was one of the first papers to really measure and quantify 5-meo-DMT's endogenous presence.

Biogenesis of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human pineal gland
Journal of Neurochemistry
DOI: 10.1111/j.1471-4159.1976.tb04456.x
Volume 26, Issue 1, pages 187–190, January 1976
TRYPTAMINE is a normal constituent of human urine1–5; about 30–120 µg of the amine are excreted per 24 h. In blood, tryptamine has hitherto been demonstrated only qualitatively and under pathological conditions in a carcinoid patient6. There is no information about an occurrence of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human beings. N,N-dimethyl-5-hydroxytryptamine (= Bufotenin) was demonstrated qualitatively as a constituent of normal human urine4,7; in children an excretion of 0–0.03 µg amine/100 mg creatinine has been found with, at most, semi-quantitative methods4. Apparently, N,N-dimethyl-5-hydroxytryptamine was still not demonstrated in blood. 5-Methoxytryptamine has been found in the urine of patients with rheumatic fever8, and that in an order of magnitude of 30–210 µg/24 h.
Improved selective ion monitoring mass-spectrometric assay for the determination of n,n-dimethyltryptamine in human blood utilizing capillary column gas chromatography.
by Walker RW, Mandel LR, Kleinman JE, Gillin JC, Wyatt RJ, Vandenheuvel WJA.
J Chromatogr, Biomed Appl, 1979;162:539-46


Tryptamine, N,N-dimethyltryptamine,N,N-dimethyl-5-hydroxytryptamine and 5-methoxytryptamine in human blood and urine.
by Franzen F, Gross H.
Nature 206, 1052 (05 June 1965); doi:10.1038/2061052a0


Tryptamine-N-methyltransferase activity in brain tissue: a re-examination.
Brain Research (1976)
Volume: 114, Issue: 2, Pages: 359-364
Boarder MR, Rodnight R.

Psychotomimetic N-methylated tryptamines: Formation in brain in vivo and in vitro.
by Saavedra JM, Axelrod J.
Science 1972;175:1365-6.


Increased excretion of dimethyltryptamine and certain features of psychosis. A possible association.
by Murray RM, Oon MCH, Rodnight R, Birley JLT, Smith A.
Arch Gen Psychiatry, 1979;36:644-9.


A dimethyltryptamine-forming enzyme in human blood.
by Wyatt RJ, Saavedra JM, Axelrod J.
Am J Psychiatry 1973;130:754-60.


N,N-Dimethyltryptamine: An endogenous hallucinogen.
by Barker SA, Monti JA, Christian ST.
Int Rev Neurobiol 1981;22:83-110.


Gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric isotope dilution determination of N,N-dimethyltryptamine concentrations in normals and psychiatric patients.
by Wyatt RJ, Mandel LR, Ahn HS, Walker RW, Vandenheuvel WJA.
Psychopharmacology, 1973;31:265-70.


Blood dimethyltryptamine concentrations in psychotic disorders.
by Lipinski JF, Mandel LR, Ahn HS, Vandenheuvel WJA, Walker RW.
Biol Psychiatry, 1974;9:89-91


The enzymatic N-methylation of serotonin and other amines.
by Axelrod J.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther, 1962;138:28-33.


The distribution and properties of the non-specific N-methyltransferase in brain.
by Saavedra JM, Coyle JT, Axelrod J.
J Neurochem 1973;20:743-52.


Urinary excretion of dimethyltryptamine in liver disease.
by Checkley SA, Oon MCH, Rodnight R, Murphy MP, Williams RS, Birley JLT.
Am J Psychiatry, 1979;136:439-41.


Hallucinogenic N-methylated indolealkylamines in the cerebrospinal fluid of psychiatric and control populations.
by Corbett L, Christian ST, Morin RD, Benington F, Smythies JR.
Br J Psychiatry 1978;132:139-44.


In: Wood J, ed. Neurobiology of Cerebrospinal Fluid. v. 2.
by Brown G, Smythies J, Morin R.
New York: Plenum, 1983:173-7.


Identification of dimethyltryptamine and O-methylbufotenin in human cerebrospinal fluid by combined gas chromatography/mass spectrometry.
by Smythies JR, Morin RD, Brown G.
Biol Psychiatry 1979;14:549-56.


biosignificance of n- and o-methylated indoles to psychiatric disorders.
by Koslow.
National Institute of Mental Health, 1974;23:210-9.


Factors affecting the urinary excretion of endogenously formed dimethyltryptamine in normal human subjects.
by Oon MCH, Murray RM, Rodnight R, Murphy MP, Birley JLT.
Psychopharmacology, 1977;54:171-5.
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Matthew Ellard
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More Cult crap from Zeuzzz / Debunked in seconds

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:20 am

Thanks Zuezzz for confirming that no one has found DMT in the Pineal gland.

What is the point of this thread again?
:D

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zeuzzz
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Re: The Pineal Gland and corresponding neurotransmitters

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:22 am

digress wrote: "it's likely, but certain" speak.
It's certain (see above) that it's produced in our brains as an active metabolite.

It's highly likely that our ancestors used such agents in the past to change their consciousness.

You following me now?

I can elaborate further.

Just ask. And ignore Matt, if I were you. He's starting to get frantic. And became unproductive in these kind of discussions long ago.

Unless he brings up a good point, then feel free to quote him.
Always be you, unless you can be a unicorn; then be a unicorn.