Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

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Flash
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Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Flash » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:55 am

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/orw ... n_20150621

Henry A. Giroux has written a great essay worthy of half an hour of an attentive reading because it is about us and our increasingly dystopian society.
He looks at Orwell's 1984 and Huxley's Brave New World, the works of social visionaries but ultimately fiction and compares it to our reality.

Here is the first paragraph;
In spite of their differing perceptions of the architecture of the totalitarian superstate and how it exercised power and control over its residents, George Orwell and Aldous Huxley shared a fundamental conviction. They both argued that the established democracies of the West were moving quickly toward an historical moment when they would willingly relinquish the noble promises and ideals of liberal democracy and enter that menacing space where totalitarianism perverts the modern ideals of justice, freedom, and political emancipation. Both believed that Western democracies were devolving into pathological states in which politics was recognized in the interest of death over life and justice. Both were unequivocal in the shared understanding that the future of civilization was on the verge of total domination or what Hannah Arendt called “dark times.”
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Tom Palven
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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:26 pm

From page 4:

The authoritarian nature of the corporate-state surveillance apparatus and security system with its “urge to surveil, eavesdrop on, spy on, monitor, record, and save every communication of any sort on the planet” can only be fully understood when its ubiquitous tentacles are connected to wider cultures of control and punishment, including security-patrolled corridors of public schools, the rise in super-max prisons, the hyper-militarization of local police forces, the justification of secret prisons and state-sanctioned torture abroad, and the increasing labeling of dissent as an act of terrorism in the United States. This is part of Orwell’s narrative but it does not go far enough. The new authoritarian corporate-driven state deploys more subtle tactics to depoliticize public memory and promote the militarization of everyday life...

...One particular challenge comes from the success of neoliberal tyranny..


Page 5 paragraph 8:

The darkest side of the authoritarian state feeds and legitimizes not only state violence, the violation of civil liberties, a punishing state, and a culture of cruelty, but also a culture for which violence becomes the only mediating force available to address major social problems.

I agree with most of the article and high-lighted what I think are important points.

I'll be going to a Unitarian discussion group meeting Sunday night in which the topic will be "Are we too tolerant."

I like most Unitarians despite the fact that most of them are hard-core Big Government liberals.

If I thought I was going to live a few more decades that topic would scare me, because I've been hearing noises that "WE" are too tolerant more and more lately- too tolerant with regard to gun possession, too tolerant with "hate speech," and more.

The word "We" is the problem Kemosabe. It is commonly used as an ill-defined statist term.

If one believes as Confucius opined, and as Karen Armstrong does, that the Golden Rule of reciprocity is the basis for human ethics, then there is no "We the people of the Third Reich or Fourth Reich believe." There are only individuals- You respect others as you yourself want to be respected. Don't expect a bunch of low-life lying politicians to do your job for you.
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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Flash » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:07 pm

Oh, so you've read the article Tom? It's a long one and for anybody with a short attention span it's a no go proposition.

And I agree with your view of "We" in this sense. Categorizing people as "Them" would be the same thing. Them so and so, and here comes a social and universal recommendation, need to be; reeducated, interned, rewarded, punished, whatever the rulers prescribe for "Them" all.

Orwell's and Huxley's fundamental point was that the populace of the future state consented to the oppression, perhaps because they believed the myth of "We". "We" need to submit to the status quo because otherwise "We" will not be "We", a society defined by the oppressors and that, in "Our" (manipulated) minds, would be a terrible thing. ;)
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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:37 am

It is being reported (Not by The Associated Press, to my knowledge) that WE can now kill journalists that WE deem to be "belligerents."
http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/06/p ... urnalists/

Thus, The Fourth Reich takes the lead over its axis of evil allies, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where journalists who dis the regime are usually just imprisoned.

"We have met the enemy..."
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:02 pm

More about the great ally that the US sends hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 36427.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Frank Hoffman » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:00 am

Tom-Palven wrote:More about the great ally that the US sends hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to.
I did think it was interesting that we could simply officially designate what happened was NOT a military coups in order to circumvent our own law and provide the aid. 'Sure seems like double-speak to me.

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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:53 pm

Frank Hoffman wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:More about the great ally that the US sends hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to.
I did think it was interesting that we could simply officially designate what happened was NOT a military coups in order to circumvent our own law and provide the aid. 'Sure seems like double-speak to me.
Sure does.

Here's the good news. Egypt's Prosecutor General had a mishap of extreme prejudice. Guess he was a belligerent.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2 ... ttack.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:30 am

Flash wrote:
And I agree with your view of "We" in this sense. Categorizing people as "Them" would be the same thing. Them so and so, and here comes a social and universal recommendation, need to be; reeducated, interned, rewarded, punished, whatever the rulers prescribe for "Them" all.

Orwell's and Huxley's fundamental point was that the populace of the future state consented to the oppression, perhaps because they believed the myth of "We". "We" need to submit to the status quo because otherwise "We" will not be "We", a society defined by the oppressors and that, in "Our" (manipulated) minds, would be a terrible thing. ;)
Exactly, Flash. You're speaking soundly.
This reminds me of the figure of the "contrarians", or those that even on those conditions were able to think for themselves, like the Savage or the main characters in Orwell's story. How were they seen by their societies?

See? I told you I had a feeling you and I would see eye to eye on these issues.

Now think.

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Re: Dystopia of Orwell vs Huxley and the reality now

Post by Flash » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:44 am

Yeap. cool supervitor. ;)
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry