Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

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Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Centaur » Fri May 08, 2015 5:14 pm

Here’s a link to a disquieting article about the dumbing down of our culture: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wi ... wn-america" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by JO 753 » Fri May 08, 2015 5:38 pm

Frum the artikl:
Keller also notes that the herd mentality takes over online; the anti-intellectuals become the metaphorical equivalent of an angry lynch mob when anyone either challenges one of the mob beliefs or posts anything outside the mob’s self-limiting set of values.
I coud tell you sum storyz!
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Monster » Fri May 08, 2015 5:51 pm

Keller also notes that the herd mentality takes over online; the anti-intellectuals become the metaphorical equivalent of an angry lynch mob when anyone either challenges one of the mob beliefs or posts anything outside the mob’s self-limiting set of values.
That happens every day.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri May 08, 2015 5:59 pm

The US is incredibly efficient at segregating people along all kinds of lines: ethnicity, gender, age, wealth, level of education, sexual and political orientation.
Whenever there is a way to distinguish a 'them' minority from an 'us' majority, opinion makers will try to isolate those who are 'not like us'.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri May 08, 2015 6:02 pm

The current trend of increasing anti-intellectualism now establishing itself in politics and business leadership, and supported by a declining education system should be a cause for concern for leaders and the general population,one that needs to be addressed now.
...while there's still a larger percentage of a rational population and leadership left...
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Cadmusteeth » Fri May 08, 2015 6:12 pm

People tend to believe what they fear or want to be true. Reading a book about why that is.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Centaur » Fri May 08, 2015 6:15 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:People tend to believe what they fear or want to be true. Reading a book about why that is.
Indeed, over 2000 years ago Julius Caesar wrote, "Most people believe what they 'want' to believe."

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Poodle » Fri May 08, 2015 6:23 pm

That's a very interesting concept if you look at its converse version.

How many people believe what they don't want to believe?

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Cadmusteeth » Fri May 08, 2015 6:45 pm

Poodle wrote: How many people believe what they don't want to believe?
I think that depends on how much consideration they're willing to put into those beliefs. From there you then would have to consider much of that belief they except and how far they're willing to go to learn more, if at all.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by JO 753 » Fri May 08, 2015 7:34 pm

I try to not beleev anything. A 'working theory' iz better. Helps keep me frum bekuming a sement hed.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by gorgeous » Fri May 08, 2015 9:49 pm

JO 753 wrote:Frum the artikl:
Keller also notes that the herd mentality takes over online; the anti-intellectuals become the metaphorical equivalent of an angry lynch mob when anyone either challenges one of the mob beliefs or posts anything outside the mob’s self-limiting set of values.
I coud tell you sum storyz!
---------------------the skeptics here became an angry mob over my fake and hollow moon and phobos thread....as well as others....it is true the skeptic mob doesn't like their beliefs challenged....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by gorgeous » Fri May 08, 2015 9:51 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
The current trend of increasing anti-intellectualism now establishing itself in politics and business leadership, and supported by a declining education system should be a cause for concern for leaders and the general population,one that needs to be addressed now.
...while there's still a larger percentage of a rational population and leadership left...
----------------who? ....some scientists have very irrational theories....and the Nazis were intellectuals...and fluoride was put into the water supply because it lowers I.Q.'s and makes people passive...used in concentration camps....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Poodle » Fri May 08, 2015 10:08 pm

gorgeous wrote:...it is true the skeptic mob doesn't like their beliefs challenged....
They certainly don't, gorgeous. And you know how that feels, don't you? Now, how about you go and respond to the questions already asked of you in other threads?

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by TJrandom » Fri May 08, 2015 10:29 pm

IMO.... Education needs to be funded. Private cult schools need to be eliminated, including home schooling. A nation-wide mandatory curriculum, attendance requirement, and a uniform testing standard need to be implemented. Certainly not everyone needs to go to college – and colleges and universities need to limit enrollment to those who have made it thru the mandatory gauntlet.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Gord » Sat May 09, 2015 2:28 am

JO 753 wrote:Frum the artikl:
Keller also notes that the herd mentality takes over online; the anti-intellectuals become the metaphorical equivalent of an angry lynch mob when anyone either challenges one of the mob beliefs or posts anything outside the mob’s self-limiting set of values.
I coud tell you sum storyz!
Do they involve you holding a torch and chanting something unpronounceable and misspelt? :heh:
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Hex » Sat May 09, 2015 4:08 pm

I find it puzzling when someone is proven wrong, proven, not a counter opinion, that they get offended and sometimes even angry, then respond to the proof by doubling down on their ignorance.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by JO 753 » Sat May 09, 2015 4:43 pm

Gord wrote:Do they involve you holding a torch and chanting something unpronounceable and misspelt? :heh:
Occasionally, depending on the project. Diverting and banashing an emerjing nyorlethotep from an old coolant tank for example.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Anomaly » Sat May 09, 2015 5:34 pm

JO 753 wrote: .Diverting and banashing an emerjing nyorlethotep from an old coolant tank for example.
What?

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Gord » Sat May 09, 2015 7:46 pm

Anomaly wrote:
JO 753 wrote:.Diverting and banashing an emerjing nyorlethotep from an old coolant tank for example.
What?
"Diverting and banana shins are energy Nyarlathotep from an old coolant tank, for example."

It's code. He's trying to let gorgeous know he knows she knows he knows about the Illuminati.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by JO 753 » Sat May 09, 2015 7:52 pm

Trying to get us all turned into glop? (and still alive!!!) The mispelling foolz it!

And I assume you wont be able to read this kuz They alredy picked you up. You will spend your last nonglop dayz tied to a chair ansering stoopid questionz.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by JO 753 » Sat May 09, 2015 7:56 pm

Anomaly wrote:What?
If left too long, gunk accumulating in the coolant tanks uv machinez often gets animated by that wich shall remain nameless.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Gord » Sat May 09, 2015 8:03 pm

JO 753 wrote:Trying to get us all turned into glop? (and still alive!!!) The mispelling foolz it!

And I assume you wont be able to read this kuz They alredy picked you up. You will spend your last nonglop dayz tied to a chair ansering stoopid questionz.
Causing madness is more important and enjoyable to him than death and destruction. I've assumed he was posting here all along.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Frank Hoffman » Fri May 15, 2015 3:09 am

From the article: “We don’t educate people anymore. We train them to get jobs.”

As always, follow the money; who benefits from having an ignorant and compliant population? It's more like "Brave New World" than "1984"... we rather enjoy being led; there will be no revolution.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by TJrandom » Fri May 15, 2015 5:16 am

Frank Hoffman wrote:From the article: “We don’t educate people anymore. We train them to get jobs.”

As always, follow the money; who benefits from having an ignorant and compliant population? It's more like "Brave New World" than "1984"... we rather enjoy being led; there will be no revolution.
To be quite honest - I question whether people are indeed trained to get jobs. Unskilled jobs, maybe....

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri May 15, 2015 5:40 am

TJrandom wrote:
Frank Hoffman wrote:From the article: “We don’t educate people anymore. We train them to get jobs.”

As always, follow the money; who benefits from having an ignorant and compliant population? It's more like "Brave New World" than "1984"... we rather enjoy being led; there will be no revolution.
To be quite honest - I question whether people are indeed trained to get jobs. Unskilled jobs, maybe....
A college degree helps getting a job to be trained in. For many the completed schooling also means they're in debt up to the eyebrows and so make for desperate and willing workers...
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by TJrandom » Fri May 15, 2015 7:15 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Frank Hoffman wrote:From the article: “We don’t educate people anymore. We train them to get jobs.”

As always, follow the money; who benefits from having an ignorant and compliant population? It's more like "Brave New World" than "1984"... we rather enjoy being led; there will be no revolution.
To be quite honest - I question whether people are indeed trained to get jobs. Unskilled jobs, maybe....
A college degree helps getting a job to be trained in. For many the completed schooling also means they're in debt up to the eyebrows and so make for desperate and willing workers...

Anyone who has racked up debt for education that isn`t readily repayable by their first jobs has made a poor investment, IMO. I put myself thru undergrad and a grad program while working full time and never incurred a debt, so know it can be done. As an employer I approved of and supported staff who were doing the same, knowing full well that they would likely move on as they completed their degrees. IMO it was a wise investment.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Frank Hoffman » Fri May 15, 2015 1:58 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:The US is incredibly efficient at segregating people along all kinds of lines: ethnicity, gender, age, wealth, level of education, sexual and political orientation.
True; in the 1850's we even had a national political party who called themselves The Know Nothings (officially the American Party). They succeeded in electing officials at the city, state, and (a couple at the) national level. U.S. President Millard Fillmore was (later) a member.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Frank Hoffman » Fri May 15, 2015 2:19 pm

TJrandom wrote:As an employer I approved of and supported staff who were doing the same, knowing full well that they would likely move on as they completed their degrees. IMO it was a wise investment.
You took into account the larger picture, unfortunately many employers do not. Because technology changes so quickly, many employers (or rather, company shareholders) not only decline to support employee's general education, they are unwilling to resource training in even currently required skills... skills which may soon be outsourced or automated. The company having abdicated responsibility for the preparation of individuals for specific jobs, the burden of training (time and money) is transferred to the prospective employee.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Austin Harper » Tue May 19, 2015 2:26 am

TJrandom wrote:I put myself thru undergrad and a grad program while working full time and never incurred a debt, so know it can be done.
May I ask when that was?
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by TJrandom » Tue May 19, 2015 6:25 am

Austin Harper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:I put myself thru undergrad and a grad program while working full time and never incurred a debt, so know it can be done.
May I ask when that was?
late `70s for undergrad, & finsihed the MBA in `84....

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Austin Harper » Tue May 19, 2015 9:29 pm

That's what I was guessing. You'll notice that an education now costs more than double what it did when you were there(adjusted for inflation).
REF: http://nces.ed.gov/FastFacts/display.asp?id=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by TJrandom » Tue May 19, 2015 11:19 pm

Austin Harper wrote:That's what I was guessing. You'll notice that an education now costs more than double what it did when you were there(adjusted for inflation).
REF: http://nces.ed.gov/FastFacts/display.asp?id=76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I`ll take your word for it, since I couldn`t make out the chart without spending more time on it than I wanted. But that doesn`t change, IMO, that it is still possible and prudent to self-fund instead of incurring debt - unless that debt can be repaid quickly.

I admit, I am a bit of a debt freak and even with real-estate would only take short term, fixed rate, and balloon payment possible loans. Otherwise no loans of any kind - credit cards auto debited in full each month, etc. I well remember my father`s retold experience of walking in the street, lest an upper story jumper take him out following the big crash. And I have seen people go thru bankruptcy – not a pretty sight. Except for education, medical (bills), and real-estate I always saved 50% or more, living as cheaply as possible to make that happen.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Austin Harper » Tue May 19, 2015 11:31 pm

Maybe this graph will make it easier to visualize.
Image

This is specifically for MSU but the trend is pretty universal. At 60 hours of work per credit hour you have to work 34 hours per week to pay for school (52 weeks per year) assuming a normal 15 credits per semester load.

I was lucky and my parents paid for my undergrad and my employer has paid for any grad classes I have taken but but that's not how it works for everyone. I don't know about you, but I was working on school 60+ hours per week so adding 34 hours of work wouldn't have rally been possible. There's no way I could have sustained 94 hour work weeks for four years non-stop.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by TJrandom » Tue May 19, 2015 11:46 pm

Austin Harper wrote:Maybe this graph will make it easier to visualize.
Image

This is specifically for MSU but the trend is pretty universal. At 60 hours of work per credit hour you have to work 34 hours per week to pay for school (52 weeks per year) assuming a normal 15 credits per semester load.

I was lucky and my parents paid for my undergrad and my employer has paid for any grad classes I have taken but but that's not how it works for everyone. I don't know about you, but I was working on school 60+ hours per week so adding 34 hours of work wouldn't have rally been possible. There's no way I could have sustained 94 hour work weeks for four years non-stop.
Yes - much clearer. I agree that I have been an exception - and even was back then. I worked for minimum wage at 13 or so, and never after. By HS graduation I was an accomplished carpenter, welder, farmer and jack of all trades - but more importantly I was driven by ambition, and both willing and able to tackle almost any job. I did a 6mo technical school and was able to get jobs in data processing. Most of my semesters were full loads even while a full time employee. Even then I tackled additional weekend jobs - cutting trees, hauling trash, repairing roofs, etc. I doubt that I spent 60hrs on school, but in total - significantly more than 100 hour weeks between school and work.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon May 25, 2015 10:28 pm

Found thanks to Gord's posts Image in the whatcha watchin' topic:

[ytube][/ytube]
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Frank Hoffman » Wed May 27, 2015 3:23 pm

Austin Harper wrote:...I was lucky...
Me too. I paid for most of my first 2 years in a community college with savings from my paper route (no kidding!) and while working at McDonalds. Then entered the U.S.Army and finished the Associates Degree while on active duty. I then went to ROTC and used the G.I. Bill for most of my Bachelor's Degree, working odd jobs for spending money. With the draw-down after Iraq/Afghanistan, the Army is much more picky now, and I doubt that if I were a young person today I would make the cut, and without it I could not have afforded college even then, let alone now.
Bottom line; timing is everything... I was very lucky.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by Flash » Thu May 28, 2015 5:07 am

Why is it that the Europeans can afford free education up to and including the university while some of the richest counties on the planet (USA, Canada) think they can't?
I know why Canada is failing in this respect. We've got now a corrupt right wing ruling elite in Ottawa that is more interested in keeping the 1% happy than in improving our health system and education. What's your reason America?
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by JO 753 » Thu May 28, 2015 5:14 am

Our reazon iz that the US iz a cattle ranch.

Everything iz ideally arranged to extract sum commodity from the cattle. "Everything but the squeel and we got the R&D department working on that" iz the old saying.
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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by xouper » Thu May 28, 2015 1:21 pm

Flash wrote:Why is it that the Europeans can afford free education up to and including the university while some of the richest counties on the planet (USA, Canada) think they can't? ... What's your reason America?
Be patient. We're working on it. America is becoming more and more socialist and it is only a matter of time before everyone is a ward of the state from cradle to grave.

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Re: Anti-Intellectualism and the "Dumbing Down" of America

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu May 28, 2015 3:59 pm

Was it the word "free"? It does seem to have different meanings in different parts of the world...
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Thu May 28, 2015 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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