Canadian Military Intervention

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Tom Palven
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Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:19 am

Canadian militarism addressed by Ron Paul:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/10/ron- ... ar-empire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:57 pm

Canada is a complex country, with a complex history and a complex way of looking at things. It is hard to make a general statement "Canada is militarising" and plug that into Canada's foreign policy and cultural " esprit de corps" and simultaneous peace movements over the last 50 years.

On one hand, during WWII Canadians were considered elite troops and were the troops that gave the German army "the willies" before battle ( according to John Keegan). So the US likes to involve Canada.

On the other hand, they did allow USA draft dodgers to relocate. ( Indeed the former banned member Numan, was one of those draft dodgers). So that made the USA angry.

I say.....let Canada do what Canada want's to do and just deal with supporting arguments on a case by case basis. Canada is not a threat to the rest of the world. and does good things by joining voting partnerships with other small countries like Australia, Holland and so on.

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Canada had a proud history of repelling the US.

http://www.cryslersfarm.com/battle.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hate to see it get sucked into this US Empire vortex.

You say allowing draft-dodgers to enter Canada "made the US angry." It may have made the powers-that-be angry, but after I was out of uniform and finally, imho, saw the light, it sure didn't make me angry.

Isn't Canada now at least somewhat of a threat to at least some part of the world when it bombs the Mid-East?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:17 am

Tom-Palven wrote:You say allowing draft-dodgers to enter Canada "made the US angry." It may have made the powers-that-be angry, but after I was out of uniform and finally, imho, saw the light, it sure didn't make me angry.
I have no problem with Vietnam war, draft dodgers. It was silly that the USA got involved in the Vietnamese war of independence against the French, anyway.
(However, it is easy to make comments in retrospect)

Tom-Palven wrote: Isn't Canada now at least somewhat of a threat to at least some part of the world when it bombs the Mid-East?
Well, as I said, everything should be reviewed on a case by case basis. Canada helped squash the Serbian aggression in Yugoslavia, which was a good thing. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the ISIL. I'm suspicious that it may be a "storm in a teacup" that only seems big because the USA has eroded Syrian military assets and perceived power, that normally tied these smaller insurgencies down.

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:25 am

Tom-Palven wrote: I hate to see it get sucked into this US Empire vortex.
That's a really hard question. It suggests the USA is "it's own vortex". I don't think it's that black & white. China has massively influenced the USA's economy. A "black guy" is president. There are many elements of US culture that leave this "vortex" and do good things around the world or respond to foreign imposed situations in a positive manner.

The USA is simply very big and slower to adapt. It's just maths. The USA's media power makes it look more prominent on the "world stage" than it really is.

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Gord » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:59 am

While Canada is certainly not joined to the hip with the US yet, our right-wing government is certainly trying to be more American than Canadian. In our name, Harper has been harming our environment, shifting the wealth toward the wealthy, and generally spitting on our freedoms. If he thought he could get away with it, he would dismantle our universal health insurance system.

And it's only going to get worse in the future, I fear.

I worry that there will be no escape from a Canada that has no place for me, and for which I no longer have a place.
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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:11 am

Gord wrote: I worry that there will be no escape from a Canada that has no place for me, and for which I no longer have a place.
Move down here. We are going through a one term conservative government "hiccup", because Labor (the socialist party) had a damaging leadership swap, that kept swapping. The only thing you probably won't like here is the heat in summer.

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:16 am

As long as it's got mosquitoes, he'll feel just like home. :-P
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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:47 am

Gord wrote: I worry that there will be no escape from a Canada that has no place for me, and for which I no longer have a place.
I've visited Canada many times, and used to think that it was a place I could escape to. Have also been to Australia and New Zealand, and they both have some appeal.

Now, I see the semi-socialist countries of Bolivia and Uruguay as somewhat inviting.

Uruguay has legalized gay marriage, and has legalized marihuana over the protests of the US DEA.

Bolivia has kicked out the DEA and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and its economy is said to be prospering.

I haven't been to either country, and alas, don't speak any Spanish, which I am told is not completely necessary, but I'm sure would be very helpful.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:58 pm

Harper will get unelected next year. Neither Mulcair nor Trudeau, the heirs apparent, is a closet American. We will see.
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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Gord » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gord wrote: I worry that there will be no escape from a Canada that has no place for me, and for which I no longer have a place.
Move down here. We are going through a one term conservative government "hiccup", because Labor (the socialist party) had a damaging leadership swap, that kept swapping. The only thing you probably won't like here is the heat in summer.
I heard Australia was on fire and will be nothing but a burnt ember this time next year. (I think Sweatpee told me that.)
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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Gord » Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:03 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:Harper will get unelected next year.
I don't believe that. He seems to be enacting enough secret legislation that the big corporations will buy him another term, if they're able.

Money and fraud seems to have purchased Winnipeg's mayoral and city council seats again this year. The winners hired the same PR companies Harper & Co. used last time, and practiced the same tactics.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:02 pm

New air strikes by Canadian air force:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 12457.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Gord » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:21 am

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Scoobydooby » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:28 pm

As a Canadian and a tax payer and a person of no- faith I have no idea why we are in the fight in Syria/ Iraq.
I'm just putting my cards on the table, I'm a proud Canadian who likes Canada's peacekeeping role. I know a guy my age who went to Cyprus to keep the peace. A little less fanatical and blow-upy than the current situation in Syria and Iraq these days.

I'm a tax payer here so it pisses me off that Harper does seem to be sucking up to the U.S. And doing what big brother asks of us.

I'm a person of no belief in god, gods, goddesses.... So it pisses me off that some young Canadians, Americans, Belgians, etc. May end up killed in a battle in a land that has been doing this Shia, Sunni, Shiite killing on their own for way too long.

My point is this, maybe the richer than Croesus Saudis can fund the peacekeeping there? Maybe it can be mopped up and human rights watched by a pan-Arab coalition.

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:14 pm

Scoobydooby wrote:As a Canadian and a tax payer and a person of no- faith I have no idea why we are in the fight in Syria/ Iraq.
I'm just putting my cards on the table, I'm a proud Canadian who likes Canada's peacekeeping role. I know a guy my age who went to Cyprus to keep the peace. A little less fanatical and blow-upy than the current situation in Syria and Iraq these days.

I'm a tax payer here so it pisses me off that Harper does seem to be sucking up to the U.S. And doing what big brother asks of us.

I'm a person of no belief in god, gods, goddesses.... So it pisses me off that some young Canadians, Americans, Belgians, etc. May end up killed in a battle in a land that has been doing this Shia, Sunni, Shiite killing on their own for way too long.

My point is this, maybe the richer than Croesus Saudis can fund the peacekeeping there? Maybe it can be mopped up and human rights watched by a pan-Arab coalition.
You might take a look at this Wikipedia article when contemplating Saudi Arabian peacekeeping:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The royal family and other royal elites in Saudi might be richer than Croceus, but the average income is listed as $15,000 per year, and it is illegal for reporters to discuss poverty.

Saudi Arabia is arguably the most repressive country in the world. "Freedom of religion is neither recognized nor practiced," nor is freedom of speech. "Atheists are officially identified as terrorists"

There are no jury trials. People are legally tortured. Nineteen people were beheaded in August, alone.

It is the only country in the world where women are not allowed to drive cars.

And so on.

How about the other greatest ally of the US (except for little nuclear power, Israel), Egypt?

Egypt had a relatively moderate and secular government under the democratically-elected Muslim Brotherhood, which was overthrown by General al-Sisi while the US CENTCOM and CIA stood by and watched the coup or actively assisted. The US now supports al-Sisi to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Since the coup, Muslim Brotherhood officials and Al Jazeera reporters have been imprisoned by al-Sisi and remain in prison after 300 days, and political opponents have been imprisoned after being branded as homosexuals.

This is what the US, and now also Canada, supports. The argument we hear from the US State Department is that Mid-Eastern rebels, especially ISIS, are worse than either the government of Saudi Arabia or Egypt, and if those governments were overthrown, ISIS might possibly, eventually take power.

Imho, this is like saying to Europeans in the 1940's that if The Third Reich were overthrown, that something worse might take its place.

Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the other Mid-Eastern kingdoms and dictatorships have their own armies and air forces. If they can't defend themselves against their own homeboys, and need US and Canadian support, what does this say about their popularity among the general populace?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Scoobydooby » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:34 am

I'm just sick of our kids going to some piss-{!#%@} countries to fix them. Guess what? As soon as we leave they'll be right back at it again.

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Re: Canadian Military Intervention

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:38 am

Views on the Mid-East mess from Rush drummer, Neil Pert:

http://bionicmosquito.blogspot.rs/2015/ ... .html#more
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire