Ideomotor effect

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:21 pm

Canadian Skeptic wrote:
As Poodle mentioned, what's happening here is that you're mentally estimating the time that they should cross the line, not dowsing. That's why it works with people -- who normally start around the time you say they start, and follow a predictable pace and path once they do -- but not your dog..
I get no response when dowsing my dog crossing even when I'm facing it head on. With people all I know ( assume ) is that they are walking, I have no idea which way they are walking or when they will eventually cross the line. All I know is that they will cross it at a normal walking pace.

Canadian Skeptic wrote:Put on headphones and have the person start whenever they like, after your back is turned. Have them start anywhere from within 30 to 90 seconds (at their discretion, not yours), then move at a steady pace. Again, you need to make sure not only that your back is turned (preferably blind folded as well, to prevent seeing their shadow, etc.), but that you also have headphones with sound/music playing, to prevent you from hearing them...
Deaf people don't need headphones.
Canadian Skeptic wrote:Do that, and I doubt your rods will continue working.
Whereabouts in Canada do you live ?

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:43 pm

^Flobalob wrote:Deaf people don't need headphones.
Flobalob wrote:I am at least 50% deaf due to too much shooting without adequate protection.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 28#p430020" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


That's not fully deaf...
https://www.deaftec.org/content/deaf-definitions wrote:
Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing: Some Definitions

Although the term “deaf” is often mistakenly used to refer to all individuals with hearing difficulties, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) actually describes “deaf” as those individuals who do not hear well enough to rely on their hearing to process speech and language. Individuals with mild to moderate hearing loss may be “hard of hearing,” but are not “deaf.” ...
Who knows what range you hear well enough... have you been tested?
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Canadian Skeptic » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:53 pm

Flobalob wrote:I get no response when dowsing my dog crossing even when I'm facing it head on. With people all I know ( assume ) is that they are walking, I have no idea which way they are walking or when they will eventually cross the line. All I know is that they will cross it at a normal walking pace.
/Shrug. Do the experiment. Let us know how it turns out.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:41 am

Canadian Skeptic wrote:
Flobalob wrote:I get no response when dowsing my dog crossing even when I'm facing it head on. With people all I know ( assume ) is that they are walking, I have no idea which way they are walking or when they will eventually cross the line. All I know is that they will cross it at a normal walking pace.
/Shrug. Do the experiment. Let us know how it turns out.
I did it months ago using ear defenders, it makes no difference whatsoever.

Where in Canada do you live ?

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Canadian Skeptic » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:15 am

Flobalob wrote:I did it months ago using ear defenders, it makes no difference whatsoever.
You instructed your participant to wait between 30 and 90 seconds -- at their discretion -- before moving at their natural pace?

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:27 am

Canadian Skeptic wrote:
Flobalob wrote:I did it months ago using ear defenders, it makes no difference whatsoever.
You instructed your participant to wait between 30 and 90 seconds -- at their discretion -- before moving at their natural pace?
I asked them to start walking when I said go ahead, but to take a route of their choosing. I have waited up to five boring minutes.

WHERE DO YOU LIVE ?

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Canadian Skeptic » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:31 am

Flobalob wrote:WHERE DO YOU LIVE ?
Canada.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:46 am

:lol:
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:25 pm

Canadian Skeptic wrote:
Flobalob wrote:WHERE DO YOU LIVE ?
Canada.
Me too.
  How come I've never seen him? Hmmmm  
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Poodle » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:21 pm

There's at least a half-dozen or so of you Canadians on this site. Surely you see each other most days.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:25 am

Poodle wrote:There's at least a half-dozen or so of you Canadians on this site. Surely you see each other most days.
I thought they all lived together.
:D

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by kennyc » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Poodle wrote:There's at least a half-dozen or so of you Canadians on this site. Surely you see each other most days.
I thought they all lived together.
:D
I have it on good authority they all get together daily for dinner and drinks (that cheap Canadian stuff) and talk about Poodle and Pyrrho.
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:10 am

kennyc wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Poodle wrote:There's at least a half-dozen or so of you Canadians on this site. Surely you see each other most days.
I thought they all lived together.
:D
I have it on good authority they all get together daily for dinner and drinks (that cheap Canadian stuff) and talk about Poodle and Pyrrho.
That's incredible. I can't wait to tell Major Malfunction. (He's in the shower at the moment).

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:43 pm

kennyc wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Poodle wrote:There's at least a half-dozen or so of you Canadians on this site. Surely you see each other most days.
I thought they all lived together.
:D
I have it on good authority they all get together daily for dinner and drinks (that cheap Canadian stuff) and talk about Poodle and Pyrrho.
Indeed, we are all Pyrrhomaniacs.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:08 pm

Hot stuff... for heat in the winter and against mosquitoes in the summer? :-P
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by kennyc » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:48 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
kennyc wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Poodle wrote:There's at least a half-dozen or so of you Canadians on this site. Surely you see each other most days.
I thought they all lived together.
:D
I have it on good authority they all get together daily for dinner and drinks (that cheap Canadian stuff) and talk about Poodle and Pyrrho.
That's incredible. I can't wait to tell Major Malfunction. (He's in the shower at the moment).
Is Lance still sleeping?
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:52 pm

Maybe, it's still early in Paradise. :-P

But what about AKALuke. Time for him to wake up, haven't seen him around in a while...
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by octopus1 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:29 pm

Two people sitting opposite each other on a train, with their laptops. You know, professional style.

One of them types furiously, arousing the attention of the other:

"Sorry, it's just this dick I'm speaking with online!"
"Ah that's OK, I've got the same problem!"
"Some people never learn..."
"Nope..."

---
Image

Now imagine that they're Canadian Skeptic and Flobalob :shock:
"On the fence".... Without a cushion....

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:50 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: That's incredible. I can't wait to tell Major Malfunction. (He's in the shower at the moment).
kennyc wrote: Is Lance still sleeping?
Lance is a "Kiwi". Major Malfunction and I are "Skips". That means that Lance probably gets the biggest bedroom as an international guest. in our shared Australia house.

( I don't know if there is any equivalent to this in the USA, but in Sydney, we used to have a "New Zealand" suburb, called Bondi, This was a good thing because after a while, no one could hear New Zealand dialects any more and Aussies and Kiwis became interchangeable. In the very long run, Australia and New Zealand probably should form a federation, but New Zealand has traditionally been more politically modern and there is advantage in Australia copying independent New Zealand policies, after watching New Zealand "test the water". )

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:55 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:56 am

Flobalob wrote:
Fast forward to the end to see the key flip and wobble. I think it's the old "over balanced" object magic trick. The key is held by sweat and is already in position when the video starts. (The "give away")

I don't know what the "jolt trigger" is, but the elasticised sleeve, makes me think a fan blowing air, like the "magnetic cigarette magic trick" and because all mobile objects have been removed from the scene.

You can buy this exact magical "Rolling Key" trick from this website and watch a magician doing the exact same trick.

http://www.freemagictricks4u.com/teleki ... nners.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Flobalob, you should be ashamed of yourself falling for a hundred year old magic trick and more so, for posting it on a skeptical forum as "real".

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:13 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Flobalob wrote:
Fast forward to the end to see the key flip and wobble. I think it's the old "over balanced" object magic trick. The key is held by sweat and is already in position when the video starts. (The "give away")

I don't know what the "jolt trigger" is, but the elasticised sleeve, makes me think a fan blowing air, like the "magnetic cigarette magic trick" and because all mobile objects have been removed from the scene.

You can buy this exact magical "Rolling Key" trick from this website and watch a magician doing the exact same trick.

http://www.freemagictricks4u.com/teleki ... nners.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/color]
Thanks, Matthew. :-D
Flobalob, you should be ashamed of yourself falling for a hundred year old magic trick and more so, for posting it on a skeptical forum as "real".
Erm... I think he wants us (and others) to "fall for it"... :roll:
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:25 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Flobalob wrote:
Fast forward to the end to see the key flip and wobble. I think it's the old "over balanced" object magic trick. The key is held by sweat and is already in position when the video starts. (The "give away")

I don't know what the "jolt trigger" is, but the elasticised sleeve, makes me think a fan blowing air, like the "magnetic cigarette magic trick" and because all mobile objects have been removed from the scene.

You can buy this exact magical "Rolling Key" trick from this website and watch a magician doing the exact same trick.

http://www.freemagictricks4u.com/teleki ... nners.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Flobalob, you should be ashamed of yourself falling for a hundred year old magic trick and more so, for posting it on a skeptical forum as "real".
I never claimed it was real, I just posted a link. :lol:

As it happens it's me that's holding the key on my hand, I did it to demonstrate the ideomotor effect.

I will make another video if you would like, only this time I will do it according to your instructions. Which are ?

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:39 am

Flobalob wrote: I never claimed it was real, I just posted a link. As it happens it's me that's holding the key on my hand, I did it to demonstrate the ideomotor effect.
So you posted a video of you doing the "overbalanced Key" magic trick, without saying it was a magic trick, on a forum, where you claim the ability to perform telekinesis and douse water?

Nice try, but we now know you are "a fake" who cheats on a science forum.

At least, Uri Geller, didn't use $2 tricks from the local magic shop against James Randi, a professional magician. You really should have asked if there were any magicians here before trying that obvious old stage trick.


Flobalob wrote:I will make another video if you would like, only this time I will do it according to your instructions. Which are ?
Saw the next douser, you meet, in half and film it as you put him back together.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:48 am

scrmbldggs wrote: Erm... I think he wants us (and others) to "fall for it"... :roll:
Of course he wanted us to "fall for it". He's a silly boy. This forum has a couple hundred members, all with different skills and hobbies and all of us love pulling apart magic tricks, because it's a skeptic forum.

Rule No. 1 for Entertainers "Know your audience"

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:56 am

Just for the record......

Here is the commercial magic trick in action.........

phpBB [video]

Here is Flobabob's video if him using "will power" as it says on his own You tube video, to trick the public. ( He doesn't mention it is a magic trick, anywhere, in the video, on his you tube page and so on.)
phpBB [video]

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Flobalob wrote: I never claimed it was real, I just posted a link. As it happens it's me that's holding the key on my hand, I did it to demonstrate the ideomotor effect.
So you posted a video of you doing the "overbalanced Key" magic trick, without saying it was a magic trick, on a forum, where you claim the ability to perform telekinesis and douse water?

Nice try, but we now know you are "a fake" who cheats on a science forum.

At least, Uri Geller, didn't use $2 tricks from the local magic shop against James Randi, a professional magician. You really should have asked if there were any magicians here before trying that obvious old stage trick.


Flobalob wrote:I will make another video if you would like, only this time I will do it according to your instructions. Which are ?
Saw the next douser, you meet, in half and film it as you put him back together.
Come on play fair and tell me how you would like me to make another video. I can't think of any way that I can be more helpful. No sleeve ? tissues hanging on strings ? my middle finger against a wall ? These are just my suggestions, I will do anything you ask as long as it's reasonable.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:51 am

Canadian Skeptic wrote:
Flobalob wrote:I get no response when dowsing my dog crossing even when I'm facing it head on. With people all I know ( assume ) is that they are walking, I have no idea which way they are walking or when they will eventually cross the line. All I know is that they will cross it at a normal walking pace.
/Shrug. Do the experiment. Let us know how it turns out.
Why don't you start with this request?
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:03 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Canadian Skeptic wrote:
Flobalob wrote:I get no response when dowsing my dog crossing even when I'm facing it head on. With people all I know ( assume ) is that they are walking, I have no idea which way they are walking or when they will eventually cross the line. All I know is that they will cross it at a normal walking pace.
/Shrug. Do the experiment. Let us know how it turns out.
Why don't you start with this request?
I already did.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:06 am

I can't help getting the feeling that you lot don't want to know that the key thing is not a trick.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:14 am

Flobalob wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Canadian Skeptic wrote:
Flobalob wrote:I get no response when dowsing my dog crossing even when I'm facing it head on. With people all I know ( assume ) is that they are walking, I have no idea which way they are walking or when they will eventually cross the line. All I know is that they will cross it at a normal walking pace.
/Shrug. Do the experiment. Let us know how it turns out.
Why don't you start with this request?
I already did.
So you started... and?
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:44 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Flobalob wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Canadian Skeptic wrote:
Flobalob wrote:I get no response when dowsing my dog crossing even when I'm facing it head on. With people all I know ( assume ) is that they are walking, I have no idea which way they are walking or when they will eventually cross the line. All I know is that they will cross it at a normal walking pace.
/Shrug. Do the experiment. Let us know how it turns out.
Why don't you start with this request?
I already did.
So you started... and?

Do you mean stated ?

And........Lack of hearing ability makes no difference. OK ?

Just for the moment I would like to concentrate on showing the key thing is not a trick. It is simply a demonstration of the ideomotor effect which is a natural thing, it can be achieved by anyone in the right state of mind. It is even recognised by the great Mr Randi no less. :)

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Poodle » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:29 am

Flobalob wrote:I can't help getting the feeling that you lot don't want to know that the key thing is not a trick.
Oh come on, now.

Jumping forward a few times in the video CLEARLY shows your arm dropping slowly.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:38 am

Poodle wrote:
Flobalob wrote:I can't help getting the feeling that you lot don't want to know that the key thing is not a trick.
Oh come on, now.

Jumping forward a few times in the video CLEARLY shows your arm dropping slowly.
Yes it does. Next time I video it my middle finger will be against a wall so that my arm will not move up or down. I have tried it already, it works just the same.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:37 am

Flobalob wrote: Yes it does. Next time I video it my middle finger will be against a wall so that my arm will not move up or down. I have tried it already, it works just the same.
Bend you knees.jpg
Levitation Trick.jpg
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:05 am

Porkymagictrick.jpg
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Monster » Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:29 pm

Flobalob wrote:
You gave a description of "will power" to this video. Will power to do what? Hold a key?
I never claimed it was real, I just posted a link. :lol:
Completely lame response.

EDIT: I see now. The key is slowly rotating. Yeah, your arm went down. Very unimpressive.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:49 am

Monster wrote: Completely lame response.
Lame but true !

Monster wrote:[EDIT: I see now. The key is slowly rotating. Yeah, your arm went down. Very unimpressive.
Would my arm going up suit you better ? Either works just the same :D

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:58 am

Of course your tricks work but they are pretty coarse. About fine movements, ask those who do this kind of work.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:14 pm

Why everyone here thinks it's a trick is beyond me. The ideomotor effect is recognised by others.