Ideomotor effect

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Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:33 am

Can anyone here explain how the ideomotor effect works ? I have discovered that I have a strong ideomotor ability, and would like to understand more about what seems to be a very real phenomenon.

Thanks :D

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:08 am

Flobalob wrote:Can anyone here explain how the ideomotor effect works ? I have discovered that I have a strong ideomotor ability, and would like to understand more about what seems to be a very real phenomenon.

Thanks :D
Hi Flobalob, welcome to the forums.

Maybe these can answer your question:
http://www.skepdic.com/ideomotor.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.skepdic.com/cleverhans.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... motor.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... ts/ak.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_phenomenon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:20 am

Thanks for the links scrmbldggs. It's all very interesting, particularly the article about the horse :) I understand that this is down to the ideomotor effect...... " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't buy the "micro muscle movements" as the key is just resting on top of the hand. I can do this, and they key rolls in the same direction as on the video, but when my wife does it the key turns the other way.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:44 pm

I'm still looking for a simple scientific explanation.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:01 am

It is heavily influenced by, and follows, suggestion.

Some don't know that and take it for reals, other do know that and use it for scams.
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:03 am

It appears you either want it to be real, or are trying to "sell it" as such. Which one is it?
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:12 am

scrmbldggs wrote:It appears you either want it to be real, or are trying to "sell it" as such. Which one is it?
Neither. I know it is real, but am still looking for an understandable scientific explanation. It is something that appears to be recognised by some scientists as real, and also James Randi etc but I am unable to find how they have come to that conclusion.
They explain certain phenomena as being due to the ideomotor effect as if their explanation makes it acceptable. I don't find it acceptable as I have not yet found scientific evidence of how the ideomotor effect works.

I am highly skeptical of Mr Randi's claims :D

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Fab Yolis » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:38 am

Flobalob wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:It appears you either want it to be real, or are trying to "sell it" as such. Which one is it?
Neither. I know it is real, but am still looking for an understandable scientific explanation. It is something that appears to be recognised by some scientists as real, and also James Randi etc but I am unable to find how they have come to that conclusion.
They explain certain phenomena as being due to the ideomotor effect as if their explanation makes it acceptable. I don't find it acceptable as I have not yet found scientific evidence of how the ideomotor effect works.

I am highly skeptical of Mr Randi's claims :D
Not all bodily movements require conscious intent and control. Do you marvel when your hair stands on end because you are scared, or when you get goosebumps on your skin because you're having an emotionally moving experience?

The human mind is very good at deceiving itself, and this capacity for self-deception can include subconsciously orchestrating movements which we would normally think of as requiring "conscious intent". One example I witnessed recently was a fitness instructor demonstrating the alleged vibrations of her energy field in response to her emotional state. The fitness instructor dangled a crystal on a piece of string in front of her chest, and as she thought a stressful thought the crystal started to swing around. She then thought a happy thought and the swinging of the crystal decreased noticeably. What was clearly going on in this situation was that thinking the stressful thought caused her heart rate to increase and her muscles to tense up. This in turn caused the muscles in the fingers she was holding the string with to shake slightly. The inertial properties of the crystal dangling on a piece of string then amplified this effect, because her bodily tension was being transmitted from her body through the string and then to the crystal, and from here it had no further place to go except into the air. When she thought the happy thought, her heart rate decreased and her muscles relaxed, which meant they were shaking less and that there was less momentum to cause the crystal to swing around.
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:47 am

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:Not all bodily movements require conscious intent and control.


Absolutely. A professional card player will always observe the other players for unconscious "tells". We even have old expressions like "keeping a poker face" that indicate people are very aware they make subconscious movements.

As for 19th century "Ouija board", I follow Harry Houdini's opinion from Scientific American. "Chicago women invited men for personal readings in their parlours for a fee" and neither of them looked at the Ouija board. They were prostitutes advertising their services. In the 40's, this changed to "French polishing". I doubt many people have actually played seriously with a Ouija board at all.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:54 am

I look at tits on display.
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:06 am

Major Malfunction wrote:I look at tits on display.
That would be Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hamburg or Copenhagen. They are less subtle than America.
amsterdam-prostitute1.jpg
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:26 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:I look at tits on display.
That would be Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hamburg or Copenhagen. They are less subtle than America.
amsterdam-prostitute1.jpg
You've never been to the US, have you?
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:38 am

scrmbldggs wrote: You've never been to the US, have you?
No. It's pretty obvious isn't it?

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by TJrandom » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:59 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:I look at tits on display.
That would be Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Hamburg or Copenhagen. They are less subtle than America.
amsterdam-prostitute1.jpg
That is me in the foreground... with the back of my head to the camera.... :D

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: You've never been to the US, have you?
No. It's pretty obvious isn't it?
There are some offices and other dwellings. Besides that, it's mostly a church on every corner and three adult toy stores between them. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:27 am

scrmbldggs wrote: There are some offices and other dwellings. Besides that, it's mostly a church on every corner and three adult toy stores between them. :mrgreen:
I'm now assuming you don't live in an Amish community or perhaps one in California.
:D

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:30 am

TJrandom wrote:That is me in the foreground... with the back of my head to the camera....
Well, I'm very glad it wasn't you in the window. We may have already "met" or something........that would be a bit weird in future forum conversations.....
:D

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by TJrandom » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
TJrandom wrote:That is me in the foreground... with the back of my head to the camera....
Well, I'm very glad it wasn't you in the window. We may have already "met" or something........that would be a bit weird in future forum conversations.....
:D
But I am in the window... look carefully, and you can see my reflection. :oops:

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by kennyc » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:32 am

Too Much Information!!!!

:lol:
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:13 pm

Venerable Kwan Tam Woo wrote:
Not all bodily movements require conscious intent and control. Do you marvel when your hair stands on end because you are scared, or when you get goosebumps on your skin because you're having an emotionally moving experience?

The human mind is very good at deceiving itself, and this capacity for self-deception can include subconsciously orchestrating movements which we would normally think of as requiring "conscious intent". One example I witnessed recently was a fitness instructor demonstrating the alleged vibrations of her energy field in response to her emotional state. The fitness instructor dangled a crystal on a piece of string in front of her chest, and as she thought a stressful thought the crystal started to swing around. She then thought a happy thought and the swinging of the crystal decreased noticeably. What was clearly going on in this situation was that thinking the stressful thought caused her heart rate to increase and her muscles to tense up. This in turn caused the muscles in the fingers she was holding the string with to shake slightly. The inertial properties of the crystal dangling on a piece of string then amplified this effect, because her bodily tension was being transmitted from her body through the string and then to the crystal, and from here it had no further place to go except into the air. When she thought the happy thought, her heart rate decreased and her muscles relaxed, which meant they were shaking less and that there was less momentum to cause the crystal to swing around.
I can agree with all of that.

I don't disagree for one second that it's me who causes the key or rods to move, it can't be anyone else as I'm the only one holding them.
How it works exactly is still a mystery to me, especially the key thing. I know it's due to hypnosis, but that's all at the moment.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:13 am

Flobalob wrote: How it works exactly is still a mystery to me, especially the key thing. I know it's due to hypnosis, but that's all at the moment.
Problem solved
1) You know your "gift" exists due to hypnosis.
2) Hypnosis relies on the power of suggestion from an external source.
3) You have suggested to yourself you have "this gift".
4) You now consciously think you have "this gift"


Self-Hypnosis requires four distinct steps.

Step 1: Motivation. Without this motivation or dire need, the individual will find it difficult to practice self-hypnosis

Step 2: Relaxation: The individual must be thoroughly relaxed and must set aside time to perform this act. Additionally, distractions should be eliminated as full attention is needed.

Step 3: Concentration: the individual needs to concentrate completely as energy is generated each time the mind focuses on a single image.

Step 4: Directing: This is an option used only when the individual wants to work on a specific goal. The individual must direct their concentration on visualizing the desired result

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: There are some offices and other dwellings. Besides that, it's mostly a church on every corner and three adult toy stores between them. :mrgreen:
I'm now assuming you don't live in an Amish community or perhaps one in Kansas. :D
:mrgreen:
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:51 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Flobalob wrote: How it works exactly is still a mystery to me, especially the key thing. I know it's due to hypnosis, but that's all at the moment.
Problem solved
1) You know your "gift" exists due to hypnosis.
2) Hypnosis relies on the power of suggestion from an external source.
3) You have suggested to yourself you have "this gift".
4) You now consciously think you have "this gift"


Self-Hypnosis requires four distinct steps.

Step 1: Motivation. Without this motivation or dire need, the individual will find it difficult to practice self-hypnosis

Step 2: Relaxation: The individual must be thoroughly relaxed and must set aside time to perform this act. Additionally, distractions should be eliminated as full attention is needed.

Step 3: Concentration: the individual needs to concentrate completely as energy is generated each time the mind focuses on a single image.

Step 4: Directing: This is an option used only when the individual wants to work on a specific goal. The individual must direct their concentration on visualizing the desired result

I don't have a "gift ", other people can do exactly the same as me.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Monster » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:13 pm

Flobalob, I suggest you do some scientific experiments with your amazing talents and teach the world how to do the same. You could be world famous.
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:28 pm

Monster wrote:Flobalob, I suggest you do some scientific experiments with your amazing talents and teach the world how to do the same. You could be world famous.
I experiment all the time, but they are hardly amazing talents as lot's of other people can do exactly the same as me. What I have done that is different however, is to discover through experimentation certain effects that dowsers have not been aware of previously.

The thing that I find strange about this is that the dowsing establishment don't seem to like it, why this is I have no idea. I like it because the effects can be demonstrated over and over in public and it leaves people gob smacked. :)

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Canadian Skeptic » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:37 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:You are mistaking normal physical functions for something special. Close your eyes and your hearing improves. Visual processing changes and enhances audible processing.
Hey scrmbldggs, sorry to jump in randomly, I think you’re spot on regarding Flobalob mistaking something normal for something special. However, I just wanted to correct one very minor detail: your hearing doesn’t actually improve if you close your eyes. That’s actually one of those rampant myths (along with people only using 10% of their brains – total myth).

It is possible that you might be able to concentrate a little better on what you’re hearing, but your hearing itself doesn’t actually improve. So if there was a sound you couldn’t hear before, then you still won’t be able to hear it if you close your eyes. However, if you simply didn’t notice a sound before, then you *might* be able to hear it if you close your eyes and start listening for it.

It’s a matter of concentration, not aptitude. Subtle difference and doesn’t change the overall meaning of what you were saying, but just thought I would clarify!

I hope you don’t mind :)

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:58 pm

Canadian Skeptic wrote: I think you’re spot on regarding Flobalob mistaking something normal for something special.
I don't think it's special, I just think it's strange. Everyone who witnesses it thinks it's strange. Whereabouts in Canada do you live ? I live in Saskatchewan, perhaps I can show you. Maybe you can do it too !
Last edited by Flobalob on Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:58 pm

Canadian Skeptic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:You are mistaking normal physical functions for something special. Close your eyes and your hearing improves. Visual processing changes and enhances audible processing.
Hey scrmbldggs, sorry to jump in randomly, I think you’re spot on regarding Flobalob mistaking something normal for something special. However, I just wanted to correct one very minor detail: your hearing doesn’t actually improve if you close your eyes. That’s actually one of those rampant myths (along with people only using 10% of their brains – total myth).

It is possible that you might be able to concentrate a little better on what you’re hearing, but your hearing itself doesn’t actually improve. So if there was a sound you couldn’t hear before, then you still won’t be able to hear it if you close your eyes. However, if you simply didn’t notice a sound before, then you *might* be able to hear it if you close your eyes and start listening for it.

It’s a matter of concentration, not aptitude. Subtle difference and doesn’t change the overall meaning of what you were saying, but just thought I would clarify!

I hope you don’t mind :)
Not at all. I very much appreciate it! :-D

I've come across a few articles mentioning how much the visual process is taking up and it seems established that in blind people the freed up energy can help with (what I called) hearing, but also that similar happens by simply closing the eyes, helping the processing of the input, I guess. It would make sense to me, considering how the body, for example, allots blood to certain regions for certain functions, and not the same amount to all areas at the same time.



Edit: Shortened post. And add request for possibly needed corrections.
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by kennyc » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:31 pm

Flobalob wrote:
Monster wrote:Flobalob, I suggest you do some scientific experiments with your amazing talents and teach the world how to do the same. You could be world famous.
I experiment all the time, but they are hardly amazing talents as lot's of other people can do exactly the same as me. What I have done that is different however, is to discover through experimentation certain effects that dowsers have not been aware of previously.

The thing that I find strange about this is that the dowsing establishment don't seem to like it, why this is I have no idea. I like it because the effects can be demonstrated over and over in public and it leaves people gob smacked. :)
Well then as Monster says. Get crackin' you can change the world!
This is revolutionary in many fields of science. The world is waiting and here you are farting around on an internet forum. Go man go!
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:29 pm

kennyc wrote:
Flobalob wrote:
Monster wrote:Flobalob, I suggest you do some scientific experiments with your amazing talents and teach the world how to do the same. You could be world famous.
I experiment all the time, but they are hardly amazing talents as lot's of other people can do exactly the same as me. What I have done that is different however, is to discover through experimentation certain effects that dowsers have not been aware of previously.

The thing that I find strange about this is that the dowsing establishment don't seem to like it, why this is I have no idea. I like it because the effects can be demonstrated over and over in public and it leaves people gob smacked. :)
Well then as Monster says. Get crackin' you can change the world!
This is revolutionary in many fields of science. The world is waiting and here you are farting around on an internet forum. Go man go!
Apart from demonstrate it there is there is nothing I can do.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:30 pm

Flobalob wrote:Apart from demonstrate it there is there is nothing I can do.
If you can demonstrate it, Flobalob, then there is a $1,000,000 cheque just waiting for you. Contact the James Randi Foundation. Dowsing is one of the areas acceptable for the challenge.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:22 pm

Poodle wrote:
Flobalob wrote:Apart from demonstrate it there is there is nothing I can do.
If you can demonstrate it, Flobalob, then there is a $1,000,000 cheque just waiting for you. Contact the James Randi Foundation. Dowsing is one of the areas acceptable for the challenge.
I have thought about it. Trouble is that this is not dowsing in the normal sense, there is no water or anything like that involved, just people. Does that meet the challenges definition of dowsing ?

I doubt you will believe me, but I really am not concerned about the money. I am concerned that it be investigated properly and impartially.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by kennyc » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:24 pm

Flobalob wrote:
Poodle wrote:
Flobalob wrote:Apart from demonstrate it there is there is nothing I can do.
If you can demonstrate it, Flobalob, then there is a $1,000,000 cheque just waiting for you. Contact the James Randi Foundation. Dowsing is one of the areas acceptable for the challenge.
I have thought about it. Trouble is that this is not dowsing in the normal sense, there is no water or anything like that involved, just people. Does that meet the challenges definition of dowsing ?

I doubt you will believe me, but I really am not concerned about the money. I am concerned that it be investigated properly and impartially.
Now the real BS starts. Pure trolling.
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:55 pm

Flobalob wrote:
Poodle wrote:
Flobalob wrote:Apart from demonstrate it there is there is nothing I can do.
If you can demonstrate it, Flobalob, then there is a $1,000,000 cheque just waiting for you. Contact the James Randi Foundation. Dowsing is one of the areas acceptable for the challenge.
I have thought about it. Trouble is that this is not dowsing in the normal sense, there is no water or anything like that involved, just people. Does that meet the challenges definition of dowsing ?

I doubt you will believe me, but I really am not concerned about the money. I am concerned that it be investigated properly and impartially.
I would imagine that if whatever you can do belongs in that group of things which would normally be described by others as paranormal, then the Randi Foundation would take it into consideration. Why don't you have a go at explaining to us EXACTLY what you think you can do. Are you, for instance, claiming that you can identify someone who is carrying something, has done something, or has been standing on a certain spot? If you were demonstrating your talent for a friend, how would you describe what you were about to do?

I've seen your video in which you appear to know when your wife (?) crosses a line, for instance. Could you do that if there was a screen between you? Is there a range beyond which you cannot do this? (I'm actually asking you how good your hearing is, and do you have wide peripheral vision?).

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:23 pm

Poodle wrote:
I would imagine that if whatever you can do belongs in that group of things which would normally be described by others as paranormal, then the Randi Foundation would take it into consideration.
If that's the case then good.
Poodle wrote: Why don't you have a go at explaining to us EXACTLY what you think you can do. Are you, for instance, claiming that you can identify someone who is carrying something, has done something, or has been standing on a certain spot? If you were demonstrating your talent for a friend, how would you describe what you were about to do?
If I was demonstrating my "talent" for a friend, I would first mark a line on the ground, I would then ask whoever it was to walk over the line at a normal pace while I stood at a distance. At this stage I would be facing them so that they can see the rods move. I would then ask them to walk over the line again, only this time I would have my back turned. When the rods crossed I would shout stop ! and turn around to see how accurate I had been in determining their position. I am usually spot on, but I am always within three feet, it all depends on the speed they are walking. If they play the game and walk steadily I will be spot on.

I then get them to try for themselves, if they get a basic yes reaction from the rods they are good to go. I have only met one "dowser" that can not do this thing, everyone else can do it just as well as me.

PS, I am presently working on variations of the above, but need more time and experimentation to be confident of the outcomes.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Poodle » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:44 pm

Flobalob wrote:If I was demonstrating my "talent" for a friend, I would first mark a line on the ground, I would then ask whoever it was to walk over the line at a normal pace while I stood at a distance. At this stage I would be facing them so that they can see the rods move. I would then ask them to walk over the line again, only this time I would have my back turned. When the rods crossed I would shout stop ! and turn around to see how accurate I had been in determining their position. I am usually spot on, but I am always within three feet, it all depends on the speed they are walking. If they play the game and walk steadily I will be spot on.

I then get them to try for themselves, if they get a basic yes reaction from the rods they are good to go. I have only met one "dowser" that can not do this thing, everyone else can do it just as well as me.

PS, I am presently working on variations of the above, but need more time and experimentation to be confident of the outcomes.
Well, I can see a problem right away. It's that "normal pace" bit and you watching them do it the first time. Please note that I'm not saying this is what is happening, but it does give you the opportunity to time that normal pace. Can the walker choose when to start walking when you have your back turned, or do you tell them when to start?

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:31 am

Poodle wrote:
Flobalob wrote:If I was demonstrating my "talent" for a friend, I would first mark a line on the ground, I would then ask whoever it was to walk over the line at a normal pace while I stood at a distance. At this stage I would be facing them so that they can see the rods move. I would then ask them to walk over the line again, only this time I would have my back turned. When the rods crossed I would shout stop ! and turn around to see how accurate I had been in determining their position. I am usually spot on, but I am always within three feet, it all depends on the speed they are walking. If they play the game and walk steadily I will be spot on.

I then get them to try for themselves, if they get a basic yes reaction from the rods they are good to go. I have only met one "dowser" that can not do this thing, everyone else can do it just as well as me.

PS, I am presently working on variations of the above, but need more time and experimentation to be confident of the outcomes.
Well, I can see a problem right away. It's that "normal pace" bit and you watching them do it the first time. Please note that I'm not saying this is what is happening, but it does give you the opportunity to time that normal pace. Can the walker choose when to start walking when you have your back turned, or do you tell them when to start?
I think they generally start walking when I ask them to start walking, but they can take whatever route they like within reason.
I mentioned the pace as some people seem to want to march fast when asked to walk over the line. This makes it awkward to judge when to tell them to stop, the rods take the same time to cross no matter how fast the person is moving.

This only seems to work with people for some reason. When I call my dog over the line I get no response at all. This may not be the case when other people are doing the dowsing, ( if dowsing is what this is ) it's something I have yet to experiment with.

I'm presently experimenting when I can get two or more willing helpers. I ask them to cross the line in any order they wish, but I am only dowsing one person. So far so good.

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:18 am

Flobalob wrote:...
I mentioned the pace as some people seem to want to march fast when asked to walk over the line. This makes it awkward to judge when to tell them to stop, the rods take the same time to cross no matter how fast the person is moving.
...
So you are asking them to adjust their pace to match the timing of your rods?!

:roll:
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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Flobalob » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:52 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Flobalob wrote:...
I mentioned the pace as some people seem to want to march fast when asked to walk over the line. This makes it awkward to judge when to tell them to stop, the rods take the same time to cross no matter how fast the person is moving.
...
So you are asking them to adjust their pace to match the timing of your rods?!

:roll:
I ask them to walk at a normal pace so that I can estimate when they are over the line. I could use short rods for fast moving people, and longer rods for slower moving people, or I could just ask them all to walk at a normal pace. I choose the latter. If they are moving very fast I will be within 3' anyway, but it's nice to be spot on. :)

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Re: Ideomotor effect

Post by Canadian Skeptic » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:00 pm

Flobalob wrote:I ask them to walk at a normal pace so that I can estimate when they are over the line.
As Poodle mentioned, what's happening here is that you're mentally estimating the time that they should cross the line, not dowsing. That's why it works with people -- who normally start around the time you say they start, and follow a predictable pace and path once they do -- but not your dog.

Put on headphones and have the person start whenever they like, after your back is turned. Have them start anywhere from within 30 to 90 seconds (at their discretion, not yours), then move at a steady pace. Again, you need to make sure not only that your back is turned (preferably blind folded as well, to prevent seeing their shadow, etc.), but that you also have headphones with sound/music playing, to prevent you from hearing them.

Do that, and I doubt your rods will continue working.